I wanted to get feedback on how the community feels about our current name vote. There have been some concerns that we've had relatively small percentage (~10 percent) of members register to vote, and wanted to see if there was something more fundamental going on. As it is currently setup, here's how things are
- You had to be registered by April 12th to have been included in the name vote; if you received a ballot for submission, you should have gotten ranking ballot
- We haven't retroactively added in additional users, though it hasn't been clear that there was a hard cutoff
- The submission phase went until the 19th, and the vote for the name will continue until the 27th
- The current system is email only (but we are looking at getting something integrated into the website implemented for future votes)
I want to hear your feedback below from everyone. Based on what we get back, we'll roll improvements into future votes, or if need be, reset the vote and do it again; I know a lot of you are active here or at least more involved, so the relatively low turnout is a warning canary for me. Leave your comments below, and expect another story in a few days to see how we're using your comments.
Related Stories
A Pressing Question: Why Did You Lurk? 279 comments
We've gotten some incredible feedback regards to the moderation system and the karma system, and trust me, its not going into /dev/null; I'll have a writeup done by the weekend. However, I've noticed something today that made me sit back, and think for awhile. Our community is healthy and vibrant, and we're far more cohesive as a group than we ever were on the other site. Furthermore, our users are significantly more active here than the other site. Almost all of us are from the other site, but there's a huge difference between us and them.
I can sum up the difference in four words: We ARE a community.
While many of us decried the other site calling us an audience, I'm not sure I can say I was a part of the Slashdot community. I read articles, and comments, but I hadn't moderated (or even logged in) on the other site for years. This wasn't always true; I'm UID 700139 on the other site (registered sometime in 2003), and I was fairly active until 2009. Then I stopped. I didn't even post on the Audience Responses post. I've talked to others on IRC, and it turns out I'm not alone; a LOT of people who are active here were permanent lurkers on the other site.
I need to understand why to keep us a community, and to prevent us from just becoming a passive audience. If you're going to post on any story, let it be this one, and tell me your story. We need to know.
I can sum up the difference in four words: We ARE a community.
While many of us decried the other site calling us an audience, I'm not sure I can say I was a part of the Slashdot community. I read articles, and comments, but I hadn't moderated (or even logged in) on the other site for years. This wasn't always true; I'm UID 700139 on the other site (registered sometime in 2003), and I was fairly active until 2009. Then I stopped. I didn't even post on the Audience Responses post. I've talked to others on IRC, and it turns out I'm not alone; a LOT of people who are active here were permanent lurkers on the other site.
I need to understand why to keep us a community, and to prevent us from just becoming a passive audience. If you're going to post on any story, let it be this one, and tell me your story. We need to know.
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(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 23 2014, @10:02PM
that most people think the name is fine?
(Score: 2, Informative) by Snow on Wednesday April 23 2014, @10:07PM
I didn't know that it was time to vote. The email ended up in the spam folder. Looking at it now... IMO, SoylentNews is the best name by a pretty good margin, although maybe I'm just used to it now.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Horse With Stripes on Wednesday April 23 2014, @10:40PM
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Hairyfeet on Wednesday April 23 2014, @11:34PM
I voted but I voted to keep the name as i think its the right amount of geek snark and a statement of what we were getting away from with Slashdot (being treated like a product) so I think its a REALLY good name. Maybe many feel as i do and just see no point in fixing what ain't broke?
ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Wednesday April 23 2014, @11:56PM
^this.
Just drop it, in my opinion. I like it, it's got a good beat and it's goes good while i read by bicycle-powered light... I give it a 10 (or a 9, if that is the highest, but mine goes 11). The ONLY change i'd make is to call it soylent-green, or soylentgreen or something.
drop the vote and keep on truckin'! :)
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 1) by Jeremiah Cornelius on Thursday April 24 2014, @12:17AM
Joined 14th, I was holding out.
Never got a ballot.
I think the site should be named "Richard Harris". It's a good name, and no one is using it, anymore.
You're betting on the pantomime horse...
(Score: 2) by moondrake on Thursday April 24 2014, @08:36AM
Too late. You cannot drop it now. Either call a vote and vote or do not call vote. Dropping the vote at this moment makes the team seem incompetent and frustrates a percentage of users that DID want to vote on it.
If you are happy with the same, you should vote to keep it. If you did not, do not bitch when it gets changed.
What may be done by the staff is to call another round of voting (including new registration) for the people that somehow missed the name.
(Score: 1) by Iskender on Thursday April 24 2014, @01:33AM
I'll be sad if it turns out to be the winner. On one hand, we have some good, nerdy suggestions.
On the other we have a reference to a cheesy 70s movie and its totally done-to-death meme. The message of the site's current name and slogan is that the news provided here are made from the mutilated, ground-down and processed corpses of the users - for me it doesn't work even as a comment on Slashdot's policies of late. The movie is not even very well regarded in the scifi fandom, and its meme is really mainstream. The current name doesn't describe our community at all.
If the current name wins in the end, it will be all due to inertia, and the curse of temporary names.
(Disclaimer: the "Home" scene in Soylent Green was really good. It conveyed the feeling of loss very well. But the site's name is from the sucky last scene, not to mention I don't think profound loss is what I want to think of on a news site)
(Score: 2) by Hairyfeet on Friday April 25 2014, @08:50PM
I didn't see any of the others that weren't frankly forgettable and shouldn't we try to remember WHY we moved away from /. the whole being treated as a commodity with no say in the matter? Soylent reminds those of us old guys that started that we were getting away from being treated as product while letting newbs think its just a classic geek sci-fi reference. Works for me.
ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 24 2014, @03:54AM
I'm the person who came up with the name so I'm glad you think it's a really good name. I hope we keep it.
(Score: 1) by Anonymous Couuard on Thursday April 24 2014, @02:28AM
Mine ended up in the spam folder as well.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday April 23 2014, @10:08PM
AC is probably correct. Even if we were a vocal minority about Beta, not everyone has an opinion or an opinion that goes against what we already have on a name.
Also, people are lazy about voting for anything, no matter how important.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Ethanol-fueled on Wednesday April 23 2014, @10:41PM
Thirded, Soylent news is just a bit "inaccessible" to the average Joe but good enough for Slashdot refugees.
I for one didn't vote for two reasons: the first being that I didn't have a better idea (especially one that met the criteria) and the second being that it would be jarring to some who were just starting to get settled in. We don't need anymore jarring events after the Barrabas stuff. But that's just, like, my opinion, man.
I don't think anything should be done. Maybe include a small "Why Soylent news?" link near the logo which explains the name to the baby or common plebe and then wittily points them to the mission statement and constitution and all that shit.
That being said, I'll stick around here, no matter the name, until I die or get banned. Or until the admins get bought out by Facebook and force SN Beta on us all.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday April 23 2014, @11:03PM
Dude, don't even kid.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by xlefay on Wednesday April 23 2014, @10:19PM
I think it would have been a close one, the biggest obstacle however is e-mail. Some people, don't want their e-mails to be put in yet another database, or, having to submit/vote (on) names via e-mail.
Besides that, I'm fairly sure there are a lot of people that skimmed (read: didn't read) the instructions and instead gave 1 'point' to which name they liked the most (which means, the one they dislike the most), etc..
(Score: 3, Insightful) by githaron on Wednesday April 23 2014, @11:52PM
I almost did this. I read the directions three times because that point was a little confusing. It was kind of misleading calling the points "ranks". When I think of ranking something, I would normally think the best rank was 1. Also, the reason I didn't vote earlier was because I didn't see the email.
(Score: 2) by Daniel Dvorkin on Thursday April 24 2014, @02:07AM
Yep. All of the above. Confusing instructions, invisible e-mail, etc. The voting process is terrible, and any results from it should be taken with a grain of salt.
Pipedot [pipedot.org]:Soylent [soylentnews.org]::BSD:Linux
(Score: 2) by clone141166 on Thursday April 24 2014, @06:35AM
O M F G. I just read the vote email again and yes it says:
"A higher number means you like this choice better."
WTF guys? Every existing voting system I have ever used uses 1 as highest preference... why would you reverse it? :(
I like that you hid this massively significant detail as 1 sentence in amongst a gigantic wall of text so that this clearly *abnormal* and *unintuitive* requirement wasn't in any way easily visible or concisely pointed out. *sigh*
Just keep SoylentNews, for all its flaws it's just as good as anything else suggested. Changing names now will just add confusion for the sake of what... proving that we can generate clever names and are therefore smarter than everyone else?
Thank you for trying though (seriously thank you), but definitely a warning canary! I guess at least this vote is on something fairly trivial that doesn't matter if things go wrong. Biggest piece of advice: Concisely repeat the exact voting process in dot-point form at the end of the email so there is absolutely ZERO confusion - perhaps with an example vote shown?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 24 2014, @09:28AM
> Every existing voting system I have ever used uses 1 as highest preference...
You obviously didn't spend much time on HotOrNot :-)
(Score: 2) by Open4D on Thursday April 24 2014, @03:36PM
If you didn't absorb this before voting, don't worry. You can change your vote [soylentnews.org].
(Score: 2) by clone141166 on Thursday April 24 2014, @05:30PM
Thanks. It's kind of funny that there is yet another weird/hidden feature in the voting process that lets you recast your ballot.
The SoylentNews voting machine has so many features I think somewhere in there it probably doubles as a microwave oven.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 25 2014, @01:03AM
learn to read you fucktard
(Score: 4, Interesting) by frojack on Wednesday April 23 2014, @10:23PM
Still, it would be nice to have an alternate domain name registered and ready to go should the copyright holders of Soylent Green come calling. (Turner Entertainment Co. and Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer Inc.), or the estate of Harry Harrison who coined the word in his book Make Room, Make Room
Soylent is used in a bunch of other instances, so this seems unlikely.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 1) by Ethanol-fueled on Wednesday April 23 2014, @11:26PM
Does this fall under Fair Use? Maybe as a parody?
(too pressed for time to do any research today, hopefully somebody can answer?)
(Score: 5, Interesting) by mrclisdue on Wednesday April 23 2014, @10:36PM
It's anecdotal, with a sample size of just me, but imnsho, we don't really give a shit about the name (well, not a whole lot anyhow) - or perhaps the seeming complexity and meticulousness of the process contributed to a c'est la vie, laissez-faire complacency about it all.
Bacon News, SN, hell even slashdot2, it's ultimately "about the comments", that's what brought us here, what keeps us here, and ultimately will determine whether or not we stay , regardless as to how much or how little we contribute.
cheers,
(Score: 0) by lajos on Wednesday April 23 2014, @10:40PM
no, the "soylent news" name sucks.
(Score: 2) by Angry Jesus on Thursday April 24 2014, @12:04AM
> that most people think the name is fine?
That and the process is waaaay too complicated.
Speaking for myself, I can't be arsed to do all that crap with email for something that is essentially a glorified poll. If it was a poll over on the right-hand side of the front page, I'd participate. Otherwise, there is just too much inertia to bother.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 24 2014, @01:22AM
This right here. I read about the process and I was like screw that.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 24 2014, @12:18AM
Well I guess since we're having a vote we'll find out soon.
(Score: 2) by moondrake on Thursday April 24 2014, @08:38AM
That is the most stupid argument about voting I ever heard. And sadly it got modded up.
So the low voting turnout in many western countries is that people think everything is fine? It is far more common to hear people complain and say they do not vote because it does not matter anyway.
If you think the name is fine, you should vote to keep it. No right to complain if you did not.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 23 2014, @10:05PM
The process is insanely fussy, and everyone knows that "Soylent News" will win (even though it's a terrible name for this site). What did you THINK was going to happen?
People don't bother to vote so much when they know what the outcome will be.
In soviet Russia, votes rig YOU.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 23 2014, @11:11PM
I can assure you that this is entirely due to incompetence and not the desire to remain with this awful name.
(Score: 1) by KritonK on Thursday April 24 2014, @09:07AM
I'm not sure it's a foregone conclusion. E.g., although I did vote for "soylentnew.com", it was my third preference. My second preference was my own suggestion (impartiality? what's that?) and my first preference was the one name I thought stood out even before I read the entire list.
I'm sure that soylentnews.com will be one of the top ten names, but it is quite possible that it is not going to be the top one.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by frojack on Wednesday April 23 2014, @10:11PM
The system was remarkably feedback free. No clue if it was received or not.
Definitely think a radio-button OR Ranking vote page in the user profile will be better.
You could let users vote and change their mind right up to the cutoff time.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by edIII on Wednesday April 23 2014, @10:32PM
It was also a sincere pain in the ass.
One super long list of domain names, and many were quite frankly complete crap. It looked a domain squatter/speculator's list. It was quite long. You guys said yourself you have complete veto rights, which kind of dilutes our vote quite a bit doesn't it? It's clear that there is a "board" for this new community based news site that has more influence and actually maintains the site. Perfectly fine with me, but that does mean you could have pared down a lot more of the ridiculous sites.
li694-22.com?
nerdgloss.com?
pipebeard.com?
I'm not disrespecting the contributors, but those were noticeably less preferable to the average person when compared against the rest of the list. The list could have been reduced by half easily by removing those.
While we are very technical here, a numbering system with 9 as the highest instead of 1 as the best was counter intuitive. That's a terrible system as it is entirely possible you may want to change a value from 8 to 7.5 because it is better than the existing 7 and not as good as the 8. You don't want them equal. It's also the worst system to use when you have a high number of selections, and can't easily see your previous ones. I'm not sure you got the best data you could get.
As silly as it sounds, text based is a little hard for me to read. HTML is actually easier for me to read at this point. Consider having both text/HTML content in the email.
So it was difficult to read and difficult to use. I went all the way through it, but I'm not surprised the majority of the recipients did not.
I know coding efforts may be tight on resources, but you couldn't implement this as a form on the site tied to our identity as suggested by Frojack? It would be a lot more user friendly. Processing inbound email and piping it to another process actually seemed harder to me as the input wasn't strongly structured and errors would be present. A form with radio boxes could allow the selections, and a subsequent form could have columns of radio boxes representing 1-9 similar to satisfaction surveys.
Easier to use and I'm willing to bet you would get better data.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Horse With Stripes on Wednesday April 23 2014, @10:45PM
The li694-22.com comes from the internal name of the Linode server we were running on (li694-22.members.linode.com).
(Score: 2) by xlefay on Wednesday April 23 2014, @10:48PM
Internally, we still use the 'li694-22' name. ;-)
(Score: 3, Insightful) by pe1rxq on Wednesday April 23 2014, @11:39PM
Nice for an internal name, but you really thought it would be a good external name for the site?
I was not in time to vote, but I am guessing 127.0.0.1 was also on the list?
(Score: 2) by xlefay on Thursday April 24 2014, @08:42AM
Eh, no, I don't. I haven't even submitted or voted any names..
Personally, I've read the instructions and all, but I really can't be bothered to go through these hoops.
(Score: 2) by Open4D on Thursday April 24 2014, @03:41PM
In case it's of use, I've created a journal entry called "Site name suggestion manifestos" [soylentnews.org] and added this information.
(Score: 2) by umafuckitt on Wednesday April 23 2014, @10:54PM
Huh? 9 was the highest? I thought 1 was, and voted in that manner.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by edIII on Wednesday April 23 2014, @11:08PM
A little bit hard to understand, even after the 10th reading.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 23 2014, @11:15PM
How dare you be critical of such GENIUS
(Score: 2) by umafuckitt on Wednesday April 23 2014, @11:28PM
I didn't parse the "higher number" thing at all. Awesome, now my choices are inverted. What a mess.
(Score: 3, Funny) by frojack on Thursday April 24 2014, @01:03AM
In that case, your use name is quite apt. ;-)
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 2, Funny) by ramloss on Thursday April 24 2014, @02:41AM
Are you, by any chance from Florida?
(Score: 2) by umafuckitt on Thursday April 24 2014, @02:43AM
Who, me? No. Not from Florida.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 25 2014, @01:08AM
we should change your name to hangingChad
(Score: 2) by moondrake on Thursday April 24 2014, @08:59AM
See http://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?sid=1177&cid=35 354 [soylentnews.org]
just vote again
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Wednesday April 23 2014, @11:30PM
I only voted for the one name, soylent news, and put a 9 in the spot....
if i'd put a one in that spot, would they have thought that I thought that that was the worst name?
I'm thinking that they're thinking that they would have thought that i'd thought that that
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 2) by edIII on Wednesday April 23 2014, @11:33PM
If you see any of my IQ points on the ground will you tell them to come home please?
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Doctor on Wednesday April 23 2014, @11:32PM
Crap. I did the same thing.
I don't know what all the technical issues on doing the vote were, but I don't know why you could not use registered users on some sort of poll. The email format was definitely clunky and the list was really long with a *lot* of lame names. (And no, I'm not real fond of Soylent News as is basically just a non-sequitur.)
"Anybody remotely interesting is mad in some way." - The Doctor
(Score: 2) by moondrake on Thursday April 24 2014, @08:53AM
see: http://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?sid=1177&cid=35 354 [soylentnews.org]
you can cast your vote again
(Score: 3, Insightful) by randmcnatt on Wednesday April 23 2014, @11:45PM
Then, a looong way down the page
A bit confusing.
The Wright brothers were not the first to fly: they were the first to land.
(Score: 2) by mojo chan on Thursday April 24 2014, @07:33AM
So if your second choice was given an '8', does that carry more weight than if you gave it a '5'?
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
(Score: 1) by Iskender on Thursday April 24 2014, @01:21AM
I voted for one of the entries you mentioned. The other two are not very good, in my opinion.
We're having a vote because we don't all have the same opinion. I don't think you're disrespecting the people who made those suggestions. But you might just be disrespecting the vote. You can't determine what "the average person" thinks before we've voted.
The fact that you're dissatisfied with some of the options means democracy is much more likely to be at work.
(Score: 2) by edIII on Thursday April 24 2014, @03:08AM
No, I'm not trying to be disrespectful at all.
I just think the list was way too long and if they have an overriding vote anyways... why not just make the list shorter? The staff should be providing us with a list that is acceptable to all the people making code contributions at the moment. I hardly think that was the whole list.
If it's an absolute requirement that every possible value be present than a different system is required that can deal with a higher number of possible selections and values.
This was far from the ideal way to do it.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by black6host on Thursday April 24 2014, @03:47AM
Actually I fail to see the need for a vote at all. I don't come to this site because of the name. I come because of what the site is, and with hope for what it can become.
That being said, just pick a name that is easy to remember and somewhat descriptive. No need to be cute. Get rid of all the angst and uncertainty, assign the site its permanent name and let's move forward doing what's really important (submitting, commenting, reading and learning.)
Not to mention just look at how successful Facebook has become. And it has quite a stupid name, IMO :) Also, I don't think I've ever heard anyone say: Hey, check out this cool site, the name alone makes spending your time there quite worthwhile...
Honestly I think we got all caught up in the BS of Dice's attitude and had a slight knee jerk reaction by trying to be all inclusive regarding naming the site. Let's keep the community aspect rocking and rolling and never forget how we ended up here. At the same time, let's not bog ourselves down, either.
I'm sure the powers that be here can come up with something decent and then we all can move on to more important stuff.
(Score: 2) by egcagrac0 on Thursday April 24 2014, @08:22AM
This is the primary election. We're currently voting on which candidates will be in the general election later.
The list WILL get shorter, probably to about 10 possibilities. Then, there will be a final vote.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 24 2014, @01:26AM
text based is a little hard for me to read. HTML is actually easier for me to read at this point.
I sounds like you are talking about *fonts*.
Have you considered using something other than Courier [google.com] as your monospaced font?
-- gewg_
(Score: 2) by tibman on Thursday April 24 2014, @01:53AM
I agree that it was more pain than needed. Just a series of checkboxes somewhere would be perfect : ) However! I enjoyed the list. Some just made me laugh out loud. I won't list them because at least one is still for sale.
SN won't survive on lurkers alone. Write comments.
(Score: 1) by watusimoto on Thursday April 24 2014, @09:36AM
Go pipebeard!!!
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Thursday April 24 2014, @03:02AM
I had the same thoughts... "This overly-long list could have been pruned of the obvious" and "WTF? Higher means better? Usually #1 is one's FIRST choice!"
To deal with the "Crap, I voted wrong, I thought 1 meant #1" issues (which from the comments here were common enough -- I read the thing 3 or 4 times before I was sure I got it) -- just let people vote again, and have the later ballot overwrite the earlier one (with the voterID number, that should be easy enough -- obviously you have dupe checking in place already, so just add timestamp checking to know which ballot to use). That way it's still one ballot per voter, but no vote is borked by misunderstanding the instructions.
Email really is not suited for working with long lists. *sigh*
[I did read the entire list, just in case. And gave SoylentNews a 9 and didn't vote for anything else. There were one or two others I kinda liked, but not as well as SN.]
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 2) by mrcoolbp on Thursday April 24 2014, @03:12PM
http://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?sid=1177&cid=35 354 [soylentnews.org]
(Score:1^½, Radical)
(Score: 2) by bradley13 on Thursday April 24 2014, @06:37AM
Apparently I am reading-challenged. I thought the process was fine. A web-form would have been easier, but it's early days...
Then I read above that "9" was the number to use for the best name, and "1" for the least-preferred? Perhaps I am reading challenged, but I used "1" for my first choice and "9" for my ninth choice. I expect many, many other people did as well.
Hmmm...
Everyone is somebody else's weirdo.
(Score: 2) by mrcoolbp on Thursday April 24 2014, @03:12PM
http://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?sid=1177&cid=35 354 [soylentnews.org]
(Score:1^½, Radical)
(Score: 2) by Open4D on Thursday April 24 2014, @03:17PM
I think the contents of comment 35354 should be paraphrased and added to the "Name Voting News" slashbox thingy that I see on the left of my screen.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Sir Finkus on Wednesday April 23 2014, @10:12PM
The system set up for voting is ridiculous, which is part of the problem I think. Email is fine for name submission, but the actual voting should probably just be done on the site. I'm not a web developer, but it seems like it'd be pretty easy to just set up a poll that only displays for those with voting enabled. I'd argue that it'd be easier than parsing text from an email that needs to negotiate spam filters.
I appreciate that the admins have been working hard bringing the site up and modernizing the codebase, but I think they're overthinking the voting process.
If I'm wrong, I'd love to hear it. Maybe I'm missing something.
Join our Folding@Home team! [stanford.edu]
(Score: 2) by xlefay on Wednesday April 23 2014, @10:17PM
It's no secret I'm not fond of the voting process as is. You're spot on, although, if I had it my way, the name submission would have gone via a web form too, it's just so much easier and people can add/retract domains until the actual vote would have started without intervention from our side.
Creating a small poll application, independent of Slash (hey.. we've got an independent e-mail vote, so why not?) is extremely simple but everyone who could have done it was busy with other things, or they weren't on time (as in, it was already decided), so that was that.
So no, you're not missing anything.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 23 2014, @10:23PM
And not everyone willing to vote is willing to share a functional e-mail address. It seems like a ridiculous exercise in geek ivory towerism the way this process was designed.
Almost as if it were designed to fail, designed to turn away potential voters. "Jump through Hoop A, then Hoop B, and do it by this date, and use this block of code in your e-mail message, and get zero confirmation, and we don't trust you so we're basing it all on as arcane a theory and practice as possible. And we like the name we've got."
But we got ridiculed for suggesting that a week or two ago.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by frojack on Wednesday April 23 2014, @10:45PM
By the same token, I see no possible way to accept votes from a random collection of ACs.
Since anyone post as AC without logging in, its just ripe for ballot box stuffing. I have this picture in my mind of Dice employees up all night furiously voting in some Suit-bate name.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 2) by Sir Finkus on Wednesday April 23 2014, @10:55PM
Who says you can't limit votes to registered users, or only users with higher karma, or that have joined after a certain cut off date?
Join our Folding@Home team! [stanford.edu]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 25 2014, @02:18PM
What are you talking about? Who said anything about letting ACs vote? As an AC I wouldn't mind, but I certainly understand trying to avoid ballot stuffing by at least requiring a log in... WHICH IS WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT. LOGGING IN TO THIS WEB SITE AND CASTING A SIMPLE VOTE.
The design-by-committee failed SPECTACULARLY here.
(Sorry for the caps.)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 24 2014, @05:32AM
I second this. The voting process is strangely complicated and archaic for a site catering to tech savvy readers. Additionally, it's ironic that what is theoretically an exercise in community building and participation is so siloed and non-collaborative. The approach has a late 90's Internet feel instead of modern, inviting and intuitive.
I signed up for the vote but did not exercise it once the initial email arrived due to eyes glazing over from boredom while reading all the rules and procedures. The current name is neither good nor bad enough to rouse me onto exerting effort.
At least it's easy to remember.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 23 2014, @10:23PM
I don't want to vote by email.
(Score: 1) by Theophrastus on Wednesday April 23 2014, @10:52PM
I didn't want to vote by email either. But at long last i relented. and it bounced ("User Unknown"). somehow i blame myself. (see also: "i got a rock")
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 24 2014, @09:19AM
amen. too much hassle.
(Score: 2) by Covalent on Wednesday April 23 2014, @10:23PM
Despite attempting to do so, twice.
But I'd have voted for SoylentNews anyway, so I'm happy to hear it's likely to be the winner.
You can't rationally argue somebody out of a position they didn't rationally get into.
(Score: 2) by Ken_g6 on Wednesday April 23 2014, @10:30PM
This. All of this, except I never attempted to vote until this point. I did somehow get subscribed to a daily newsletter of stories, but I haven't gotten a ballot.
(Score: 1) by iroll on Wednesday April 23 2014, @11:24PM
Same. I received the nominations ballot but not the voting one... and I would have voted for SoylentNews.
(Score: 1) by uiginn on Wednesday April 23 2014, @10:43PM
Mod this thread up. I didn't get one either.
(Score: 2) by Marand on Wednesday April 23 2014, @11:05PM
I haven't gotten one either. I also never got a request for name submissions (which is fine, I didn't have a suggestion). Not even anything in spam folders.
So, either there's something wrong with the system (or my email address), or there's some extra caveat to getting the mail that's been neglected to be mentioned.
I don't much care what the site name is, honestly, so I guess it doesn't matter too much, though I do think the current one is kind of crap and would have liked to at least see the alternatives.
(Score: 1) by gitano on Thursday April 24 2014, @01:59PM
I am in exact same situation, only emails i get are the daily newsletters. But do not mind the name at all, i come there to read the comments. Not wanted to even ask why was not getting those emails, maybe i am outside US or something wrong whit my hotmail account, they are not in spam folder either.
(Score: 1) by joekiser on Thursday April 24 2014, @12:57AM
Same here. Did not receive an email from SoylentNews. Maybe its because I unsubscribed from the daily newsletter?
Debt is the currency of slaves.
(Score: 1) by bill_mcgonigle on Thursday April 24 2014, @02:19AM
No, I got the newsletter and not the ballot.
Admins, if you give me a timestamp for when the mail was sent to me, I'll check my logs for you.
Unless there was some opt-in I never heard about...
(Score: 2) by lhsi on Thursday April 24 2014, @07:25AM
In the preferences section there is a "willing to vote" checkbox that has to be checked in order to take part. It was mentioned in one of the earlier stories about the vote, but I seem to recall that it was a lengthy post.
(Score: 2) by mth on Thursday April 24 2014, @09:53AM
I didn't know about that checkbox, so that explains why I didn't get a ballot. The checkbox is in a weird place: I'd expect it under Messages, not under Homepage. I never read the home page -- I use RSS instead -- so I never looked at the home page preferences.
(Score: 1) by joekiser on Tuesday April 29 2014, @01:47AM
Well I *did* select the checkbox, and it never arrived. I know how to check my spam folder.
The whole name change vote is fucking stupid. It's about to turn me off from this site as well.
Debt is the currency of slaves.
(Score: 2) by tibman on Thursday April 24 2014, @01:19PM
The opt-in window was pretty small too, only a few days i think.
SN won't survive on lurkers alone. Write comments.
(Score: 2) by melikamp on Thursday April 24 2014, @12:02PM
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Rataerix on Wednesday April 23 2014, @10:24PM
I thought the voting system was fairly straight forward. I was surprised that there were so many options, I think It should have been narrowed down more before put to a general vote
(Score: 1) by NaN on Thursday April 24 2014, @10:50AM
This. The list was too long and wading through the utter crap to find and rank 9 names is just too much work. There aren't enough hours in the day as it is and I don't care enough about the name of some news site to put in that kind of effort. Build an online form with no more than a dozen options, and I'll gladly fill it out.
(Score: 2) by Adrian Harvey on Wednesday April 23 2014, @10:25PM
There's a lot of choice, so I need some time to work through the choices... And I don't really mind that much. So long as it's not something really dumb I'll get used to it in time....
Also, it's kind of lucky that audio guy stuffed up the first email, as it got spam binned (on gmail) but I got his errata, so I knew it was happening and could get it back.
I'm a bit worried about the plain text email bit though - I'm traveling and my net access is entirely via iPad. Anyone know of an email client for iPad that can do what's required? This is way too long and fiddly for telnet to port 25 to be a good work around. I may just submit from the iPad email client and hope that the email is still parseable - does the voting system tell you if your attempt to vote failed?
(Score: 2) by Random2 on Wednesday April 23 2014, @10:28PM
Is really the only reason I haven't voted. It got pushed onto the 'low priority' list and hasn't really found a way back up, especially with the 60-70 hour weeks...
If only I registered 3 users earlier....
(Score: 1) by nwf on Thursday April 24 2014, @01:52AM
I registered to vote, but I can't find any email mentioning how to vote. I get the daily news summaries, but nothing on the vote. Checked my spam folder, nothing. Perhaps that's why people aren't voting.
(Score: 2) by AudioGuy on Friday April 25 2014, @03:43AM
Bounces
http://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?sid=1177&cid=30 472 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 4, Interesting) by MrGuy on Wednesday April 23 2014, @10:35PM
I thought it was reasonably easy to do. I did have to dig the e-mail out of my spam folder first.
Some thoughts...
* There were a lot of choices to read through. I'll be honest, not sure I read them all (just skimmed some). But I don't know I have a better idea on how to reduce the list. Seems like there were a lot of suggestions, which is nice.
* The "force rank 9 choices" was a lot to ask. Maybe just top 3? I stopped after (I think) 5, because I'd already voted for the names I actually liked.
* A "thanks - we've received your vote!" e-mail confirm would have been nice.
* I do think the "pre-registration" was a little difficult, but I respect your decision NOT to troll through everyone's registration e-mail unnecessarily.
* I think the polls are open a little too long, to be honest. Giving me a week makes me risk NOT filling out/returning as soon as I get it, which makes it more likely I won't respond.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by jmoschner on Thursday April 24 2014, @02:59AM
I suggested a name and voted. I assume successful, since my suggestion was on the vote page and the vote email appeared to be sent. Having said that, the instructions and process as a whole were not clear. It really felt like an overly engineered solution that didn't really think about the end user.
The biggest problems were ones of unneeded complexity and and most of all poor communication.
As many have pointed out, the whole process was far more complex than it really needed to be. As a user/community member I want a simple easy way to give my suggestion or vote. I don't want to wade through a mini-manual or a several emails just to do something as simple as suggest a name and cast a vote.
The overly engineered voting system was made worse by the instructions that were not written in a clear concise user friendly way. One thing to keep in mind is that not everyone here speaks English as a first (or in some cases not even as a third) language. Cumbersome wording and very "tech minded" writing can make it very difficult or even impossible for some (not all) to follow the instructions.
Poor communication is also really an overall site issue. For the most part communication isn't as clear as it could be. I'm guessing the site doesn't have marketing people or public relations experts on staff. The hierarchy of information beyond the main stories is rather lackluster and not always intuitive. For example the FAQ on the site isn't about soylent news or the community or any of that, it is a slashcode faq. As a user that doesn't help me if I am trying to figure out something such as how to format a post or how to contact a site admin if I have a problem. Or that less space is devoted to "Site News" than to recent journal entries.
But for now this is all a learning experience for all of us as we are all learning what does and doesn't work. I appreciate that those behind the curtain are trying and are reaching out for feedback. The one thing I would say is the most important is to learn to look at the site as not just an admin, but to really look at things from the perspective of an ordinary community member.
(Score: 1) by KritonK on Thursday April 24 2014, @09:15AM
I found voting rather easy. I just read through the list once, writing down any name I thought stood out. This way, I ended up with a short list of only 8 names. I ranked those and was done. There was no need to rank all 100+ names in the list.
(Score: 1) by shortscreen on Wednesday April 23 2014, @10:35PM
Remembering my account password is enough of a burden. A multi-step process to vote on a new name? I think you guys can handle this without my help.
(Score: 1) by kwerle on Wednesday April 23 2014, @10:38PM
Given the lack of focus for the site, maybe something like 'whatever.org'. 'anotherrandomnewssite.org'. Whatever.
(Score: 1) by lajos on Wednesday April 23 2014, @10:43PM
how would one vote? there's no poll, not even a banner for it on the front page.
(Score: 3, Informative) by iroll on Wednesday April 23 2014, @11:28PM
What are you talking about? There's a banner on EVERY page (Site News, just to the left of the box you filled in to post this comment).
Not only that, but a hundred comments previous to yours tell you how they voted (or were unable to vote).
(Score: 1) by cockroach on Wednesday April 23 2014, @11:34PM
I hadn't noticed the voting thing either. I don't see any banners about voting, all I see is a tiny little box on the bottom left side of my screen below various other similar boxes. Not exactly obvious.
(Score: 1) by lajos on Friday April 25 2014, @09:03PM
well, apparently that's a crappy place to put it. nobody ever looks at those boxes, especially on mobil where the first thing that happens is the page gets zoomed to hide all but the articles.
how about a big ass banner on the top of the page? if this would've been important, it would've been handled in a way that all visitors would've seen it.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Kilo110 on Wednesday April 23 2014, @10:43PM
If only there was a website we all visited that could be modified to have some sort of poll.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by umafuckitt on Wednesday April 23 2014, @10:52PM
My main gripe with the whole process is that it took too long to get to the name to a vote. SoylentNews isn't an accessible name. I'm a geek, but I haven't watched the movie and Soylent just makes me think of this [soylent.me]. We need a better name, but leaving the vote so late increases the chance that the existing name will stick. If so, it won't stick because it's a good name but because people are just used to it.
The other problem I have is that the alternatives presented weren't very good. Many of them were just echoes of "slashdot" and I think we want a total shift from that name. Now you may say "why didn't you come up with a better name". Frankly, if I'd known what the choices would have been like I would have spent an afternoon thinking of names. I didn't think I'd need to do that, though.
In the end the names I preferred were things such as "baconnews" and "thegarlic" They're ridiculous enough that if the look of the site was designed around them, they might work. The design matters as much as the name.
(Score: 2) by mojo chan on Thursday April 24 2014, @07:38AM
I was going to suggest ctrlaltslash or some variation, but didn't even know it was happening until it was announced that the submission period was over. I didn't get any emails, didn't know there was a "willing to vote" tick box in my profile (it wasn't there when I registered I think), and the post just happened to be during a period where I was temporarily unable to read every article for a couple of days due to travelling.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
(Score: 4, Insightful) by starcraftsicko on Wednesday April 23 2014, @10:54PM
I voted. And that's all that counts. You can close the polls now -- I'm done.
Others have mentioned some of this, but this is my feeling:
Everyone 'knows' that 'Soylentnews' is going to win. There were a couple of names on the list that I thought might have been abstractly better... but not better than changing a name/brand this long after launch and without compelling reason.
I think "There's nothing more permanent than a temporary solution" applies here.
That said,
1 - since you of the back end have final veto and/or discretion, the list should have been much shorter. Five, or at most, ten names should have been the max and all of them should have been pre-vetted and approved by administration.
2 - a list this long, if needed, could have been subjected to the scrutiny of a slash-poll. Yes, the AC's would have voted, but better here than in the last round.
3 - Voting by email sucks.
4 - before becoming concerned, see how the quantity of voters compares with the quantity of 'active moderators' in the last week. If the number of voters is close to the number of people who participate (however peripherally) in administering the site, you're probably doing OK.
5 - Don't re-vote. Revoting sucks worse than voting by email.
My $.02
This post was created with recycled electrons.
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Thursday April 24 2014, @03:09AM
starcraftsicko says...
"4 - before becoming concerned, see how the quantity of voters compares with the quantity of 'active moderators' in the last week. If the number of voters is close to the number of people who participate (however peripherally) in administering the site, you're probably doing OK."
I think that's a good observation.
starcraftsicko says...
"5 - Don't re-vote. Revoting sucks worse than voting by email."
My thought (which I muttered somewhere upstream) was that an easy workaround for the confused-by-the-instructions is to let people vote as often as they like until the deadline, but only count the last ballot from any given VoterID. Since the VoterID thing is in place as a dupe check anyway, seems to me they could just add timestamp checking and only count the last of however many ballots from each person.
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 2) by AudioGuy on Thursday April 24 2014, @04:49AM
The answer to this can be found here:
http://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?sid=1177&cid=35 354 [soylentnews.org] (just added)
And many others in threads there, where as many answers as we can come up with are kept.
I will go through this thread and try to answer more of them tomorrow, however MANY are actually already answered if you read there.
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Thursday April 24 2014, @05:15AM
Thanks, I hadn't seen that, but I'm not surprised that you've got it covered already. :)
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 2) by mojo chan on Thursday April 24 2014, @07:42AM
The problem is that the vote has no legitimacy now, so really should be abandoned. Re-running the whole thing properly would be preferable. Nothing wrong with admitting your mistakes and doing it right the second time.
The site name is a pretty major aspect of it, and if the goal really is to be powered by the users (submitting stories, commenting) then it really needs to respect the users.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
(Score: 2) by Open4D on Thursday April 24 2014, @03:33PM
Why? Some people haven't fully understood various instructions, but it's not like we're voting for a political representative or anything on that level of seriousness.
Furthermore, anyone who voted wrongly can re-do it [soylentnews.org].
Admittedly, people who didn't select the "Willing to Vote" option before the deadline have missed out. Ideally they would be accommodated now (without extending the voting period). But if that's not convenient for the administrators, then too bad.
(Score: 2) by mojo chan on Thursday April 24 2014, @04:47PM
Well, that's the problem, isn't it? The "willing to vote" option was silently added, and the call for suggestions was easy to miss. The suggestions aren't brilliant and I would have added mine if I had even known it was happening.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
(Score: 2) by Open4D on Thursday April 24 2014, @04:58PM
It was announced by the 2nd sentence of the Call for Suggestions for Site Name Vote [soylentnews.org] submission.
(Score: 2) by xlefay on Thursday April 24 2014, @05:09PM
That post was "at the top" of the list, for maybe 24 hours, hardly enough time for a lot of people to see it, unfortunately.
(Score: 2) by Open4D on Thursday April 24 2014, @05:33PM
It may not have been at the top of the front page for long, but it was still available in amongst all the other stories, with an easily distinguishable headline. The fundamental usage scenario for this site is for people to look through the list of stories.
You could complain that it was only 3 days (approx) between that story being posted and the first voting email. But there has to be some time limit, and there will always be someone inconvenienced by the limit. Other people are complaining about the process being too slow and making the incumbent name into the inevitable winner.
It's not like we're voting for a political representative or anything on that level of seriousness.
(Score: 2) by Open4D on Thursday April 24 2014, @05:37PM
Might as well post them here. If you get lots of positive comments, maybe your suggestion will get in through the back door (via the staff vote?).
(Score: 2) by mrcoolbp on Friday April 25 2014, @03:50AM
For what it's worth, we did at the users that spoke up in the week after the deadline passed back into the voting pool. We've learned a lot from this process, and I assure you, we'll improve this process in the future.
(Score:1^½, Radical)
(Score: 2) by hankwang on Wednesday April 23 2014, @10:57PM
I did vote, but I'm not sure it registered. So many DO NOTs in the mail. Counterintuitive "1 is least preferred, 9 is most preferred". The mind gets distracted because every option already has a sequence number. Not clear what kind of text mangling by the email client it can handle. My procedure was to copy all names to an editor, delete all names that I didn't like until there were 9 left, rank them, check three times that I used all digits 1-9 once, then manually copy the numbers in the full 90-item list because I wasn't sure that the parser could handle a partial or out-of-order list.
It would have been far easier to deal with if the instructions had been something like: "send an email with up to 9 domain names, most preferred one first, along with your voter-ID. Don't worry about formatting, line breaks, html, or base64-encoding; the parser will handle them just fine. Remember to delete undesired domains from the quoted original message."
I recently set up a majordomo mailinglist and tried to test it from a hotmail account. Turns out that hotmail won't send plain-text emails, and that majordomo barfs if you try to unsubscribe or subscribe using html mail. It's not clear whether the vote parser here can handle html mail.
Some people here suggest a web interface, but that could be a lot of work to setup such that it deals easily with a 90-long list, even for the anti-javascript purists here.
Avantslash: SoylentNews for mobile [avantslash.org]
(Score: 2) by isostatic on Wednesday April 23 2014, @11:02PM
"1 is least preferred, 9 is most preferred".
Oh bugger. I'm a geek, I don't RTFM until all other avenues are lost, and I certainly don't RTFM for such a long
I have no idea if my vote registered.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 23 2014, @11:19PM
And that's why soylentnews will win because everyone gave it a 9 without realising they are inadvertently supporting the name
(Score: 2) by isostatic on Thursday April 24 2014, @01:02PM
Perhaps the poll setters aren't used to things like STV, where you rank your candidates in order from your 1st choice to your 5th choice
(Score: 2) by mrcoolbp on Thursday April 24 2014, @03:17PM
http://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?sid=1177&cid=35 354 [soylentnews.org]
(Score:1^½, Radical)
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 23 2014, @11:19PM
I read the instructions and voted correctly. I've never liked the name and would have preferred to have the vote earlier (before so many got used to this one).
Will a bad name stop me from being here? No.
Will it have a hard time attracting new users and getting a better link rating? Maybe.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by dtremenak on Wednesday April 23 2014, @11:23PM
I'm sure this'll get moderated redundant, but since we're being asked for feedback I might as give some, even if it's bound to be pretty much the same as everyone else's.
- Voting by email to begin with was not a great idea. Works great for mailing lists. Not so good for websites.
- Sending the email with reams of instructions about how not to break the parser was certainly not a way to build confidence that our votes would count.
- "Rank from 1 to 9, but 9 is the best," is patently ridiculous. I'd be willing to bet good money that at least 25% of your respondents put them in the opposite order. (You know, where 1st place is 1, 2nd place is 2, and so on).
- "Choose 9 of these 90 options" is even more ridiculous. Ain't nobody got time for that.
- And my subscription address is a Yahoo! account, so I couldn't even reply to the darned thing. I know that's just Yahoo! being stupid, nothing SoylentNews has to do with it, but when combined with all the above issues, it was enough for me to decide I just didn't care enough.
Besides, "SoylentNews," while it might not be a superb name, is just fine. I already have it bookmarked.
(Score: 2) by gringer on Thursday April 24 2014, @12:03AM
Yep, count me in for that. It wasn't clear enough in the email (what does "highest" mean?), so I went with what I've used before for similar voting systems. I'm used to a preferential voting system where you can put in as many numbers as you want, counting up from 1, with 1 being the best preference. A single '1' vote means that you rank a single option above all others, and all others are equally bad (or equally good).
Ask me about Sequencing DNA in front of Linus Torvalds [youtube.com]
(Score: 1) by jpkunst on Thursday April 24 2014, @12:46PM
I understood the "Rank from 1 to 9, but 9 is the best" conundrum (after reading it a few times to make sure). I only voted for one domain and in that case I don't see how it matters which number I use for that vote (since all other unranked names are below the single ranked name). So I used "1" for my ranking number.
Agreed that the "9 is best, 1 is worst" ranking is counterintuitive and a bad idea.
(Score: 2) by mrcoolbp on Thursday April 24 2014, @03:18PM
You can re send it:
http://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?sid=1177&cid=35 354 [soylentnews.org]
(Score:1^½, Radical)
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Appalbarry on Wednesday April 23 2014, @11:32PM
...we've had relatively small percentage (~10 percent) of members register to vote...
1) 10% of how many people? A hundred? A thousand? A hundred thousand? Percentage alone is pretty meaningless.
2) Having worked in many, many volunteer and/or non-profit settings: 10% is good. Very good. Most people honestly don't care or can't be bothered.
3) 2-4% are going to complain about any process and any choice of name. Accept that, move on.
4) There is no process so simple or intuitive that someone, somewhere won't get confused. Unless you find less than a hundred people voting I wouldn't lose any sleep.
5) Finally, if it's not already planned, please do a run off vote with maybe four or five finalists. I expect that many people look at that endless list and go "Lord no...."
(I admit to reading only enough of the instructions to figure out how to vote. The rest I ignored.)
(Score: 2) by ancientt on Wednesday April 23 2014, @11:55PM
I have two accounts, I only set one up to vote because I want to be fair. I really want to vote a couple thousand times or just get asked to pick the final name, but I recognize the difference between what I like and what is best for the community (even if my opinion is actually the best one.)
I didn't submit a different name because I couldn't find any available domain name better than a couple of the suggestions I liked.
I didn't find the email process too cumbersome or unreasonable. I understand the goal is to prevent ballot stuffing and get a reasonable proximity to "one vote per interested person." I'm okay with it. Yes, I'd do it differently, but you're running a website that solicits the opinions of capable and opinionated geeks, so I think that's probably true for most of us. When all is said and done, I think what was done works as a first step toward final name selection and that is what I want as a primary goal.
How do I think I would have set it up? I think a poll with the prompt to ACs to "Login if you want to vote" and a plus/minus ranking system in HTML with a note that your vote won't be counted until you confirm by clicking a link sent to your registered email. I wouldn't have included the current domain in the voting, but noted that it would be in the runoff and in the runoff I would have listed it as "incumbent" where all the others showed how many votes they garnered in the primary. Maybe my ideas would have gotten more voting activity, maybe they would have been more intuitive and maybe they would have been even more successful, but maybe then again maybe not.
Bottom line is that what you did works and that's what I care about most.
This post brought to you by Database Barbie
(Score: 2) by xlefay on Thursday April 24 2014, @05:10PM
It's more like, 8% out of 4229 (as of this moment) people (well, I suppose there could be a few bots in there!).
(Score: 2) by AudioGuy on Thursday April 24 2014, @09:34PM
'Finally, if it's not already planned, please do a run off vote with maybe four or five finalists. I expect that many people look at that endless list and go "Lord no...."'
Yes: http://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?sid=1177&cid=30 259 [soylentnews.org]
Answer to question #1 -
507 checked the box and have been sent ballots etc. Another 18 have been added manually (people who were gone, or misread instructions, etc)
Out of 4116 registered users at the time the time the vote started.
I haven't counted the complainers. 146 comments to this thread, not all complaints of course.
Too early to tell how many voted. Will post full stats at the end.
Your comment gave me hope. :-)
(Score: 1) by jackb_guppy on Wednesday April 23 2014, @11:50PM
yahoo keep calling the reply SPAM. Violating their posting rules.
Had to cut out very thing but the begin and end marks and the one name I was voting for. I hope it got through! I tried over 20 differnet ways to send the message. I could have used another email address but did not know if email address was also being validated.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by michealpwalls on Thursday April 24 2014, @12:01AM
I voted 9 for SoylentNews, however I hadn't realized until fairly late in the voting that you had to opt-in in the SoylentNews user preferences. If I didn't put a check in that box, would I have missed the vote entirely?
The one thing I think that was missing from the actual voting system was some feedback. A simple confirmation of success or fail is all.
(Score: 1) by The Archon V2.0 on Thursday April 24 2014, @04:25AM
> I hadn't realized until fairly late in the voting that you had to opt-in in the SoylentNews user preferences.
Wait, what user preference?
(Looks.)
Dammit! I hadn't noticed that setting before!
(Score: 2) by clone141166 on Thursday April 24 2014, @07:01AM
This is a good point. Seeing as it's already optional whether or not you choose to reply to the voting email, maybe the participate-in-votes user preference should be enabled by default? Sending all registered users voting emails by default, until they expressly opt-out of ever receiving voting emails via the user preference.
I know everything about the voting process was mentioned. But tbh much more needs to be done to simplify the voting process. Parts of it are complicated and other parts are unintuitive and contrary to established precedents. Voting should essentially be the easiest thing to do on the web site, otherwise people will either be confused or simply not participate.
(Score: 1) by MrNemesis on Thursday April 24 2014, @12:13PM
Ditto; I saw all the talk of a vote and judging by my join date I should have been eligible, but there was never a list of names, never any mention of where to go to to vote and once it became apparent it was all done over email, it's only your post that indicated to me that in order to be eligible I needed to tick the "willing to vote" button which, like so many other I suspect, I had never seen until I went looking for it - I set my prefs up when I joined the site and don't hop back into them every day.
Le sigh.
"To paraphrase Nietzsche, I have looked into the abyss and been sick in it."
(Score: 2) by Common Joe on Thursday April 24 2014, @02:25AM
I have two accounts with Soylent News. I remember the first coming in (for this account) but not the second (which has a much higher UID). I saw the email and because I've been really busy (looking for a job sucks), I just didn't worry about it at the time. Now I can't find it.
Honestly, it doesn't matter to me anymore for reasons others have outlined. I think changing the name would do more harm to the community than keeping it, but I'll go with the popular vote. I like the Soylent News name, but I'm not that picky. There are more important things I need to do than worrying about the name of a website I'm going to come back and visit anyway.
(Score: 2) by forsythe on Thursday April 24 2014, @02:40AM
I read through the voting procedure, it sounded pretty straightforward, and I appreciated the use of a multi-candidate-optimized voting system instead of the simplistic "one vote per person, first past the poll wins." I almost signed up just because it sounded cool, and for what it's worth, I completely understand the use of email-based voting.
That said, I didn't. Frankly, I don't really care what name this is under. I'll get used to whatever this place is called. Since I don't really have an interest in a particular name, I don't think I should vote at all.
(Score: 1) by islisis on Thursday April 24 2014, @02:56AM
I'm reposting from this thread [soylentnews.org] because I'm still interested in any answer
I presume the inverted 'rank' numbers are employed as it's claimed "In a sense, it's more like moderating than voting."
Why should we need to moderate the candidates, when the result calls for a single name? A vote determines what we prefer, not what we scored. If it is a moderated event, the implementation makes no sense. What is the reason for barring multiple "9" ratings? The quasi-ranked input is completely arbitrary.
If it is based on a voting algorithm instead, do you have information about the one you employed? For instance what how it might result in the outcome commented in the official help [soylentnews.org]:
"You might even only vote for one, since in a close race your second number could actually break a tie - and not in your favor."
(Score: 1) by Bob The Cowboy on Thursday April 24 2014, @03:31AM
The name submission email did not, but this one went to spam. I didn't see it until just now. I use gmail, fwiw, so I'm willing to bet this applies to a lot of folks. Also, my eyes just sort of gloss over things like the banner on the side, so I didn't even think to look for the email.
Some notes:
The (entire) process is pretty cumbersome... not impossible, but definitely a deterrent for something that should be simple. Why not (as others have said) a set of dropdowns in the users profile pages? I get that it isn't trivial, but its probably how you'll want to do (previously mentioned) future votes.
Waaay too many names. I would have been fine with the staff narrowing it down to 20 or so.
For better or worse, probably most people are just fine with the name.
You should run a poll (yes, I know the issues/caveats): "Should we vote to change the name? [Yes/No]" If the 'Yes' camp can't muster 25%, just move on. It's just not a big enough deal that I would expect someone would stack the vote.
(Score: 2) by quadrox on Thursday April 24 2014, @05:06AM
At this point I am beginning to feel a little bit irritated. There are only few signups for the vote? Really? After all the effort you went through to make sure people knew about the voting checkbox on the profile page?
Oh wait - you didn't. There was no clearly visible public announcement about this feature. No banner, no nothing. It was mentioned once in a tl/dr piece about the vote, that's it. I didn't catch it, I didn't get no emails. And you have kept steamrolling through with this process as if everything was in perfect order.
and now you said you didn't even bother to add late comers? Well, what did you expect?
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 24 2014, @05:10AM
I didn't vote because I prefer to remain anonymous and not create and account, and because even though I dislike the current name I doubt it will be changed because it existed for long enough for people to develop an attachment to it.
I would prefer a name that is closer to technology, like slashdot was, because maybe then it will be harder for the site to steer away from "news for nerds".
Current name sounds populist and doesn't sound very techie.
Current name is a reminder of a dystopian cult movie about an overcrowded starving future where people eat each other... it's a good movie but it's about a bleak future and not only it's not related to technology news but so it's also a depressing name.
I don't have any idea for a better name but pipedot sounds better, since their site doesn't seem to gain any popularity maybe the two projects might unite.
(Score: 1) by number6 on Thursday April 24 2014, @05:52AM
For me, the only significant part of the name which must not be changed is the first letter "S".
I don't care what name you choose, but the first letter has a functional quality when juxtaposed against other words beginning with "S" in lists.
It's like choosing a planet further away from the Sun than what exists now.
(Score: 1) by number6 on Thursday April 24 2014, @06:09AM
Since you want feedback on a name...I'll throw one out there: spacebar
(Score: 2) by freesword on Thursday April 24 2014, @07:56AM
I had no problem with the opt in system. Logged in, went to my preferences, checked the box. Confirmation notice would have been nice (this will be a recurring theme).
First e-mail for submitting suggestions arrived fine. I had no suggestions to offer so no action taken. Again I will mention that for those who submitted suggestions a confirmation of successful submission would be nice.
Second e-mail for initial vote ranking landed in spam folder. Marked it as not spam. Took a while to filter through the list of about 90 suggestions. Finally pared it down. Ranked the ones I liked best. I initially found the ranking of 9 best 1 least counter intuitive mostly as the reverse has been more commonly used in my experience but both ways have precedent and it was more a matter of which was most familiar. The instructions were clear however so this was not a problem. Could not reply from the address I received it at because Yahoo in their infinite automated wisdom thought there was something suspicious about the e-mail. A friend who frequents the IRC and had the same issue asked and was informed that reply could be sent from a different e-mail address so long as the original was copied in its entirety. Sent my vote in from another provider with no problem. Confirmation of successful vote would be nice.
My biggest complaint is not with the voting system but with Yahoo. That aside the biggest issue I have with this voting system is the lack of confirmation of successful submission.
The process took effort on my part, but not excessively so. Still this probably put off many people as we live in the age of one click checkout.
(Score: 1) by pTamok on Thursday April 24 2014, @08:08AM
"A rose by any other name would smell as sweet."
The name is far less important than the content.
(Score: 2) by prospectacle on Thursday April 24 2014, @10:47AM
Minor difficulties and inconveniences put people off voting, for example:
- Having to log in to a separate program/account (email), when we may already be logged in to this site.
- Needing to set a separate "I'm willing to vote" setting (a consequence of using email as the voting method, I guess)
- Having to rank backwards (1 isn't 1st preference, but it's called a 'rank')
- In some cases having to look in the spam folder, or change webmail settings (e.g. to use plain-text email when it may not be the default).
These are not massive problems, but in combination several small problems can make a big difference to turnout, especially when most people aren't too concerned about what the name is, and have gotten used to the current name (and unlike me, may not be democracy/voting-system nerds).
The easiest solution, imo would be:
- A web-form you have to be logged in to use. It can be a separate page so no integration with the rest of the slash interface needs to occur.
- No "willing to vote" setting is necessary. If you don't want to vote, don't.
- Give a confirmation/preview of how your vote will count if you submit it as is. (can also indicate malformed entries).
- Rank from 1st on down, and make it clear in the confirmation screen how it will count. Also you can allow people to type either "1st" or "1". You can also let them rank as far as they want, it doesn't need to end at 9.
Whether you use these suggestions or not, I'm confident the voting will get better, and the problems were relatively minor, in my opinion.
Having two votes seems unnecessary, as well. You can have the staff make a shortlist that they're happy (enough) with, and let the users pick the winner, or vice versa.
If a plan isn't flexible it isn't realistic
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 24 2014, @10:49AM
I registered here Feb 18th and received no notice to vote, ballot, etc...
I hope BACON is on the list, or me thinks this is just another Florida recount.
(Score: 3) by weeds on Thursday April 24 2014, @01:15PM
The email went to my spam folder (Yahoo!) No big deal, I was warned that might happen.
I had to read the ranking scheme twice to be sure I was doing it right. (Big Deal - Like I never read a man page or MS tech page more than once.) Starting at "10" might have made a little more sense to some people.
Replied, copied the text, added numbers, sent. What the heck are you all complaining about? This site is a reboot of one that was "news for nerds" (emphasis on WAS) Is it really that hard for a nerd to check their spam folder and reply to an email?
DO NOT abandon, restart, or change the voting process. People have voted, so now you are committed. This site is about community, not technology. Midstream changes break the community. You have a process, you explained the process, you followed up on the process, now stick to it. Integrity is what matters here. Improvements are made for the next time.
Get money out of politics! [mayday.us]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 24 2014, @01:51PM
Is it really that hard for a site run by nerds to set up a fucking WEB PAGE to easily present the choices and register votes for people who have ALREADY logged in to the damn site? No, no, it's got to be as arcane and difficult as possible, because vote fraud.
They're called "radio buttons"!
My god it's as if they wanted no one to vote at all.
(Score: 2) by weeds on Thursday April 24 2014, @02:19PM
Nonsense. A lot of thought went into the voting system. Issues discussed covered ranking systems vs absolute systems, members vs non-members, getting it out quickly, etc. Anyone who was interested could have stepped on over to IRC and joined the discussion. The management has done nothing but try to include as many members as possible and be as open as possible in everything they do.
Get money out of politics! [mayday.us]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 24 2014, @07:48PM
It's "nonsense" that a voting system that allowed logged in members to vote right here on the site -- picking selections via radio buttons or checkboxes -- would have garnered MASSIVELY more than a 10% user participation rate, with less confusing and more accurate results, compared to this multilevel text e-mail catastrophe?
If you seriously believe that, then there's no hope. You and the SN management are off somewhere outside reality.
(Score: 2) by weeds on Friday April 25 2014, @12:32AM
The nonsense part was that the management of Soylentnews was somehow trying to keep people from voting. That, AC, is nonsense. That there might have been better ways to to it is quite possible. Contending that it is too hard to use as it is, also nonsense.
Get money out of politics! [mayday.us]