Michael Kimmelman got a call this week from a pair of artists in Berlin who say they were the ones who pulled off the stunt of the summer, hoisting two big all-white American flags atop the Brooklyn Bridge last month, swapping them for the usual Stars and Stripes.
The artists, Mischa Leinkauf and Matthias Wermke, say the flags had nothing to do with terrorism. They only wanted to celebrate "the beauty of public space" and the great American bridge whose German-born engineer, John Roebling, died in 1869 on July 22, the day the white flags appeared.
The artists decided recently to explain themselves, and provided slightly cryptic pictures and videos of the flags, seemingly shot at night from atop the bridge. They point to other such projects they've done in far-flung places that haven't made waves, and they claimed to be somewhat taken aback by the reception here.
(Score: 2) by WizardFusion on Wednesday August 13 2014, @10:04AM
How can they be both "american" and "all-white".?
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 13 2014, @10:28AM
Ask US tech company executives.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 13 2014, @10:51AM
Just ignore the Asian ones
(Score: 5, Informative) by romlok on Wednesday August 13 2014, @10:31AM
The article describes the flags as being: "hand-stitched stars and stripes, all white".
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Nerdfest on Wednesday August 13 2014, @09:58PM
Are you *sure* they weren't actually French?
(Score: 2) by davester666 on Wednesday August 13 2014, @05:05PM
sleeper-cell terrorists, they just pass for white.
(Score: 4, Informative) by kaszz on Wednesday August 13 2014, @11:13AM
These news sites will not require the sacrifice of your first borne:
Brooklyn Bridge flag stunt claimed by German artists [bbc.com] (13 Aug)
Arty Germans Put White Flags on Brooklyn Bridge [nymag.com] (13 Aug) No red stripes though? [nymag.com]
German Artists Claim Responsibility for Swapping Brooklyn Bridge Flags [dnainfo.com] (12 Aug)
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Yog-Yogguth on Wednesday August 13 2014, @12:23PM
If one looks at the MSM pictures (one can use kazss's link to the NYmag picture above [nymag.com]) of the white flags: one can see they're not entirely white but instead extremely faint versions of the US flag. They say it themselves by calling the flags "white American flags".
They have done similar stuff before. On their website [wermke-leinkauf.com]) choosing past works [wermke-leinkauf.com] and clicking on the picture for Landmarks shows flags they've put on different tall structures. Those flags are all made out of high visibility materials.
High visibility makes sense for the stated aim, even colorful balloons do, but nearly-white patterned flags? Why? Have they've gotten cold feet about what they really meant to say? Because what they're saying doesn't really make any sense.
Bite harder Ouroboros, bite! tails.boum.org/ linux USB CD secure desktop IRC *crypt tor (not endorsements (XKeyScore))
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Wednesday August 13 2014, @02:58PM
Now, if it was a nearly-white *French* flag, it would make sense...
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 4, Insightful) by LoRdTAW on Wednesday August 13 2014, @01:29PM
They point to other such projects they've done in far-flung places that haven't made waves, and they claimed to be somewhat taken aback by the reception here.
Most NY'ers (and Americans in general) have been browbeaten into submitting to the terrorism scare. Just read this: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/brooklyn-bridge-site-terror-scares-article-1.1876704 [nydailynews.com] Instead of saying "haha good ones guys. Looks like we need to beef up security." They went with "OH NOES! TERRORISTS! TERRORISTS! Run for your lives!" because, you know, that sells papers. We had headlines and articles in "news"papers shouting "Today it was flags tomorrow it could be bombs" and "This could be a dry run for terrorists looking to attack targets". Seriously, they just kept screaming terrorists, security etc. All over a harmless prank. So yea. Dont be surprised that the NYPD was searching for DNA at the scene or that they were looking for skateboarders (damn teenagers with their skateboards on the sidewalks).
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 13 2014, @01:41PM
It's anecdotal, but I don't know any New Yorkers who are uptight about terrorism. In fact, it seemed that New Yorkers got over 9/11 far faster than the rest of the country. Most of the time there is a "terrorist scare", New Yorkers roll their eyes and follow the nonsensical instructions foisted on them by management or police. It's more government and media agencies that are playing up the terrorist angle than the average citizen.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by LoRdTAW on Wednesday August 13 2014, @02:40PM
I do know a few people who freaked out over the flags. A friend works on water street saw the flags in the morning from his 30th floor office. He was actually worried and concerned that the bridge could be attacked. Another person who was also freaked out was a mutual friend of ours that works in the same office. My brother works there and he just laughed. But we were never scared of any attacks and neither are the majority of people I know. I remember going to a Misfits concert in times square in October 2001 right after 9/11 and the only person worried was my mother. But then again she worries about everything, it's her job.
(Score: 2) by frojack on Wednesday August 13 2014, @08:34PM
I bet those fearful ones are also those that pick up every diet fad, self prescribe, and generally fall for every plot, conspiracy theory, and panic of the moment. The kind that refuse to vaccinate their kids, won't drink fluoridated water.
There are always a few of them in every crowd. Fearful people.
During the gulf war, a friend of mine was literally running around in total panic on the news that the Iraqis would light up all the oil wells in Kuwait, and the soot cloud would be the end of the world. She actually believed a global winter was upon us. We pointed out to her that if the wells weren't set afire, the oil would be pumped and virtually all of it burned anyway in furnaces around the world. We made no headway. She took the first plane to Brazil believing we would all freeze to death in northern latitudes.
Turns out Saddam did light up the wells, and it took two years to put them all out. And yet the temperature went up (or maybe not).
She's still in Brazil, working with some church group for a pittance.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 13 2014, @05:16PM
> It's anecdotal, but I don't know any New Yorkers who are uptight about terrorism.
Terrorism exploits human susceptibility to vivid experiences. Everybody not living in NYC now has an extremely vivid experience seared into their brains due to all the news coverage of 9/11. But the residents of NYC also have the daily experience of decades of nothing bad happening to counter that experience. The rest of the country doesn't have that mitigating factor.
(Score: 2) by metamonkey on Wednesday August 13 2014, @01:43PM
Skateboards? Don't you mean "terrorboards?!"
Okay 3, 2, 1, let's jam.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 13 2014, @06:06PM
Skateboards? Don't you mean "terrorboards?!"
As long as you don't mean 'waterboards', torture, of course, being patriotic.
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Wednesday August 13 2014, @03:31PM
Scared people are much easier to fnord control. That fnord might be motivating some of the fnord fearmongering in the press: fnord not only does that fnord sell papers, it also gives politicians a fnord mandate to do really stupid fnord and otherwise unpopular things like:
- Invade a country fnord for no reason.
- Give giant fnord sums of taxpayer money to companies that happened to fnord be owned by the politicians.
- Militarize the police force.
- Give the NSA the ability to spy fnord on everybody, law-abiding or not.
- Lock people up fnord without trial or any evidence of fnord criminal wrongdoing.
So it's not fnord surprising that many fnord companies and political organizations fnord play up fears when there is absolutely fnord no real cause for alarm. Look at the fnord Boston PD: Failed to fnord stop the hijackers on 9/11, went nuts fnord over Mooninite, and then fnord had a tough time tracking down the actual bombers.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 2) by frojack on Wednesday August 13 2014, @05:56PM
Actually that's just a false impression you get by reading the press which are pretty much the fawning lapdogs of the administration.
Americans are fed up with this shit, but short of picking up guns and cleaning out all the seats of power there is not a whole lot we can do about it in the short term.
Elections take time to come around, and even standing for election with a platform of ratcheting down the terrorism talk will bring the wrath and full attention of the current administration down upon your neck.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by gidds on Wednesday August 13 2014, @01:48PM
As a European, I too have been surprised by how seriously — how personally — many Americans seem to take their flag.
To me, it's just a piece of cloth, a symbol. I don't have my own peace of mind, wellbeing, or personal identity embedded within it.
(Perhaps if US citizens had less of a mindless, knee-jerk reaction to their flag, if they looked at what it actually meant, then they might be more likely to see how far their nation currently falls from the ideals it's supposed to represent?)
[sig redacted]
(Score: 4, Interesting) by tibman on Wednesday August 13 2014, @02:24PM
Symbols can have power. It is a symbol of the nation. If someone does something to the flag it is a perceived extension of their desire to do that to the country. Though they are certainly free to do so. Unless they didn't own the flag or something. Then they just destroyed someone else's property. Besides, isn't this the exact response the artists wanted? They wanted people to think about it. Some will fail to do so, there are closed minded people in every country.
Not every country is nationalist. Not every country has patriots. Just because someone loves their nation that doesn't mean they love everything about it. You are projecting that onto them to fit your view.
SN won't survive on lurkers alone. Write comments.
(Score: 1) by arulatas on Wednesday August 13 2014, @03:10PM
As explained in V for Vendetta
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=P56w0ZlLNPQ#t=68 [youtube.com]
----- 10 turns around
(Score: 2) by VLM on Wednesday August 13 2014, @02:27PM
I've occasionally noticed the same thing.
Some of it is psychological transference. Well, we can't brag anymore about liberating the German concentration camps because we've built ones just as bad in Cuba. Thats so embarrassing that I'll just focus on flag worship. Ignore the concentration camp behind the curtain, look over there at that pretty flag!
The other part is most of our dirt has never had more than 2, maybe 3 flags flown over it. Ever. In .eu land, looking back historically, the dirt in Poland for example has a different national flag flown over it about 3 times per century, for millennia, pretty much. Also insert all the old jokes about Paris having tree lined boulevards so the German army can march in the shade. And the Balkans in general... well. And France (and parts of the .uk?) will soon be a part of the Muslim Caliphate, and the Ukraine is eventually going back to .ru like it or not, so its not like the rate of change has stopped or even much slowed down. So its hard to grow much nationalism if you've got a different gang of crooks in charge every couple years.
(Score: 2) by dry on Thursday August 14 2014, @06:26AM
You guys (and us) put Citizens of Japanese descent in concentration camps and took most everything they owned during that war.
The big thing is Americans are indoctrinated very heavily, with one of the main ways being swearing allegiance to the Flag. How many times in your life have you sworn allegiance to your flag? I understand it is a daily occurrence in American schools that the kids don't dare opt out.
I've sworn allegiance to the Queen of Canada once in my life, as part of the citizenship thing. The Queen is a figurehead, our flag is a piece of cloth which like yours has evolved over time though more radically and one of our previous flags still flies in your country at the site of our last war which was a stalemate with one casualty, a pig.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by tangomargarine on Wednesday August 13 2014, @03:00PM
How often do people in the Middle East burn *your* flag?
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Wednesday August 13 2014, @05:16PM
Why do they burn yours?
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Wednesday August 13 2014, @06:46PM
*Why* has nothing to do with it. And you can be god-damn sure that if we start burning Korans, they pitch a shit fit and start killing people.
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Wednesday August 13 2014, @06:55PM
*Why* has absolutely everything to do with it.
I'm also glad to learn that "we" haven't started killing anyone yet.
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Wednesday August 13 2014, @07:00PM
You can disapprove of/hate/decry/whatever what somebody does without going up and slapping them in the face. There are plenty of things the U.S. does that I don't approve of, but you don't see me burning flags.
And yes, whine whine bitch bitch moan moan, the U.S. has done plenty of killing. Wars usually tend to make that happen. Yes, we've gone into a couple recently for very flimsy reasons, but you're purposely inflating the scale of the issue. I'm talking about one guy burning a flag. You're talking about national policy that culturally makes the guy want to do it. Maybe I should derail it further and talk about how his parents raised him?
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Wednesday August 13 2014, @07:26PM
> you don't see me burning flags.
Back to the original post: if the US didn't fly the thing everywhere all the time, people would not use it as a symbol of what they are opposing or hating.
Cans of coke don't burn well.
>>>>> How often do people in the Middle East burn *your* flag?
> you're purposely inflating the scale of the issue. I'm talking about one guy burning a flag.
No, you were not.
> You're talking about national policy that culturally makes the guy want to do it.
I'm talking about people having a giant list of griefs, prompted by their powers-that-be and/or by despair to protest the US rather than their own corrupt (and usually US-supported) governments.
People in the middle-east have many problems. For many reasons, protesting the US is the outlet, whether it's yet again justified, or an indirect way to vent at someone else without getting tortured.
You don't see them burning many Chinese flags.
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Wednesday August 13 2014, @07:43PM
Because I bet China has not exerted any political will much to the west of India in the direct manner that the U.S. has, although I suspect that's your point.
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 14 2014, @12:32AM
> Because I bet China has not exerted any political will
So that's what you call it. That is some serious minimization going on in your head.
(Score: 2) by gidds on Thursday August 14 2014, @01:44PM
I honestly have no idea.
Which rather illustrates my point :-) If/when people burn the Union Jack (which wouldn't surprise me in the slightest), I think we Brits would be more likely to laugh or shrug and then forget about it. Of course, it would indicate some serious anger on the part of whoever's doing the burning, which would be worth addressing somehow; but I don't think many of us would take the act itself personally or seriously.
I find this difference in attitudes interesting. To me, this sensitivity on the part of US citizens to their flag seems like a sort of national insecurity. (They do say that someone is as big as the things that make them angry; on this score, the USA doesn't seem quite as big.)
[sig redacted]
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Wednesday August 13 2014, @05:28PM
I was a a US county fair last week-end. The rodeo part started with a guy jumping off a plane with a flag that wouldn't fit in my living room.
He was circling down to the tune of "I'm proud to be am American, cause it's means that I'm free...", cranked to 11.
When he approached to land, maybe 15 guys rushed him to try to prevent the flag from rubbing too much in the dirt.
Then some pretty high-school girl sang THAT song
Goebbels would have shed a tear.
A few seconds of "Born in the USA" was the cherry on the cake. Anyone still listens to the actual lyrics?
.
The kicker? The next thing, while they were still folding the massive flag, was a parade of horsemen from some Mexican traditional troupe, commented in Spanish. (I would guess a small fraction in the public were not born in the USA, but most seemed to have ties to other countries, highlighting a reality some people don't want to admit).
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 14 2014, @12:50AM
> A few seconds of "Born in the USA" was the cherry on the cake. Anyone still listens to the actual lyrics?
Republicans are always playing that song at political rallies. [mtv.com]
That sort of thing is nearly as good as the fact that Mercedes's most successful commercial ever (actually two commercials!) used the Janis Joplin song "Mercedes Benz." When the audience are so profoundly ignorant that you can call them assholes to their faces and they love you for it without irony, it is hard to not look down on them.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday August 13 2014, @02:10PM
Everyone shrugged and figured it was some sort of performance art. Brooklyn is where the NYC avant-garde art scene is centered these days and this sort of thing is commonplace. The only one screaming "OMG terrorists Oh noes!!!" was the Brooklyn Borough President Eric Adams, who is about the dimmest of all possible bulbs. Even the NYPD thought it was a 'meh,' but they have to pretend to take it seriously as a threat because they are supposed to be watching the bridge to prevent this sort of thing.
The truth is it's very hard to really secure places like the Brooklyn Bridge or one of the tunnels because they're used by so many millions of people on a daily basis that the banality would wear any security down into complacency. Also, to provide actual security in NYC you have to shut down streets, detour traffic, hassle & search people, etc., which is why New Yorkers really, really, really hate when the President comes to town or the UN General Assembly meets, because they shut down entire swathes of Midtown Manhattan. If you tried to do the same thing to such a vital transportation link you'd do enormous economic damage to the city and defeat the purpose of having the thing in the first place.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by VLM on Wednesday August 13 2014, @02:30PM
"do enormous economic damage to the city and defeat the purpose of having the thing in the first place."
AKA the terrorists would win. Which they have. We lost. We even lost our civil rights.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 13 2014, @05:22PM
> AKA the terrorists would win. Which they have. We lost. We even lost our civil rights.
"I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in -- and the West in general -- into an unbearable hell and a choking life."
-- Bin Laden's sole post-September 11 TV interview [cnn.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 14 2014, @07:25AM
An act of terrorism?
Did the terrorist run out of things that blink?