September 16th marked the first day that many states and cities across the United States begin switching back to "winter gasoline". Due to EPA regulations in warmer months to limit ozone and pollution, there are stricter requirements for gasoline everywhere, and requirements in bigger cities where tens of thousands of vehicles drive everyday are even more stringent. Even smaller communities switch to summer gasoline, but a version that isn't quite the same as what's used in larger cities.
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U.S. Moves Back to Winter Gasoline
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(Score: 1) by Webweasel on Wednesday September 17 2014, @08:25AM
I run a Celica GT4, Jap import.
She really wants 101 ron fuel...Best I can find is Tesco's 99 ron.
I have never come across this in Europe. I take it this is an American only thing?
Priyom.org Number stations, Russian Military radio. "You are a bad, bad man. Do you have any other virtues?"-Runaway1956
(Score: 1) by dltaylor on Wednesday September 17 2014, @08:30AM
Yes, the EPA is the United States "Environmental Protection Agency".
My XJR needs better fuel, too, but it is simply not available in coastal Southern California.
(Score: 2) by Nerdfest on Wednesday September 17 2014, @10:28AM
The highest I recall seeing Canada in 94. Wow. Extremely high compression engines?
(Score: 2, Informative) by Webweasel on Wednesday September 17 2014, @10:56AM
Yes. Different pollution standards too I think.
My Celica GT4 is a 2L Turbo, Putting our around 260HP. (She has a few mods)
The engine itself has a lower compression ratio than a normal N/A engine, because the turbo increases the pressure.
So if you did a cylinder compression check, you'd think its rather low, but the total pressure is higher due to the turbo charger.
The XJR mentioned is supercharged, so again higher pressure.
We need that hi RON rating to stop knocking.
Toyota did do a variant of the engine for the US. IIRC the MR2 had a 2.2 litre 5FSE engine instead of the Jap/Euro specced 3SGE engine. The 3SGE had a better head and was only 2 litre, probably due to the better fuel. It certainly puts out more power than the 2.2 version. The 5FSE was only available in Taxi's and American MR2's.
Certainly means we have a lot of fun and interesting cars.
Get the year and import right from Japan (Pre 1996) and you don't even need a Catalytic convertor on your car. Fun fun fun.
Priyom.org Number stations, Russian Military radio. "You are a bad, bad man. Do you have any other virtues?"-Runaway1956
(Score: 2, Informative) by EETech1 on Thursday September 18 2014, @01:58AM
I've done lots of knock control software and calibration for big supercharged and turbocharged engines sold around the world, and the MON really helps your knock, and power. MON is calculated under more realistic conditions than RON, and gives much more (less?) bang for the digit increase VS RON.
Seek the MON, your engine will thank you!
If you look at the wikipedia article about octane I linked above, the chart shows a few *enes and *anes with very high MON (and RON) numbers. Spend enough time around a race track and you'll be able to smell them apart.
(Score: 4, Informative) by compro01 on Wednesday September 17 2014, @01:21PM
No, different measures. Canada (and the USA) measures octane rating in AKI (Anti-Knock Index) whereas the UK (and all of Europe, I think) uses RON (Research Octane Number). RON gives higher numbers than AKI does and they don't covert cleanly.
Regular 87 AKI gasoline is the same as 91 or 92 RON.
94 AKI is between 99 to 101 RON.
(Score: 2) by aclarke on Wednesday September 17 2014, @02:49PM
This also helps contribute to Germans' overall senses of superiority when they visit North America. "In Germany our fuel is 101 but here it is only 87. Clearly we are better." I've heard variations this one at least a couple times.
(Score: 2, Informative) by EETech1 on Thursday September 18 2014, @01:44AM
Does your gas pump say R+M / 2 under the octane number?
Parent is speaking of 98 or 99 RON (the R above)
They don't use the M number in Europe which tends to raise the Octane rating so their 98 RON would be like 93 R+M / 2.
Tesco 99 RON has a 87 MON rating, so (98+87) / 2 =
92.5 R+M / 2
Oblig Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating [wikipedia.org]
Hope this helps!
(Score: 1) by Giav on Wednesday September 17 2014, @11:05AM
Fairly sure, Winter gasoline contains added volatile components to aid starting, downside is you get worse mpg. If you monitor mpg over the year there's a big drop in the autumn when the formulation changes.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Kromagv0 on Wednesday September 17 2014, @12:32PM
It isn't just the fuel change that drops your mpg during the cold months but the longer warmup time where the engine runs richer. Even at that the change from fuel isn't as pronounced as the change from warm summer temps to the bitter cold winter temps where I live.
Last year it was really bad where I was since we had several weeks where it got down around 30 below and the car wouldn't reach full operating temperature until about half way into my ~30 mile drive to work. It is rather disappointing to have a car that normally gets in the 33-35mpg range (US gallons) commuting and then have it get 25-27 mpg for a few months. The first week it stayed above freezing the mpg went back up to a more normal range and over the summer has been back in the 33-35 mpg range again (mostly affected by the nut behind the wheel).
T-Shirts and bumper stickers [zazzle.com] to offend someone
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 17 2014, @12:37PM
Maybe you can try a block heater or putting something in front of your radiator (to block the cold air)? I've been thinking of trying something and seeing the effect.
(Score: 2) by VLM on Wednesday September 17 2014, @01:06PM
A nice side effect of a block heater is the engine starts like its +40 out instead of the -30 that it is. Easy on the battery, and you get hot air out the heater vents in about a minute. Well maybe not hot, but hotter than outside air and warm enough to defrost the windows.
(Score: 2) by Kromagv0 on Wednesday September 17 2014, @04:40PM
I was going to install one of those adhesive block heaters last year but it snowed and got cold before I could (I don't have a heated garage) so while I had it I never got around to install it. I solved that problem this summer so I don't have to worry about it this coming winter. My jeep has a block heater and they are wonderful.
T-Shirts and bumper stickers [zazzle.com] to offend someone
(Score: 2) by M. Baranczak on Wednesday September 17 2014, @03:55PM
Also, winter tires tend to have higher rolling resistance, which drops fuel efficiency.
(Score: 2) by Kromagv0 on Wednesday September 17 2014, @04:43PM
On the daily driver I don't have winter tires but yes the soft tread compound on snow/ice tires do have a higher rolling resistance. The Jeep (driven when there is snow on the roads) has some nice aggressive all terrain tires on it so with posi on both axles I prefer that when the roads are bad. That stupid thing just gets crappy gas mileage and I don't really care as it usually gets driven about 3000 miles a year.
T-Shirts and bumper stickers [zazzle.com] to offend someone
(Score: 2) by hoochiecoochieman on Wednesday September 17 2014, @11:14AM
I've never heard about this before. Here in Portugal we use gasoil for half of our cars and 95-octane gasoline for the other half. The same fuels all year around.
There are some "premium" versions of gasoil and gasoline available in some pumps, but I don't know a single person that uses them. 98-octane gasoline is also available, with the same usage pattern, that I know of: zero.
(Score: 1) by Webweasel on Wednesday September 17 2014, @11:30AM
Go and have a chat with the sports car lot.
Anyone in a decent sports car (Impreza, Celica GT4, Evo's etc)
Even some "non sports" The Subaru forester uses the Impreza's turbo engine.
They will require 98 ron as a minimum.
Priyom.org Number stations, Russian Military radio. "You are a bad, bad man. Do you have any other virtues?"-Runaway1956
(Score: 2) by hoochiecoochieman on Wednesday September 17 2014, @11:34AM
Thanks. I don't know people in that group. But they constitute an insignificant minority of car owners around here. It's a quite expensive hobby.
(Score: 1) by Kunasou on Wednesday September 17 2014, @11:30AM
Same here (Spain), but sometimes they have LPG [wikipedia.org] too.
(Score: 1) by aiwarrior on Wednesday September 17 2014, @11:50AM
Well, another from Portugal here and I can confirm that we have premium gasolines, but they are so much more expensive that probably only companies and car aficionados buy them. You can only get higher octane gasoline in airfields, but it is not available to the general public.
Gasoline has a really low freezing range and in aviation I have never heard of any warning against gasoline freezing temperatures. Somebody also talked ignition and that I do not know, but sure sounds unlikely. The article does say what environmental difference there is, and I think it is the only reason there is a distinction between winter and summer gasoline. It is also the reason other countries do not have the distinction:
(Score: 1) by Webweasel on Wednesday September 17 2014, @12:03PM
My Dad runs his Jaguar XJ8 on LPG.
Right now, due to the low taxes it is really worth the investment. This may change if more people start using LPG in the UK.
Its about 63p a litre right now. That's less than half the cost of petrol and you get almost the same MPG and performance from it.
The only real issue is driving it across Europe, the pumps are different in each country, so you have to buy adaptors for each country you want to fill up in.
Wasn't the whole point of the EU to stop that kind of idiocy?
Priyom.org Number stations, Russian Military radio. "You are a bad, bad man. Do you have any other virtues?"-Runaway1956
(Score: 2) by hoochiecoochieman on Wednesday September 17 2014, @12:26PM
Of course not, the point of the EU is to give the lobbies a bigger preying range. And I guess LPG hurts the pockets of the corporations that sell fuels.
It was a pain here in Portugal to end a stupid legislation that banned LPG cars from indoors parking. The result was that LPG is not so popular here, because people are afraid of it. I guess someone profits from that.
(Score: 1) by Webweasel on Wednesday September 17 2014, @12:34PM
Yeah ridiculous.
Especially when you consider RV's and Caravans with the same cylinders full of LPG in them.
You can't take them on the channel tunnel either, it was never "safety checked" for gas canisters.
Priyom.org Number stations, Russian Military radio. "You are a bad, bad man. Do you have any other virtues?"-Runaway1956
(Score: 2) by Jaruzel on Wednesday September 17 2014, @11:42AM
In The UK, Petrol Forecourts typically have:
Ordinary unleaded – 95 RON
'Super' unleaded – 98 RON
and Diesel.
Leaded Petrol is no longer available.
Each of the big brands (Shell/Esso/Texaco) also try to pimp thier 'special' unleaded fuel which has added what-nots in it. I've never been that tempted to use that, so I stick with standard unleaded for my small car, and Diesel for my Merc.
-Jar
This is my opinion, there are many others, but this one is mine.
(Score: 1) by Webweasel on Wednesday September 17 2014, @11:59AM
Eh, It varies.
Tesco do 99 RON.
BP Ultimate is 97.
You will get more MPG out of super, but I don't think it works out cheaper.
I wouldn't know, driven nothing but sports cars since I was 25. Planning on getting a 5 Litre V12 soon, a BMW 8 series.
Priyom.org Number stations, Russian Military radio. "You are a bad, bad man. Do you have any other virtues?"-Runaway1956
(Score: 2) by Jaruzel on Wednesday September 17 2014, @12:10PM
No need to be sarcastic, I did say *typically* ;)
This is my opinion, there are many others, but this one is mine.
(Score: 1) by Webweasel on Wednesday September 17 2014, @12:13PM
Didn't mean to be sarcastic, apologies if it came across that way.
Priyom.org Number stations, Russian Military radio. "You are a bad, bad man. Do you have any other virtues?"-Runaway1956
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Kromagv0 on Wednesday September 17 2014, @12:47PM
If your vehicle says it needs the higher octane run it even if it is slightly more expensive even if the car can compensate for the lower octane. I did this calculation on a previous car where I live and it was cheaper per mile to use the higher octane stuff since the price difference between the lowest and highest octane was fixed even if the base price of gas varied. The main reason is that if you run the lower octane fuel the the vehicle compensates by dumping more fuel in and runs richer. This is equivalent to raising the octane but now you are more likely to have unburned hydrocarbons in the exhaust stream and thus shortening the life of your catalytic converter.
Have fun with the 8 series I have wanted one for a long time, not to mention some of their other vehicles like an M1, 507, or one of their prewar roadsters but I doubt I could afford any of them (excluding the 8 series) even if I did find one for sale. I am still kicking myself for not getting a 3.0CSL that was a find of a lifetime at 3000 euros.
T-Shirts and bumper stickers [zazzle.com] to offend someone
(Score: 1) by bibendumsn on Thursday September 18 2014, @06:42AM
This is mostly semantics, but electronic fuel injection systems typically retard the engine timing to combat pre-ignition/knock. This reduces both power and efficiency so you would have to drive with a heavier foot to compensate. Your MPG would decrease, but not because the mixture is any richer for a given engine speed and load.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 17 2014, @02:45PM
Try at a small airport.
(Score: 2) by kaszz on Thursday September 18 2014, @04:17AM
1) This is a regular event, use your calendar to find this out. No need to even look through the window.
2) Doesn't seem like a disruptive event.. ??
3) Gasoline is so last century and messy.
4) Cars are so boring.
Please don't submit stuff like this.
(Score: 2) by EvilJim on Thursday September 18 2014, @05:09AM
When I had a diesel turbo Hilux (forerunner) a while back and was going snowboarding a lot it was recommended I dump about a litre of petrol in with my tank of diesel for the higher altitude and lower temps. our usual temps dont get very low so they dont change our gas during winter, it's the same all year. I dont even think we have winter tyres here.