Wired reports that:
While ostensibly a plan to make the entire state of 38 million people more governable, the six-state initiative is being led and funded by a member of the Silicon Valley elite, many of whom would no doubt welcome the increased political clout that would likely come from carving out their own statehood. In the hands of most, the six-state initiative would look like a pure stunt. But with Silicon Valley behind it, this effort's chances at the ballot box can't be dismissed out of hand. Unlike most other would-be revolutionaries, Silicon Valley has a long record of taking ideas that sound outlandish at the time--affordable computers in every home, private rocket ships--and managing to make them real. It also has a seemingly endless stream of money that, combined with heavy doses of ingenuity and shamelessness, give its goofball ideas the fuel they need to take off.
...
"Our gift to California is this--it's one of opportunity and choice," Draper said at a press conference yesterday where he announced the campaign had collected far more than 800,000 signatures needed to get the measure on the ballot. "We're saying, make one failing government into six great states."
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Wednesday July 23 2014, @04:44AM
Splitters! I do wonder if any of these fine persons have ever read the novel "Ecotopia". Yes, parts of Cali did become an independent country, but not without cost. And what about all those counties (well, a couple) in Colorado that voted to secede from the US? Not to mention all those wacko fringe Mormons who are "sovereign citizens" not paying grazing fees for using the land belonging to the rest of us. And what about Lanai! Remember the Maine! Moron Labia! In summary, I do not predict that this will end well. See: Afghanistan and warlords.
(Score: 2) by SpockLogic on Wednesday July 23 2014, @01:44PM
"I do not predict that this will end well. See: Afghanistan and warlords."
"We're saying, make one failing government into six (great states) failing governments."
FYI I would have fixed Draper's quote if I knew how to format strike through.
Overreacting is one thing, sticking your head up your ass hoping the problem goes away is another - edIII
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 23 2014, @10:24PM
if I knew how to format strike through
If you look below the box on the posting page, the markup tags allowed are listed there.
Strikethru is not supported.
Since the old days, Ctrl-W has the keybinding for backspace 1 word.
The way that is noted in text is ^W.
-- gewg_
(Score: 4, Insightful) by frojack on Wednesday July 23 2014, @04:46AM
Six is a guaranteed way to make two rich states, and 4 paupers.
Sounds like nest feathering to me.
Still, the state is pretty much out of touch with its extremities, people in the south think Northern Cali is a different country.
Its a nice mind game, but it will never happen.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 1) by arslan on Wednesday July 23 2014, @04:53AM
Being unfamiliar with U.S. politics, looking from the outside this sort of looks like the rich/powerful trying to gerrymander politics and economics... what's the odds of the new states, however many it ends up with, being somewhat well distributed in terms of wealth/economy/resources?
How is the state holding left holding the short stick going to better itself standing on a slippery slope? If there's a guarantee of some sort of trade/economic assistance, then that at least that makes it viable.
(Score: 2) by frojack on Wednesday July 23 2014, @05:30AM
You needn't worry about it.
Since the Civil war, no state has been successfully created from an existing one.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 2) by Sir Garlon on Wednesday July 23 2014, @11:34AM
Your first point is likely correct, but your second point is inconsistent with the first. The priorities of the rich and powerful are to keep the money for themselves and give out less economic assistance.
[Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
(Score: 2) by Hawkwind on Friday July 25 2014, @04:05AM
Your two points get to why this should fail. It's a silly Silicon Valley power grab that doesn't even make sense to most of the people there. And for the poor parts of the state no economic incentive is being offered to justify cutting themselves off from the state coffers.
I'm kind of surprised this story even showed up here.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by keplr on Wednesday July 23 2014, @05:31AM
As a Californian [wikipedia.org], this is complete horseshit. It's transparently a ploy by a wealthy VC to cleave off the "unproductive" regions of the state. He cares about Silicon Valley and the economic activity that goes on there. But what about the Central Valley? What about Napa? What about Hollywood? What about the North and their...cannabis? I don't know. I've never been north of Sacramento, not even sure there's anything up there. But I'm sure they have something. I like software, and spinach, and almonds, and wine, movies, and weed. I'm glad it's all here.
It's all good stuff and it's all part of this state. We have a lot of problems, but we'll weather them like we always do, together, with our diverse industries and strengths.
I don't respond to ACs.
(Score: 3, Informative) by frojack on Wednesday July 23 2014, @05:41AM
Oddly enough, wherever you live in the US, you have software, and spinach, and almonds, and wine, movies, and weed.
Maybe you should take a staycation in California some time.
Other than that, I completely agree that this is nonsense.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 23 2014, @07:26AM
> Oddly enough, wherever you live in the US, you have software, and spinach, and almonds, and wine, movies, and weed.
On the store shelves. But you'd have to be an idiot not to realize he was talking about production, not retail.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by RaffArundel on Wednesday July 23 2014, @12:57PM
The only thing on that list monopolized by California is almonds as far as the US goes. Even those may have European competition - not sure - doesn't Spain produce most of them for the EU?
Regardless, this (and all "split states up" - yes, I'm looking at you Texas) is stupid from a resource management perspective. California already has an issue keeping power and water flowing; what do you think is going to happen when you have six states all with different economic bases competing for the same resources?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 23 2014, @02:49PM
> The only thing on that list monopolized by California
WTF? Who said anything about monopolies?
Name a single state with significant production of even half of those.
(Score: 3, Informative) by frojack on Wednesday July 23 2014, @04:48PM
California.
Holds the largest production of any state in all but one of those categories...
Wine: California is the leading wine producing state—making more than 90 percent of all U.S. wine
Software: No monopoly, but clearly the home to 4 of the biggest US software firm an 45% of game makers
Almonds: 2013 news article indicated that the United States produced at least 80% of the world's supply.
Spinach: California (73% of 2004–06 U.S. output), Arizona (12%), and New Jersey (3%) are the top producing states,
Marijuana: hard to say, since its still illegal, but California seizures by DEA are larger than the next 4 states combined
Movies: California ranks fourth behind Louisiana, Canada and the U.K in actual film locations, Most post production still done in CA and Canada. California has taxed its movie business away to other states.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 23 2014, @07:53PM
> California.
Jesus fucking christ you are dull!
Of course it is california. That's the whole point - production (not retail) of all those things in one single state, his state, california. Not split into 6 different states.
I am totally blown away that you went to the effort to look all that up, but couldn't grasp that you were proving the obvious (and disproving your previous post up this thread).
(Score: 2) by frojack on Wednesday July 23 2014, @08:26PM
Not disproving any previous thread.
My state produces all of those things. As do many other states. You can have those things just about anywhere, grown in your home state or imported. It hardly matters, which was exactly my point, even if it went right over your head.
You don't have to LIVE in any state to have those things, and I'm astounded you would think anyone would have to, or that it is somehow cool if all those things are produced within your state.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 23 2014, @10:48PM
> Not disproving any previous thread.
>
> My state produces all of those things.
Then why didn't you cite YOUR state? Whatever it may be.
> imported.
Wooooosh!
> or that it is somehow cool if all those things are produced within your state.
You implicitly agreed that is cool by trying to disprove the OP. Whatever dude, you are just flailing and incoherent.
(Score: 2) by opinionated_science on Wednesday July 23 2014, @02:41PM
I'm not from California but it is an AWESOME place to visit...really stunning. This guys seems like the typical rich wing-nut that has never had anyone disagree with him for decades...
(Score: 1) by tftp on Wednesday July 23 2014, @08:01AM
I've never been north of Sacramento, not even sure there's anything up there. But I'm sure they have something.
From time to time I get as far north as Redding, and then I go east (on CA-299) all the way to the border with Nevada. Per my observations, all they have there is cows, and some fruit trees (visible from I-5 around Red Bluff, IIRC.) I am not competent enough to say if the plants are for cows or for humans. But you can bet that there are very few factories, very few office buildings, and hardly any international bank.
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by Arik on Wednesday July 23 2014, @08:33AM
There are actually some great people up there. Being ruled tyrannically by people who have the same attitude towards them you do.
Congratulations, you just made my argument that Cali should be split in two, at least. Because northern Cali is really an innocent victim of southern Cali, and the two have very little in common.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 23 2014, @09:21AM
> people up there. Being ruled tyrannically
I do not think that word means what you think it means.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Yog-Yogguth on Wednesday July 23 2014, @12:48PM
I think it means exactly what he thinks it means.
At what ratio does "representative democracy" turn into tyranny? Has it happened when there are 296875 citizens per elected (State) politician? Has it happened when there are 716981.132 citizens per elected (Californian federal) politician?
Numbers used: 38 million people who can vote for 128 politicians on the State level and 53 on the federal level (and 55 electoral votes but I haven't bothered including the US president). Combining State and federal "representation" into one number would be misgiving as it's only a political division of labor and not added influence when compared to being a non-federated independent nation.
Bite harder Ouroboros, bite! tails.boum.org/ linux USB CD secure desktop IRC *crypt tor (not endorsements (XKeyScore))
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 23 2014, @07:59PM
> At what ratio does "representative democracy" turn into tyranny?
It never does. Ratio is not what defines "tyranny" because if that were the criteria then all minority groups in the US would qualify. Do you think Khmer in the US are being "ruled tyrannically?"
Of course not.
Tyranny is about oppression. The idea that northern californians are being oppressed is farcical hyperbole.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Magic Oddball on Wednesday July 23 2014, @09:49AM
Everyone I know up here a bit above the Bay [wikipedia.org] feels the same. The guy's not only trying to make sure that Silicon Valley's money wouldn't need to be shared with the non-affluent, though... The way he designed the 'states' would give Libertarian & Republican voters more control over the region and extra representation within the Federal government.
(Score: 1, Troll) by Ethanol-fueled on Wednesday July 23 2014, @12:32PM
San Diego here. South California can indeed hold its own industrially, thank you very much. An as an added bonus, after the changes, we'd have very few Jews and much fewer Mexicans.
But that's not to say that we wouldn't be charitable and unjust -- we would strip away the racially discriminatory and unfair provisions of the DREAM act and other similar legislation, and offer any dissatisfied residents free bus tickets to West California where those types belong. I lived in L.A. for 3-4 years, and with the exception of a select few places they always show on T.V., it's pretty much a small third-world country.
But anyway, California is so goddamn dysfunctional that nobody should ever move here for any reason. Ever.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 23 2014, @02:29PM
San Diego here ... and much fewer Mexicans
Dude your city SHARES a border with Tijuana. You have signs on 10 showing mexican crossings. Which blows peoples minds when I show them the pictures. That problem only goes away if you figure out a way to fix Tijuana. They are coming here because it is better here. Who wouldnt do that for themselves and their family? They get here and end up with nothing because they do not have the skills to do anything.
But anyway, California is so goddamn dysfunctional that nobody should ever move here for any reason. Ever.
San Diego is nice, so is san fran, and sacramento. LA I wouldnt touch with a 50 foot barge poll. I would also never move there. I would need a 40% raise to maintain my standard of living.
Most of California's problems stem from poor tax codes, creating scarcity out of riches, and entitlement programs with little oversight. These have a very nice effect of funneling money to the very people who are proposing carving up the state this time.
(Score: 1) by Ethanol-fueled on Wednesday July 23 2014, @04:05PM
The city does share a border with Tijuana, however, a South California state would probably become the most conservative of the Californias, which would likely mean more hostility towards unassimilated and/or law-breaking immigrants. There would be none of this "think of the children" bullshit, all those migrants pouring in would be bussed straight to West California. those who advocate giving immigrants everything they want for breaking our laws should put their money where their mouths are and house and care for those immigrants themselves.
And, call me a heartless asshole, but that's one thing I can certainly get behind. Wanna come in? Play by the rules, wait in line, learn English, don't be a gang member, don't join a gang, and don't throw trash around and piss in the streets everywhere -- then I'd be happy to call you "neighbor" and "citizen" and give you a firm handshake wishing you the best of luck.
South California would also get much of the resources because of the monstrous military presence and because "muh strategic pivot to Asia."
Tijuana isn't our fucking problem. Mexico has plenty of wealth and natural resources, they don't have to play with us if they don't want to, especially with the developments with BRICS offering alternatives.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 23 2014, @10:12PM
a South California state would probably become the most conservative of the Californias
Well, as drawn by Draper, it *would* include Orange County.
---but don't be so sure. [wikimedia.org]
Bakersfield (Kern County) and the counties north and northeast of there are the real knee-jerk redneck places that vote Red no matter what.
San Diego elected Bob Filner, a Dem, as their mayor.
...who promptly got himself into a groping scandal and had to resign.
.
South California would also get much of the resources because of the monstrous military presence
El Toro: gone; turned into a park
Tustin: gone; a ghost town except for the folks visiting the giant wooden blimp hangers
The emergency landing strip in the middle of Mile Square Park: gone
The Marines, as an example, are no longer the huge presence they once were.
.
call me a heartless asshole
You're a heartless asshole.
-- gewg_
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 23 2014, @04:30PM
Isn't this why we have states? Isn't this why large governments are composed of smaller provinces? Seriously, if lumping people with similar interests and views is 'ugly', why do we have states at all?
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Buck Feta on Wednesday July 23 2014, @12:22PM
If this goes through the "unproductive" regions of the state should offer to sell water to the "productive" regions at $100 a gallon. See how well Mr. Gerrymanderer likes them apples.
- fractious political commentary goes here -
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Wednesday July 23 2014, @02:48PM
At least it would do something about their ridiculous electoral vote total. California and Texas alone are just over a third of all the votes you need to outright win the Presidency.
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 2) by khakipuce on Wednesday July 23 2014, @11:40AM
I'm sure those that really care already know but a bit of context in the summary regarding the background to this story would be helpful so that I could decide whether or not to invest time in reading the article.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 23 2014, @05:09PM
New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.
So they will have to make it so that California voluntarily says that each accompanying part is not a part of the state and then Congress has to approve. Then each of those parts need to go through the process to make a new state: have a Constitutional convention, have popular vote on said constitution, and then have Congress admit them to the union.
Good luck with that!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 24 2014, @01:24AM
You forgot one detail. State boundaries are set by their constitutions, so it would actually require amending the California State Constitution.
(Score: 1) by VAXcat on Thursday July 24 2014, @03:11PM
You forgot about Texas - as part of the condition of its annexation to the Union, Texas can divide itself into five states if it wants to.
There is not god, and Dirac is his prophet.
(Score: 1) by dpp on Wednesday July 23 2014, @10:24PM
Probably far too complicated to break-up CA and re-form as separate states.
If this is for economic and political reasons, California might feel more at home joining Canada. :)
I for one invite California to secede and join us as our 11th Province!
Well...maybe as our 12th, we still have our eyes on Turks & Caicos:
http://www.vancouversun.com/travel/Turks+Caicos+part+Canada+dream+lives/9876123/story.html [vancouversun.com]
(Score: 2) by mendax on Thursday July 24 2014, @04:49AM
I would love to be rid of the Republican, Tea Party, State of Jefferson whack job neo-fascists north of Sacramento and in the San Joaquin Valley. They will no longer be sucking on the state government tits and have to suck on the federal government one, one which they want to stop others from sucking on. I'd like to see how long they manage before they want to rejoin the urban parts of California. However, this would not be a good thing for the United States. This country already has one West Virginia. It does not need several more.
It's really quite a simple choice: Life, Death, or Los Angeles.
(Score: 2) by mendax on Thursday July 24 2014, @04:56AM
The state legislature as a whole has to approve of it, something which will never happen, and then the Congress will have to approve of it, which will not happen in today's political climate. The chances that California will split up into two, let alone into six states, are lower than the chances of my feisty, evil black cat becoming gentle, even-tempered, and polka-dotted.
It's really quite a simple choice: Life, Death, or Los Angeles.