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posted by LaminatorX on Thursday August 14 2014, @04:08AM   Printer-friendly
from the tough-love dept.

The Local Europe reports:

Meet Carl-Magnus Helgegren, a journalist, university teacher, and proactive dad.

And like so many other dads, Helgegren had to have the violent video-game conversation with his two sons, Frank and Leo, aged 10 and 11 respectively.

"We were sitting at the dinner table last autumn, and my kids started telling me about this game they wanted to play, the latest Call of Duty game, and told me about the guns and missions."
[...]
So Helgegren struck a deal. The family would take a trip to a city impacted by real war. The boys would meet people affected, do interviews, and visit a refugee camp. And when they came back home, they would be free to play whatever games they chose.

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  • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Lagg on Thursday August 14 2014, @05:09AM

    by Lagg (105) on Thursday August 14 2014, @05:09AM (#81081) Homepage Journal

    "I have received messages calling me the worst parent in the world, saying that I am traumatizing my children, that I am a pompous bastard, and that I should be doused in napalm," Helgeren told The Local. "I didn't really expect such a reaction."

    Wow, you didn't expect to be called a pompous bastard and shitty parent for taking your kids to a war zone because they asked for an FPS. You didn't expect hate mail for being a "TEH VIOLENT VIDEO GAMES THINK OF THE CHILDREN" prick when it stopped being an acceptable attitude years ago. You didn't expect to be told that you're traumatizing your children for taking them to a totally unfamiliar place and showing them what the worst of humanity could turn a place into. Call of Duty has done some pretty distasteful things and as a whole the series is a rehash happy and generally crappy set of video games. But it's still an FPS and is still not reality and will not turn your kids into murderers.

    I don't think he should be doused with napalm but I do think he should be sterilized and possibly give the kids to their mother or something. Or some other family member who isn't a complete prick that will endanger his kids' mental and possibly physical well being because they had the gall to ask for a video game. Yes he says that people are merely "misconceiving" the situation in Israel. Probably. But that doesn't change the fact that it is traumatizing. Ever been home sick? Ever felt that inherent lack of safety when you were sleeping at a friend's house as a kid? Imagine that but in a place with entirely different culture and pretty clear evidence of war and death.

    --
    http://lagg.me [lagg.me] 🗿
    • (Score: 1, Troll) by Lagg on Thursday August 14 2014, @06:08AM

      by Lagg (105) on Thursday August 14 2014, @06:08AM (#81094) Homepage Journal

      and before someone pipes up and tells me I'm being harsh or other such nonsense. Do I really need to remind the type of person who makes up the readership of this site of the ridiculous moral panics in the last 30 years besides video games? Up to and including rock music, tabletop RPGs and of all things comic books? You can make an argument for empathy building as someone below did but do you know what also helps kids build empathy? Punishing them for stealing or being disrespectful to people and otherwise treating them badly. Not taking them to a fucking war zone because they asked for a video game. I can't believe I need to explain this to people period much less the people who make up this readership, who I generally assume are intelligent enough. Yet I'm told that I'm the one detached from reality.

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      http://lagg.me [lagg.me] 🗿
      • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 14 2014, @06:55AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 14 2014, @06:55AM (#81110)

        > before someone pipes up and tells me I'm being harsh or other such nonsense.

        Don't worry, you aren't being harsh. You are being a self-righteous idiot. The guy takes an opportunity to teach his kids about the real world and you turn it into a moral panic. Get some perspective before losing your shit.

        > Yet I'm told that I'm the one detached from reality.

        Yeah, and off your meds too.

        • (Score: 2) by Lagg on Thursday August 14 2014, @07:03AM

          by Lagg (105) on Thursday August 14 2014, @07:03AM (#81115) Homepage Journal

          I'm being self-righteous and acting as if I'm off my meds? Really? Even though this guy explicitly stated that the games were his sole motivation for taking his kids there? It's right there in the article almost verbatim and I quoted it in a post below too. Believe me I'm not the one being self-righteous and insane here. He's the same kind of tool that caused the brunt of the damage said panics did and I don't like seeing it happening. Or do we need more pasttimes ruined before people get that into their heads?

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          http://lagg.me [lagg.me] 🗿
          • (Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 14 2014, @07:10AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 14 2014, @07:10AM (#81121)

            > I'm being self-righteous and acting as if I'm off my meds? Really?

            Yes. Really.

          • (Score: 4, Insightful) by pert.boioioing on Thursday August 14 2014, @07:14AM

            by pert.boioioing (1117) on Thursday August 14 2014, @07:14AM (#81123)

            "I'm being self-righteous and acting as if I'm off my meds? Really?"

            Yes, really. You even stated you think the guy should be sterilized and, given the tone of your posts, I don't believe for one second you meant it as a joke.

            Really dude, take the damn antidote.

            • (Score: 2) by Lagg on Thursday August 14 2014, @07:18AM

              by Lagg (105) on Thursday August 14 2014, @07:18AM (#81124) Homepage Journal

              I didn't mean it as a joke but I didn't mean it literally either. I prefer to not make remarks such as "dipped in napalm and his kids sent to social services" when I can avoid it. Maybe that was what made you think that I meant it. I do genuinely think he shouldn't have any more kids though lest he do even stupider stuff to them. One can only imagine the asshattery that'll ensue when they ask for a BB gun or something. Or lard help them when they ask about sex.

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              http://lagg.me [lagg.me] 🗿
              • (Score: 2, Informative) by Lagg on Thursday August 14 2014, @07:45AM

                by Lagg (105) on Thursday August 14 2014, @07:45AM (#81135) Homepage Journal

                You know that actually brings up a rather disturbing point or maybe an amusing one, that crossing the line twice like that instead of trying to be somewhat sincere would actually be taken less seriously than if I were to use the aforementioned napalm thing. As painful as it is to see people defending stuff like this and as much of an asshole as I feel like posting this much in one thread or summary (I know it's not particularly wrong but it just feels... Unorderly and against etiquette) I must admit that it's an observational goldmine. I'm not afraid to cede when I'm wrong but in cases like this and a recent religion-based thread I started I just can't help but feel lost as to what exactly people are arguing against me about or what is worth defending. I admit that I'm prone to hyperbole sometimes but I try not to be and people really should see past that in cases of importance instead of latch onto my flubbing of posts. I don't like kids in general but stuff like this genuinely tugs at me, I don't want a child's life to be ruined any more than the next guy. So the fact that people are seeing this as some kind of murderous rampage on my part really need to get a grip.

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                http://lagg.me [lagg.me] 🗿
                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 14 2014, @07:18PM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 14 2014, @07:18PM (#81403)
                  Lighten up, Francis.
        • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Thursday August 14 2014, @08:15AM

          by aristarchus (2645) on Thursday August 14 2014, @08:15AM (#81141) Journal

          Reality, what a concept! Dismemberment! Dis-embowelment! So many amazing ways to die that do not involve being tea-bagged on-line!

          Father of the year award, if you ask me.

        • (Score: 4, Funny) by DeathMonkey on Thursday August 14 2014, @05:40PM

          by DeathMonkey (1380) on Thursday August 14 2014, @05:40PM (#81349) Journal

          All I can say is that it's a good thing they didn't ask for Super Mario Brothers.

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by wantkitteh on Thursday August 14 2014, @12:21PM

        by wantkitteh (3362) on Thursday August 14 2014, @12:21PM (#81204) Homepage Journal

        Okay, how about if I say your writing style is confrontational, sensationalised, abusive, didactic and hysterical? Take this as constructive criticism - yes, you had a point worth making, but if you wanted to start a rational discussion, keeping the nerdrage under control might have been a good place to start if you wanted to avoid a heated argument.

        To quote Spaced:

        Bilbo Bagshot: I punched a bloke in the face once for saying "Hawk the Slayer" was rubbish.
        Tim Bisley: Good for you.
        Bilbo Bagshot: Yeah, thanks. But that's not the point, Tim. The point is I was defending the fantasy genre with terminal intensity, when what I should have said is "Dad, you're right, but let's give Krull a try and we'll discuss it later."

    • (Score: 2) by tathra on Thursday August 14 2014, @05:01PM

      by tathra (3367) on Thursday August 14 2014, @05:01PM (#81332)

      don't worry man, i agree with you. only the dumbest kind of idiots equate video game violence with real-world violence. he'll be lucky if his kids don't get PTSD from this. he better not be surprised if this ends up backfiring on him.

      next i expect to see some idiot tell his kids he'll buy them an FPS only after they join the military: "YOU WANT TO PLAY WAR?! FINE, GO PLAY WAR! >:E"

    • (Score: 3, Funny) by khallow on Thursday August 14 2014, @08:58PM

      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday August 14 2014, @08:58PM (#81453) Journal

      OTOH, look at it from the kids' point of view. They get to go on an exciting trip and Dad buys the game at the end without any more fuss. It's a win.

    • (Score: 2) by krishnoid on Thursday August 14 2014, @08:59PM

      by krishnoid (1156) on Thursday August 14 2014, @08:59PM (#81455)

      "I have received messages calling me the worst parent in the world, saying that I am traumatizing my children, that I am a pompous bastard, and that I should be doused in napalm," Helgeren told The Local.

      In all honesty, he shouldn't have chosen to make this announcement over chat while playing CoD.

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by GWRedDragon on Thursday August 14 2014, @05:29AM

    by GWRedDragon (3504) on Thursday August 14 2014, @05:29AM (#81083)

    Exposing your kids to the realities of the world (without getting them hurt in the process) is one of the main jobs of parenting.

    I can't say what the actual risk involved in this trip was, but the goal was certainly an important one.

    Keeping kids in an emotional shell cut off from the world hurts them in the long run. And while it might have been a shock, it sounds like they got to come back home to a peaceful life, loving family, and support. That is the difference between damaging trauma and experience that helps you understand the world. Experiences like this build empathy and recognition of the various problems with the human condition that a good adult must be aware of to act as a responsible citizen.

    --
    [Insert witty message here]
    • (Score: 1) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 14 2014, @05:34AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 14 2014, @05:34AM (#81084)

      Yours is a much more level-headed and reasonable comment then the inane, rambling first post.

      • (Score: 0, Redundant) by Lagg on Thursday August 14 2014, @05:45AM

        by Lagg (105) on Thursday August 14 2014, @05:45AM (#81088) Homepage Journal

        Rambling? Perhaps. Inane? No, and you're an idiot. There's a huge difference between doing it as an act of empathy building and doing it because you don't want your kid playing those darned murder simulators. The above post is what I'd call inane given that it doesn't acknowledge that pretty damn big distinction and treats it as a totally altruistic instance of good parenting.

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        http://lagg.me [lagg.me] 🗿
        • (Score: 1) by GWRedDragon on Thursday August 14 2014, @05:53AM

          by GWRedDragon (3504) on Thursday August 14 2014, @05:53AM (#81090)

          I don't know what the parent's actual motive was, but ascribing it solely to a fear of video games sounds like a media fantasy to make the headline more eye-grabbing.

          --
          [Insert witty message here]
          • (Score: 2) by Lagg on Thursday August 14 2014, @06:23AM

            by Lagg (105) on Thursday August 14 2014, @06:23AM (#81099) Homepage Journal

            You know, that is a good point and I really wish that was the case. If it was I wouldn't have said anything in the first place. If that was the case then your other point which is already fair enough would already be good. But here's another choice quote from this sorry excuse for a human being let alone father:

            "It wasn't until the second day when we were there, eating at an Israeli street food stand, when they asked, 'Dad, are we really here because of the games?' And I said yes. Yes, we are here because of the games. You need to see this."

            It was abundantly clear what his motive was at that point in the article.

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            http://lagg.me [lagg.me] 🗿
            • (Score: 2) by Rune of Doom on Thursday August 14 2014, @07:07AM

              by Rune of Doom (1392) on Thursday August 14 2014, @07:07AM (#81118)

              Yes. It was abundantly clear that his motive was to show his children what war really is, and let them make their own decisions about whether or not to participate in the glorification of it that is widespread in western civilization, a nuance that you appear to have missed.

              • (Score: 2) by Lagg on Thursday August 14 2014, @07:09AM

                by Lagg (105) on Thursday August 14 2014, @07:09AM (#81120) Homepage Journal

                and his method of doing this was to take them directly to the region and make them wear those "adorable" berets while sitting next to guys in combat gear? Sorry but I'm not buying it.

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                http://lagg.me [lagg.me] 🗿
                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 14 2014, @09:59AM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 14 2014, @09:59AM (#81170)

                  Not everything's about you. Stop trying to make it so.

                • (Score: 3, Informative) by pe1rxq on Thursday August 14 2014, @10:17AM

                  by pe1rxq (844) on Thursday August 14 2014, @10:17AM (#81176) Homepage

                  From the article (east-Jerusalem, refugee camp, hospital, black market) and the photo combined I got the impression that the father actually tried very hard to show them both sides and even mentions discussing politics.
                  With a bit of luck the kids went away not hating either side knowing that in a real war there are only victems.

                  • (Score: 2) by khallow on Thursday August 14 2014, @09:01PM

                    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday August 14 2014, @09:01PM (#81457) Journal

                    With a bit of luck the kids went away not hating either side knowing that in a real war there are only victems.

                    No, if there were only victims, then there'd be no one to start the war in the first place.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 14 2014, @06:08AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 14 2014, @06:08AM (#81095)

          Your words speak for themselves, though they don't say what you think they do... Perhaps if you had a father who had taken enough of an interest in your life to help instill empathy and civic values you wouldn't feel so compelled to make angry, misanthropic posts.

          • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by Lagg on Thursday August 14 2014, @06:14AM

            by Lagg (105) on Thursday August 14 2014, @06:14AM (#81097) Homepage Journal

            Heh. Really? Blaming people's anger on daddy issues is still a thing in the year 2014? My father was an asshole true but you know what? That is what taught me empathy. I learned what not to be and I learned how to be a decent human being by not being like him and what do you know! It didn't even require a visit to a war torn region or even any effort on his part! What a brave AC you are though, trying to turn an argument based on vague psychology that is only applicable in much fewer situations than people think they are. Granted, your words also have a hidden meaning to me too and it might explain why your thinking is so out of whack. I assume that you also think all school bullies just have bad parents and need a big hug? Psychopaths (including Dad of the Year up there from all evidence) don't work that way.

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            http://lagg.me [lagg.me] 🗿
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 14 2014, @12:22PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 14 2014, @12:22PM (#81206)

              My father was an asshole true but you know what? That is what taught me empathy. I learned what not to be and I learned how to be a decent human being by not being like him and what do you know! It didn't even require a visit to a war torn region or even any effort on his part!

              Empathy or no, you certainly use language like an asshole. And if "not being like him" means coddling all of our special young people until the precious snowflakes are mature enough to "understand" the violence that people do to each other, then you will be helping to raise very unhealthy people. If you try to show your kids that the world is nothing but rainbows and unicorns, you're not teaching them empathy, you're teaching them how to be victims.

              If this dad's decision to show his kids what war is really like was precipitated by a violence-glorifying videogame, I don't really care. If a dad's decision to show his kids was a soup kitchen is really like is precipitated by them talking about bum hunting [cnn.com], then good for him. Kids learn empathy through observation and exposure, not by sitting on a comfy couch being told that hitting is bad.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 14 2014, @07:23AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 14 2014, @07:23AM (#81126)

            > Perhaps if you had a father who had taken enough of an interest in your life to help instill empathy and civic values

            Wow. Nailed it.
            Sad that you were so right though.
            It is really hard not to tweak someone with mental illness like that.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 14 2014, @07:00AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 14 2014, @07:00AM (#81113)

          > doing it because you don't want your kid playing those darned murder simulators.

          I'm curious, what part of "Video games in themselves are not bad" says "murder simulator" to you?

        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by sjames on Thursday August 14 2014, @07:27AM

          by sjames (2882) on Thursday August 14 2014, @07:27AM (#81130) Journal

          So you believe he decided it would be easier to spend 10 days and thousands of dollars to take his kids on a tour of Gaza than it would be to say "You can't have it!"?

          Note that he showed them the good, the bad, and the ugly. His kids are unlikely to be glued to CNN cheering the next time a war heats up somewhere.

          Unlike so many other parents who just say no, he showed them WHY he wasn't too happy about video war games and let his kids decide for themselves when they got home. As a bonus, instead of being looked down on by their peers or teased for not being allowed to have cool games, they will tell their friends what they saw.

          Or he just did it because it's so hard to say no and a 10 day trip with a visit to a refugee camp is so easy. Hrmmm, which seems to be more likely?

          BTW, I'm not condemning parents who don't do that either, it's not for everyone and many couldn't afford it anyway.

          • (Score: 2) by Lagg on Thursday August 14 2014, @07:35AM

            by Lagg (105) on Thursday August 14 2014, @07:35AM (#81132) Homepage Journal

            No I don't believe that, but that is a good point nonetheless. What I do think is that he's hysterical and believes that a video game is in any way connected to this stuff. It does beg the question though, why say no? What exactly will Call of Duty do to them besides perhaps make them a pain in the ass to people who are trying to play online? As far as single player goes and perhaps I'm not filled in enough in call of duty, I really can't see how simulated blood and gore could possibly hurt them. It's violence, but the whole thing about violence in games dulling people to real violence has been pretty thoroughly disproven at this point. Like I said earlier Call of Duty has been quite tasteless at times (I know, I'm being generous) but is that really his kid's problem? Would an 11 year old really grasp the geopolitics involved that make Call of Duty tasteless? So far as I can tell they're like any other 10-11 year olds and just want to shoot enemies and see blood decals and particle effects. Why can't he just say "no, because this game series capitalizes on real wars. Why don't you try Rise of the Triad instead" or something like that. Because he's hysterical, that's why.

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            http://lagg.me [lagg.me] 🗿
            • (Score: 3, Insightful) by sjames on Thursday August 14 2014, @07:59AM

              by sjames (2882) on Thursday August 14 2014, @07:59AM (#81138) Journal
              What I do think is that he's hysterical and believes that a video game is in any way connected to this stuff. It does beg the question though, why say no?

              He didn't say no. His kids freely chose not to get the game once they returned home.

              Would an 11 year old really grasp the geopolitics involved that make Call of Duty tasteless?

              Based on TFA, apparently if they see the aftermath first hand, they will.

              Based on his willingness to let them have the game if they still wanted it after their trip, I get the feeling he wasn't hysterically anti-video game. He, as a father, apparently wanted to teach his children WHY he found the game distasteful. We have no evidence that he was at all concerned they would grow up to be homicidal maniacs if they played it or any of that hysterical clap-trap.

            • (Score: 2, Insightful) by wantkitteh on Thursday August 14 2014, @05:48PM

              by wantkitteh (3362) on Thursday August 14 2014, @05:48PM (#81353) Homepage Journal

              Yes, we all know that simulated blood and gore don't make any difference to kids in the long term and do very little in the short term unless they're already really badly mentally ill, you're preaching to the choir brother, leave it alone already. I think you've missed the point somewhat here. CoD etc. never ask you to make any meaningful effort to deal with the aftermath or consequences of your actions and that's what this Dad is demonstrating to his kids. Damn good on the man! Do we really want our kids to attach "fun" to "war" in any way, shape or form, especially right now during the centenary remembrance of WW1? Have we forgotten so quickly that war is not a grand, glorious enterprise to be undertaken willingly and joyfully?

              Not to mention that a lot of violence perpetrated in CoD etc would be a violation of various conventions of war that would see you tried for war crimes afterwards.

              PS: WTF definition of hysteria have you been fed?

          • (Score: 2) by carguy on Thursday August 14 2014, @01:55PM

            by carguy (568) Subscriber Badge on Thursday August 14 2014, @01:55PM (#81246)

            BTW, I'm not condemning parents who don't do that either, it's not for everyone and many couldn't afford it anyway.

            A less expensive approach might be to expose the kids to some of the social commentary on war? The first one that comes to mind is Tom Lehrer - So Long, Mom (A Song for World War III)
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrbv40ENU_o [youtube.com]
            But there are plenty of other examples, some might be a too deep for pre-teens.

            • (Score: 2) by sjames on Friday August 15 2014, @08:02AM

              by sjames (2882) on Friday August 15 2014, @08:02AM (#81651) Journal

              That's not at all a bad idea. That plus a little parental guidance can make a strong point.

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by GWRedDragon on Thursday August 14 2014, @05:37AM

      by GWRedDragon (3504) on Thursday August 14 2014, @05:37AM (#81086)

      I'd like to also add the following:

      In a free society, the citizenry as a whole are responsible for directing and acting as a check on their government in all matters, including those of war and conflict. It is critical that citizens have an understanding of the weight of these decisions, so that they can make them with wisdom.

      Sometimes war and killing are necessary, sometimes it is not, but it should never be a decision taken lightly and exposing kids to these realities helps them better serve these duties as citizens once they become adults.

      --
      [Insert witty message here]
      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 14 2014, @07:08AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 14 2014, @07:08AM (#81119)

        > It is critical that citizens have an understanding of the weight of these decisions,
        > so that they can make them with wisdom.

        One of the most unfortunate consequences of the US eliminating the draft has been that the citizenry are no longer required to have a personal stake in those decisions any more. When all of the mothers have to worry that their sons will die fighting for a cause, it means that the cause had better be a damn good one. Nowadays the only ones who worry are the ones with the least ability to do anything about it.

        • (Score: 2) by Tork on Thursday August 14 2014, @07:38AM

          by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Thursday August 14 2014, @07:38AM (#81133)
          Umm... you know we don't vote on who to go to war with, right?
          --
          🏳️‍🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️‍🌈
          • (Score: 1) by Horse With Stripes on Thursday August 14 2014, @11:03AM

            by Horse With Stripes (577) on Thursday August 14 2014, @11:03AM (#81187)

            Umm... you know we don't vote on who to go to war with, right?

            Unfortunately, sometimes we do by proxy.

          • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 14 2014, @12:34PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 14 2014, @12:34PM (#81211)

            Umm... you know we don't vote on who to go to war with, right?

            No, you vote for a guy who goes to campaign rallies singing, "bomb, bomb, bomb Iran" or for a guy who says "We continue to be in a war that should never have been authorized." You can vote for guys with aggressive, "hard-line" responses to minor threats, or for guys with weak, "international-consensus" responses. That's what it means to be in a representative democracy: you don't vote on every issue, but you do vote for someone who you can trust to make the proper choice on your behalf.

            • (Score: 2) by Tork on Thursday August 14 2014, @03:05PM

              by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Thursday August 14 2014, @03:05PM (#81271)
              I admire your idealistic view, but you do not live in the real world, my friend.
              --
              🏳️‍🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️‍🌈
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 14 2014, @04:42PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 14 2014, @04:42PM (#81320)
              Whoever modded this up seems blissfully unaware that no candidate is forthcoming about their intentions to defraud the public. Let's be realistic, you went with a really low hanging fruit with the McCain example. Why don't you show us a clip of candidate GWB singing "bomb, bomb, bomb Iraq after being attacked by Afghanistan"?
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 14 2014, @05:52AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 14 2014, @05:52AM (#81089)

      I was expecting some vague "attaboy" posts to this story. I was somewhat surprised by the crazy first post, and relieved that yours was a cogently worded one, rather than being some liberal pablum.

      If there's one thing that the human race seemingly refuses to learn it's that war is hell, and should never be glorified.

      FatPhil
      (posting AC only as I'm travelling and have no idea what my PW was)

  • (Score: 4, Funny) by arslan on Thursday August 14 2014, @06:54AM

    by arslan (3462) on Thursday August 14 2014, @06:54AM (#81109)

    Now.. i wonder what he'd do once his kids starts asking about the birds and the bees...

    • (Score: 2) by jimshatt on Thursday August 14 2014, @11:12AM

      by jimshatt (978) on Thursday August 14 2014, @11:12AM (#81191) Journal
      Completely off-topic, but, I've always wondered about that. What about those birds and bees? I'm sure they can't possibly create offspring (although humming birds are quite small, interesting...). In the Netherlands we talk about flowers and bees (apparently also in Denmark). I'm curious about other languages and countries.
    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 14 2014, @02:09PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 14 2014, @02:09PM (#81251)

      The family from Sweden, not the US, so the subject of sex would be considered *less* distasteful than the glorification of violence.

  • (Score: 2, Insightful) by pkrasimirov on Thursday August 14 2014, @07:02AM

    by pkrasimirov (3358) Subscriber Badge on Thursday August 14 2014, @07:02AM (#81114)

    11y olds sitting on faces on characters they just killed, mocking them in addition? Talking about your mom because you didn't kill fast enough? This is a good parent.

    "Yes, sonny, we are here exactly because of the game. It's fun and games only when you don't lose. But in real life there is no respawn, everybody loses much or less, war is always a prolonged misery for all participants. Check this nice girl over there, nice smile, too bad she has only one leg."

  • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 14 2014, @07:18AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 14 2014, @07:18AM (#81125)

    So, I was poking around at some of the other articles on that newspaper site and I found this about an islamic extremist who threatened Sweden on Arabic TV. [thelocal.se]

    Reading the article, I saw something I've never once heard from anyone with any authority whatsoever in the USA:

    Linus Gustafsson at the Swedish National Defence College said the probable investigation would determine whether the caller is indeed a threat.

    "And it will determine whether he actually has the capability to turn this threat into a reality,"

  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by wantkitteh on Thursday August 14 2014, @11:59AM

    by wantkitteh (3362) on Thursday August 14 2014, @11:59AM (#81200) Homepage Journal

    I posted about a related topic on my journal yesterday, but I'll kinda reiterate as it's a slightly different thing we're talking about here. Quick bio: I'm 33. I've been playing FPS's since Wolfenstein on a 286. My death match education came from sneaking Doom into computing labs on floppy disks, LAN parties on Quake, UT and MoH/CoD1&2, then ADSL arrived and I hit competitive online/LAN CS 1.5/1.6, BF1942/Vietnam/BF2 and Natural Selection. So yeah, I've played a LOT of FPS games and can attest that I have not been affected by the violence with them at all. People talk about violence in video games and my only thought is that I once objected publicly to a woman buying her 10-year old a copy of Blood in a shop, mainly because it had an 18 BBFC rating and would give the kid nightmares.

    I'm currently a World of Tanks player in a clan that's starting to get a bit serious. I'm also just back into the game after a 2 month break. The reason I needed that break? I was plain and simply sick of dealing with the hideous anti-social behaviour that is considered perfectly acceptable in online PvP. What I've observed is that (in general) players above a certain age (30ish at time of writing) are perfectly reasonable, communicate intelligently, empathise with other players and are great to play with. What I've also observed is that (again, in general) the further below that age a player is, the more likely they are to be abusive, elitist, intolerant and generally act like a complete arsehole. I should make it abundantly clear that i don't associate video games with desensitivity to violence - I've seen the studies and the drop in empathy is short term (and actually worse after playing soccer games than FPSs) but I am concerned that younger players exposed to the bad behaviour of their peers in the dehumanised environment of online play at a young age does (in many cases in my experience) lead to them behaving badly as well. This isn't a moral panic or hysteria, it's just what happens when kids keep bad company - they follow the examples of others (we've all seen/done that ourselves) so if they see people being arseholes online and it's not immediately called out as being unacceptable, they won't automatically realise that it's not acceptable and are increasingly likely to engage in that same behaviour the more they're exposed to it.

    I was talking with my sister yesterday and we got onto a similar topic. She related to me the tale of a couple she knows, husband and wife, who are both hardcore gamers. One day the guy logs on to Call of Duty with his wife's gamer tag - not sure the happenstance, but *shrugs* whatever. His own account lists his considerable experience and has the normal kinda gung-ho culture-reference name that FPS players usually adopt. His wife uses a fairly feminine handle and doesn't play CoD. Pretty much as soon as this guy joined a game, he was subjected to sexist abuse in voice chat and half the players left the match - before he even opened his mouth! When he joined matches forming up in the lobby, people would leave straight away. People joining the room would quickly leave as well. The bit about this story that makes me trust the assessment that this was sexism and not noobism is that it was related to me by my gamer/cosplayer sister and came from an experienced male gamer who would instantly have been able to see the difference in the behaviour of those around him and knows first hand how people treat male/gender-neutral noobs as opposed to female noobs.

    I have no issue with this Dad discouraging his kids from playing this game, if only because it'll make them far less likely to be colossal sexist arseholes in the future.

    • (Score: 2) by tempest on Thursday August 14 2014, @01:24PM

      by tempest (3050) on Thursday August 14 2014, @01:24PM (#81225)

      Guilds/clans attempting to foster a non-hostile environment require many rules and drama enforcing them. Yet if there's a fairly high minimum age requirement none of that is really needed. Odd coincidence that is. In MMOs I play these days, I simply turn off text chat entirely aside from /say.

      • (Score: 1) by wantkitteh on Thursday August 14 2014, @04:29PM

        by wantkitteh (3362) on Thursday August 14 2014, @04:29PM (#81312) Homepage Journal

        Don't I know it - I was dispute mediator for a WoW guild for about a year. To make the job easier, we changed the guild rules to require "mature" players and anyone who was overtly immature in a disruptive or offensive way got kicked. We lost a lot of members, but all of a sudden our 25-man raid team sign-up attendance became almost perfectly stable...

        ...I'll be telling kids to get offamalawn by the end of this week at this rate... and I don't even have a lawn.

        • (Score: 1) by Freeman on Thursday August 14 2014, @06:59PM

          by Freeman (732) on Thursday August 14 2014, @06:59PM (#81391) Journal

          Having a lawn isn't all its' cracked up to be. You gotta mow constantly. I find myself wishing the lawn cutters of the future in Demolition Man were a reality. Laser cut grass would be very uniform, so long as it didn't catch everything on fire. Wouldn't have any issues with protestors on my lawn either. Hehehe.....

          --
          Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
  • (Score: 1) by Freeman on Thursday August 14 2014, @04:25PM

    by Freeman (732) on Thursday August 14 2014, @04:25PM (#81310) Journal

    #1 Kids/Others Cursing up a storm.
    #2 Kids being exposed to poor role models, I.E. see problem #1
    #3 Parents not being parents. I.E. Paddling their bottom / washing their mouth out with soap, etc. for things that they shouldn't be saying.

    I have played a lot of FPS games. I now typically play with mic turned off. Why? Between 50% - 99% of all games I would play there was someone cursing with every other word. There isn't any reason for that kind of behavior. In all too many cases you noticed they were all kids. I equate most of CODs recent issues with pandering after their largest audience, Kids. Which I blame on the parents of said kids.

    --
    Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
    • (Score: 1) by wantkitteh on Thursday August 14 2014, @04:48PM

      by wantkitteh (3362) on Thursday August 14 2014, @04:48PM (#81324) Homepage Journal

      I played the first two CoD games, did a lot of LAN party death matching, had a fantastic time. I wouldn't touch today's online CoD with a bargepole. When you're sitting in the same room with the rest of the players, abusing them via voice chat can get awfully painful.

  • (Score: 2) by The Archon V2.0 on Thursday August 14 2014, @06:12PM

    by The Archon V2.0 (3887) on Thursday August 14 2014, @06:12PM (#81369)

    ... the game his kids were clamoring for wasn't a modern shooter based on the area he spent time in, but rather was based on World War 2.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 14 2014, @08:23PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 14 2014, @08:23PM (#81437)

    Take the kids to a VA hospital. See if they can
    get accepted as volunteers , aka "candy stripers", or
    simply pay some recovering vets a visit. I think it'd
    take the glory out of war for a lot less money and peril.

    In the back of my mind I knew war sucked; but the
    realization really hit home when I was in the waiting
    room with a woman who had flown cross-country from LA
    to be with her son. He was in intensive care, clinging
    to life. IED in Iraq. My father was there too... dying
    of old age.

  • (Score: 1) by Jiro on Thursday August 14 2014, @11:30PM

    by Jiro (3176) on Thursday August 14 2014, @11:30PM (#81520)

    Did he take the kids to a plumber if they asked to play Super Mario? Maybe to Chernobyl if they wanted to play Fallout? (I know Chernobyl wasn't a bomb, but still.) I suppose he could make them visit some fat people with diabetes when they play Candy Crush.

    I wonder where he would take them if they decided to play Dead or Alive or some other game which has the player ogling female bodies.