posted by
LaminatorX
on Friday September 19 2014, @12:52PM
from the thirst-for-knowledge-and-whiskey dept.
from the thirst-for-knowledge-and-whiskey dept.
Today the Ig Nobel Prizes 2014 were awarded. Among the winning topic were
- [Why] do dogs prefer to align with earths magnetic field, when defecating?
- Seeing Jesus in toast: neural and behavioral correlates of face pareidolia (Research paper not free, therefore no link)
- Frictional Coefficient under Banana Skin (Free full pdf inside)
and some others you always wanted to know more about. Have fun :-)
This discussion has been archived.
No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
(Score: 2) by AnonTechie on Friday September 19 2014, @12:58PM
This year's prizes are as wacky as the previous years. I wonder how these people continue to get funding for such research. Thats a lesson we could learn !
Albert Einstein - "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
(Score: 2) by looorg on Friday September 19 2014, @01:18PM
In their grant applications they mention they have gotten a Nobel prize for their previous work, they just never specify which one. I'm sure that is like future grant-money gold.
(Score: 2) by MrNemesis on Friday September 19 2014, @01:00PM
As someone with an Italian SO, these made us laugh - just wish paywalls weren't quite so prevalent:
Oddly enough, it seems ISTAT were the only people to receive awards who did not attend the ceremony. I wonder why...?
"To paraphrase Nietzsche, I have looked into the abyss and been sick in it."
(Score: 2) by q.kontinuum on Friday September 19 2014, @01:22PM
They were scared of environmentalists. I heard rumors that the shark they used to mount the laser on did not recover.
Registered IRC nick on chat.soylentnews.org: qkontinuum
(Score: 2) by mtrycz on Saturday September 20 2014, @09:57AM
Always loved the Ignobels, and the ISTAT prize is truly well earned, but sadly shit like this flies around here everyday, so much that it's almost not-news.
Looks like the mainstream media won't report on the Ignobels this year. Sigh.
In capitalist America, ads view YOU!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 19 2014, @01:09PM
How about the 'Tarring Award'?
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 19 2014, @01:19PM
From the paper: "The idea leading to the discovery of the correlation emerged after sampling was closed and the first statistical analyses (with rather negative results, cf. Figure 1) had been performed."
From the article on data fishing: "Looking for patterns in data is legitimate. Applying a statistical test of significance (hypothesis testing) to the same data the pattern was learned from is wrong.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_dredging [wikipedia.org]
(Score: 2, Informative) by Squidious on Friday September 19 2014, @01:23PM
I skimmed the dog article but did not see any speculation as to *why* dogs defecate aligned to the earth's magnetic field. Any ideas?
The only thing I searched up was the idea that it reduces the chance they will be blinded by the sun. I could see that - the sun is behind a cloud when they start defecating, so they can't use the sun itself to align safely. Then the sun comes out from behind the cloud while they are stuck in that position. Meanwhile a hungry panther is stalking ever closer, and attacks while they are temporarily blinded. Over the millennia natural selection finds a solution - sensitivity to the earth's magnetic field.
The terrorists have won, game, set, match. They've scared the people into electing authoritarian regimes.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 19 2014, @01:37PM
Dogs eat lots of meat, have iron rich diets. You can visualize the rest.
(Score: 1) by Squidious on Friday September 19 2014, @01:44PM
A far simpler explanation than mine, I like it. Use the Force, Fido!
The terrorists have won, game, set, match. They've scared the people into electing authoritarian regimes.
(Score: 2) by black6host on Friday September 19 2014, @01:51PM
I'd be interested in a study that tests on what magnetic alignment predator attacks occur. Obviously, not being blinded by the sun is a good thing in terms of self preservation. But perhaps there is a bit more to this story.
I would also like to see this study, and a similiar one for predators, and wild rather than domesticated animals, in different parts of the world to see if the preferred axis is the same. Or if there is a link between predator and prey.
The only logical explanation I can come up with is self preservation. But tying that together means looking at it from a predator/prey model. I believe a great deal of behavior, especially in non-domesticated animals, simply comes from an instinctual predisposition to not become another animals food source.
(Score: 2) by monster on Friday September 19 2014, @04:24PM
Mainly downwind, whatever magnetic alignment it is.
(Score: 1) by bswarm on Friday September 19 2014, @02:42PM
I read about this last year, and followed my dogs around the backyard for weeks with a GPS. It's not true, in fact most turdicles were laid in a west-east orientation.
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Friday September 19 2014, @07:56PM
But did you try using a magnetic compass? Perhaps your backyard is near some mass of iron or steel that is partially magnetized. (It wouldn't take much to swamp the earth's magnetic field.) Perhaps power lines interfere. So you need to compare against a magnetic compass rather than against a GPS.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 1) by bswarm on Friday September 19 2014, @08:17PM
I also have a Celestron SkyScout that uses GPS and compass and it lets you know if there's anything magnetic around. There's nothing magnetic around here like that. Powerlines are far away, but do run north/south.
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Friday September 19 2014, @08:52PM
Thanks.
Someone else posted that it looked like their result was the result of pattern fitting to the data after they had collected it.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday September 19 2014, @10:42PM
Which means the magnetic field they produce are on a E-W direction (transversal on the current, you may thank Maxwell et al. to that; if you don't like those EM laws, contact your local representative, maybe s/he can initiate something to repeal those laws... I'd like to see that)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1) by bswarm on Saturday September 20 2014, @01:19AM
These are AC powerlines. In DC the magnetic field will have a constant orientation. In AC the magnetic field will vary in direction and intensity. Therefore they won't have the same effect as true magnetic north.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Saturday September 20 2014, @01:36AM
The direction (as the support line for the magnetic field vector) doesn't vary. Only the orientation and intensity will.
True for the case of a magnetic compass needle. Indeterminable at this time for whatever those dogs use to orient their pooping direction, as the mechanism the dogs use to do that is not yet elucidated. If you have time to reproduce or investigate the matter further, I'd recommend you to go for it: for the takers, more IgNobel prizes are possible in this field - be it magnetic or not.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1) by bswarm on Saturday September 20 2014, @01:55AM
I was actually kidding about following them around with a GPS, but when I read the article I did pay attention to my dogs and several other dogs at various locations, and the whole thing is a bunch of crap. And I did check for magnetic fields for other reasons and there's nothing around my backyard.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Saturday September 20 2014, @02:17AM
Giving the subject of the study, that is to be expected, is it not?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 19 2014, @03:28PM
The editors of the journal Frontiers in Zoology should have considered using Figure 5 from Hart et al. as the cover issue.
(Score: 2) by umafuckitt on Friday September 19 2014, @07:38PM
I remember the dog paper when it came out. Superficially there's nothing obviously wrong with it, but I still don't really believe it. It's too weird and too improbable. I suspect there's some other uncontrolled effect in the mix.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 19 2014, @08:13PM
The speculation as to why is there. You just missed it is all.
From the article:
It is still enigmatic why the dogs do align at all, whether they do it “consciously” (i.e., whether the magnetic field is sensorial perceived (the dogs “see”, “hear” or “smell” the compass direction or perceive it as a haptic stimulus) or whether its reception is controlled on the vegetative level (they “feel better/more comfortable or worse/less comfortable” in a certain direction). Our analysis of the raw data (not shown here) indicates that dogs not only prefer N-S direction, but at the same time they also avoid E-W direction. The fact that larger and faster changes in magnetic conditions result in random distribution of body directions, i.e., a lowering of the preferences and ceasing of the avoidances, can be explained either through disturbing or conscious “shutdown” of the magnetoreception mechanism. From the two putative mechanisms that are discussed in birds and other vertebrates (radical-pairs and single-domain or superparamagnetic particles [30,31]) both might account for the observed alignment of the dogs and their sensitivity to declination changes.
An answer may lie in the biological meaning of the behavior: if dogs would use a visual (radical-pair based) magnetic map to aid general orientation in space as has been proposed for rodents [32], they might have the need to center/calibrate the map now and then with regard to landmarks or a magnetic reference. Aligning the map and the view towards North (or South) facilitates reading the map. Furthermore, calibration only makes sense when the reference is stable and reliable. We might think of this the same way as a human is stopping during a hike to read a map. When the map is blurred or the reference (perceived magnetic direction) is dispersed or moving due to magnetic disturbances, however, calibration is impossible. In the case of the dogs it thus would totally make sense to not pay attention to magnetic body alignment any more under conditions of a shifting magnetic field.
(Score: 2) by EvilJim on Monday September 22 2014, @03:32AM
Yeah, I dont think this one is correct. my old flatmate had a dog that would walk in circles while pooping, could have been directly over magnetic vortices bout I somehow doubt it. pretty sure he was always walking clockwise... lets figure out a theory for that.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Friday September 19 2014, @03:41PM
These prizes (and the usual commentary around them) just seem anti-science to me. Is there really any unknown portion of this universe that we shouldn't be studying? Just because it involves dogs pooping we shouldn't investigate their behavior?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Lagg on Friday September 19 2014, @04:17PM
Anti science would imply that they are trying to get them to stop studying such things. As it is making fun of them is fine because it's funny. Plus as far as I know these prizes are specifically meant to award unusual or trivial accomplishments. So if anything it brings more attention to the finer points of the universe people are studying and with it some humor.
http://lagg.me [lagg.me] 🗿
(Score: 2) by mojo chan on Saturday September 20 2014, @12:17PM
It's more a problem with the way low grade media outlets like newspaper and TV news report it. A lot of the research is actually quite useful and interesting. There was one years ago where someone discovered that cows with names produced more milk than those without. Actually it was a comprehensive study of the treatment of farm animals and the effect on produce.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 19 2014, @04:38PM
Given the surprisingly high rate of attendence of honorees to accept the award on stage, this event strikes me as something closer to the NFL's "Mr. Irrelevant" (an event poking fun at the last player selected in the draft, who is considered unlikely to make the roster) than let's say the Razzies. Everyone has a good time.
(Score: 2) by mendax on Friday September 19 2014, @11:11PM
It's a shame there was no Peace Prize this year. I'd nominate Vladimir Putin and Kim Jong-un for that distinction, although the Stalin Peace Prize might be more appropriate.
It's really quite a simple choice: Life, Death, or Los Angeles.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 20 2014, @10:02AM
Actually seems like a perfectly serious line of research, as pareidolia [wikipedia.org] is actually fascinating. Why do we humans see things the way we do? Research grants spent on illuminating how and why the human perceptive system works is money well spent in my book.