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posted by n1 on Monday April 21 2014, @09:38PM   Printer-friendly
from the think-of-the-children! dept.

My kids aged 10 and 8 years, are slowly getting to know the internet. They are mostly playing online games on friv.com or sending emails to other kids from school. We are limiting their time at the computer to at most 1 hour daily, and we are supervising, checking on them every 10 minutes or so, or using "x11vnc -viewonly -display :0". Also I have modified the "/etc/hosts" to include stuff from a (now defunct) site which contains about 1500 lines that block various unwanted sites where each line looks like "127.0.0.1 www.doubleclick.net". Also I modified "/etc/rsyslog.d/50-default.conf" to include line "*.* @my_pc" so that all the computers report back to me (and I have lwatch running on my administration desktop). But I still feel that this is not enough, and I want your advice about protecting kids from the dangers of internet.

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  • (Score: 5, Informative) by rts008 on Monday April 21 2014, @09:48PM

    by rts008 (3001) on Monday April 21 2014, @09:48PM (#34161)

    I would think that some basic education and ground rules would cut down a lot on what you seem to be asking.

    Education, understanding, and some trust can go a long ways.(just treat them with respect and they will usually try not to disappoint you, at least it worked on me, and both step kids)

    • (Score: 2, Informative) by crutchy on Monday April 21 2014, @10:16PM

      by crutchy (179) on Monday April 21 2014, @10:16PM (#34175) Homepage Journal

      kids will be kids... and boys will be boys

      i can appreciate that trying to convince kids that the internet is full of encyclopedias and cartoons is as frivolous as maintaining the santa claus fairytale, but eventually teenage boys will go looking for pr0n one way or another and no matter what parents do they will find it, but there is some fucked up stuff on the internet that i wouldn't want my kids stumbling on by mistake too.

      the problem with the internet is that it isn't just there waiting for you to click, like shops in a shopping mall... the internet is more akin to walking through a zoo full of starving bears actively trying to bust out of their cages and eat you. little kids and young adolecents do need some level of protection from this until they are able to navigate their own way around the bear cages. till what age is probably something only parents can decide, but i would think an 10 yo would still need some guidance and protection on the internet.

      using linux instead of windows is probably the best protection i can think of, since most of the exploits i've come across personally have had something to do with windows infection, but there are many other attack vectors such as email attachments and even misleading (or interesting) search results not appropriate for children.

      i agree that if they are using the internet, they should be taught about it... including the good, the bad and the ugly.

      • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday April 21 2014, @11:32PM

        Honestly, the best solution would be to sit them down the first time you find them hitting the porn and point them to a site that doesn't contain really freaky shit. They get the porn they were going to get anyway and you get a bit of peace of mind knowing they're not watching chicks get raped by donkeys while licking some dude's prostate.
        --
        My rights don't end where your fear begins.
        • (Score: 4, Funny) by tibman on Tuesday April 22 2014, @12:35AM

          by tibman (134) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday April 22 2014, @12:35AM (#34215)

          Maybe we need a few example links?

          --
          SN won't survive on lurkers alone. Write comments.
          • (Score: 3, Funny) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday April 22 2014, @12:44AM

            by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Tuesday April 22 2014, @12:44AM (#34218) Homepage Journal
            Huge amount of cocks, tits, twats, and assholes here [house.gov]. Enjoy.
            --
            My rights don't end where your fear begins.
            • (Score: 2) by rts008 on Tuesday April 22 2014, @07:56AM

              by rts008 (3001) on Tuesday April 22 2014, @07:56AM (#34278)

              "You're despicable." ;-)

              That was more unsettling than the first time I was tricked into clicking a goatse or tubgirl link, as a matter of fact, that was even worse than being RickRolled!

              Every vice known to man(and a few new ones) is in that link of yours!

              *looks back at webpage* Wait, what? I did not know that was even possible!

              Well, that was uhm...ahhh...sick stuff, utterly disgusting.

              Twisted, man...very twisted...

              Now I have to get out the bottle brush and bleach for my brain scrub...again.

        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Thexalon on Tuesday April 22 2014, @01:42AM

          by Thexalon (636) on Tuesday April 22 2014, @01:42AM (#34224)

          Basically, when kids start looking at porn, that's the time to sit them down and have a serious talk about it. The serious talk more-or-less goes like this:
          "Porn is fantasy, a fiction. The people you're watching are acting. They are pretending to want to have sex at the drop of a hat, are pretending to enjoy it, and are doing things they wouldn't do if they weren't getting paid to do it on film. In real life, the most important things to remember about sex are (1) everyone involved has to want to be involved, (2) you have to make sure that nobody gets pregnant who isn't planning on it, (3) you have to make sure that nobody gets HIV or other serious diseases, and (4) for best results, make sure that you treat others well before, during, and after. If you follow those rules, sex can be a wonderful dimension to your life, if you don't it could cost you everything you have."

          Teenagers will watch porn. Most who see the freaky stuff will react much the same way you do, namely disgust. Of course, some (just like adults) will find the freaky stuff fun. But if they remember all the rules that I rattled off above, they won't get too badly hurt by it all. I'm more worried about a kid having unprotected missionary-position intercourse at age 14 than I am about a kid having a safe and careful BDSM session.

          And of course, all of this will have much less effect if the bonds between adult and child are already strained or broken.

          --
          The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
          • (Score: 2) by Jerry Smith on Tuesday April 22 2014, @07:57AM

            by Jerry Smith (379) on Tuesday April 22 2014, @07:57AM (#34279) Journal

            That's some solid advice. It could be adapted towards a lot of situations. And it works way better imho than the reactive sollution: one's gonna lose that anyway.

            --
            All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.
          • (Score: 2) by metamonkey on Tuesday April 22 2014, @01:32PM

            by metamonkey (3174) on Tuesday April 22 2014, @01:32PM (#34376)

            "Son, when a man, two women, a donkey, three circus midgets, a shaved asian boy and a human toilet love each other very much..."

            --
            Okay 3, 2, 1, let's jam.
      • (Score: 2, Insightful) by LoRdTAW on Tuesday April 22 2014, @02:24AM

        by LoRdTAW (3755) on Tuesday April 22 2014, @02:24AM (#34226) Journal

        the problem with the internet is that it isn't just there waiting for you to click, like shops in a shopping mall... the internet is more akin to walking through a zoo full of starving bears actively trying to bust out of their cages and eat you.

        I would say its more like a gargantuan virtual bazaar complete with dark allies and shady dealers. You have to teach your kids to be smart and avoid those dark corners of the net (including security risks, giving out personal info, etc.) But humans are humans no matter the age and they will eventually give in to curiosity. Its part of growing up and rebelling. It is a parents job to warn kids of such dangers and put them into perspective. Its just like the real world and the same life lessons you teach them about like people, sex, drugs, relationships, school, etc. Telling them the net is out to get this is a bit unfair as it has so much to offer.

        And the best thing to do is put the computer in a living room or other occupied room where they cant sneak around. As they reach puberty and high school age, loosen up a bit and give them their own PC but check up on them (though its harder with tablets and the like nowadays). My mother gave my brother and I a room to put our computers in, the computer room! It was my old bedroom and had no door after we broke it horsing around. So we knew she could pop in at any moment. Many a late night spent in there gaming together, mostly me sucking and my brother pwning big time. Later on I had my own PC in my room toward the end of high school and my mother was confident enough in me to not worry (though she always told me to keep away from porn! yeaaaaa, sure thing mom ;-) She had more to worry about when I would bring my girlfriend up to my room (and there was plenty going on to worry about >;)

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Hairyfeet on Tuesday April 22 2014, @10:17AM

        by Hairyfeet (75) <{bassbeast1968} {at} {gmail.com}> on Tuesday April 22 2014, @10:17AM (#34300) Journal

        Even better answer...don't bother as it will NEVER work. Sure you can block a few known sites but there are literally billions of pages and thousands of new ones daily, he is playing whack a mole and will lose anyway. Hell my wife and I play a little game "how many bing searches before we get tits?" and the answer? About 6.

        This is with just about any random wallpaper you pick on the Bing image search, from planets to guitars, it never fails that no matter what search term you put in it was rule 34ed long before you ever even thought of putting it in a searchbox. Feel free to play it yourself, after the first pick you'll see a blue bar across the top with related searches, simply pick at random or go let to right across the bar and see how many you can get before you get nudity. The longest streak was by the wife as she managed 14 but she was being DAMN careful when it came to the top bar and going out of her way not to pick anything that could in ANY way be even slightly suggestive, teen boys sure as hell aren't gonna do that.

        So when it came to my two boys I did what I thought was the most rational thing to do, I warned them to stay away from internet chats, showed them just how easy it was to trace by IP (because too many have the false impression that if you use a different ASL that you can't be found) and showed them how to keep their browser sandboxed so I wouldn't be cleaning bugs off every week (because game sites seem to have more bugs than any porn site) and I let 'em go. Closest I EVER had to a bit of trouble out of them was once my mother walked in to the oldest boy's room and saw a pair of anime boobs and freaked out, but after talking to him it turned out...it was a really good sci-fi anime that he was well versed on that simply had one of the classic "horndog comic relief" characters that would try to sneak a peek at one of the heroines from time to time as a comic break from the seriousness. I watched a couple with him and while not my cup of tea I could see it was very well written drama (the two episodes I picked at random dealt with when vengeance turns to hatred and whether a hero can do something evil for the greater good and not taint their soul) that wasn't any kind of porn, it just had the Japanese horndog as a minor character.

        Both boys are now in their early 20s and came out fine. The oldest is apparently catnip to females and has to decide which of the three women that are actively pursuing him he wants to get serious with (oh what a horrible dilemma, 3 hotties chasing him LOL) while the younger has struck up a nice friendship/ budding romance with a nice boy his age a couple of counties over (yes he's gay) which I can't see anything wrong with as I found my wife on FB and we are happy as can be. So treat them like intelligent human beings, warn them of the real threats but don't try to babyproof the internet, it just can't be done.

        --
        ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
        • (Score: 2) by metamonkey on Tuesday April 22 2014, @01:34PM

          by metamonkey (3174) on Tuesday April 22 2014, @01:34PM (#34379)

          It sounds like you're doing a good job raising your kids. God bless you and your family.

          --
          Okay 3, 2, 1, let's jam.
          • (Score: 2) by Hairyfeet on Tuesday April 22 2014, @08:59PM

            by Hairyfeet (75) <{bassbeast1968} {at} {gmail.com}> on Tuesday April 22 2014, @08:59PM (#34591) Journal

            Thank you. I found out the fates are not without a sense of irony because I always swore "I will never EVER have any kids!" and then right after the second nephew was born my sister was diagnosed with a terminal illness and rather than face his wife was gonna die her husband became a hardcore junkie and just wandered away. So that left me with 2 boys under the age of two, plop right into my lap. But I never treated them like idiots, never did the "because I say so!" crap I always hated, and I always tried to teach them the HOW as well as the what. Other parents tried to babyproof the world and keep their kids from playing violent games, I taught mine how the data on the drive is transformed into the picture on the screen.

            The moral of the story is if you treat the children as intelligent human beings, explain things rationally instead of just using lame "because I said so!" rules? Things will turn out alright. I didn't worry about them seeing porn becaue i sat them down and explained that one can easily become addicted to porn, just like gambling or drugs, and that once a person becomes addicted they will have problems later in life when it comes to having relationships. Was it a comfortable talk? HELL NO because i had to sit there and expain WHY someone would become addicted and what that addiction would do, but considering both boys are in healthy relationships and are comfortable coming to me with any problem? I think it was worth being uncomfortable for an hour.

            --
            ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
            • (Score: 2) by chromas on Wednesday April 23 2014, @06:01AM

              by chromas (34) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday April 23 2014, @06:01AM (#34729) Journal

              I also hate the "because I said so"—it's like circular logic for somebody too lazy to finish the circle.

              no matter what search term you put in it was rule 34ed long before you ever even thought of putting it in a searchbox.

              You're welcome.

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by middlemen on Monday April 21 2014, @09:50PM

    by middlemen (504) on Monday April 21 2014, @09:50PM (#34163) Homepage

    Use a real proxy server like privoxy or squid or similar open source variants, and "allow" only certain sites and deny every other site. This way you are allowing single sites by reviewing them instead of whack-a-mole blocking.

    If your kids can bypass the proxy server, you need to teach them more sys-admin work as they are intelligent enough and not keep them away from the internet but educate them to use it judiciously. Being intelligent doesn't mean being "smart". So teach them how to be smart and use their intelligence for the right things.

    • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday April 21 2014, @10:07PM

      Wise I think is the word you're looking for. Wisdom is the ability to use what knowledge you have to its fullest potential. Plenty of unintelligent people with wisdom up to their eye teeth and just as many intelligent ones without the sense to come out of the rain.
      --
      My rights don't end where your fear begins.
  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by fliptop on Monday April 21 2014, @09:52PM

    by fliptop (1666) on Monday April 21 2014, @09:52PM (#34165) Journal

    So you're doing all of that and are asking what *more* you should be doing?

    I told my kids (who are now grown) 2 things: 1 - you can do anything you want, and 2 - everything you do has consequences.

    I also never snooped, checked their cell phones, etc. If there's one thing I learned when I was a kid it was that, no matter how many rules parents give, there's always a way around them.

    --
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.
    • (Score: 3, Informative) by Tork on Monday April 21 2014, @11:14PM

      by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 21 2014, @11:14PM (#34198)
      My dad raised me that way. I didn't have any real rules other than "don't do anything illegal". However, BEFORE we had internet access in my house we had had several frank discussions about sex and relationships and so forth. I believe that is the key reason why things turned out alright, not the open-ness part of the internet arrangement.

      So I agree. But ... I have to say I do at least appreciate that he's engaged in supervising his kids usage. I just wish he was saying something like: "When the inevitable happens, we're going to sit down and have a chat about it." It does seem more like he's trying to shelter his kids. I agree with you, I'm not a fan of that mentality.
      --
      🏳️‍🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️‍🌈
      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Angry Jesus on Tuesday April 22 2014, @12:37AM

        by Angry Jesus (182) on Tuesday April 22 2014, @12:37AM (#34216)

        > However, BEFORE we had internet access in my house we had had several frank discussions about sex and
        > relationships and so forth. I believe that is the key reason why things turned out alright, not the
        > open-ness part of the internet arrangement.

        I suspect it was BOTH. Children need autonomy in order to practice being responsible for themselves as an adult. That means the freedom to screw up and learn from their mistakes - just as much as they need parents who are there to help them understand the world as they experience it.

        Trying to protect a child by isolating him from the world is lazy parenting - easier to put up a wall rather than have to talk about what is on the other side of the wall. Unfortunately, the result is to cripple the child's development, making adulthood where there are no walls, much harder.

        • (Score: 2) by VLM on Tuesday April 22 2014, @12:25PM

          by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday April 22 2014, @12:25PM (#34335)

          I'd agree with and extend those remarks such that

          "That means the freedom to screw up and learn from their mistakes"

          Also means the younger they screw up, the easier it is to pick them up, dust them off, have a bit of a talk, and hope they learned something. Little kids just don't get into serious trouble very often, or rephrased, if you think they're hell raisers at age 8, I assure you, you'll be recalibrating during the next decade...

          Kids are always going to learn by getting themselves into a situation where they feel its the end of the world, and its a lot easier on parents (and, in the long run, on the kids) when they're little and end of the world means they got grounded for not doing their grade school homework, than when they're late teens and end of the world means someones dead or some girl's pregnant.

      • (Score: 2) by rts008 on Tuesday April 22 2014, @09:12AM

        by rts008 (3001) on Tuesday April 22 2014, @09:12AM (#34294)

        I was also raised similar, but I was also allowed the freedom to make mistakes and learn from experience.(re:'Angry Jesus')
        When I asked questions, I was answered like I was an adult, and given correct(to the best of my parent's knowledge) info, and the means to research on my own(mostly library-PC's were not popular in the 1960-1970's). Be skeptical, find out for yourself(but do learn from others), question things, those concepts were pounded through my thick skull, along with taking personal responsibility for your actions and choices, and admitting your mistakes to both sharing knowledge, and learning from them(as in: do learn from others), and for goodness sake, don't be afraid to be independent, and think for yourself.

        The 'sex talk' was very short, and mostly about moral and legal aspects of humanreproduction. Afterall, there is not much to explain about sex to a farm boy who grows up around all kinds of animals going at it...and the results.
        I can remember riding out to the pastures (on my mare, who sometimes had a nursing foal alongside) to check for cows 'in heat', and knowing what it meant when I was 8 years old.[1]

        I am also glad to hear that there is supervision, and apparent caring by the parent, but I also cringe at the impression the article gives. I would rebel in a heartbeat(the way I was raised) if this happened to me. Maybe I just dodged the bullet because of the era(no internet) I was raised. I don't think so, though.

        I think we are all on the same page here overall though.

        When I helped raise my step daughter, I used the same tactics that I was raised with, and both the wife and I(and the daughter), are pleased and proud of the results.

        We treated her like she was an individual, educated, intelligent, and trusted.(she was all of those, some thanks to 'home schooling'[heavy on STEM] from Jr. High on, then she went to college)
        We RARELY felt disappointed by her from the time she was 9-10. She got one of my 'old' PC's when I did an upgrade when she was 12. It was put in her room, but on my LAN, and was made aware of all that implied.('Don't draw Sauron's Eye!', or don't cause me trouble, and I won't oppress/spy)

        The only problems were occasional tech support, but mostly keeping up with her messages to check out 'cool stuff I found' links. :-)

        [1] I lost count of the times I got in trouble at schools after I moved to the east coast and heard something about a stork bringing babies, and proceeded to give them all the low down...I learned the definition of 'incorrigible' at an EARLY age! ;-)

    • (Score: 1) by Ethanol-fueled on Monday April 21 2014, @11:31PM

      by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Monday April 21 2014, @11:31PM (#34205) Homepage

      Agreed.

      In my opinion, submitter should only escalate after seeing the kids make a poor choice. And yes, there more definitely are ways around parents' rules, like visiting the friend with the cool parents who allow their kids and friends to have unfettered access to the internet. When I was around 13-ish, one of my friend's parents allowed us access to porn as long as we weren't viewing it in their direct vicinity. It makes sense, after all, because would you rather have your kids sit around reading porn(magazines and VHS tapes, no widespread internet yet), or out cruising the streets getting into real trouble*?

      * false dichotomy for the sake of sensation

      • (Score: 2) by JeanCroix on Tuesday April 22 2014, @01:36PM

        by JeanCroix (573) on Tuesday April 22 2014, @01:36PM (#34380)
        Exactly. You can put up all the filters and safeguards you want on your own system, but your kids are going to have friends. And those friends' parents aren't going to be nearly as tech-minded nor strict as you. And it won't be too long before one of the most annoying of those little friends shoves a tablet in your kid's face and says, "Look what THIS lady can do!"
    • (Score: 2) by egcagrac0 on Tuesday April 22 2014, @03:09AM

      by egcagrac0 (2705) on Tuesday April 22 2014, @03:09AM (#34235)

      1 - you can do anything you want, and 2 - everything you do has consequences.

      This. You can't protect the children forever, and the end goal is to get them so they don't need protection.

      I honestly don't think that read access is a danger - I'm minorly concerned with "write access" - if they're not buying stuff online, not posting nekkid pictures and not trying to meet up with people from chat rooms (or whatever they come up with next), there's a pretty minimal danger, IMO.

      Worry more if they start citing Wikipedia as an authoritative source than if they're looking at pr0n.

      • (Score: 2) by rts008 on Tuesday April 22 2014, @11:12AM

        by rts008 (3001) on Tuesday April 22 2014, @11:12AM (#34308)

        You can't protect the children forever, and the end goal is to get them so they don't need protection.

        As attributed to Ben Franklin, : "An ounce of prevention, is worth a pound of cure.", or some such.

        It is like building a building...you have to start with a rock solid foundation, or all else is wasted effort.

        Or..

        The long awaited car analogy:

        If you don't have a solid frame/chassis, then all else is just racing stripes, decals, and noise.

        Educate them, teach them ethics and morals(religion if you must...your kids), how to think critically, how to 'research', then let/help them learn to fly on their own. They are going to no matter what anyway, so it is best to outfit them to our utmost(as parents) to do so successfully.

        IMHO, too many parents 'plan the future' for their kids, instead of enabling their future. There is a big difference.

        Remember back to when you were young, and the dreams and future you pictured and desired...and then *BLAM!*:
        "Forget about your silly whims, it doesn't fit the plan..."
        (apologies to Rush:2112 Overture)

  • (Score: 2, Interesting) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday April 21 2014, @10:00PM

    Just my $0.02 but keeping them safe from life is not really your obligation. Keeping them alive, healthy, and educated about life is. Leastways you'll end up with far superior adults, which is what you're doing this all for after all. Ten is probably old enough to stumble across boobs and be told 'wait until you're old enough to really enjoy them, then come talk to me,' say eleven or twelve. Eight yo isn't even going to know why he should like them except that he's not allowed to see them.

    If you're dead set on over-protectionism though: adblock plus with some custom rules can weed out most porn ads and collateral damage all the rest which nobody really needs anyway. Noscript to further block annoyances along with catching all flash ads. And tcpdump or your tool of choice running on your machine to capture all http(s) requests on the network. That will give you at least the addresses they're connecting to.

    --
    My rights don't end where your fear begins.
    • (Score: 2, Informative) by moondoctor on Monday April 21 2014, @10:57PM

      by moondoctor (2963) on Monday April 21 2014, @10:57PM (#34191)

      i think that if you are the parent of a ten year old it is absolutely ones responsibility to keep them safe from life until they are capable of handling it on their own.

      i would argue that a ten year old is not equipped to understand the dangers of the internet and OP is being a kind and responsible parent.

      'stumble across boobs' is not how i'd describe discovering goatse, accidentally or otherwise...

      • (Score: 2, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday April 21 2014, @11:27PM

        Oh come on. You would have laughed yourself silly at goatse at 10. I know I would have. It's not until we get the proper hormones and context that seeing a man's pancreas through his butthole becomes something requiring liquor to dull.
        --
        My rights don't end where your fear begins.
  • (Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 21 2014, @10:03PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 21 2014, @10:03PM (#34169)

    Just use APK's hosts file. It's secure even against the NSA.

  • (Score: 5, Interesting) by michealpwalls on Monday April 21 2014, @10:22PM

    by michealpwalls (3920) on Monday April 21 2014, @10:22PM (#34179) Homepage Journal

    Wow you really over-thought this, in my opinion.

    Don't get me wrong, you're not going to hear some fluffy "free-range baby" junk from me, as I actually have kids. 2 boys in fact.

    Ages 5 and 7, my boys have a Google Account. Their browser never clears that session and so, wherever they go, they're logged into their Google Account. You might think "Gee, isn't that the opposite of what you want?" but no think about it. When you create a Google, Bing or Yahoo account and set an age below 13, you are automatically blacklisted from many things, including adult advertisements and comments..

    Yet the kids can still find and consume the massive amounts of educational materials that are available online, including YouTube.

    With the approach you have taken, I wonder if you have missed the forest from the trees... You can blacklist domains until you're blue in the face and still have your child looking at "Booty shake" or even "snuff" videos on YouTube by simply typing the wrong search term.

    My kids use Fedora which runs Chromium. Google is the homepage and as I said above, it preserves their session so as not to log them out. It's extremely simple and so far it has been extremely effective.

    • (Score: 2) by cosurgi on Monday April 21 2014, @10:59PM

      by cosurgi (272) on Monday April 21 2014, @10:59PM (#34192) Journal

      Interesting idea. I didn't mention that in my case it's two daughters, because I wanted this "ask soylent" to be more generic. But it seems that all answers so far focus on boys only.

      --
      #
      #\ @ ? [adom.de] Colonize Mars [kozicki.pl]
      #
      • (Score: 2) by michealpwalls on Monday April 21 2014, @11:27PM

        by michealpwalls (3920) on Monday April 21 2014, @11:27PM (#34203) Homepage Journal

        I can see how my overly-simplistic approach would begin to break down as the children get older.

        Also I forgot to add that while logged into Google/Yahoo/Bing accounts with an age of 13 years or less, the content is filtered automatically ("Safe Search" and such are turned on).

        Of course, when they start to interact with other people online (Someone sends them a link via email/chat), the sort of things you came up with would probably be the only thing that works.

        Kudos to you for being a responsible parent, by the way :)

    • (Score: 2) by VLM on Tuesday April 22 2014, @12:00PM

      by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday April 22 2014, @12:00PM (#34325)

      "the massive amounts of educational materials that are available online, including YouTube."

      Yeah, whatever, that's just this generations version of the 80s "buy a computer for educational software" when we knew darn well as kids that it was for games.

      Mine are a bit older and YouTube is nothing but "blitzwinger plays yet another game" and "minecraft lets play" screencaps. For freaking hours on end.

      Theoretically there are educational videos on YT. Much like you could buy a kid a TV because there are occasionally educational documentaries on PBS. Which won't be watched of course.

      • (Score: 2) by michealpwalls on Tuesday April 22 2014, @06:11PM

        by michealpwalls (3920) on Tuesday April 22 2014, @06:11PM (#34483) Homepage Journal

        hehe it is true that for all the useful videos, there is probably 100s of junk

        As hard to believe as it sounds, my kids genuinely do watch educational videos. Their favorite hands down is "Bill Nye the Science Guy" that they watch on YT (It doesn's seem to be on the Dish anymore...)

        It's not easy, but if you can find the right content that catches and holds their attention, they can find educational things entertaining too.

        • (Score: 2) by VLM on Tuesday April 22 2014, @06:55PM

          by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday April 22 2014, @06:55PM (#34519)

          Mine also occasionally watch Bill. I was concerned that his attempts to be the pinnacle of hip coolness in 1985 would fly right over their heads making it unappealing, but it doesn't slow them down. I find it rather nostalgic.

  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by gallondr00nk on Monday April 21 2014, @10:25PM

    by gallondr00nk (392) on Monday April 21 2014, @10:25PM (#34181)

    Here I run a DNSmasq list that redirects domains on the list to Pixelserv, which serves a 1x1 gif instead of the page. I suppose it's not much different from what you're doing with /etc/hosts, but pixelserv saves on timeouts. It's quite a classy solution in my opinion, and means you don't get ads on any device on the network like phones, consoles etc.

    I run it on a gateway machine, but I got the idea from tutorial on turning a Raspberry Pi into an access point here [adafruit.com].

    If you had a Pi, an old machine or a spare OpenWRT capable router lying around, you could always have an access point that's strictly for the kids with a wider block on it. With their own AP you could also do things like control when they can get online, or set up shorewall with rules blocking service specific ports.

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by TrumpetPower! on Monday April 21 2014, @10:27PM

    by TrumpetPower! (590) <ben@trumpetpower.com> on Monday April 21 2014, @10:27PM (#34182) Homepage

    The simplest answer is to put the computer in the living room or some other high-traffic area (like the kitchen) with absolutely no privacy.

    If your kids are left unsupervised alone at home, don't tell them the password to unlock the computer, and only unlock it during designated computer times.

    If the kids are young enough, don't even let them do anything on the computer unless you're in the room with them. ...and, honestly, a much better solution is to not have a computer (nor TV) in the home at all, but that's a different conversation....

    Cheers,

    b&

    --
    All but God can prove this sentence true.
    • (Score: 1) by Tramii on Monday April 21 2014, @11:04PM

      by Tramii (920) on Monday April 21 2014, @11:04PM (#34195)

      I like the idea of keeping the computer in the living room or other public space. But eventually, the kids are going to end up owning some personal electronics with an internet connection. I figure the best way would be to log EVERYTHING and to be open with your kids. You shouldn't even need to bother with trying to black-list/white-list sites. Just let them know that anything they do can be seen by you. You don't even need to keep that close of an eye on it, just knowing that you COULD find out what they are doing should be enough to keep them away from anything too harmful.

      You could scan your logs every now and then for anything crazy, but unless it's something truly harmful I'd generally let it go. You should be monitoring what your kids are doing, even if just make sure that they aren't doing something incredibly stupid and/or illegal. Obviously, the more draconian you were about it, the more likely your kids will look into setting up encryption, using proxies or just switching to an unmonitored internet connection.

      Being a parent is about preparing children for the "real world". If dad isn't reading your logs, then it's the IT team at work, or your home ISP, or even the NSA. Get them used to the idea that someone is always watching.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 21 2014, @11:19PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 21 2014, @11:19PM (#34199)

        I just wanted to comment that getting them used to someone watching over them, will make them complacent about standing up for their privacy, but then again, it might actually make them look for ways to do what they want and still remain under the radar. That's an interesting vector; hmm...

    • (Score: 2) by cosurgi on Monday April 21 2014, @11:04PM

      by cosurgi (272) on Monday April 21 2014, @11:04PM (#34196) Journal

      We don't have TV at home. I agree with that. This summer I plan to give them a short course in python programming, so I think that having a computer is rather useful :) The older girl already can draw beautiful flowers by writing lines of code in logo (using kturtle app).

      --
      #
      #\ @ ? [adom.de] Colonize Mars [kozicki.pl]
      #
    • (Score: 2) by VLM on Tuesday April 22 2014, @12:03PM

      by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday April 22 2014, @12:03PM (#34327)

      Don't forget to tie the tablet(s) to a desk (aka this room thing isn't going to work)

      And no "I don't own a tablet" because first, I do, and second, the school district gives each kid an ipad. Which observationally has done nothing educationally other than a lot of minecraft P.E. edition playing and youtube watching, but whatever.

  • (Score: 2, Funny) by Tork on Monday April 21 2014, @11:07PM

    by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 21 2014, @11:07PM (#34197)
    You gave them Linux machines to play on? What happened? Couldn't think of a faster way to drive them to look for porn??
    --
    🏳️‍🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️‍🌈
  • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Aiwendil on Monday April 21 2014, @11:29PM

    by Aiwendil (531) on Monday April 21 2014, @11:29PM (#34204) Journal

    (To actually answer how to protect them: Block dns from being routed and set their computers to use a dns you have set up that only resolves whitelisted sites, and do block all form-posting. Draconic but the only way that isn't just a theater)

    What are you trying to protect them from? If it is predators then you will need to block out just about any kind of forum and chat-capabilities - and this would render internet little more interesting than ad-sponsored newspaper.

    If you are trying to protect them from porn or snuff you can at best only delay the exposure - and this only by blocking out lots of useful stuff.

    If you are trying to protect them from being hardened/jaded from everything they might see it will all come down to if they chose to contine to expose themselves to that kind of information/visual data.
    (It is worth to remember that the "common internet" of today is - quite frankly - a boring "disney-esque" version until one intentionally try to go beyond it so most of the things one might want to protect children from (well, excepting draconic EULAs) require an effort to find in order to get more than the occasional exposure)

    All in all the best thing you can do is to just educate them in the risks and make sure they learn to use critical thinking - until they learn this they are also vulnerable "outside of internet".

    And do remember the quote "in our attempt to child-proof the world we have forgotten to world-proof the children" (don't remember who said it)

    To summarize: Teach the kids about the world and its dangers - otherwise they will be unprepared for the dangers when they meet the world [be it online or offline].

    • (Score: 2) by VLM on Tuesday April 22 2014, @12:13PM

      by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday April 22 2014, @12:13PM (#34331)

      "world-proof the children"

      Observationally parents influence on kids continuously decreases as they age, so paradoxically its better to have them stray slightly when they're smaller because they might actually care what you think, than to wait until they're 17.99 years old to have the first discussion about (insert controversial topic here)

      Also observationally they get sneakier over time, their attempts to purchase video games from Amazon behind our backs while below age ten were frankly comical and easily led to educational discussions about money and shopping and responsibility and stuff, whereas by the time they're in high school I can safely assume from my own personal experiences growing up, that if they wanna look at pr0n there will be no way to stop them short of turning the house into a prison, so the trick is to convince them to behave in a civilized manner while they can still be caught.

  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by tibman on Tuesday April 22 2014, @12:33AM

    by tibman (134) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday April 22 2014, @12:33AM (#34213)

    I think a lot of the people here must be a little older than myself. When i was a teenager i had a 28.8kbps US Robotics modem, a second phone line, a 486dx2, and windows 3.11. You better believe i was all over the place. Didn't take long before i discovered Mandrake, Redhat, and then later Gentoo. Took a whole week to download all the RPMs to get Enlightenment functional with that old modem.

    The first time i saw goatse it was old hat. A shock image! ewwww. Shock images had already been going around like crazy because a link's text did not exactly tell you where it was linking to. I saw some terrible images and even some school mates recommended some terrible sites. I was able to decide that i did not enjoy looking at gore/mutilation (quite the opposite!) and actively avoided it. The people who did enjoy visiting those sites really did seem like well adjusted and "normal" people! You'd never guess they were into that stuff. The old internet was very different than the current one. It was so raw and unfiltered. It really let people crawl and poke into every dark corner if they chose to. Is that bad? I'd say not! These days you can connect with people like yourself. You can discuss very niche topics with other people who actually care. So now we get to the heart of it, in my opinion. The fear isn't only that your children will be exposed to "dark" things but that they will like them. That, you cannot protect them from. You can guide them yes but ultimately they will have to make the mental decisions about what is right and wrong. That is the difference between morals and laws. One is something you prescribe to and the other is forced upon you with penalties.

    TL;DR - Maybe set some guidelines and watch them step over them. Don't prevent them from going anywhere but just keep tabs on it. If they are getting into some really bad stuff maybe have some candid conversations with them about it. Be the safety net and not the cage. Good luck!

    --
    SN won't survive on lurkers alone. Write comments.
    • (Score: 2) by cosurgi on Tuesday April 22 2014, @01:21AM

      by cosurgi (272) on Tuesday April 22 2014, @01:21AM (#34222) Journal

      very insightful, thanks! It reminds me also how I spent two days downloading .deb files :)

      --
      #
      #\ @ ? [adom.de] Colonize Mars [kozicki.pl]
      #
  • (Score: 2) by Skarjak on Tuesday April 22 2014, @03:52AM

    by Skarjak (730) on Tuesday April 22 2014, @03:52AM (#34239)

    I'm thinking you might want to install a camera, pointed at the computer. That way you can figure out the exact time they decided to look at something you disapprove of. In fact, scratch that. Just strap this to their head: http://www.amazon.ca/GoPro-CHDHN-302-Hero3-Silver- Edition/dp/B00F3F0EIU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=13981 38424&sr=8-1&keywords=gopro+camera [amazon.ca]. With a live feed to your laptop, you should be able to constantly monitor them, ensuring they never have to see anything bad until they are old enough for the experience to be a traumatic wake up call.

    Let's be honest, how many of us fell on a shock picture at a young age? Which of us were actually scarred? Your kids will be fine... You don't have to monitor everytbing they do and pad everything with foam.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 22 2014, @04:23AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 22 2014, @04:23AM (#34243)

    superglue google glasses on 'em and plug the kids into a CCTV recorder.

  • (Score: 1) by FrogBlast on Tuesday April 22 2014, @05:32AM

    by FrogBlast (21) on Tuesday April 22 2014, @05:32AM (#34257)

    A router I encountered while troubleshooting customer network issues. It seems to VPN everything on your network to Salt Lake City for sterilization with fire. Use at your own risk.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 22 2014, @09:01AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 22 2014, @09:01AM (#34292)

    This is an interesting approach. Hopefully your kids will be able to apply their skills that you forced them to learn to make the internet a place of freedom for all of us. Asshole.

  • (Score: 1) by CoolHand on Tuesday April 22 2014, @11:49AM

    by CoolHand (438) on Tuesday April 22 2014, @11:49AM (#34320) Journal

    Set your modem/router to use OpenDNS dns servers and set up a free account there to block bad stuff from your IP (might also have to do something with dynamic dns to keep it updated - they have methods for that). That's a big start. Most kids don't care to know enough to try to get actual IP addresses for sites they want. But, you could also setup a true proxy server using IPCop or PFsense (or just squid), and filter sites plus disallow external IP addresses.

    --
    Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job-Douglas Adams
  • (Score: 2) by VLM on Tuesday April 22 2014, @12:37PM

    by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday April 22 2014, @12:37PM (#34341)

    To summarize the discussion, I thought it interesting how it began with vague "dangers online" and the comments drifted into about 90%+ "Boys will want to look at pr0n after puberty and its futile to stop it"

    In contrast, I think streaming TV online, or just watching old fashioned TV, is more dangerous to kids than anything else you'll find online. If you raise kids who think interpersonal relationships are best defined by screwed up Disney/Nick tween dramas, or violence/murder is awesome and great fun to watch, or MTV and reality TV are the worlds best source of morality and virtue, then they're going to end up a lot more screwed up overall, than if they happen to glance at a naked person online.

    Oh another stereotypical TV meme that needs to be purged with fire: All it means to be an adult, is violence, certain swear words, and pr0n. And thats it, nothing else. Not responsibility, or wisdom, or anything else, just "kindergarten, new and improved with the F word". That TV meme is pretty lame and needs to be eradicated from our culture with fire and pitchforks.

  • (Score: 1) by mrchew1982 on Tuesday April 22 2014, @05:50PM

    by mrchew1982 (3565) on Tuesday April 22 2014, @05:50PM (#34469)

    If you want to filter there is an awesome firewall package called "untangle". Let's you do antivirus and adblock at the router, and it has some pretty good filter subscriptions that let you block specific topics, like drug use.

    Honestly the biggest problem that I've had is with YouTube, profanity to be specific. But being close enough to hear it and shut it down is the best filter there is.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 22 2014, @07:38PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 22 2014, @07:38PM (#34547)

    Ubuntu's corporate philosophy is to spy on their users. Step 1 in your quest to protect your children: stop using Ubuntu. I suggest Debian stable as it's virtually identical.

  • (Score: 1) by Freeman on Wednesday April 23 2014, @05:01PM

    by Freeman (732) on Wednesday April 23 2014, @05:01PM (#35001) Journal

    In effect you really want something like an Internet Kiosk. You want a whitelist of sites and by default block everything else. I setup a couple of Public Access Computers at the Library I work at. Here is a link to the solution I came up with. http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=8 1701/ [murga-linux.com] I was asked why I didn't use a system-wide firewall or the like. The simple answer, because I didn't. It was by no means the best or even easiest solution, but it worked well enough for what I needed.

    --
    Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"