Recently, there has been a circle-jerk of clickbait, gleefully consumed and hyperlinked by the anti-FOSS crowd. The claim is that a certain (unspecified) number of city employees are whining that Linux isn't Windows and FOSS apps aren't good enough and that Munich city fathers have decided to go back to Windows. It's all wishful nonsense from Microsoft fans.
Nick Heath at TechRepublic spoke to city council spokesman Stefan Hauf.
He said the council's recently elected mayor Dieter Reiter has instead simply commissioned a report into the future IT system for the council.
"The new mayor has asked the administration to gather the facts so we can decide and make a proposal for the city council how to proceed in future," he said.
"Not only for LiMux but for all of IT. It's about the organisation, the costs, performance and the useability and satisfaction of the users." [...] "Nothing is decided because first we have to see the report and then we can decide," he said, adding the review has not been triggered by any dissatisfaction with LiMux but is rather part of a review of how to proceed now the LiMux migration project is complete.
In the Spring of 2013, Munich noted that over 94 percent of its computers were running Linux and that the city had already saved more than €10 million over what they would have paid for EULA-ware--even with the fire sale prices initially offered by Ballmer personally.
That anyone thinks the mayor would survive re-election after blowing tens of millions on MSFT licenses and tens of millions more for more-powerful hardware to run it defies all logic.
...and, as Nick notes there, it was never about money; the move to Linux was always about freedom.
Related Stories
Nick Heath reports
[Munich's city] council is intending to conduct a study to see which operating systems and software packages--both proprietary and open source--best fit its needs. The audit would also take into account the work already carried out to move the council to free software.
Now, in a response to Munich's Green Party (PDF), Mayor Dieter Reiter has revealed the cost of returning to Windows.
Reiter said that moving to Windows 7 would require the council to replace all the PCs for its 14,000-plus staff, a move he said would cost €3.15 million. That figure did not include software licensing and infrastructure costs, which Reiter said could not be calculated without further planning. He said a move to Windows 8 would be far more costly.
Reiter said going back to Microsoft would mean writing off about €14M of work it had carried out to shift to Limux, OpenOffice, and other free software. Work on project implementation, support, training, modifying systems, licensing of Limux-specific software, on setting up Limux and migrating from Microsoft Office would have to be shelved, he said.
He also revealed that the move to Limux had saved the council about €11M in licensing and hardware costs, as the Ubuntu-based Limux operating system was less demanding than if it had upgraded to a newer version of Windows.
Related: No, Munich Isn't About To Ditch Free Software and Move Back to Windows
The city will investigate how long it will take and how much it will cost to build a Windows 10 client ahead of a vote on whether to replace its Linux-based OS from 2021.
A decade ago, Munich was at the vanguard of a movement towards open-source software, switching thousands of staff to Linux from Windows at a time when a move on that scale was almost unheard of.
After spending nine years and millions of euros on the project, today the city's politicians agreed to begin preparing to return to Windows by 2021.
Under a proposal backed by the general council, the administration will investigate how long it will take and how much it will cost to build a Windows 10 client for use by the city's employees.
Once this work is complete, the council will vote again on whether to replace LiMux, a custom version of the Linux-based OS Ubuntu, across the authority from 2021.
Source: Linux champion Munich takes decisive step towards returning to Windows
Before the decision: Statement by The Document Foundation about the upcoming discussion
Linux's Munich crisis: Crunch vote locks city on course for Windows return
Previous: No, Munich Isn't About To Ditch Free Software and Move Back to Windows
Munich is ditching Linux in favor of Windows 10, at a cost of €49.3 million:
The Linux love affair of the German City of Munich, which decided to favor Linux in 2003, is finally over. The city has officially cleared the plan to bring back Windows 10 on about 29,000 PCs.
In 2003, when the city decided to switch to a Linux-based desktop called LiMux and other open source software, it showed that free software could be used on a large scale. However, things didn't turn out the way they were planned.
Coming back to the recent development, the politicians who supported the switch said that Windows 10 will make it easier to source compatible application and drivers, according to TechRepublic.
[...] Linux enthusiasts should also note that the city's IT Chief has previously said that any concrete technical reason doesn't back the move; it's all politics.
Also at Engadget.
Previously: No, Munich Isn't About To Ditch Free Software and Move Back to Windows
Munich Reveals Preliminary Costs for a 'Return' to Windows
Linux Champion Munich Takes Decisive Step Towards Returning to Windows
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 21 2014, @03:59PM
That anyone thinks the mayor would survive re-election after blowing tens of millions on MSFT licenses and tens of millions more for more-powerful hardware to run it defies all logic.
...and, as Nick notes there, it was never about money; the move to Linux was always about freedom.
The disconnect to utter that is quite breathtaking. "its about money" no its really about "freedom" or am I missing something? I figured it was a bit of both.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 21 2014, @04:26PM
All I know it the Linux nerds keep promising free beer and I'm still thirsty.
(Score: 4, Funny) by dyingtolive on Thursday August 21 2014, @05:22PM
You wouldn't like our beer anyway. It's not bud lite.
Don't blame me, I voted for moose wang!
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Thursday August 21 2014, @06:50PM
If you actually listened you'd know that most of the time they're talking about free as in freedom and just using "free as in beer" as a contrast.
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 21 2014, @08:36PM
I thought the Linux nerds kept saying "No! No! The beer's NOT free -- we mean free as in Library...."
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 21 2014, @05:25PM
The move *to* Linux (time: years ago) was about freedom, the move *from* Linux (time: now) would be about money - more specifically money would be one thing that impedes it.
That's what the summary meant. I'm not sure it's really what happened, I think I remember a lot of talks about money savings back then...
(Score: 4, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 21 2014, @06:35PM
I think I remember a lot of talks about money savings back then
I doubt you remember "back then".
My €10 million link (highlighted version) [googleusercontent.com] mentions the years-later bought-and-paid-for-by-M$ "study" by Hewlett-Packard--which anyone who wasn't biased to begin with would recognize as FUD.
(Scroll down to the red or find "the controversial study compiled by HP" in the original.)
Note also the it is now a standard requirement that applications must be independent of operating systems portion which is *part* of the "freedom" issue.
The other part is that Munich wants to possess the source code for all the software they run.
Moving away from FOSS would screw that pooch.
.
...or you swallowed the hype.
Munich acknowledged that if they had accepted the fire-sale prices offered by Ballmer (who interrupted his skiing vacation to rush to Munich), their software prices on that day would have been lower.
The thing is that they were running 21 versions of Windoze throughout their ecosystem including NT.
They would have had to buy a whole bunch of hardware to "upgrade" their M$ software.
They also would have needed ANOTHER "upgrade" shortly after that because of proximate EoL issues.
With LiMux (their own spin of Debian/Ubuntu), they kept all their hardware in service and all their upgrades eternally carry $0 software costs.
...well, at least 94 percent are gratis at present.
-- gewg_
(Score: 3, Insightful) by opinionated_science on Thursday August 21 2014, @06:44PM
hopefully, they will make improvements and put the source back into the community!!!
There has been much trolling about functionality being missing from key apps. But ultimately if a local government can get it working for the purposes of the local people, we all should benefit...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 21 2014, @07:50PM
In the process of getting off of M$Orifice, Munich's IT guys had to convert the forms, templates, macros, etc. used by EVERY CITY EMPLOYEE[1] to something usable by OpenOffice|LibreOffice.
They made a tool to help with that [gooogle.com] which *is* available to all.
The easy way to avoid "compatibility" issues is to never use proprietary formats|protocols to begin with.
Barring that, mandate use of open standards throughout your own ecosystem.
The UK gov't just did that with document formats; more and more countries are seeing the wisdom in that.
.
...and I forgot to add one of my favorite links regarding this matter [googleusercontent.com] (orig) [europa.eu] which includes:
When the Munich mayor was at a conference in California, giving a speech about LiMux, Bill Gates was there as well. Ude, who is well-known as a humorist, loves to tell what happened next. Gates asked Ude if he would accept a lift to the airport in Gates's limousine. Wanting to save time, Ude agreed and off they went.
Once in the car, however, the mayor discovered that the Microsoft CEO wanted to use the 20-minute ride to talk him out of LiMux.
Gates asked: "Mr. Ude, why are you doing this?".
Ude replied: "To gain freedom."
Gates: "Freedom from what?"
Ude: "Freedom from you, Mr. Gates."
According to Ude, the rest of the ride passed in silence [linux-magazin.de].
.
Re: My comment formatting:
I surf without scripts, stylesheets, and images and my fixed-width font is Monofonto.
I see only single-column full-width readable text in my window, so what I see is likely different from what most folks see.
I enabled stylesheets momentarily to see what the recent {quote} implementation looked like and, unimpressed, immediately disabled those again.
My browser also wraps lines containing monospaced fonts no differently than proportional text.
[1] That individualized hand-holding was one of the big reasons the conversion took so bloody long.
Only Able to Use Windows? You're Fired [soylentnews.org]
-- gewg_
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 24 2014, @02:58AM
The deputy mayor is a M$ FUDster. [googleusercontent.com] (orig) [softpedia.com]
-- gewg_
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 21 2014, @06:46PM
I currently have mod points, and I'm tempted to use them for an "Insightful" mod - but damn that could use some formatting! I had to copy the text and paste it into a text editor just to be able to read it.
Posting anonymously so I can mod this thread... mrider
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 25 2014, @10:11PM
I suppose you may 'buy' software and do not have any info on source code. That is possibly ok for some uses but if you rely on something being there for years also after a company producing it closed down then you need to have source code. It may be that this source code is just a pile of garbage that nobody sane would want to touch anymore but it at least gives you a chance at fixing it after original author left the stage.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 21 2014, @04:04PM
How much of a public issue is the Munich Migration? Did it get a lot of coverage in the local news there? Would the regular person on the street be aware of it? I'm curious how much of it is just a "news bubble" for nerds versus it being a big deal? I'm thinking it is probably a non-issue in the general scope of city politics, but I simply don't know and not being a german speaker it is hard for me to find out for sure.
(Score: 2) by morgauxo on Thursday August 21 2014, @05:27PM
I don't know how much of a news story the switch was but switching back might be one. That would be a lot of city money to buy all those licenses and probably replace a lot of hardware. How much would the tax increase be or who's more popular program would be cut to fund that?
(Score: 5, Insightful) by bzipitidoo on Thursday August 21 2014, @05:31PM
Microsoft is known for running propaganda campaigns, among many other tactics that are dirty pool. They've been hauled into court and indicted time and time again. Microsoft would love to hear that a city tried Linux and decided to switch back to Microsoft. So badly do they want to hear that, that I have no trouble believing Microsoft invented it. They twisted some minor event to mean Linux lost to Windows, and had it shouted from every rooftop. Maybe they even bribed a few workers to say what they want to hear, then held the statements up to a megaphone.
The reporting of the switch back was classic MS marketing FUD. They don't give any specifics, they just say vague crap like that workers "find it easier" to "get work done" in Windows, and that workers complained about how hard it was to use Linux.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Nr_9 on Thursday August 21 2014, @04:04PM
http://www.eversheds.com/global/en/what/articles/index.page?ArticleID=en/global/germany/en/Microsoft-Deutschland-GmbH-relocates-its-headquarters [eversheds.com]
"As of summer 2016, approximately 1,800 employees will find a new working environment in the new headquarters in Munich-Schwabing."
(Score: 1) by SigveKolbeinson on Thursday August 21 2014, @09:48PM
Their current headquarters is just outside of Munich - the move brings them about 10 miles closer to the city.
I was initially going to just point this out that the move isn't as significant as it may seem at first glance.
However, typing this, a couple of things occurred to me:
Firstly, the irony of the fact that the "host city" of Microsoft Deutschland's HQ migrated away from Microsoft lock-in, in a high profile migration project.
Secondly, that the relatively strong presence of Microsoft near Munich may also provide MS with more opportunities for influencing/infiltrating than if they didn't have this presence.
(Score: 2) by urza9814 on Friday August 22 2014, @06:21PM
I dunno about Germany, but at least in the US a ten mile move could also change who they're paying taxes to as well as what city gets those jobs counted in various statistics. That alone can have some fairly significant political influence...
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Tork on Thursday August 21 2014, @08:28PM
Is there really an anti-FOSS crowd? "No way man, I hate free stuf!!" Or were you counting the "Right tool for the job!" crowd that doesn't always agree that Linux is the answer?
Just curious because I am eating some humble pie today for taking that story at face value.
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 2) by wonkey_monkey on Thursday August 21 2014, @09:21PM
There is, but what they say is "No way man, I hate other people using free stuff and not buying our stuff!"
Not so much a "crowd" as a "corp."
systemd is Roko's Basilisk
(Score: 2) by everdred on Thursday August 21 2014, @09:34PM
> Not so much a "crowd" as a "corp."
This (fake grassroots campaign) is often referred to as "astroturfing."
(Score: 1) by Andhesaidtome on Monday August 25 2014, @04:04AM
Ahh, so more of a crop than a corp.
(Score: 2) by bzipitidoo on Friday August 22 2014, @04:17AM
That's not the majority of anti-FOSS people out there. The majority among the anit-FOSS crowd have this woolly notion that free is inferior and unreliable and also somehow Communist and hippie. "You get what you pay for" is canon in their religion. They simply cannot believe that free could be good quality.
Or if it is free, it's not really free, there must be some kind of trap or diabolic plot. They fear that once hooked, they will discover all kinds of hidden costs. They're suckers for Microsoft FUD about GPL being a viral license that will force them to release all their own proprietary software to the public domain. Or they fear that maybe SCO was right and the free software was stolen from a big company, because individuals couldn't possibly innovate and produce on the large scales necessary to create an OS with an entire ecosystem of useful software for it. And if they use it, they could somehow be held liable. They also fear that free software isn't maintained and they will have no one to turn to if it breaks. They feel more secure in the smothering embrace of a big company. They think that makes life simpler and easier. "No one ever got fired for buying IBM" updated with Microsoft in place of IBM.
The really funny thing is when MS does them just the way MS got them to fear free software would.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 22 2014, @06:18AM
this woolly notion that free is inferior
A fun recent item:
Sometimes the direct sell method isn’t the best way to close the deal [googleusercontent.com]
(orig) [fossforce.com]
Compiz [blogspot.com]
The name Ken Starks may ring a bell.
He hit the ceiling a few years back when a schoolteacher took away a kid's Linux CDs, claiming they were contraband because they weren't from M$.
-- gewg_
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 21 2014, @10:13PM
"not the right tool for me" is different from "not the right tool for ANYONE".
Anybody who has spent any time at nntp://news.comp.os.linux.advocacy [os.linux.advocacy] or any FOSS news/advocacy site knows they are flooded with Windoze lusers who spew anti-FOSS nonsense.
When a Linux/FOSS topic comes up at El Reg, you can count on a lot of comments from Windoze lusers who have never used the item or -any- FOSS, but who are more than willing to post their "wisdom".
I suspect (but cannot prove) that many of these people have occupations which are dependent on selling closed-source proprietary software.
For others, it's just tribalism.
-- gewg_
(Score: 2) by Tork on Friday August 22 2014, @02:21AM
You mean like those assholes that shout 'Linux is the answer to BSODs!1!!', completely unaware that it isn't 1998 anymore?
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 22 2014, @05:52AM
assholes
Speak for yourself.
Linux is the answer to BSODs!
Yup. Haven't seen anything like that since I switched.
it isn't 1998 anymore
It appears you're trying to make a point.
Here, let me help you with that:
August 18, 2014
Microsoft Pulls August Update Over BSOD Crashes [tomshardware.com]
HTH HAND
-- gewg_
(Score: 2) by Tork on Friday August 22 2014, @06:09AM
Since Win2K you have been coasting on Win9x's reputation with a few of your equally ill-informed-buddies. You should look at what year it is now. The look on your face isn't smugness, it's over-a-decade's worth of relief.
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Friday August 22 2014, @08:58AM
Err ... you're responding to an Anonymous Coward. You don't even know if he posted in the time of Win9x or Win2k at all. For all you know, he might have been a 3-year old back then. Or a Windows advocate. Or a Mac user.
You seem to misunderstand "HTH HAND" as a pseudonym. You couldn't be further from truth.
HTH [kldp.org] HAND [kldp.org]
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 2) by Tork on Friday August 22 2014, @03:13PM
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 22 2014, @10:25PM
Well, I may be a coward, but I'm definitely not anonymous.
When I look at the very gray hair in the mirror, I do wish I could go back and start my pro-FOSS/anti-EULAware and anti-Capitalism advocacy even earlier.
Yeah, I learned about Windoze's many faults before most folks were using an NT kernel.
The thing is that M$ doesn't tend to throw away old code.
They keep using mountains of the old broken stuff.
...and as I have already mentioned to the GP in another thread, BSoDs are -not- a thing of the past.
August 18, 2014
Microsoft Pulls August Update Over BSOD Crashes [tomshardware.com]
-- gewg_
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 23 2014, @07:45PM
(Score: 2) by urza9814 on Friday August 22 2014, @06:25PM
Yeah, it's not 1998, BSODs *never* happen anymore -- unless you go into the settings and flip off that switch that makes the machine reboot without warning rather than throwing a BSOD...
(Score: 2) by Tork on Friday August 22 2014, @06:37PM
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 2) by urza9814 on Friday August 22 2014, @06:48PM
Oh yeah, up time is FAR better in modern Windows. So is Linux's compared to ten years ago.
My point was more about the fact that when these things *do* occasionally happen, Microsoft no longer wants you to know why.
That and pointing out the stupidity of criticizing an error *display format* instead of the problem itself. I mean I guess you could say 'BSOD' is basically Windows-speak for 'kernel panic' or something, but I've never met anyone who would call it a "BSOD" if the system just reboots out of nowhere, even though it's often the exact same thing.
(Score: 2) by Tork on Friday August 22 2014, @07:02PM
Actually the reason is that if the computer's just sitting there showing you a message it's not doing you any good unless you happen to be one of the sort that can decipher it into a repair-plan. This is a consumer OS.
"That and pointing out the stupidity of criticizing an error *display format* instead of the problem itself. I mean I guess you could say 'BSOD' is basically Windows-speak for 'kernel panic' or something, but I've never met anyone who would call it a "BSOD" if the system just reboots out of nowhere, even though it's often the exact same thing."
Whatever way you wish to measure it, it's still faaaaaar less often (measured somewhere between months and years) to the point that it is nothing close to a selling point for Linux. I could complain about how terrible dual-monitor support is in Linux, the problem is the last time I tried it was 2002. Hard to take me seriously on that, right?
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 23 2014, @03:02PM
How much are you getting paid to shill here? Or are you stupid enough to do it all pro bono?
(Score: 2) by Tork on Saturday August 23 2014, @03:18PM
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 2) by Pav on Friday August 22 2014, @02:11AM
...or at least the server/management portion? There's a fork which works on more standard OS's ie. Debian and RedHat based distros... it's called FusionDirectory. It's a bitch to set up, but I've written some scripts [sourceforge.net] so a demonstration setup/installation can be largely automated on a clean Debian install.