Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

SoylentNews is people

posted by LaminatorX on Wednesday July 23 2014, @09:23AM   Printer-friendly
from the Love-it-or-Leave-it dept.

Amazon's started a "Pay to Quit" program where full-time employees are offered up to $5,000 to leave the company (to ensure the remaining workforce is truly motivated). Jeff Bezos revealed the perk in a letter to shareholders, while also announcing that Amazon is welcoming tourists into its fulfillment centers in 6 different U.S. states. But one Seattle blog describes the move as "obviously an attempt to counter all the bad press that Amazon's warehouses have gotten over the past year," linking to an undercover BBC investigation and stories about Amazon's arrival in a former coal-mining town. And Gawker has begun soliciting new horror stories from Amazon employees. ("You literally must re-interview for your position...constantly. It comes up at least every three months...")

NOTE: This story is a follow-up to one we posted on April 13: Amazon Will Pay Employees Up To $5,000 For Quitting

Related Stories

Amazon Will Pay Employees Up To $5,000 For Quitting 29 comments

Times.com is the first one to report:

In the company's annual letter to shareholders, Amazon chief Jeff Bezos revealed what has to be the most counterintuitive personnel policy in corporate America today: If an employee isn't happy working at the online retail giant, they can earn up to $5,000 just for quitting.

Pay To Quit started at Amazon-owned Zappos, and the parent company adopted the concept for its fulfillment centers...
In a Harvard Business Review blog post examining this practice at Zappos back in 2008, author and Fast Company co-founder Bill Taylor says the quit money (it was $1,000 per employee back then) worked out costing less than the online shoe retailer would have lost if unmotivated employees put the brakes on its fast-paced corporate culture.

Would you like to see the practice adopted by your current employer? I wouldn't, yet.

This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
Display Options Threshold/Breakthrough Mark All as Read Mark All as Unread
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 23 2014, @09:42AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 23 2014, @09:42AM (#72683)

    Survival of the meekest most desperate workers who will do absolutely anything to get that paycheck.

  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Rivenaleem on Wednesday July 23 2014, @10:42AM

    by Rivenaleem (3400) on Wednesday July 23 2014, @10:42AM (#72705)

    This is just like what much of the civilised world call "Voluntary Redundancy". You see, when your a permanent employee, and your role becomes redundant, you get a payment based on years of service. Sometimes, when a company is downsizing, it will offer a period of voluntary redundancy, before forced (or involuntary) redundancy, so that it can shed people who'd rather be elsewhere, and keep those who want to stay.

    I guess this comes out of having right-to-work law in the states.

    • (Score: 2) by Rivenaleem on Wednesday July 23 2014, @10:44AM

      by Rivenaleem (3400) on Wednesday July 23 2014, @10:44AM (#72706)

      Dammit, got my laws mixed up, that should have read at-will law, not right-to-work.

      • (Score: 2) by strattitarius on Wednesday July 23 2014, @02:23PM

        by strattitarius (3191) on Wednesday July 23 2014, @02:23PM (#72764) Journal
        No, you got it right. It's often referred to as "right-to-work" and although that connotes that workers have some sort of "rights" to their job, what it actually means is "at-will" or that either side can terminate employment for any reason* at any time.

        * = technically some things are protected such as religion, class, race, etc. However since you can fire them for wearing green socks, it's really, really hard to prove they fired your for one of the protected classes.
        --
        Slashdot Beta Sucks. Soylent Alpha Rules. News at 11.
        • (Score: 1) by GeminiDomino on Wednesday July 23 2014, @02:42PM

          by GeminiDomino (661) on Wednesday July 23 2014, @02:42PM (#72774)

          "At will" is what you said: either party (employer or employee) may sever employment at any time for any non-protected reason.

          "Right to work" is related to unions, among other things: In-right-to work states, union members cannot be (legally) penalized for working (strike breaking, e.g.), nor forced to join a union to keep employment ("union shops").

          Of course, with all the screwing around we can come to expect from lawmakers, the two tend to knot up into a throbbing mass of coiling tendrils, like some Lovecraftian nightmare, until no one really knows WTF is going on, but the money keeps flowing where they want it to.

          --
          "We've been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of our culture"
    • (Score: 2) by hubie on Wednesday July 23 2014, @11:31AM

      by hubie (1068) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday July 23 2014, @11:31AM (#72713) Journal

      No, this practice isn't unusual in the US. Another way to voluntarily reduce the workforce is to offer early retirement whereby certain conditions that would normally need to be met for the person to retire, such as reaching a minimum age, are waived so that the person can retire early. Or, they offer a payout to a person who is eligible to retire, but hasn't, to encourage them to leave. I can't speak to the working conditions at Amazon mentioned in other posts, but this practice of paying people to leave is not very surprising to me as a story.

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by VLM on Wednesday July 23 2014, @11:33AM

      by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday July 23 2014, @11:33AM (#72715)

      "so that it can shed people who'd rather be elsewhere"

      Its cheaper for labor costs and unemployment claims to pay some fraction of fired people $5K and the rest UI claims, vs UI claims for everyone.

      As a forward thinking statement usually this means the company is expecting to dramatically shrink, although in the linked articles what it really means is everyone already knows Amazon is a crappy place to work so turnover is extremely high, so they're not necessarily expecting to downsize, they could also be expecting to keep doing BAU.

      Note that the linked article explains it sucks about as much as working retail. Its retail, online. What do you expect? If you sold cheezeburgers, on the internet, it would still fundamentally be flippin burgers. I'm not saying its good to be immoral or unethical or inhumane, but when you stack rank employers, retailers like Amazon will always end up being the worst possible place to work.

      How much cutting edge innovation do you need in 2014 to implement "put some stuff in a box and ship it" or "download a file to a computer and display/play it" We're not exactly talking about building a fusion reactor here.

      • (Score: 1) by fadrian on Wednesday July 23 2014, @03:25PM

        by fadrian (3194) on Wednesday July 23 2014, @03:25PM (#72792) Homepage

        How much cutting edge innovation do you need in 2014 to implement "put some stuff in a box and ship it" or "download a file to a computer and display/play it" We're not exactly talking about building a fusion reactor here.

        Although I agree that, by and large, Amazon is a fairly ruthless employer, I have to take issue with this last paragraph. Amazon's business model may be as simple to describe as that, but I could also describe IBM's business model as sticking stupid people in suits to convince other stupid people in suits to pay them money for crappy code written by stupid foreign people and maybe run the computers for them, too (N.B.: I mean no disrespect to any foreign culture involved. By this I simply mean that it is more likely that the more stupid among the tech variety of your people - and you know as well as I do that they exist - are more likely to be working for IBM). I mean, things can be overly simplified. And with any company of that size, scale is everything. It's the difference between piloting a rowboat (what you described) and a supertanker. At that size, it's never simple.

        So, yeah... Amazon... I got a really bad case of the love-hate thing with them. I'm pretty sure I'd find working there "challenging" (read probably sort of awful), but I don't ever think for a second that what they do is simple.

        --
        That is all.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 25 2014, @06:39AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 25 2014, @06:39AM (#73637)

      I don't believe this is the case because Amazon is not downsizing. Quite the opposite, they are growing as fast as they can. The reason given - and Amazon is not the only tech company that has said this, nor the first to actually make the offer - is that if you are willing to take the offer, you probably aren't dedicated enough to work for them.

  • (Score: 5, Informative) by cafebabe on Wednesday July 23 2014, @10:49AM

    by cafebabe (894) on Wednesday July 23 2014, @10:49AM (#72707) Journal

    Richard Stallman advises people to shop elsewhere due to worker exploitation, tax avoidance, DRM and many other reasons [stallman.org].

    I stand in solidarity with Richard Stallman and I certainly wouldn't host with a company which cut off Wikileaks [theguardian.com].

    --
    1702845791×2
    • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 23 2014, @02:16PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 23 2014, @02:16PM (#72758)

      I'd love to get off Amazon.

      What are you folks using instead? I realize not every online retailer is going to have the breadth of Amazon's offerings (so maybe there's not a single site that would serve as a drop-in replacement) but does anyone have recommendations for alternatives? Any reasonably priced, ethical online place to try?

      Would love to get some ideas.

      • (Score: 3, Informative) by Oligonicella on Wednesday July 23 2014, @03:38PM

        by Oligonicella (4169) on Wednesday July 23 2014, @03:38PM (#72800)

        Many companies will sell directly. I bought my favorite keyboard through Amazon. I bought a backup directly.

      • (Score: 2, Informative) by Cactus on Wednesday July 23 2014, @04:30PM

        by Cactus (32) on Wednesday July 23 2014, @04:30PM (#72824) Journal

        The alternatives to Amazon services are pretty well known, I think. Post specifics on what you use and maybe someone here can offer advice on other service providers.

        As for their retail, I really only used them for books and electronics. NewEgg is starting to get its prices more in line with Amazon now, and I'll usually double check TigerDirect and eBay too. As for books: I still end up needing Amazon as a last resort sometimes. I usually look at the local used bookstores 1st, then ebay, then check with publishers to see if they will sell direct. A few Google searches should be able to point you towards local indie bookstores, too. They usually know where to get a hold of specialty stuff.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 23 2014, @06:44PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 23 2014, @06:44PM (#72897)

          Thanks for the reply. You have good questions.

          Books: I use abebooks for used titles, which I typically prefer since tech books depreciate so quickly. Moreover, some of the older editions are "evergreen" (e.g. Knuth's stuff, Djikstra, K&R etc.) and I don't mind buying an older edition.

          For new books however, does Amazon usually charge retail (the way local booksellers tend to?) I haven't done any comparison shopping, but I've always operated under the assumption that Amazon was typically cheaper than buying direct. I could be wrong here...

          Other Media: I have no solution for DVDs or music CDs. Are there any good places for this?

          I guess what would be interesting would be a way to have a unified shopping experience, where I can log in, throw some books and a CD into a cart, then pass my laptop to my wife who can then add some kid's toys and a shirt...then hit 'buy now' -- without using Amazon. Hmm.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 23 2014, @07:29PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 23 2014, @07:29PM (#72927)

            (Replying to my own post)

            I wonder if this is what I'm looking for:

            http://www.rakuten.com/ [rakuten.com]

          • (Score: 1) by Cactus on Wednesday July 23 2014, @07:39PM

            by Cactus (32) on Wednesday July 23 2014, @07:39PM (#72933) Journal

            AbeBooks is new to me, I'll have a look at them when I have a few more minutes.
            I haven't purchased physical movies or music in ages. I wouldn't know what to recommend for that.

            >I guess what would be interesting would be a way to have a unified shopping experience, where I can log in, throw some books and a CD into a
            >cart, then pass my laptop to my wife who can then add some kid's toys and a shirt...then hit 'buy now' -- without using Amazon. Hmm.

            The only way I can imagine this happening w/o Amazon is going to another major retailer; Wal-Mart or something similar. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a place online that brings a bunch of smaller shops together in just this way, but I don't know what it is. I think eBay is trying to do something , but I doubt it's quite as unified as Amazons marketplace is.

            • (Score: 1) by anubi on Thursday July 24 2014, @04:52AM

              by anubi (2828) on Thursday July 24 2014, @04:52AM (#73132) Journal

              Another book site for you is Alibris [alibris.com]

              I use them a lot...

              --
              "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
          • (Score: 2) by cafebabe on Thursday August 07 2014, @07:10PM

            by cafebabe (894) on Thursday August 07 2014, @07:10PM (#78564) Journal
      • (Score: 2) by Magic Oddball on Thursday July 24 2014, @02:22AM

        by Magic Oddball (3847) on Thursday July 24 2014, @02:22AM (#73084) Journal

        I used to be a huge Amazon fan, but I largely stopped buying things there last year after I discovered that it no longer even pretends to care if buyers are being ripped off. Telling Amazon that sellers & affiliates are sending counterfeits (like in this customer gallery of one counterfeit cable [amazon.com]) has no effect: all the company does is pass the complaint on to the seller, even if the seller isn't replying to email.

        Anyway, my solution so far has been to use eBay, as it functions more like a fixed-price store than an auction these days, prices are usually lower than on Amazon, and SquareTrade insurance (which is awesome) is available on a lot of items. Most importantly, IMHO, eBay is now very aggressive about making sure buyers get a refund if the item doesn't show up, is broken, or not quite as described.

        • (Score: 2) by evilviper on Thursday July 24 2014, @06:53AM

          by evilviper (1760) on Thursday July 24 2014, @06:53AM (#73148) Homepage Journal

          Telling Amazon that sellers & affiliates are sending counterfeits (like in this customer gallery of one counterfeit cable) has no effect

          Getting a generic cable instead of a name-brand unit is absolutely NOTHING on the spectrum of problems.

          Here's a blatantly fraudulent 32GB SD card (2GB card with hacked firmware):

          http://www.amazon.com/dp/B006PJUO6K [amazon.com]

          Or even worse, those 120V/230V electric coffee-cup immersion heaters, which are very convenient for travelers, but are built like crap, and are delivering dangerous electric shocks to many customers, and are likely to kill someone sooner or later:

          http://www.amazon.com/review/R1ORT89UP3XT19 [amazon.com]

          --
          Hydrogen cyanide is a delicious and necessary part of the human diet.
  • (Score: 5, Informative) by PizzaRollPlinkett on Wednesday July 23 2014, @11:02AM

    by PizzaRollPlinkett (4512) on Wednesday July 23 2014, @11:02AM (#72710)

    Amazon trolls me on LinkedIn every couple of months or so. It's never the same recruiter twice, as if each recruiter thinks she came up with the idea of trolling on LinkedIn herself and it had never been done before.

    Amazon (usually) outsources recruiting to a third party. Usually not the same one. So their pitch is you have to beg a third party for the opportunity to beg Amazon for a job. You must travel to their recruitment event on your own dime. You also have to go take assessment tests. Look, I've been around two decades and have proved myself. They obviously don't even look at your LinkedIn profile or have any idea who you are or that they just trolled you a couple of months ago. The whole process is dehumanizing and humiliating - but then to work for a company that treats employees like disposable garbage, I guess that's what they're looking for? (I've never heard anything good about working at Amazon as a software developer. They have a reputation as a burnout body shop.)

    Amazon recruiter troll hall of shame:

    - Jul 8, 2014: Kyle Burke, Technical Placement Consultant at VitalSource Staffing, LLC
    - May 21, 2014: Daniel Claytor, Senior Engineering Recruiter at Expedia, Inc.
    - Feb 12, 2014: Peter Anderson, Technical Recruiter at Amazon
    - Dec 9, 2013: Megan Pepe, Technical Recruiter at Andiamo Partners

    I don't have time to go back any farther in my InMail history.

    Also: I think Amazon is an unethical company that does unethical things, and would never work there.

    --
    (E-mail me if you want a pizza roll!)
    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Thexalon on Wednesday July 23 2014, @01:21PM

      by Thexalon (636) on Wednesday July 23 2014, @01:21PM (#72746)

      I've never heard anything good about working at Amazon as a software developer. They have a reputation as a burnout body shop.

      This is hardly surprising: In their early years, they basically had a philosophy of "burn through money and people as quickly as possible to get market control before competitors step in". There's no reason to think they would change that culture, given how well that has worked out for management.

      If you want to work for a company that treats its people well, look for these characteristics:
      1. Started up in an established market (which means they had to beat competitors with superior pricing or service)
      2. ... without a lot of capital (which equals investors that want quick return)
      3. ... that is profitable (so management isn't under really heavy pressure)
      4. ... that don't promise you the moon (which means they aren't lying too much to you during the interview)
      5. ... but do offer decent pay and benefits (which means they aren't cheapskates)

      Those kind of companies exist, but you have to really hunt them down because they aren't hiring all that often because their people are sticking around for years.

      --
      The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
  • (Score: 1) by skater on Wednesday July 23 2014, @12:59PM

    by skater (4342) on Wednesday July 23 2014, @12:59PM (#72741) Journal

    ("You literally must re-interview for your position...constantly. It comes up at least every three months...")

    If this is true, it's stupid for a reason aside from morale problems: How much management and employee time is wasted preparing, conducting, and evaluating these interviews? A lot! This is why I wonder if it's really true, or if there's more to the story on that claim.

    • (Score: 1) by fadrian on Wednesday July 23 2014, @03:38PM

      by fadrian (3194) on Wednesday July 23 2014, @03:38PM (#72799) Homepage

      I doubt they do this with all positions. However, if you're running a business that is hiring large numbers of people to do low-skill, routinized, easily-trained work, including sharp seasonal ups and downs, in an employment regime where unemployment is high, a burn-and-churn philosophy is going to maximize profits with little downside. And, as you are already churning through employees, continually training and adjusting to continual departures, making people re-apply for jobs might be easier and more efficient than setting up job ladders, review processes, etc. for the few who do stay long-term.

      I'm not saying it's desirable (especially for the poor bastard who has to re-apply for his shitty job every three months), but it is a rational and probably cost-minimizing move on the part of a company in this business.

      --
      That is all.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 25 2014, @06:56AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 25 2014, @06:56AM (#73644)

      As a former Amazon employee, I never experienced this nor saw nor heard of it, at least among the software developers. (I can't speak to what goes on in fulfillment, purchasing, marketing, etc.) As far as I can tell, this - if true - was simply the actions of a toxic manager who preferred to keep his employees on edge.

      Now, what they do have - much like most other large companies - are recurring performance reviews. These have some of the characteristics of interviews (all the bad characteristics), and IMO, one of the best reasons to avoid working at large companies is to not have to do performance reviews, which are like the sociopath's playground. That said, I would still rather have Amazon's performance review process than Microsoft's.

      Of course, Amazon is a high-pressure environment. Higher pressure even than Google, I think. Only some startups and maybe Tesla are equal there. That doesn't mean it's a bad job. Just a hard one.

  • (Score: 2, Insightful) by looorg on Wednesday July 23 2014, @02:08PM

    by looorg (578) on Wednesday July 23 2014, @02:08PM (#72757)

    Quit and get 1-2 months salary, i'm guessing since I have no clue what Amazon pays per month)? That is only a good deal if you have another job lined up. So I'm not really sure in what world this would be a good deal besides in that mentioned exception.

    It will keep the truly motivated and people that want to be working for Amazon? More like it will keep the people around that have no other, or better, options.

    • (Score: 2) by bob_super on Wednesday July 23 2014, @04:26PM

      by bob_super (1357) on Wednesday July 23 2014, @04:26PM (#72820)

      > More like it will keep the people around that have no other, or better, options.

      Like every other job out there?

      • (Score: 1) by looorg on Wednesday July 23 2014, @05:30PM

        by looorg (578) on Wednesday July 23 2014, @05:30PM (#72863)

        Not necessarily. I'm sure there are a lot of people out there that actually like their current job and wouldn't want another one. Even if there are "better" jobs out there. Sure they probably wouldn't mind better pay and more perks but they still find their current job engaging and suitable and see no point in swapping or getting another one.

  • (Score: 2) by Theophrastus on Wednesday July 23 2014, @05:25PM

    by Theophrastus (4044) on Wednesday July 23 2014, @05:25PM (#72855)

    seriously, Bezos wants to be the last 'human' employed at amazon. (well, you can see his point, can't you? humans are nothing but needy annoyances really. "hey, gimme more time off!" "ooo new shiny thing i'd like to buy but i need higher wages!" "lets unionize!" "can i get that new ebook for 20% less"? disgustingz!)

    • (Score: 2) by Theophrastus on Wednesday July 23 2014, @05:27PM

      by Theophrastus (4044) on Wednesday July 23 2014, @05:27PM (#72859)

      dagnabbit. soylentnew edit window done ate my reference link! Army of robots to invade Amazon warehouses [cnn.com]

    • (Score: 2) by evilviper on Thursday July 24 2014, @07:16AM

      by evilviper (1760) on Thursday July 24 2014, @07:16AM (#73156) Homepage Journal

      Bezos wants to be the last 'human' employed at amazon.

      Zappos invented the practice, and they're a very employee-centric company that is never going automate their jobs.

      The idea is a good one... give people a small bonus for leaving on good terms, and dangling a carrot for potential employees, so they'll jump at an opportunity to work there, even if they're not so sure it's a perfect fit for them.

      --
      Hydrogen cyanide is a delicious and necessary part of the human diet.