Whats happening? Why the sudden rush of common sense? Sincerely hope that good sense prevails and continues to move forward.
In a surprising vote late Thursday night, a strong majority of the House of Representatives voted to cut funding to NSA operations that involve warrantless spying on Americans, or involve putting hardware or software "backdoors" into various products. The amendment to a defense appropriations bill was offered by Reps. James Sensenbrenner (R-WI), Zoe Lofgren (D-CA), and Thomas Massie (R-KY), passed 293-123.
The amendment ( http://repcloakroom.house.gov/uploadedfiles/massie.pdf ) [PDF] specifies that, with a few exceptions, "none of the funds made available by this Act may be used by an officer or employee of the United States to query a collection of foreign intelligence information acquired under section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (50 U.S.C. 1881a) using a United States person as an identifier."
In addition, "none of the funds made available by this Act may be used by the National Security Agency or the Central Intelligence Agency to mandate or request that a person...alter its product or service to permit the electronic surveillance...of any user of said product or service for said agencies." Since Edward Snowden began leaking documents about the NSA's tactics in June of last year, security experts have worried about reports of intentional weaknesses left in widely-used cryptography specifications.
(Score: 2) by AnythingGoes on Friday June 20 2014, @01:03PM
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 20 2014, @03:20PM
The CIA has used "illegal" things like drugs to fund black ops etc. The government created a law that allowed them to steal money from drug dealers to be used to create war chests for law enforcement, unfortunately the laws actually allow them to steal from even little old ladies life's savings, provided it is over X amount of cash in their possession, which by law makes them a drug dealer and property subject to confiscation and use by law enforcement. The FBI has even used child pornography to fund the investigations into it etc.
There is growing evidence appearing in public that the NSA can snoop into computers/networks/etc pretty much when they want to. People's identities get stolen along with their wealth, banking exchanges gets leached for funds constantly, etc, etc. "Hackers", organized crime around the world, foreign governments, etc all to blame so far? Who points the fingers at such evidence? FICA covers much of it for American accounts but of course that comes out of the general fund, like the money "taken" from the NSA for certain things used to? Wonder what a near world wide hidden truncation hack would add up to? But hey not really necessary when you can insert invoices, approve payments, etc?
(Score: 2) by Sir Garlon on Friday June 20 2014, @03:25PM
Nice try, AC, pushing the "child pornography" button to short-circuit people's critical minds, but when you make an accusation like that without providing a shred of evidence, I call bullshit.
[Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 20 2014, @05:11PM
Bullshit? Yeah, everyone bullshitted about it and other things so much on IRC almost 20 years ago that it was considered that such stings [salon.com], which obviously still happen, were common knowledge. As well as how they didn't necessarily want it well known that they often seized sites and evidence that they could use to entrap even more people while continuing its operation, even some who only had their stolen CC info used. Maybe the Candyman can find you an Avalanche of information on similar events but this is too much like discussing the existence of speed traps and other IRC time wasters, perhaps even discussing whether or not XYZcorps uses paid shills. Have to be careful not to go Russian into things anyway.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 20 2014, @03:53PM
The only funding this prohibits is searching the database for names of US residents. Just how much do you think it costs to search the database? There's still plenty of funding to collect, maintain, and enlarge the data store, NSA just won't be able to use federal funds to pay for specific queries. I have little doubt they will easily find alternate funding sources.
Hell, agents might even be willing to pay the penny out of their own pocket. I can see it now: every computer will have a Search Jar next to it, like the jar where you're supposed to put a quarter when you take a cup of coffee from the break room.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Friday June 20 2014, @05:14PM
The air conditioning will actually be for Alaska... the inground pools as well.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 2) by lx on Friday June 20 2014, @01:09PM
Spying on allies is still A-OK.
(Score: 2) by Sir Garlon on Friday June 20 2014, @01:30PM
International relations are traditionally more governed by treaties than by national laws. If NATO countries and other allies want to enter anti-spying treaties with the USA, I think they should get started negotiating. (I have not heard that serious talks are underway, but the media are biased and sensationalized it might be happening without my knowledge.)
[Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Thexalon on Friday June 20 2014, @01:46PM
Spying on allies is and has always been common practice. It's a different sort of spying, but at the very least you want enough spying to know if your ally is considering not being your ally anymore or not doing what you'd like them to do (e.g. trading with an enemy of yours that isn't an enemy of theirs).
That's obviously a different sort of thing than trying to, say, bust Iranian centrifuges with Stuxnet, but it's not uncommon at all for this kind of spying to happen in friendly countries. I'm sure the US has at least a couple of spies focused on the UK, for example, even though we've been close allies since WW I.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 20 2014, @01:54PM
More importantly, it basically validates the NSA's interpretation, that it's not spying unless a human looks at the data. Meanwhile, what most of us object to is the creation of the database in the first place.
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Friday June 20 2014, @03:08PM
One thing at a time! Oh my god seriously people.
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 3, Insightful) by TK on Friday June 20 2014, @01:29PM
We weren't weren't collecting data on foreigners with N degrees of separation from a US citizen, we were collecting data on US citizens with N degrees of separation from a foreigner.
We weren't telling companies to modify their hardware or software, we were modifying it ourselves.
Not to mention none of this (quoted in TFS at least) precludes having companies do the spying then selling/giving it to a TLA.
The fleas have smaller fleas, upon their backs to bite them, and those fleas have lesser fleas, and so ad infinitum
(Score: 1) by exec on Friday June 20 2014, @01:40PM
crutchy says in #Soylent on irc.sylnt.us:
they will merely find their funding from the many off-the-books sources available to them
(Score: 2) by Sir Garlon on Friday June 20 2014, @02:24PM
They can probably do that to some extent, but presumably they already use those off-the-books funding sources for other shady things. They are not today in a position to greatly expand their funding for black programs. So they will have to give up something.
[Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by morgauxo on Friday June 20 2014, @01:49PM
Does this mean we get a new 3 letter organization? That's how it works isn't it. They make a new organization to be the bad guys. Eventually the people start paying attention and complaining. They strip away the 'bad guy' jobs leaving the old organization to police something or other (probably still lesser bad guy stuff but maybe they do some good now and then too). Then they create a new one to pick up spying on, tracking, keeping files on and maybe occasionally even disappearting citizens. What's it been so far; FBI, CIA, NSA? Does the ATF belong in there somewhere?
(Score: 3, Funny) by c0lo on Friday June 20 2014, @02:45PM
ATF no, but WTF definitely does.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Sir Garlon on Friday June 20 2014, @03:21PM
It's doubtful we'll get a new three letter organization. The bill says "none of the funds made available by this Act may be used by an officer or employee of the United States" (emphasis added) so the shifting the activity to a different agency won't get around it. This is Congress: they understand the shell game [wikipedia.org] very well!
The limitation is that this only affects money from one bill, albeit a major one, and only next year.
[Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by metamonkey on Friday June 20 2014, @06:30PM
So it'll be done by private companies and independent contractors then.
Okay 3, 2, 1, let's jam.
(Score: 2) by Sir Garlon on Friday June 20 2014, @07:10PM
Maybe. IANAL but I think the word I would want to see is "agent" because that could include someone who is working on behalf of the government, without being an employee.
That said, if the NSA tried that dodge this year, there is a good chance someone would blow the whistle, and Congress's rage would be epic if that happened. Seriously, you might indeed see Congress do something real -- a special prosecutor, aka "witch hunt" -- if the NSA pulled a stunt like that. I think the smart move would be for the NSA to wait out the storm before trying those kind of shenanigans. But they're so incredibly arrogant, I don't actually trust them to act in their own self-interest. Would love it if they shot themselves in the foot, so here's hoping.
[Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
(Score: 2) by urza9814 on Monday June 23 2014, @05:26PM
This assumes Congress actually WANTS to put a stop to this. A couple sentences full of loopholes big enough to float a freakin' oil tanker through, which only applies to a single bill, for only a limited period of time...that sure as hell isn't the impression I got from it!
Congress doesn't want to stop the NSA; at most they want to threaten the NSA enough that the NSA doesn't screw with Congress.
(Score: 2) by cafebabe on Sunday June 22 2014, @06:50PM
And those contractors are quite aware that they have no whistleblower protection and will be hounded.
1702845791×2
(Score: 2, Insightful) by lgsoynews on Friday June 20 2014, @01:53PM
Unimpressed: I'm not american.
Still, this is a step in the right direction. But I'm not holding my breath, we'll see if that new attitude persists.
(Score: 1) by goodie on Friday June 20 2014, @01:57PM
As if the bulk of the funding did not come "classified", unaccounted for sources anyway...
(Score: 2, Insightful) by deego on Friday June 20 2014, @02:07PM
With Obama, Republicans seem to have discovered their love for liberty. All rhetoric aside, opposition to patriot act was *almost all* democrat.
But, well, that was then!
What about now?
Let's look at the current vote. Republicans *still* outnumbered Democrats 3 to 1 in opposing this vote.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by DeathMonkey on Friday June 20 2014, @06:13PM
From the Article:
The vote for the amendment was bipartisan. Democrats supported it 158 to 29, while Republicans supported it 135 to 94.
So, 84% of the Democrats vs 59% of the Republicans.
(Score: 1) by deego on Friday June 20 2014, @11:19PM
True, so, as I said, the ratio of the number opposing is 29:95, or even more skewed than 1:3
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 21 2014, @09:47AM
Maybe I'm missing some finer details here. But how is opposing this vote championing liberty? I looked for indicators of sarcasm but didn't see them.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 21 2014, @12:46PM
The only thing Republicans are championing is their love of making Democrats look bad at all costs.
(Score: 4, Informative) by isostatic on Friday June 20 2014, @02:11PM
Isn't this spying illegal under the U.S. constitution?
If so, why aren't lots of rich white men from the top of the NSA in jail?
If not, why not make it illegal?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Friday June 20 2014, @02:35PM
The people in DC only do anything when they become aware they're about to be lynched. Else you can count on them to do 100% the wrong thing 100% of the time.
So the chatter outside the Beltway must be getting intense, and the fall of the first American republic is closer than we thought. I recommend beating the rush, guys, and stocking up on supplies now. If you live in an urban area and feel like you'll need to get out, a car won't help you. We learned in NYC during the blackout and 9/11 that cars and public transportation are not viable options for getting out of Dodge. Walking doesn't help much because you can't get very far very fast. A bike is what you want. You can get between stuck cars, down sidewalks, and go off-road if you need to. You can easily travel more than 100 miles in a day, and that's enough to get you out of any metropolitan area.
If you have enough land it's probably good to start a vegetable garden and raise chickens, because logistical networks will break down for a while and you'll get awfully hungry if you can't provide your own food. Make sure you have guns and plenty of ammunition, too, because other people will not plan ahead and will try to seize what you have.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by Sir Garlon on Friday June 20 2014, @03:13PM
I think you've made quite a leap from a routine budget vote in Congress to the imminent collapse of civil order. If you're hoping for the Mad Max scenario so fervently, maybe we'd all be better off if you stay in your bunker 24/7.
[Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by Phoenix666 on Friday June 20 2014, @04:10PM
It's not news because it's a routine budget vote, it's news because so far Washington DC has been closing ranks on spying against the citizenry. We have not heard anyone in the government calling Snowden anything but a traitor, despite repeated polls that show an overwhelming majority of Americans consider him a hero. So when the House votes to defund an entire swathe of the NSA's activities it means something fundamental has changed. government has entirely become an agent of the corporations, by the corporations, and for the corporations and they do nothing unless corporations tell them to. They never do something like this unless regular people force them to. remember when they shut down SOPA? They only did it because it was the highest spike of public fury in recent memory. this time, unlike that time, there is no google- and wikipedia-led charge, so I am surmising that the general level of anger at the government has gotten high enough to penetrate the beltway bubble and compel them to act.
I personally am not looking forward to a breakdown in public order, but to a restoration of law and order. when top executives at HSBC launder billions of dollars for the Zetas, I want them to find themselves on death row. when it's discovered that wall street traders are front-running trades with FPGAs, I want them to serve life sentences in a supermax. when the Director of National Intelligence openly lies to Congress, I want him to be thrown in jail. I don't think that makes me unusual among Americans nor a person who lives in a bunker, but one of millions of citizens who wants justice.
Some people think that America is immune to the civil unrest that is sweeping the globe because it has not happened here yet, but the fundamental social trends are all there. in fact we're overdue. and civil unrest in the US has happened, can happen, and will happen. I choose to be prepared and recommend others do likewise to better weather the storm, but it's perfectly fine by me if you and yours choose not to.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Lagg on Friday June 20 2014, @05:20PM
I don't know how serious you are but you sure do make complete revolution seem romantic. I like it and subscribe to your newsletter. Does also remind me that I really need to stop dragging ass on buying this handgun I've had my eye on. Not necessarily because of said unrest but because where I live is commonly called the Meth Capital and things have been getting worse since the DEA's recent harassment. So home defense is certainly something to invest in. Funny you mention cars though, I physically can't drive due to a surgery but love bikes. So I'm already ahead of the curve. Heh.
http://lagg.me [lagg.me] 🗿
(Score: 2) by cafebabe on Sunday June 22 2014, @07:53PM
Circumstantially, banks and corporations certainly look like the paymasters here. To me, it looks like the rules are being changed because the NSA's antics are adversely affecting the profits of Boeing, Microsoft, Cisco and Google.
1702845791×2
(Score: 2) by urza9814 on Monday June 23 2014, @05:33PM
There's your problem right there. This vote is standard political theater, nothing more. They're not defunding the NSA. They're passing a couple sentences cutting off a portion of funding provisioned through a single bill, for a limited time, with enough loopholes to float a freakin' oil tanker though. And it's only the House -- gonna be even more watered-down IF it ever passes the Senate (as is standard practice.)
At most -- Congress is telling the NSA not to screw with Congress. That's all.
Even if this passes, the NSA can simply redirect other funding sources (this bill's money just pays for the electricity; that OTHER bill's money paid for the actual spying equipment!) or hire independent contractors (It wasn't government employees who did the spying; it was Microsoft! We just bought the data!)
Nothing to see here; just the usual games...
(Score: 2, Interesting) by q.kontinuum on Friday June 20 2014, @03:17PM
Can they outsource just the search, or will they outsource the whole investigation to the private sector? Or would a subcontracted company count as employee of the US as well, and this loophole does not exist? In that case, would they have to found a new company which is closed after the investigation?
So, if the data was acquired under any other act or section, or maybe illegally acquired, it can be used?
Do they already have a name for the new agency?
OK, lets for the sake of argument assume the rules were not so over-specific. How would they intend to control the agencies?
Registered IRC nick on chat.soylentnews.org: qkontinuum
(Score: 2, Insightful) by cyrano on Friday June 20 2014, @08:46PM
Common sense?
Sounds like NewSpeak to me. How the hell can they cut funding for something they know nothing about? It's not as if CIA/NSA is going to give hem a list of all projects involving monitoring Americans that is even remotely accurate, is it?
CIA/NSA have been caught lying to the president, congress, judges, their own agents... Why would anyone believe anything from a known unreliable source?
The quieter you become, the more you are able to hear. - Kali [kali.org]