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posted by janrinok on Friday July 25 2014, @09:01PM   Printer-friendly
from the fffix-mmy-kkkys-ppppplas dept.

I'm looking for suggestions for a new keyboard for my PC.

Background: Over the years, I've used Teletype Model 38, DEC VT100, IBM Model M, and at least 20 other keyboards that came with whatever machine I was working with at the time.

My current, membrane, keyboard was inexpensive but after a couple years is already starting to occasionally drp out key presses and at other times rrrepeat them.

It would need to work with my current, IBM compatible, computer so a USB or wireless connection is necessary. A plus would be the ability in the future to use it with a tablet or mobile phone.

So, I'm looking for a new keyboard. I liked the Model M as there was no question when a key was pressed, but I'd prefer something quieter, and most importantly, with a much lighter touch. I am not interested in fancy lights or extra gaming keys, just a good, reasonably-priced keyboard.

I've read reports that Cherry and Razer have come out with mechanical switch keyboards but have not had an opportunity to try any of them. So, what say you fellow Soylents? Which keyboard(s) have you used and would recommend? (Ones to avoid would be welcome, too.)

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  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Subsentient on Friday July 25 2014, @09:08PM

    by Subsentient (1111) on Friday July 25 2014, @09:08PM (#73934) Homepage Journal

    I am typing this on a recycled Korean plastic cheapo, that just happens to be the best membrane keyboard I ever knew. It's $5, the surface is flat and the keys are wide and satisfying to click. I type faster on this cheap little wonder than any other keyboard.

    http://www.rakuten.com/prod/imicro-basic-usb-english-keyboard-cable-black-retail-usb-english/216238242.html [rakuten.com]

    --
    "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." -Jiddu Krishnamurti
    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Snow on Friday July 25 2014, @09:47PM

      by Snow (1601) on Friday July 25 2014, @09:47PM (#73956) Journal

      According to the supplied link, your keyboard sucks!!

      -- Small backspace key
      -- non standard Home/end key cluster
      -- Old school, large return/enter key

      • (Score: 2) by Subsentient on Saturday July 26 2014, @01:25AM

        by Subsentient (1111) on Saturday July 26 2014, @01:25AM (#74049) Homepage Journal

        Yes, I'm afraid the backspace is sub-optimal, but I get used to it very quickly. I rather like the large return key. I never even noticed the home/end key problem. Still, my advice stands, this cheap little keyboard is very comfortable. I've used a lot of keyboards, this beats them all so far. The keys go down easily with good travel and a satisfying yet not deafening noise. The accuracy is very high compared to what I usually get on a keyboard and touch-typing becomes much easier, which is how I prefer to do it anyways.

        --
        "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." -Jiddu Krishnamurti
        • (Score: 2) by Subsentient on Saturday July 26 2014, @01:28AM

          by Subsentient (1111) on Saturday July 26 2014, @01:28AM (#74051) Homepage Journal

          I might mention that the keyboard came to me with a refurbished cheapo Dell business desktop from '09. I saw the cheap plastic and immediately decided "I was going to use the good keyboard", but something convinced me to give this one a try and I'm glad I did.

          --
          "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." -Jiddu Krishnamurti
      • (Score: 2) by mojo chan on Saturday July 26 2014, @06:16PM

        by mojo chan (266) on Saturday July 26 2014, @06:16PM (#74225)

        That is a standard CJK (Chinese, Japanese, Korean) layout. The extra blank keys are used for things in those languages. People who type in those languages consider that to be the standard layout.

        --
        const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
    • (Score: 2) by davester666 on Saturday July 26 2014, @06:55AM

      by davester666 (155) on Saturday July 26 2014, @06:55AM (#74110)

      I used the Microsoft Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000 for years and liked it a lot.

      Recently switched to Microsoft Sculpt Ergonomic Desktop (wireless keyboard + mouse [requires included wireless usb dongle]), types well, but still taking some time getting used to using the arrow keys and home/end/pgup/pgdown keys on the right side. Had to throw the mouse away because it is for right-handed people only.

      • (Score: 2) by No.Limit on Saturday July 26 2014, @09:15AM

        by No.Limit (1965) on Saturday July 26 2014, @09:15AM (#74130)

        I'm currently using the MS natural ergonomic keyboard 4000 [microsoft.com]. I believe it's one of the cheapest ergonomic keyboards [wikipedia.org].

        It has a pretty soft touch and is very silent. I find the split layout very comfortable and enjoy it quite a lot (though I've never had trouble with normal keyboards either). It has some useful special keys (media keys etc) which I regularly use, for example the calculator button is pretty nice.

        However, the printed letters on the keys start to fade quicker than on other keyboards (especially wasd, no idea why its those keys ;)
        Also, while the arm rests are nice they quickly get sweaty, it's not a huge problem but I'd categorize it as another drawback.

  • (Score: 1) by solozerk on Friday July 25 2014, @09:15PM

    by solozerk (382) on Friday July 25 2014, @09:15PM (#73935)

    I currently use a Razer Blackwidow [razerzone.com] for development. It has a great feel when typing, and a slightly lighter touch than an old model M. However, if you want something quiet, it definitely won't do: it is quite noisy - think typewriter.

    Moreover, I don't know what it's worth when it comes to durability (only had it for six month) - I had some Razer gear that lasted for years yet at the same time some other stuff from the same brand gave out after only 1 or 2 years of use. Finally, I suspect it is quite overpriced (wasn't an issue for me - bought it with my company - but I suspect there must exist some unknown, cheap brands with a similar level of quality and a lot cheaper).

    • (Score: 2) by Snow on Friday July 25 2014, @09:44PM

      by Snow (1601) on Friday July 25 2014, @09:44PM (#73954) Journal

      I got one of these too. I found the keys to be slightly narrower than a standard keyboard and that took a little to get used to, but it's not a problem now. I can type pretty good on it, but it is definately noisy. I'd bring it into work, but it would annoy 1/2 the floor. When at home, and the wife is in bed, I'm worried about waking her up with the racket.

      I had a backlit version, and the backlighting no longer works. It only worked for about 3 months. That was kind of a bummer as this keyboard cost me over $100 CDN. Despite the backlight dying (which is apperantly not that uncommon), and the racket that it makes, I would recommend it for home use.

    • (Score: 1) by Adamsjas on Friday July 25 2014, @10:43PM

      by Adamsjas (4507) on Friday July 25 2014, @10:43PM (#73979)

      I like noisy. Hey, I'm working over here!

      Membranes often don't give any indication if the key fired or not, and since I look at paper while typing (not the screen, and not the keyboard), I like that clikity clack.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 26 2014, @12:04AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 26 2014, @12:04AM (#74018)

      I also have a Razer Blackwidow, and although I love the feel, there are a couple of things I don't like about it.

      It is loud. Not as loud as the Model M, but still loud enough to be annoying. For awhile, when I was doing a lot of talking on the phone or Skype while using my computer, I left a second, quiet keyboard plugged in and switched to that whenever I needed to talk/listen to someone. This was while I was working at home (alone). I wouldn't even think of bringing this keyboard into a common office area.

      The font used on the keys is ugly. Since I touch type, it doesn't bother me that much.

      The cable is too long, too thick and too stiff (no jokes, please).

      It has two USB connectors at the end of the cable; one of them is used as an extension cable for a built-in USB socket in the keyboard. Nice feature, but it would be better if it were a USB hub, so the far end of the cable only needed a single plug.

      Worst of all: the extra keys on the left side are (as far as I've been able to tell) useless unless you install some Windows-only software that saves your keyboard configuration to the "cloud". As far as I've been able to tell, the keys don't send scan-codes at all (presumably unless the proprietary software turns them on somehow).

      I don't regret getting the keyboard, but next time I would definitely pick a different one, without the "features" of this "gaming" keyboard, and, if possible, one that was less noisy while keeping a similar tactile feedback.

      YMMV

      • (Score: 1) by solozerk on Saturday July 26 2014, @02:41AM

        by solozerk (382) on Saturday July 26 2014, @02:41AM (#74059)

        About those extra macro keys on the left: see this [superuser.com] (first answer - the script does work - using it on my debian).

        Agreed on the noise - we have an open space of four, all of us have the same keyboard, and we definitely can tell when someone is typing. You get used to it though. As for the font, I kind of like it but I agree they could've gone with a more traditional one.

        In any case, it still is a great keyboard (and I especially like the microphone/headset plug holes on the side for those short cable headphones) - but as I said I'm pretty sure there are better options out there.

    • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday July 26 2014, @12:28AM

      by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Saturday July 26 2014, @12:28AM (#74031) Homepage Journal

      If you don't like the noisy, go for a Razer Blackwidow Stealth. They use the orange switches that replaced the browns and still have the mechanical bump but no click. I'm getting one with the green switches here in the next few weeks to replace mine that's dying. No backlighting for me though. Just not worth the extra $60 to me.

      --
      My rights don't end where your fear begins.
  • (Score: 2, Interesting) by modest on Friday July 25 2014, @09:17PM

    by modest (3494) on Friday July 25 2014, @09:17PM (#73936)

    I love my Unicomp [pckeyboard.com], the current-day Model M in all of it's clacking glory.

    If you need quieter, but liked the tactical feel of a key-press then check out any keyboard with Cherry brown switches.

    There are way more flavors of Cherry switches that I haven't tried though. If you've got anxiety about getting a keyboard that has exactly-right weight and feel then around at your local Linux user group or computer-related Meetup to see if anyone can bring in their keyboard for you to get a feel.

    • (Score: 2) by frojack on Friday July 25 2014, @10:54PM

      by frojack (1554) on Friday July 25 2014, @10:54PM (#73983) Journal

      So much promise, I was excited the see a company that actually KNEW where the Function Keys belong (on the left) but alas, upon zooming in, I see that left column in the 122key models are a collection of odds and ends and not true function keys.

      /me: holds on tighter to my clacky Northgate Omni Key Ultra.

      --
      No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 26 2014, @01:10AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 26 2014, @01:10AM (#74044)

        They could probably make one for you by request. Unicomp does sell custom keyboards.

      • (Score: 1) by modest on Saturday July 26 2014, @04:50PM

        by modest (3494) on Saturday July 26 2014, @04:50PM (#74200)

        AC's correct. They respond quickly to inquiries and do customizations for a fee. See if they can help you out.

        I'm curious where the design for function keys on the left came from. Awkward in my opinion, but that's because I was raised on what most people consider the standard 101/102/103/104 setup.

        • (Score: 2) by frojack on Saturday July 26 2014, @07:18PM

          by frojack (1554) on Saturday July 26 2014, @07:18PM (#74245) Journal

          PC, PC/XT, and AT keyboards [wikipedia.org] featured this layout, and those were pretty much the first common use of Function Keys for the masses. (Yes they existed before, but these machines put them within everybody's reach). The PC department at IBM was busy trying to take business from the mainframe group, where the 2379 keyboard was king [wikimedia.org]. So they didn't want to deviate too much from what was common in that world.

          So, yeah, I'm a old geezer. Guilty as charged.

          In a text based world when mice weren't king, function keys were admittedly more important than they are today, and most applications used them. Now days, windows takes over functionality of most function keys and assigns them to standardized tasks.

          Side location was chosen because your left hand can drift over there by feel and find the right key, often without losing your "home-row" position. Just about nobody can find the right Fkey when they are across the top by feel, you always have to look), and even large hands have to abandon the home row to reach these.

          My main programming editor is set up to use function keys extensively, so I am pretty dependent on it, and have a stash of Northgate [wikipedia.org] keyboards that I use daily or as parts donors.

          --
          No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
          • (Score: 1) by modest on Sunday July 27 2014, @04:00PM

            by modest (3494) on Sunday July 27 2014, @04:00PM (#74405)

            Informative, thanks. I had the feeling the answer sat somewhere in the distant past (though, not too far from where I picked things up ;^).

  • (Score: 2) by Appalbarry on Friday July 25 2014, @09:17PM

    by Appalbarry (66) on Friday July 25 2014, @09:17PM (#73938) Journal

    I used to buy cheapo no-name keyboards and mice, but for years I've opted for whatever full sized Logitech keyboard [logitech.com] was on sale. I don't believe I've paid more than $30 for keyboard, or $50 for a keyboard/mouse combo.

    For me they "just work", and I find that they keys are about right for my three fingered typing style. Flat chiclet type keyboards just lead to mistakes for me.

    I especially like wireless keyboard and mice - it just makes life SOOOO much easier.

    And yeah, I've never used any of the gamer/internet/media programmable keys. I just want five rows of keys, plus a number pad and good navigation keys.

    • (Score: 2) by DrMag on Friday July 25 2014, @09:31PM

      by DrMag (1860) on Friday July 25 2014, @09:31PM (#73948)

      I'd upvote Logitech as well. In particular, look for one with a Unifying Receiver, as it lets you use just one USB port for a keyboard and mouse (assuming the mouse is a Logitech that works with the receiver too) instead of two. (I know there are other one-porters out there, but I've been very impressed with the quality of my Logitech mouse and keyboard. Besides, this one will control up to 6 devices at once... if you ever have a need for that.)

      This [logitech.com] is the one I've been using; it's a bit smaller, more like a laptop keyboard, but they have full-size ones as well that are similar.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 26 2014, @08:31AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 26 2014, @08:31AM (#74123)

      I was after a keyboard, went into a shop, and found one that wasn't a wireless keyboard or a multi-hundred dollar gaming keyboard, and it was a Logitech.

      What they failed to tell me was that some fucking numbnuts had this genius idea to make all the F-keys into the special keys that you need the fn button for, and all the alternate functions you might never use are the standard for the keyboard.

      So, for example, power off is on the same button as f12, f11 (maximise browser) is volume up (I think, not using it at the moment), and so forth.

      Stupidest idea I've ever come seen.

    • (Score: 2) by No.Limit on Saturday July 26 2014, @09:06AM

      by No.Limit (1965) on Saturday July 26 2014, @09:06AM (#74128)

      Yea, logitech produces good keyboards and mice. I still use my mx518 after well over 7 years.

  • (Score: 2) by lajos on Friday July 25 2014, @09:17PM

    by lajos (528) on Friday July 25 2014, @09:17PM (#73939)

    Logitech Illuminated Keyboard K740. Awesome key action, backlit and quiet.

  • (Score: 3, Informative) by mckwant on Friday July 25 2014, @09:25PM

    by mckwant (4541) on Friday July 25 2014, @09:25PM (#73946)

    Not sure if the OP cares, but if anybody's found anything good that splits in the middle, I'm all ears.

    Best ever: http://deskthority.net/wiki/IBM_Adjustable_Keyboard [deskthority.net]
    Everything else is a pale substitute.

    Pale, but mostly tolerable, substitutes:
    Kinesis Freestyle (http://www.amazon.com/Kinesis-Freestyle-Solo-Ergonomic-Keyboard/dp/B0016A0RLA)
    GoldTouch (http://www.amazon.com/KeyOvation-Goldtouch-Adjustable-Keyboard-QWERTY/dp/B0006VJE82)

    Both are a little soft (the GoldTouch especially), but I've been using the Freestyle at work for a few years now.

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by dwmoody on Friday July 25 2014, @10:20PM

      by dwmoody (1661) on Friday July 25 2014, @10:20PM (#73971) Homepage

      The ErgoDox [ergodox.org] is the best looking one I've found, although it appears that it's only available in kit and fully DIY form.

  • (Score: 5, Informative) by gallondr00nk on Friday July 25 2014, @09:28PM

    by gallondr00nk (392) on Friday July 25 2014, @09:28PM (#73947)

    I've got a couple, both membrane rather than clicky. I can't speak for the current models, but the late 80's ones I have are wonderful. Light actuation while still having feedback.

    If you're looking for mechanical Cherry keyboards (or brands that use Cherry MX switches), there's a great guide to all of the different switches used here [keyboardco.com].

  • (Score: 5, Interesting) by evilviper on Friday July 25 2014, @09:35PM

    by evilviper (1760) on Friday July 25 2014, @09:35PM (#73949) Homepage Journal

    Over my couple decades of extensive typing, I've come to find there are two critically important traits to low hand/wrist stress and speed:

    1) The keyboard should be flat or just slightly decline (NEVER inclined) and rise just 0.5 inches above the table your wrists wrest on.

    2) NO NUMPAD. The reduced distance to reach the mouse is a HUGE pain reliever and speed advantage.

    Unfortunately, I've not found many good ones.

    The Typematrix line works fine, but is expensive, old/cheap one is buggy (read the fine print), and not as well-built as you'd expect for the money spent.

    Instead I've been using the VPI SS (super-slim) keyboards for about 7 years now. They're very tough (nice steel back), layout comes close to great, and are pretty inexpensive, but seem to no longer actually be available (listed on site, but out-of-stock for a long time now). See top item here:

    http://www.vpi.us/promotions/new-keyboard-mini.html [www.vpi.us]

    They seem to be available from a 3rd party website, but comes with ridiculous shipping charges... I actually had a big 100+ unit order ready to go right about when they went out of stock.

    --
    Hydrogen cyanide is a delicious and necessary part of the human diet.
    • (Score: 2) by bugamn on Saturday July 26 2014, @07:48PM

      by bugamn (1017) on Saturday July 26 2014, @07:48PM (#74253)

      If you miss the numpad, maybe you could consider a http://ulva.com/images/LeftHandKeyboardBlack901x676.jpg [ulva.com] left-hand keyboard?

      I have been using one for some time and I find it wonderful. My right hand can quickly go to the mouse as needed, while my left hand uses the numpad, and both can work together when filling forms, usually at the banking sites.

    • (Score: 2) by Rune of Doom on Monday July 28 2014, @05:03AM

      by Rune of Doom (1392) on Monday July 28 2014, @05:03AM (#74533)

      I couldn't live without my numpad (okay, I can and do on my laptop, but I don't like doing so), but I avoid the extra stretch by using my mouse with my left hand - always have, even though I'm not left-handed or particularly ambidextrous.

  • (Score: 4, Funny) by bob_super on Friday July 25 2014, @09:35PM

    by bob_super (1357) on Friday July 25 2014, @09:35PM (#73950)

    The people at Fry's and Micro Center have laid out all their keyboards to attract the geeks who need to type for a few minutes before deciding.

    A friend pointed out a long time ago that our hands spend more time on keyboard and mouse than on wives and girlfriends, and we usually don't choose those based on pictures and anonymous reviews.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 25 2014, @09:49PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 25 2014, @09:49PM (#73959)

      > we usually don't choose those based on pictures and anonymous reviews

      We don't?

  • (Score: 2) by mrchew1982 on Friday July 25 2014, @09:38PM

    by mrchew1982 (3565) on Friday July 25 2014, @09:38PM (#73952)

    Lead me to pick this one:

    http://smile.amazon.com/Azio-Tri-Color-Backlit-Keyboard-KB505U/dp/B008CXTX7S/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1406324162&sr=8-2&keywords=large+print+keyboard [amazon.com]

    Couldn't be happier, great feel, easy to see keys even in the dark. Oh and most importantly, cheap.

  • (Score: 2) by mojo chan on Friday July 25 2014, @09:42PM

    by mojo chan (266) on Friday July 25 2014, @09:42PM (#73953)

    Try some of the Microsoft keyboards. They are very low impact, laptop style but with more travel and bounce back. I know, M$, but their hardware is actually pretty good.

    --
    const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
  • (Score: 2) by mvar on Friday July 25 2014, @09:45PM

    by mvar (2539) on Friday July 25 2014, @09:45PM (#73955)

    There are two keyboard categories, the ones for those who like to listen to the click-click sound at 03:00am, and the rest. Really there's not much difference, it's all a matter of getting used to each vendor's annoying ideas of placing the \ button somewhere between Enter and the designer's ass, or making the backspace button so tiny you have to aim very carefully to hit it.

    p.s. yes there's that third category of "ergonomic" keyboards which i ignored on purpose, years ago i've owned that Microsoft "natural" keyboard for a couple of months and I vowed I'll learn dvorak before trying one of these shitty things again :P

    • (Score: 2) by Geotti on Saturday July 26 2014, @12:07AM

      by Geotti (1146) on Saturday July 26 2014, @12:07AM (#74021) Journal

      annoying ideas of placing the \ button

      I figure, you're on Windows, or escaping much?

      • (Score: 1) by mvar on Saturday July 26 2014, @12:49PM

        by mvar (2539) on Saturday July 26 2014, @12:49PM (#74160)

        nah i'm on linux but i use | a lot especially at work

  • (Score: 2) by Lagg on Friday July 25 2014, @09:47PM

    by Lagg (105) on Friday July 25 2014, @09:47PM (#73957) Homepage Journal

    I liked the M too but not enough to go buy a nasty, dirty old one from ebay. I was given a Logitech Steel Series (can't remember exact model since I think it's a line) by an employer and it's awesome. It feels really solid and well built and feels great to type on. The size is also nice and compact but not undersized at the same time. It claims to be good for gaming and I guess it is but it's not the kind of keyboard with 10000 redundant keys and stupid gaming buzzwords attached to it. It's just a nice mechanical keyboard, and it also has a rather nifty feature where the left "windows"/meta key acts as a shift key for the media (but really you can bind them to anything, I do) keys on F1-F6 instead of doing the same thing the right one does.

    --
    http://lagg.me [lagg.me] 🗿
    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 25 2014, @11:47PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 25 2014, @11:47PM (#74011)

      A genuine Model M will go through a washing in the dishwasher and come out clean as the day it was made, and still working. I know, I've done it.

      FYI, after washing it, give it a few days to completely dry out before plugging it in. It won't work right until all the water has evaporated.

      • (Score: 2) by Lagg on Saturday July 26 2014, @12:18AM

        by Lagg (105) on Saturday July 26 2014, @12:18AM (#74027) Homepage Journal

        True, but I've always had a problem washing mechanical keyboards. The same can be done with most bubble ones but with mechanical ones it's always seemed wrong to do. Springs rust and stuff can stick to them. I didn't mean literally dirty so much as I don't like used keyboards. Partly for sanitary reasons but mostly because things like the model M tend to be very well used and the keys don't have that same feel to them as they used to.

        --
        http://lagg.me [lagg.me] 🗿
  • (Score: 1) by Buck Feta on Friday July 25 2014, @09:55PM

    by Buck Feta (958) on Friday July 25 2014, @09:55PM (#73961) Journal

    As I understand it Cherry is the leading manufacturer of mechanical keys. You can buy keyboards with various "colors" of Cherry keys, each of which correspond to particular characteristics. Here [keyboardco.com] for a nice overview and specs. I use a Ducky Shine with Cherry Browns, but everybody has their own preferences.

    --
    - fractious political commentary goes here -
    • (Score: 2) by tynin on Friday July 25 2014, @11:03PM

      by tynin (2013) on Friday July 25 2014, @11:03PM (#73987) Journal

      I'm a big fan of the Cherry MX Brown switches as well. I've tried out several others, but I've kept coming back to the brown. It isn't very noisy, and feels wonderful to type for hours or play games. I personally use a Filco Ninja Majestouch-2, but I suspect many of the boards with the same switching would be fine.

  • (Score: 2) by ragequit on Friday July 25 2014, @10:05PM

    by ragequit (44) on Friday July 25 2014, @10:05PM (#73965) Journal

    I've been using the (same) Logitech Cordless Desktop Pro since 2000. After 13 and change years, the only problem I have is the right side of the spacebar is a teeny bit stickier than the left.

    --
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  • (Score: 2) by Oligonicella on Friday July 25 2014, @10:12PM

    by Oligonicella (4169) on Friday July 25 2014, @10:12PM (#73969)

    Verbatim. Great feel, rugged, built in speakers. Tactile and audible feedback and has the profile and build of a solid business style keyboard. Currently around $25 at Amazon. Says it's "Mac" but I have mine on a PC and no problems. I bought another for backup two years ago and it's still in the box. Couldn't recommend higher.

  • (Score: 2, Informative) by dwmoody on Friday July 25 2014, @10:16PM

    by dwmoody (1661) on Friday July 25 2014, @10:16PM (#73970) Homepage

    I've used a number of different mechanical keyboards over the years, with various types of switches. My all-time favorite for typing and coding is the CODE Tenkeyless with Cherry MX Green switches. It was designed by Jeff Atwood of "Coding Horror."

    I made the switch to tenkeyless a while back when I realized that I rarely used the number pad, and having the mouse closer to me was a great boon for comfort and efficiency.

    The Cherry MX Green switches are fairly stiff, but nowhere near as stiff as the Model M. The audible click is there and noticeable, but not particularly loud or obnoxious. I use a keyboard with Greens at work and I have not had any complaints from co-workers about the noise, whereas they would probably lynch me if I tried to use a Model M at work.

    The CODE Tenkeyless is, as I said, my favorite keyboard for typing and coding. I have also been favorably impressed with Leopold and Ducky keyboards.

    I use a Leopold tenkeyless board with Cherry MX Brown switches at home since the Greens are a bit too stiff for gaming in my opinion.

    If you want a cheap starter keyboard to see if you like the switches, there are a number of companies that make cheapish (think $50-$60) keyboards with Cherry MX Blue and Brown switches, such as Monoprice and NewEgg's Rosewill house brand. My advice would be to get one of those with Blue switches and see how you like it, and go from there.

    • (Score: 2) by tibman on Friday July 25 2014, @11:28PM

      by tibman (134) Subscriber Badge on Friday July 25 2014, @11:28PM (#73998)

      Looks nice! What is that cable? I see the computer end is USB with a ps/2 adapter. What is on the keyboard end? They don't show what the socket/plug looks like (hopefully micro).

      --
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      • (Score: 1) by dwmoody on Saturday July 26 2014, @02:44AM

        by dwmoody (1661) on Saturday July 26 2014, @02:44AM (#74060) Homepage

        The CODE keyboard has a micro USB socket, which is a little confusing because my Leopold keyboards all have mini USB sockets.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 25 2014, @10:29PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 25 2014, @10:29PM (#73972)
  • (Score: 3, Informative) by martyb on Friday July 25 2014, @10:38PM

    by martyb (76) Subscriber Badge on Friday July 25 2014, @10:38PM (#73976) Journal

    Many thanks to all who have responded already!

    Unfortunately, there is no Fryes or MicroCenter near me. At best, there's BestBuy and Staples, and I'll be checking things out there. The selections there are, unfortunately, quite limited hence my query to the community.

    I realize, now, that I should have been clearer in what I was seeking:

    • I am not particularly interested in a gaming keyboard.
    • No need for blinky lights (except I appreciate Caps Lock, Scroll Lock, and Num Lock indicators).
    • No need for multimedia controls, either.
    • I'm keyboard-centric and prefer using keystrokes to mouse strokes.

    As for layout, I'm interested in the full windows 104-key layout. So, take a look at the graphic at the extreme bottom of Computer Keyboard [wikipedia.org] on wikipedia.

    From the comment by Buck Feta [soylentnews.org] with a link to: keyboardco [keyboardco.com], it looks like a keyboard using Cherry Brown switches would be ideal.

    Thanks again everyone and please keep the suggestions coming!

    P.S. Any suggestions on connectors and future-proofing? I can use USB at the moment. My current keyboard has a USB dongle that connects the keyboard (and mouse) over 802.11b. I've not used bluetooth but have heard mixed things about them. I'd appreciate any experiences you'd care to share!

    --
    Wit is intellect, dancing.
    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 25 2014, @10:51PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 25 2014, @10:51PM (#73980)

      > As for layout, I'm interested in the full windows 104-key layout.

      In case anyone else is reading this, I really like my minimalist ~68 key "happy hacking" keyboards. [wikipedia.org] Bought 3 of them over ten years ago for various systems in my house and they are all still going strong. These are high-quality keyboards for professional programmers that take up minimal desk space and I don't miss the number pad or other keys at all.

      Here's the amazon listing with reviews. [amazon.com] It's been so long I really don't remember where I bought mine from.

  • (Score: 2) by Marand on Friday July 25 2014, @10:54PM

    by Marand (1081) on Friday July 25 2014, @10:54PM (#73982) Journal

    Roccat [roccat.org] is a good choice for nice hardware with good cross-platform support. I have the Isku, which isn't mechanical, so it's not too noisy but still has a good, solid feel. They also have the mechanical Ryos MK line, which uses Cherry switches, and if you get the MK Pro, you can choose from four switch types to change the feel and sound.

    Yes, they're gaming keyboards with the extra flashy stuff, but it doesn't matter, because they're configurable and the settings are stored in the keyboard itself, so you can set it once and then forget about it. Shortcut bindings, light settings, etc. will work on any computer you attach the keyboard to once they're set. Disable the backlit keys and then bind the extra side and thumb keys to hotkey combinations you use often in whatever software you work with most. Put those extra keys to work for you, they aren't limited to gaming use and can be incredible when used in other programs.

    Don't shy away from the gaming keyboards because they say "gaming" on them. They're a good choice for people that care about the keyboard itself. The decent ones tend to be full-sized, comfortable, and still have things that can be hard to find in "normal" keyboards. They're also expected to take a bit of a beating, so they should hold up better than the rubbish ones you get for $10-15[1]

    For example, when I got this keyboard, I got it because I wanted a combination of things that can be difficult to find on plain keyboards:

    * Full sized keys, not the slim crap that lacks good tactile feedback
    * home/end/pgup/pgdn/arrows still have a distinct area, instead of being squeezed in to save space
    * Still has keys that plain keyboards often remove now. Right alt, ctrl, super, menu keys, for example. Also still has printscreen, scroll lock, and break keys.

    On a similar subject, the same is true with the mice: it's worth it to have a good, comfortable mouse that will last. I had a hell of a time finding a comfortable replacement for the Logitech mx518 I used for many, many years. Logitech's own successor to it has shit support for Linux, so I had to find something else. That's actually how I found out about Roccat; their Kone+ mouse feels a lot like my old mx518 and works fully in Linux, so I gave the company a shot and ended up liking their keyboards, too.

    [1]: Except for the time I found a couple forgotten Model M keyboards on clearance in an office store. Probably the best $10 keyboards I'll ever see.

    • (Score: 2) by martyb on Saturday July 26 2014, @12:38PM

      by martyb (76) Subscriber Badge on Saturday July 26 2014, @12:38PM (#74157) Journal

      Original Poster here. I didn't even think about Linux support. That is a make/break for me. Not that I would need it immediately, but it is in my short-term plans to move away from a Windows environment and get to a Linux (or maybe *BSD) environment. FWIW, I'm a long-time emacs user, so standard keyboard layout is key. (Pun intended =)

      The Roccat link was very helpful. I see most of their keyboards have a huge, integrated wrist rest that I'd rather do without. OTOH, if that's the only stumbling block, it's something that I could live with.

      What should I watch for WRT OS compatibility? Is this a driver issue? What problems have you seen?

      --
      Wit is intellect, dancing.
      • (Score: 2) by Marand on Monday July 28 2014, @12:38AM

        by Marand (1081) on Monday July 28 2014, @12:38AM (#74497) Journal

        Sorry for the late reply, been really busy. I'll try to clarify briefly now and come back later with more if I don't have time...

        Driver support is largely an issue with regard to configuration of extra features. Lights, extra buttons (including media ones sometimes if you're really unlucky, but that's uncommon), etc. Non-issue if you don't have any extra bits, usually, so if you went with a generic Unicomp [pckeyboard.com] Model M type keyboard, it wouldn't matter. With the Roccat one, it's primarily about a couple things:

        1. The tool to configure the lights and keybinds. it saves to the keyboard itself afterward, so you *could* set it in Windows and then forget it, but it's nice to have the tools work in Linux.

        Generally any keyboard with its own memory/cpu will do something similar, so you can work around this with those. Same with mice. Just watch out for the ones that set everything via the driver at boot, they're the nasty ones. That's the case with newer Logitech ones, which is what turned me off of using them.

        Keyboards aren't so bad usually, though it's good to check first. Mice are huge offenders, doing non-standard things to get the extra buttons and widgets they advertise. The problem is that Windows software rarely supports the higher-numbered mouse button events, so the mice tend to use driver+software to send keyboard shortcuts instead, and Linux support gets hacked in if you're lucky. Roccat's a rare exception there in that it will do proper mouse events for tilt, scroll, and side switches if you want. Keybinds allowed but optional.

        2. Roccat's devices have an unusual feature: a shared modifier key (they call it 'EasyShift') that can communicate with other Roccat devices. I have a keyboard and mouse, so I can, for example, press one of the extra keyboard keys (or a mouse button) that's bound to easyshift, and it will turn most of the left side of the keyboard, as well as the mouse buttons, into extra keyboard shortcuts if I like.

        I use it for common actions like closing, maximising, and minimising windows. This, plus some kwin shortcuts for resizing and moving, let me turn off the titlebar and reclaim a bit of vertical screen space I rarely need.

        ---

        As for the wrist rest, it isn't nearly as bad a thing as it seems. I was prepared to return the keyboard if I didn't like it, but I actually found it nicer than the separate wrist rest I used before. Maybe it's because I have larger hands than average, but it doesn't seem as huge in person as it did in the pictures.

        Comfort is extremely important, too. Some people will probably find the narrower keyboards more comfortable, while people like me get wrist pain from them because they're too cramped and force unusual hand positions. I pay attention to that because I spend a lot of time at a PC and don't want to ruin my hands.

        I wonder if SN would accept a followup summary from you about your selection process? Final choices, which one you got, what you thought? If not, it'd be cool if you post it somewhere at least, I'm curious what you ultimately choose.

        Any way, don't have time to write more, but I'll check back if you need any clarification or have other questions, or if I think of anything else. I've unfortunately had experience with some really bad keyboards and mice as well as some really good ones, so I've gotten picky about them. Might add some anecdotes about those later...

  • (Score: 2) by tibman on Friday July 25 2014, @11:13PM

    by tibman (134) Subscriber Badge on Friday July 25 2014, @11:13PM (#73990)

    I've heard good things about wireless solar. No need to swap batteries or mind cables.

    Slightly OT: I use a fairly rare Unisys 556-352 (PCK101-KBD). If anyone has one (no matter the condition), i'm very willing to buy it : )
    It has a long ps/2 spiral cable that is detachable, no windows key, and all F# keys are gray (not alternating beige and gray).

    --
    SN won't survive on lurkers alone. Write comments.
  • (Score: 1) by tempest on Friday July 25 2014, @11:20PM

    by tempest (3050) on Friday July 25 2014, @11:20PM (#73993)

    This probably won't be a popular opinion, but my favorite is currently a das keyboard, Yes it's expensive. I think it's a "pro". It clicks, but not as much as a buckling spring. It feels nice with a balenced amount of pressure required, but not so much feedback that the click goes back into your fingers. Some people like that, but my fingers tend to sting if I write a lot (which I often do). It also has two side usb plugs which are handy.

    Other opinions: I've tried the Unicomp, but found buckling spring in that form just isn't for me (see comment on stinging fingers). I've also tried a Razor Black widow. This is a nice keyboard, and feels as good as the das keyboard, but has extra keys on the side. If you look closely they reduced the key spacing to fit them in, and this became fustrating to type on as I spend all day at work on a regular keyboard, then I'd come home and "miss keys" because placement was shifted slightly. I use a cherry occasionally, and they're good keyboards.

    My favorite keyboard is from a Wyse serial terminal, although I dont recall the model. I wish I were smart enough to make that work with a PC.

    • (Score: 3, Informative) by Theophrastus on Saturday July 26 2014, @12:09AM

      by Theophrastus (4044) on Saturday July 26 2014, @12:09AM (#74023)

      but it is popular. popular with the most important social sector: me. i've owned keyboards from every computing era. clicky ones, chiclets, separated, molded, illuminated, programmable, and really never found a keyboard (for the less ridiculous priced models [therichest.com]) than Das Keyboard. hate the name, love the board. really nothing more than their "Model S Professional" is needed.

      • (Score: 1) by ksarka on Saturday July 26 2014, @08:01AM

        by ksarka (2789) on Saturday July 26 2014, @08:01AM (#74117)

        I've been using Model S Ultimate for past four years now, with blue switches. The only dowside of that is at the times when you sit in a small office with several other people - it can get really loud on intensive typing sessions. As soon as you start working alone - it's perfect. It also looks neat and I noticed having no labels improved my typing speed by a lot. Having extra USB ports on the side is great aswell.

  • (Score: 3, Informative) by Hairyfeet on Friday July 25 2014, @11:20PM

    by Hairyfeet (75) <{bassbeast1968} {at} {gmail.com}> on Friday July 25 2014, @11:20PM (#73994) Journal

    Folks generally don't like paying a lot for keyboards with their new PCs so I have a LOT of experience with all manner of cheap boards. These are quiet, pretty reliable, and cover pretty much any use case.

    If you need a keyboard that is easy to see at night here is 2 with mice for $10 [tigerdirect.com]. Nothing fancy but they work well, in fact the little woman uses one on her laptop and its lasted quite awhile. If you'd like a gamer keyboard the Inland gamer for $15 [tigerdirect.com] is decent, if again nothing fancy. A little noisier than the green ones but still pretty quiet. If you need wireless Gearhead wireless combo for $22 [tigerdirect.com] gets the job done. The mouse sucks batteries but frankly i haven't seen a wireless mouse that don't, and if you have trouble seeing The Adesso Luminous for $15 [tigerdirect.com] could be seen by Ray Charles, great if you need a keyboard for somebody with vision problems.

    Well there you have it, these are cheap, decently reliable, pretty quiet, and I've sold enough of them at the shop to know they last surprisingly long for the price. All in al if you just want a basic setup without the bling any of these will do the job.

    --
    ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
  • (Score: 3, Informative) by toygeek on Friday July 25 2014, @11:36PM

    by toygeek (28) on Friday July 25 2014, @11:36PM (#74005) Homepage

    Hi there, I have been exactly where you are right now. Cheapo keyboards suck, mechanical keyboards are overly expensive, and everything in between is just "meh". I did tons of research before purchasing, and I ended up with the Monoprice Mechanical Gaming Keyboard. I know you said you don't want a gaming keyboard. Its not- its just a marketing thing. The only "Gamey" thing about it is the obnoxiously bright num/caps/scroll lock LED's. They're those blue ones that the kids apparently like. Me, I covered the with electrical tape and trimmed a small notch so I can still see the light just a little. It's perfect otherwise and I am gleefully typing on it right now.

    It uses Cherry MX Blue's which are not all that loud. Definitely quieter than the IMB Model M keyboard. The feel is great and I love it.

    You can read my entire review of it and more info about the research I did (with some helpful links) here on my blog (no, this is not click bait, I don't even have ads on my blog!) http://www.tidbitsfortechs.com/2014/07/mechanical-keyboard-review/ [tidbitsfortechs.com]

    The keyboard is $60 + shipping and worth every penny.

    --
    There is no Sig. Okay, maybe a short one. http://miscdotgeek.com
  • (Score: 3, Informative) by kaszz on Friday July 25 2014, @11:40PM

    by kaszz (4211) on Friday July 25 2014, @11:40PM (#74008) Journal

    Beware that any keyboard that boasts "wireless" usually have an encryption that suck and thus you will be broadcasting your password(s) to your neighborhood and all passing vehicles or passive scanners.

  • (Score: 1) by Ethanol-fueled on Friday July 25 2014, @11:53PM

    by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Friday July 25 2014, @11:53PM (#74013) Homepage

    The problems Martyb is having with his keyboards is indicative of one or two causes:

    • Semen encrustation -- Try leaning back before your climax and aiming your member such that your spooge launches all over your chest rather than your keyboard.
    • Drinking either really good beer or really shitty beer -- IPAs and other rich beers tend to gunk up the keys when the spills dry, resulting in keys that push down but don't pop back up. Same with nasty malt liquors such as Old English "800" or Steel Reserve, which leave a thick syrupy resin when dry. Try drinking a light mediocre beer like Landshark or Corona.
    • (Score: 2) by tibman on Saturday July 26 2014, @12:15AM

      by tibman (134) Subscriber Badge on Saturday July 26 2014, @12:15AM (#74026)

      Can't rule out two decades of skin flake and eyelash buildup. Don't breath when you blow that one out.

      --
      SN won't survive on lurkers alone. Write comments.
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 26 2014, @01:21AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 26 2014, @01:21AM (#74046)

    http://codekeyboards.com/
  • (Score: 3, Informative) by el_oscuro on Saturday July 26 2014, @02:14AM

    by el_oscuro (1711) on Saturday July 26 2014, @02:14AM (#74056)

    You can get a PS2/USB [amazon.com] which will work well with a Model M and modern hardware. The thing about model M keyboards is you can take them apart and clean them. By far the best way to clean them is with denture cleaner. That stuff works wonders. Just fill a bowl with water, add the denture cleaner and pop the key caps off. This stuff will clean 20 year old grime like nothing else.

    If you also happen to be on the B ark, denture cleaner also works extremely for telephone sanitizing. You wouldn't want to contract a virulent disease from a dirty telephone, now would you?

    --
    SoylentNews is Bacon! [nueskes.com]
    • (Score: 3, Informative) by LoRdTAW on Saturday July 26 2014, @01:06PM

      by LoRdTAW (3755) on Saturday July 26 2014, @01:06PM (#74162) Journal

      I actually splurged and bought a model M USB cable for my 1986 Model M. It's a PS2-USB adapter in which the translator chip is molded into the USB connector and the end of the cable has a model M connector. It cost $30 off ebay and is quite expensive but it looks very neat and clean.

  • (Score: 1) by VitalMoss on Saturday July 26 2014, @03:16AM

    by VitalMoss (3789) on Saturday July 26 2014, @03:16AM (#74066)

    Honestly, go to Newegg and just search for their lowest priced keyboards. The reviews are generally extremely accurate/helpful and It's how I got mine.

  • (Score: 3, Informative) by bradley13 on Saturday July 26 2014, @06:36AM

    by bradley13 (3053) on Saturday July 26 2014, @06:36AM (#74108) Homepage Journal

    It's great to see a thread on this! After various misadventures, I hauled out an ancient Logitech desk set out of my closet and have been using that. It should long since have been retired - the mechanical mouse is all used up - but everything I've tried in the interim has failed or turned out to be crap.

    Particularly worth mentioning: Cherry has a reputation for making great switches, but their keyboards do not work reliably. Let other people put their switches into products, Cherry can't do it.

    I am a touch typist who has used split keyboards for years - by split, I mean that the keys for the left hand and the right hand are separated by a pyramid of empty space [tyden.cz]. Keyboards like this used to be easy to find, but Logitech (to name my favorite keyboard company) no longer has any "ergonomic" keyboards on offer.

    To keep a long story short: I have nothing to offer, because I am currently frustrated in a search for a good keyboard. However, I will enjoy looking at all the links and recommendations made by other folks - thanks, everybody who posted a recommendation!

    --
    Everyone is somebody else's weirdo.
  • (Score: 2) by LoRdTAW on Saturday July 26 2014, @01:27PM

    by LoRdTAW (3755) on Saturday July 26 2014, @01:27PM (#74169) Journal

    For those who are complaining about the expense of a keyboard, you need a reality check. Your hands and arms interact with them for many hours every day. Do you honestly want to skimp on something that important? If you are willing to spend big $$$ on a fast PC with a screaming graphics card, fast CPU, oodles of RAM and a speedy SSD then why not a bitchin keyboard (and mouse)? For some reason the keyboard has taken a backseat to form, function, and most of all, cost. And typing is a health hazard, carpal tunnel anyone? No thanks.

    That being said: Rosewill makes some very decent mechanical keyboards featuring cherry switches for under $80. They do make a few models that break $100 but those have features that aren't pertinent to typing, only gaming.

    The other day an article was posted about a open source keyboard from a programmer who went through every gimmicky ergo and non ergo keyboard: http://www.keyboard.io/ [keyboard.io] Looks interesting but when you get down to it, it's yet another gimmicky keyboard. It remains to be seen whether it is as comfortable as it implies and I wish the designer luck.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 26 2014, @02:20PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 26 2014, @02:20PM (#74177)

    Get a keyboard with topre keys. Like a RealForce or similar. I've use a Cherry brand keyboard at work (red switches) and a filco 10 key pad (blue switches) at home and as someone who uses both types on a regular basis, cherry switches cannot hold a candle to topre keys.

  • (Score: 2) by zafiro17 on Saturday July 26 2014, @03:04PM

    by zafiro17 (234) on Saturday July 26 2014, @03:04PM (#74183) Homepage

    I'm "that guy" who went out and bought an expensive, alternative keyboard: the Kinesis Ergo keyboard. http://therandymon.com/index.php?/167-Typing-in-Style-with-the-Kinesis.html [therandymon.com] But no regrets whatsoever, and after 6 years of using it, I like it more than ever. Increasingly if I'm in front of a computer with a shitty keyboard and I can't even be bothered to use it. The Kinesis rocks - it is really awesome. I went for the Dvorak model, but no matter what keyboard layout you choose, it's a seriously comfortable keyboard. Highly recommended.

    --
    Dad always thought laughter was the best medicine, which I guess is why several of us died of tuberculosis - Jack Handey