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posted by janrinok on Friday September 19 2014, @06:02PM   Printer-friendly
from the they-said-it-would-never-happen dept.

Andrea Germanos, at Common Dreams - USDA's Greenlighting of 'Agent Orange' Crops Sparks Condemnation

Following widespread outcry, Dow's new genetically engineered corn and soybeans get approval.

The U.S. Department of Agriculture's decision this week to approve two new genetically engineered crops is being denounced by watchdog groups as a false solution to herbicide-resistant weeds and a move that threatens human and environment safety alike.

The crops are Dow AgroSciences' Enlist corn and soybeans, engineered to be resistant to its Duo herbicide, which contains 2,4-D, a component of the notorious Agent Orange. 2,4-D has been linked to Parkinson's, birth defects, reproductive problems, and endocrine disruption. Dow states that the new system will address the problem of weeds that have become resistant to glyphosate, the active ingredient in Monsanto's widely-used Roundup.

...

“Farmers have been sold the lie that they can increase yields and prevent crop failure from weeds by buying Monsanto’s and Dow’s GMO seeds and dousing them in toxic poisons, also manufactured and sold by Monsanto and Dow," Cummins continued. "But just as scientists predicted, these 'miracle' crops are evolving to resist the poisons thrown on them, causing the USDA and the EPA to approve increasingly toxic poisons to fight increasingly resistant weeds. Where does the escalation end?"

So I think I'm gonna go buy a farm and plant some heirloom crops. If I can't trust the food i buy to not poison me; who should I trust?

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  • (Score: 3, Informative) by VitalMoss on Friday September 19 2014, @06:40PM

    by VitalMoss (3789) on Friday September 19 2014, @06:40PM (#95585)

    Looks problematic, but how do we stop farmers (who are inevitably looking to make a living/turn a profit) from utilizing this? I mean, from what I know of the Monsanto/Dow groups, they have a pretty large monopoly on GMO Crops and Pesticides. In this case, we would either need a systemic disassembling of the companies, or rather government regulations ensuring that they aren't allowed to act in this manner.

    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by ScriptCat on Friday September 19 2014, @07:03PM

      by ScriptCat (4389) on Friday September 19 2014, @07:03PM (#95593)

      Agreed, this is not Reddit. How toxic is this other product compared to round up?
      Maybe we can use reason and logic. It's an extreme position, I know.
      Also, I always disliked the whole "OMG it gots GMO in it, there's deamons running all through me!!!"

      http://www.kernred.com/kern-agcomm/products/2,%204-D%20AMINE%204%20HERBICIDE.pdf [kernred.com]
      http://www.roundup.com.au/materials-safety-data-sheets [roundup.com.au]

      • (Score: 2, Interesting) by ScriptCat on Friday September 19 2014, @07:12PM

        by ScriptCat (4389) on Friday September 19 2014, @07:12PM (#95601)

        The MSDS for the 2, 4-D seems to indicate a harsher chemical but this may be because one is industrial concentration vs the consumer version of round up. Any chemists out there have better info?

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Blackmoore on Friday September 19 2014, @07:20PM

      by Blackmoore (57) on Friday September 19 2014, @07:20PM (#95606) Journal
      Small time farmers understand this; it's the big factory farms who are all about yield and cost per yard.

      but i like the idea of disassembling of the companies to correct this.
      • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Hairyfeet on Friday September 19 2014, @07:53PM

        by Hairyfeet (75) <{bassbeast1968} {at} {gmail.com}> on Friday September 19 2014, @07:53PM (#95621) Journal

        Uhhhh...what small time farms? I live smack dab in the middle of the south, farms everywhere, and other than a handful of really old guys whose farms couldn't feed an entire apt building most of 'em got wiped out in the 80s and 90s by the big ugly ultracorps buying the small banks and making sure the farmers couldn't get the loans required for planting causing them to go bust so supermegacorp could snatch the land cheap. Don't remember Farm Aid? John Cougar's "Rain On The Scarecrow"? Those causes went away because the little farmers got wiped out, kinda hard to have fundraisers to save something already extinct.

        --
        ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
        • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Blackmoore on Friday September 19 2014, @09:30PM

          by Blackmoore (57) on Friday September 19 2014, @09:30PM (#95672) Journal
          Well I live in and around the rural north, and there was some effort by the big factory farms; but since we don't have as long of a growing season I can still find small farms. a lot of them are up for sale; and for lots of reasons.  The organic ones are doing ok; because they can charge for the premium.  most of them are having trouble due to low cost per bushel of $farmproduct$  as the factory farm drive that lower and lower.

          on the other hand i can get 6 acres of farm for a decent price..
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 19 2014, @09:53PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 19 2014, @09:53PM (#95681)

            Define decent price. With farmland around here at well over $10K/acre and cash rent prices going through the roof, the only way you can survive is economy of scale.

          • (Score: 4, Interesting) by edIII on Friday September 19 2014, @11:03PM

            by edIII (791) on Friday September 19 2014, @11:03PM (#95696)

            As somebody on the west coast, organic and non-gmo is about as big as you can get it. It's everywhere, including the menus at restaurants.

            Prices are sky high too, and people are paying them somehow. Of course, I'm talking Whole Foods and other chains.

            What's bigger than that is the growing popularity of farming yourself and sharing seeds. I've been to some county fairs and it's all about the opportunity to share seeds and buy starter crops, including animals that are more disease free.

            I currently grow about 3/4 of the vegetables I eat on a daily basis, and about a 1/5th of the meat I consume. The rest is all organic and non-gmo stuff. For about $2,000 you can get entire gardens set up with automatic drip watering now. Might take 1 or 2 hours a day, and saves some serious damn cash.

            I got about $100 in raspberries on my counter right now that only took about 1 hour total of work in the last few months...

            Growing your own vegetables pays. Literally.

            --
            Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
            • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Hairyfeet on Saturday September 20 2014, @08:46AM

              by Hairyfeet (75) <{bassbeast1968} {at} {gmail.com}> on Saturday September 20 2014, @08:46AM (#95792) Journal

              Yep works great...for rich white people. But sadly rich white people are going the way of the 8-track to be replaced by poor every color living paycheck to paycheck and they can't afford to whip off 2k, no matter how much it saves down the line, because they are lucky if they even have a job what with the offshoring and the illegal disposable people and all.

              There is a good reason why America is obese, its because they live on "processed food product" and its because they are too poor to buy the good stuff and too damned tired to cook everything from scratch with what shitty GMO veggies and hormone pumped meat they can get! I should know because if it weren't for the missus insisting on making "real food" for me I frankly wouldn't even know what it tastes like, because after putting in a full day at the shop AND having to ferry around the youngest who is autistic AND trying to get a little time to play my bass or relax with a game if I'm very VERY lucky? I just don't have the energy to fix anything more complex than a frozen pizza!

                Must be nice to have the time to grow your own garden, the missus wants to do that too some day but right now we live in an apt so that just ain't happening. Glad you have that much dispoable income, I hope you have a decent nest egg as you never know when the fates may screw you, good luck!

              --
              ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
              • (Score: 2) by edIII on Saturday September 20 2014, @06:56PM

                by edIII (791) on Saturday September 20 2014, @06:56PM (#95934)

                When you troll, don't try so hard. I've seen you do better than this.

                We deserve better trolling from you. Get your game face on. Please.

                :)

                --
                Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
                • (Score: 2) by Hairyfeet on Saturday September 20 2014, @10:19PM

                  by Hairyfeet (75) <{bassbeast1968} {at} {gmail.com}> on Saturday September 20 2014, @10:19PM (#96017) Journal

                  Pointing out that the average person in America doesn't have 2k+ in money lying around nor the land to build a custom greenhouse is "trolling" to you? Wow must be nice to live such a sheltered life, I bet you could relate to Mittens talking about how he had to drive an "ugly car" in HS, the horror, having to try to drive a luxury sedan in a shitty color! Oh it must be nice to have only white people problems.

                  --
                  ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
      • (Score: 1) by cannonfodder on Saturday September 20 2014, @01:09PM

        by cannonfodder (4092) on Saturday September 20 2014, @01:09PM (#95837)

        Actually higher yield keeps the price down when the farmer brings his crop to market. So the small farmers want to maximize yield too, just to keep up with the large farms. Otherwise the small farmers income would suffer.

    • (Score: 1) by art guerrilla on Saturday September 20 2014, @11:29AM

      by art guerrilla (3082) on Saturday September 20 2014, @11:29AM (#95813)

      ahh, Bt-killed grasshopper, you are missing the kapitalist imperialist forest for the GMO tree...

      *besides* being intrinsically eee-vil (opinions are like assholes...), monsanto et al (with not much of an al), are enacting a Big Agra vision which controls the farm industry from seed to shelf... (but *nothing* like the vertical 'integration' (read: control) of industries which was legally deemed eee-vil for quite some time, *nothing* like that, say the Big Agra PR flacks...)

      essentially, monsanto et al use unka sam and the treaties/'loans'/agreements, etc we impose on poor schlub nations to force them to abandon locally dispersed subsistence farms, with livestock, etc; and dedicate 100% to exportable crops which do nothing to feed the family...
      further, domestic banksters and Big Agra co-conspirators, DEMAND farmers use these systems and the concomitant dedication of huge sums of money, total investment in 'modern' fertilization and tillage regimes/equipment, sopping the place with (expensive) herbicides, insecticides, etc, and deprecating local, small-scale, low-footprint, self-sustaining, community-feeding farms...

      it won't be long until 'heirloom'/open-pollinated varieties will be outlawed for home gardens, as we present a 'terroristic threat' to Big Agra's frankenseeds...

      Empire must fall,
      the sooner the fall,
      the gentler for all...

      oh, and 'golden rice' is more myth than panacea...

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by camaro on Friday September 19 2014, @06:47PM

    by camaro (584) on Friday September 19 2014, @06:47PM (#95587)

    I think this kneejerk, reactionary commentary needs to stay away from SN. First of all, while 2,4-D was an ingredient in Agent Orange, it is certainly not Agent Orange itself. Secondly, it's first commercial use was in 1945 and it's use is still wide-spread as a selective broadleaf herbicide. By comparison, glyphosate didn't hit the market until the 1970s, so I would hardly call 2,4-D "increasingly toxic."

    • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 19 2014, @07:07PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 19 2014, @07:07PM (#95598)

      Older does not mean less toxic. Increasing usage of something that is not used as much is increasing toxicity.

    • (Score: 5, Informative) by MrGuy on Friday September 19 2014, @07:14PM

      by MrGuy (1007) on Friday September 19 2014, @07:14PM (#95603)

      More specifically...

      Agent Orange was a mixture of two pesticides, 2,4-D and 2,4,5-T, one of which (2,4-D) is referenced in this story.

      Most of the toxic effects [wikipedia.org] due to Agent Orange are related to 2,4,5-T (and a particularly nasty contaminant related to the manufacture of 2,4,5-T.) The US National Pesticide Information Center has some detailed information [orst.edu] on 2,4-D, and specifically references 2,4-D as being the component that was NOT responsible for the acute toxic effects of Agent Orange.

      That's not to say 2,4-D is completely harmless (no pesticide is), but agree with parent it's more than a bit scaremongering to claim "OMG, Agent Orange in the food supply!" from this.

    • (Score: 4, Informative) by mcgrew on Friday September 19 2014, @07:18PM

      by mcgrew (701) <publish@mcgrewbooks.com> on Friday September 19 2014, @07:18PM (#95604) Homepage Journal

      Indeed, I came here to say the same thing. Agent Orange was deadly not because of the 2,4-D but because of the dioxin. Dioxin has been outlawed for decades, it's some really nasty stuff. Guys I knew who were in Vietnam and got sprayed with the stuff all died of cancer, every one of them.

      As to the health effects of eating food that has been treated with 2,4-D, there are none whatever. 2,4-D amine salts and esters are not persistent under most environmental conditions.

      The only one who's going to get Parkinson's or any other disease from this stuff is a careless farmer.

      However, I think the story belongs here; biology and chemistry are certainly nerdy subjects.

      --
      mcgrewbooks.com mcgrew.info nooze.org
      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Hairyfeet on Friday September 19 2014, @08:04PM

        by Hairyfeet (75) <{bassbeast1968} {at} {gmail.com}> on Friday September 19 2014, @08:04PM (#95630) Journal

        The bitch with Agent orange is that everybody talks about the poor dead and mutilated Vietnamese babies and nobody talks about the little fact that THEY ALSO SPRAYED AMERICANS IN AMERICA with that shit in the 60s!

          You go about 30 miles north of here and start looking in the graveyards and what do you see? A TON of dead babies between 1964-1974, reason? Titan missile silos. You see they had the hills in states like AR and TN filled with missile silos for a "gotcha last" figuring the Soviets wouldn't waste a first shot on states with low relative populations compared to NY and CA so they put a ton of silos up there only to find out there is a reason why the south is full of farms, because shit grows fast here! So they used Agent Orange on the silo grounds to keep the weeds back while ignoring the fact that most of those small towns got their water from wells which quickly got contaminated all to hell by Agent Orange. Result? Tons of dead babies, lots of retardation and physical ailments.

        So while I have every sympathy with the people of Vietnam I hate the fact that nearly every article on the subject always starts with Nam, when the reality is the douchebags in government was using that shit on our own soil before a single drop ended up hitting the Ho Chi Minh trail.

        --
        ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by VLM on Friday September 19 2014, @10:22PM

          by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Friday September 19 2014, @10:22PM (#95688)

          With all due respect, I agree the stuff isn't good for you in an abstract sense, however, right under those defoliated launch silo hatches, the fuel and oxidizer the Titan 2 and later used were not exactly mothers milk. "Covering up" some leaks could explain a lot. This is the old "hear hooves, think horses not zebras" We used defoliants all over the place, even up north, under power lines, on the coasts, stuff like that. But we only put hypergolic propellant in those areas you reference, and worse, that was the era when the modern safety rules for those propellants was being figured out the hard way...

          • (Score: 3, Informative) by Hairyfeet on Sunday September 21 2014, @10:58AM

            by Hairyfeet (75) <{bassbeast1968} {at} {gmail.com}> on Sunday September 21 2014, @10:58AM (#96246) Journal

            Up north you had city water, down south they were drinking water straight from the well...just like the people in Vietnam did. Also we can be relatively confident it wasn't the fuel because we saw what happened when that leaked, they blew the fuck up [encyclopediaofarkansas.net] quicker than a tipped over V2. That explosion was less than 30 miles from my hometown and I can tell you they were crazy careful about leaks specifically because of how easy it was to turn the place into a fireball but from what I've been told by folks that worked there back in the day they just went nuts with the Agent orange, that shit would be rolling down the hill like a fog thanks to the massive amount they would spray...and at the bottom of the hills was the creek that fed into the major aquifer so I have no doubt every time it rained the well water was practically full of that shit.

            --
            ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
        • (Score: 2) by mcgrew on Saturday September 20 2014, @01:26PM

          by mcgrew (701) <publish@mcgrewbooks.com> on Saturday September 20 2014, @01:26PM (#95842) Homepage Journal

          Indeed. In their defense, though, they didn't understand how deadly the stuff was, much like the PCBs they used for transformer oil that linemen were exposed to for decades before dying of liver cancer, or asbestos that used to be in every building, used in automobile brake linings, etc, or leaded paints and gasoline.

          Dioxin, with and without 2,4-D, was widely used everywhere. They used it everywhere they wanted all the vegetation gone. It wasn't a matter of evil, it was a matter of ignorance. We simply know more now.

          --
          mcgrewbooks.com mcgrew.info nooze.org
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 20 2014, @05:59PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 20 2014, @05:59PM (#95908)

            linemen[...]dying of liver cancer

            I don't remember seeing that particular correlation.
            If a transformer is leaking, it's likely to arc internally and/or overheat.
            A properly constructed unit won't do any of that.

            Was there a high incidence somewhere of folks plinking transformers?

            PCBs they used for transformer oil

            Now, workers in the transformer|capacitor factories, as well as regular folks who simply had the bad luck of being downstream of a factory that just dumped its waste willy-nilly, *were* susceptible.

            -- gewg_

          • (Score: 2) by Hairyfeet on Saturday September 20 2014, @09:48PM

            by Hairyfeet (75) <{bassbeast1968} {at} {gmail.com}> on Saturday September 20 2014, @09:48PM (#96009) Journal

            This is true, just look at how in WWII all those captains and admirals had their offices on board lined with asbestos for fire proofing, many that survived the war ended up getting killed by breathing all that garbage. My mom used to have a medical book from the 50s from when she first started nursing and it was fucking SCARY how ignorant we were back then, basically anything they didn't have a clear treatment for? Use the miracle of the atom! And the amount of rads these folks were getting were fucking insane, mom said some of them they had to bury in lead lined caskets because their bodies were too radioactive to be placed in a regular coffin! Mom said back then she went to many a funeral of those that died from cancer and you could tell in the winter which ones had been treated by "the miracle of the atom" because you'd look across the graveyard and there would be the perfect online of a casket on the ground where the snow wouldn't stick, the bodies were THAT hot!

            --
            ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
    • (Score: 5, Informative) by Blackmoore on Friday September 19 2014, @07:27PM

      by Blackmoore (57) on Friday September 19 2014, @07:27PM (#95609) Journal
      The Knee jerk reactionary commentary (from me)  is mostly due to my distrust of Monsanto; and the way it is functioning in the food supply.

      I don't know the chemistry ; that i will give you - but i can't trust a company that makes GMO crops and then sues farmers who's crops get cross pollinated from another farm down the way.  And why would you belive that dumping more poisons into the ground will result in less weeds? it always ends in more resistant weeds; and more likely more allergic reactions to the food that was treated with those chemicals (it isnt the gluten you are reacting to)

      And as a bonus.. you are talking about the subject. 
      • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Friday September 19 2014, @10:10PM

        by Gaaark (41) on Friday September 19 2014, @10:10PM (#95684) Journal

        ^^^This. For me it is a matter of non-trust. No matter how much they may say 'this is safe', I can't bring myself to believe it.

        It is like the birth control pill, here in Canada: the government said 'this is safe', then found it caused cancer. Teh solution; lower the dosage.

        'Now, this is safe', except it caused cancer in people who smoked (which was every teen back then). Solution: lower the dosage.

        'Now, this is safe'. Yeah. Pull the other one (use your left hand: you'll feel like a new man).

        Non-trust.

        --
        --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 19 2014, @07:53PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 19 2014, @07:53PM (#95623)

      I'd say that moving to older herbicides, ones that are related to banned substances, might well be called "increasingly toxic."

      We can hope that the newer, more extensively researched and specifically developed herbicides would be less toxic.

    • (Score: 2) by moo kuh on Saturday September 20 2014, @12:15AM

      by moo kuh (2044) on Saturday September 20 2014, @12:15AM (#95708) Journal
      According to this summary on Cornell's website [cornell.edu], it might not be as bad as the summary claims, but it still sounds terrible for humans. Apparently it can cause birth defects in animals, which includes humans.
  • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 19 2014, @06:57PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 19 2014, @06:57PM (#95589)

    The chemical escalation ends when people realize their food is more poisonous to them than to the "pests". But I do not believe this will come soon, or at least in the next few decades. Ask in a smoggy city what are people's priorities and pollution will not be higher on their list than in a cleaner, less smoggy city. People get used to pollution, cancers, and disease and treat it as "normal".

    So I think I'm gonna go buy a farm and plant some heirloom crops. If I can't trust the food i buy to not poison me; who should I trust?

    You don't need a farm. Start with a garden and grow your own vegetables. You'd be amazed about the scarcity of backyard gardens in the US, especially southern US where they can grow vegetables year round. And I'm not just talking about some tomatoes or carrots, but more staple foods like potatoes. If you spend a few minutes in your garden every day, there is no way pests can overwhelm* it. Potato beetle? Clean up the leaves from the larvae and adults. Some fungus on your tomatoes? Cut off those parts and eat the good parts. You don't care if your produce looks perfect, just good enough. And they taste much better.

    Don't forget about fruit and nut trees. Those things keep on giving, for generations with little upkeep. They just take patience and planning and people that care to pick the fruit. Search the internet how many urban fruit trees are being wasted because no one cares to pick up the fruit like they did 50 years ago (the trees can be 80 years old and planted for purpose of providing free food with *some* effort to collect it)

    * aside about pests, the only time when my cabbage ended up being "shotgunned" by bugs overnight was thanks to nearby farmer collecting the entire canola crop and all the bugs on his sprayed field migrated over. If there is something more damaging to environment than our monoculture farming practices, I have yet to find it.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 19 2014, @09:04PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 19 2014, @09:04PM (#95662)

      I tried growing potatoes last year - paying myself $5/hour to weed the garden, those potatoes cost easily $10/lb.

      • (Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Friday September 19 2014, @10:57PM

        by hemocyanin (186) on Friday September 19 2014, @10:57PM (#95695) Journal

        I spent about an hour a few days ago picking up the hazelnuts that had fallen under my three trees. 8.2 pounds and the trees are still loaded. I'll be picking up 3x that I'm sure. Anyway, that's 35.75/hr which isn't shabby (using the 5lb price here: http://www.nuts.com/nuts/hazelnuts/in-the-shell.html [nuts.com] )

        I'm sure I probably did as badly as you on the potatoes, but they do taste really good. Probably the most profitable vegetable, if you want to think about it that way, is winter squash. If you use plastic mulch and set up drip irrigation for it, there really isn't anything to do between planting and harvesting. Snow peas are a good thing too, they cost a ton in the store, but they grow fast, produce so much you'll get sick of them, and once established, crowd everything else out.

        As for the OMG, never again crop, I'd have to go with wheat. I had this dream of making a really home-made wheat beer this year. I planted a 10' x 30' row. First, about 75% of the wheat fell over in a hard rain, then I had to cut it and let it dry for a while. Threshing it took ages (I cut the heads off the stalk, put them in a cloth bag, then used a board to pound these, then a hair dryer to blow the chaff, and then hand picking). This was sooooo not worth it. I have 1722g (not enough for a batch, but I'm going to try malting it now anyway) and probably 10 hours into that. My hops are great though and very low maintenance.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 20 2014, @05:40PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 20 2014, @05:40PM (#95904)

        Weeks before planting, cover the ground with dark plastic sheeting.
        Let the sun bake it for a while to sterilize the soil of pathogens.
        When you plant, cut holes ONLY where you are putting the seeds/seedlings and make those only as big as absolutely necessary.
        Alternatively, mulch.

        Drip irrigation also saves water and works well with this method.

        -- gewg_

  • (Score: 5, Funny) by MrGuy on Friday September 19 2014, @06:59PM

    by MrGuy (1007) on Friday September 19 2014, @06:59PM (#95591)

    ...is Genetically Modified People who are resistant to the pesticides. Problem solved!

    • (Score: 1, Offtopic) by strattitarius on Friday September 19 2014, @07:53PM

      by strattitarius (3191) on Friday September 19 2014, @07:53PM (#95624) Journal
      And for those of us that already have our genes set, we can just soylent* the noobs and hope that gives us some immunity!

      *For the pedantic, I verbed** it so no capitalization.

      **Yes, verbed is a word. See also, verbification.
      --
      Slashdot Beta Sucks. Soylent Alpha Rules. News at 11.
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 19 2014, @09:24PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 19 2014, @09:24PM (#95669)

    Um, 2,4-D is already one of the most common herbicides applied to corn crops (and other grasses). It has been for decades. The person who wrote this article is completely clueless.

  • (Score: 2) by zeigerpuppy on Saturday September 20 2014, @01:29AM

    by zeigerpuppy (1298) on Saturday September 20 2014, @01:29AM (#95724)

    This summary is so full of half truths to be embarrassing. Just to mention one: it's not the crop which becomes resistant to the herbicide (after all that was the whole point of the genetic manipulation), it the competing weeds that change to make the herbicide less effective.
    It seems there's been quite a bit of obvious crud slipping past the editors lately. At least most of the soylentils commenting seem to have reasonable responses.
    To make it clear, I agree that monoculture agriculture with high inputs of petrochemicals is not the path to food sustainability but this article does nothing to improve the quality of debate; to the editors, please edit!

  • (Score: 2, Interesting) by ah.clem on Saturday September 20 2014, @01:32AM

    by ah.clem (4241) on Saturday September 20 2014, @01:32AM (#95725)

    As someone else pointed out 2,4-D is a common herbicide, in use since the mid 1940's, and can be found in many applications. Unfortunately, while this article might have been a helpful analysis of a DOA decision, it really contains quite a bit of hyperbole, in my opinion.

    According to the EPA, 80% of the corn produced in the US is used for feed (cattle, chicken and fish), 12% is directly consumed by humans as corn or HFCS and the other 9% is used as industrial additives. As for soybeans, 65% is directly consumed and the remaining 35% is used in industry.

    Now, I am fortunate enough to be in a position to purchase organic produce, organic meats and eat a fairly healthy diet and I have a local farmer's market for fresh veggies in season. But it is expensive, and not everyone can afford to do so (and at times I even have to back off on purchases or make different food decisions because I can't afford it) but I take a lot of time prepping our food from whole, fresh ingredients. The only cans you will find in our pantry are some tomatoes and albacore tuna, and you won't find any boxes of stuff except popped rice cereal. But that does take time, so meal prep requires an hour or so; I try to cook enough for 2 days at a time to reduce my kitchen prep time. I usually read or practice music while the actual cooking is going on.

    Sadly, GMO (and gov't subsidies) keeps food prices low in the US; dropping GMO would reduce overall productivity (lower yields) and result in higher prices - it's kinda simple and highly political - you and I have no chance of making any difference in this deal - money trumps everything). I am no fan of Monsanto or corporate farming, but the reality is, food is both cheap and expensive, depending on your financial perspective, and I think that 2,4-D is a bit of a red herring; I think the real issue is the price of decent food and the lack of basic food preparation skills, coupled with fast food joints on pretty much every city corner, coupled with television ads selling really unhealthy food for really little money (get rid of your cable it's sucking your brain dry, but that's a different topic, sorry). It always amazes me that there isn't a class in 1st or 2nd grade that teaches kids how to eat right, how to tell their parents not to feed them crap. But then again, where I live so many kids are on free and reduced lunch that most of the school takes food home for the week-ends. That's the real travesty in America in my opinion, not someone bitching and moaning about additives.

    I"m no expert on food additives, but I do know that the less your food is fucked with to start out with, the better it is for you. But how do you feed 8 (soon to be 9) billion people? Hell, how to you get the low SES folks in your community to eat a decent, healthy diet when there are no stores in the city, not a decent vegetable to be found anywhere in the neighborhood, ask someone to feed a family of 4 for a month on approximately $120? If we really gave a shit about food and nutrition, we wouldn't be making people choose food over rent. We really are a pretty useless society. Volunteer at a food bank or a low SES school and see what we are, then talk to me about food additives. Sorry, got into a bit of a rant. Old guys are allowed.

    In any case, I think article is a bit alarmist and not exactly "fair and balanced".

    • (Score: 2) by opinionated_science on Saturday September 20 2014, @03:40PM

      by opinionated_science (4031) on Saturday September 20 2014, @03:40PM (#95876)

      I tend to agree, and would like to apply the common laboratory designation of "concentration and contamination".

      If you spill sulphuric acid on yourself, how much matters, but concentration matters more. Many of these chemicals are not a problem, so long as they can be washed (like all natural produce) there is simply not enough to make a difference. The food itself is often more toxic!!!!

      The productivity of modern agriculture is not linear - technology makes a huge difference between traditional methods. GMO is just a more efficient method of refining agriculture.

      It is an important correlation that increased energy usage per human drops the birthrate, suggesting that the more modern societies become the less food becomes a problem....