from the honesty-is-still-the-best-policy dept.
Courtesy The Intercept.
The Israeli government just released a list of the most popular baby names in Israel. In a move reminiscent of the old South African Apartheid, they SPECIALLY left ALL Muslim sounding names off the list. Only when asked by the Haaretz newspaper why there weren’t any Arab names on the list did government officials admit that the most popular baby name in Israel is in fact "Mohammed", not "Yosef."
The Intercept explains:
The rationale for this is the belief among many Israeli politicians that Jewish-Israelis must constitute a clear majority of the national population, and that any large increase in the population of indigenous Palestinian Arabs (already at 21 percent), sub-Saharan Africans, or other minority populations is potentially a threat to the “character” of the state.
(Oh yeah, Just in case you think that Haaretz is anti-Jewish, their front page also includes Saturday Night Live’s 'Top 10 Jewish Moments'.)
(Score: 5, Funny) by Buck Feta on Thursday September 25 2014, @03:44PM
> their front page also includes Saturday Night Live’s 'Top 10 Jewish Moments'
Well that sounds like a bastion of rigorous journalism.
- fractious political commentary goes here -
(Score: 4, Insightful) by cbiltcliffe on Thursday September 25 2014, @04:06PM
the most popular baby name in Israel is in fact "Mohammed"
The impression that I have, as a white male North American (not American....North American) who is probably shortly going to be labelled as racist, is that there are very few "Muslim" names, and even then, they're mostly variations on an even smaller number of names.
Mohammed, Muhammed, Ahmed, Hamid, Hamed, etc.
Maybe it's the way the media works in North America (although I generally try to get some news from other parts of the world, too) but the impression we're left with is that a huge swath of Muslim people share the same 2 or 3 names.
So, you can take a neighbourhood with 200 Muslims, 200 Jews, and 200 Canadians, and you'll end up with 150 different "Canadian" sounding names, maybe 100 or so different "Jewish" sounding names, and 8 different "Muslim" sounding names. Of course that's going to lead to a high count of the Muslim names. Out of the 200 Muslim people, 100 of them are going to be named Mohammed.
I may be wrong, and have been severely misled by all the media I've tried to use to get my impression of the world. If I am, please feel free to provide me and other readers with a cross section of "Muslim" sounding names that aren't related to these common few.
(Score: 5, Funny) by LoRdTAW on Thursday September 25 2014, @04:21PM
"... and you'll end up with 150 different "Canadian" sounding names, ..."
You can always tell a Canadian name by its suffix. Here a a few really stereotypical Canadian sounding names:
Johnson-eh
Muhammad-eh
Azarov-eh
Wong-eh
Capello-eh
Wozniak-eh
Dubois-eh
etc.
(Score: 2) by davester666 on Thursday September 25 2014, @06:47PM
who the hell modded this "informative"? course, it's funny as hell....
(Score: 4, Funny) by quacking duck on Thursday September 25 2014, @09:30PM
People always mis-spell our country's name.
It's actually "Cnd", but when we spelled it out for cartographers they thought the "eh"s after each letter was an "A".
(Score: 3, Interesting) by gman003 on Thursday September 25 2014, @04:28PM
Part of the problem is Arabic naming conventions. Most of the world uses a two-name system - family name and personal name. Different cultures may use a different order, of course, and additional names may be given but are not frequently used in practice.
The Arabs use a much more complex naming system. I don't pretend to understand it fully, but it's not uncommon for people to have five names. I would imagine, then, that there's much less need for each of those names to be as varied as our own.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by frojack on Thursday September 25 2014, @07:51PM
Not to mention one or more honorariums "kunya," [slate.com] - titles like Abu and Bin.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 2) by LoRdTAW on Thursday September 25 2014, @04:29PM
"Arabic first names" on Google: http://www.behindthename.com/names/usage/arabic [behindthename.com]
And of course Muslims are more than just Arabs so there are plenty of ethnic name pools to draw from. Two Pakistani brothers at work: Shabaz and Ghafar.
(Score: 3, Funny) by bob_super on Thursday September 25 2014, @04:32PM
I'm thinking that it's exacerbated in Israel by the need to defend their Muslim identity. Since the system will structurally prevent them from blending in, they reaffirm their existence as a minority by calling their children after the big names in their history.
You only see "Brythnyy" and "Kewynn" in bored people looking to feel different and original, not in people fighting a group who denies their identity.
It must be convenient to be a teacher in Gaza (if you can find a classroom), because you can always tell Mohammed to quiet down even if you haven't yet figured out who's talking.
(Score: 1) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 25 2014, @04:32PM
And out of 200 Latinos (who are traditionally conservative Catholics), 100 of them are going to be named Jesus. Your point?
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 25 2014, @05:03PM
Out of 200 suburban white girls, 100 of them will be named Jennifer.
(Score: 4, Funny) by bob_super on Thursday September 25 2014, @05:11PM
Nope, Jhyniffyrr
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Friday September 26 2014, @02:32AM
No, no, no. "Gwenhwyfar". Some people's spelling...
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by LaminatorX on Thursday September 25 2014, @05:17PM
The Jeniffer tide has long since receded, actually. The boom in Jennifers that many ofGen X'ers grew up with was a consequence of the popularity of the film, "Love Story" in the 70's.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by dublet on Thursday September 25 2014, @04:50PM
I could mod you but here goes instead..
The impression that I have, as a white male North American (not American....North American) who is probably shortly going to be labelled as racist, is that there are very few "Muslim" names, and even then, they're mostly variations on an even smaller number of names.
Seriously? Just because you haven't had much exposure with these other cultures? That's like an Arab saying that all Westerns have the same name, there's so few and all Bible based: Joe/Joseph, David, John, Simon, Christian, Michael, James, Jacob, Daniel, Benjamin, Matthew. They sound "American"/"Canadian" to your ears but most of those are in fact Hebrew. Are there even Canadian names? Almost all are either Hebrew, Germanic, old Norse, old English, Greek, Latin, Gaelic, etc..
There is a high proportion of Mohammeds, because that is an important figure in their religion, it's similar to the amount of Jesus' in Latin countries. Just taking the most popular first names for men in Egypt, you'll find some familiar ones but probably also some you won't have heard before: Mohamed, Youssef, Ahmed, Mahmoud, Mustafa, Yassin, Taha, Khaled, Hamza, Bilal, Ibrahim, Hassan, Hussein, Karim, Tareq, Abdel-Rahman, Ali, Omar, Halim, Murad, Selim, Abdallah.
Notably Youssef/Joseph/Joe is a very popular name in at least 3 main cultures.
A useful wiki article with a list of common names and their etymology can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_popular_given_names [wikipedia.org]
I hope your argument is due to ignorance not due to malice but please expose yourself to other cultures a bit more.
"If anyone needs me, I'm in the angry dome. [dublet.org]"
(Score: 4, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 25 2014, @05:00PM
No way, last time I exposed myself to other cultures I was arrested.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 25 2014, @05:36PM
According to that wikipedia page, the most popular names in Canada are those of popular movie stars. Sad, really...
(Score: 2) by forsythe on Thursday September 25 2014, @07:03PM
Or could it simply be that popular names haven't changed that much in a generation or two, and it is therefore more probable for a random movie star to have a popular name than an unpopular one? In other words, could it also be that the most popular names in Canada are those of middle managers?
(Score: 3, Interesting) by DeathMonkey on Thursday September 25 2014, @05:26PM
The impression that I have, as a white male North American (not American....North American) who is probably shortly going to be labelled as racist, is that there are very few "Muslim" names, and even then, they're mostly variations on an even smaller number of names.
There are more men named James & John living in the US than the entire population of Israel. I think it is a perspective thing...
ref 1 [google.com]
ref 2 [mongabay.com]
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Thursday September 25 2014, @08:50PM
Just because we have 40x their population, half of which is non-Jewish? Perish the thought.
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 2) by BasilBrush on Thursday September 25 2014, @06:41PM
The impression that I have, as a white male North American (not American....North American) who is probably shortly going to be labelled as racist, is that there are very few "Muslim" names, and even then, they're mostly variations on an even smaller number of names.
Mohammed, Muhammed, Ahmed, Hamid, Hamed, etc.
I don't know whether you are right or wrong. But you are irrelevant. Such a difference would be no excuse for the Israeli government censoring all Muslim sounding names from it's list. It is yet another example of Israeli racism and apartheid, and there is no excuse for it.
Hurrah! Quoting works now!
(Score: 1) by dpp on Friday September 26 2014, @12:11AM
Well, I read what you wrote and can't imagine why you'd be labelled racist for writing it.
I think that you onto the reason - naming conventions in a given group.
I don't think you'll find a high percentage of Christians naming their children Jesus or...I don't doubting Jews name their children Yahweh (or whatever equivalent).
Not saying the Bible/Torah doesn't probably inspire a lot of naming, various times in North America (I'm also a North American), names like: Peter, Paul...hehe Mary! John, Luke, Matthew. All very popular. Not saying it's always related to religion, but at the past I think it was more common.
Re: Population/#s - ~20% of Israel is Muslim
According to the infallible ;) wikipedia, only about 20% of the population of Israel is non-Jew and Muslim.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel [wikipedia.org]
So.... Just thinking you're probably onto something.
Then again, I don't know how many Jews name their children Mohammed in Israel.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 26 2014, @03:52AM
Quite a lot of Christians are named Jesus, especially in Mexico and other Latin American countries.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 25 2014, @04:19PM
The way they treat other people makes me almost hope the final solution would have worked...
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 25 2014, @04:22PM
They learned from the best.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 25 2014, @04:50PM
Funny, the top name for boys in the *United Kingdom* last year was also Mohammed.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/most-popular-baby-names-the-top-20-boys-and-girls-names-in-england-and-wales-9671635.html [independent.co.uk]
Ah the joys of multiculturalism.
http://www.operatorchan.org/m/src/139965569163.jpg [operatorchan.org]
(Score: 2) by elf on Thursday September 25 2014, @05:13PM
Depends how you count
Your article says
"Muhammad is the most popular babies’ name in England and Wales, when its three main spelling variations are counted."
The actual list is slightly different
http://www.babycentre.co.uk/a25008171/top-baby-boy-names-2013 [babycentre.co.uk]
Statistics...you have got to love them :)
(Score: 2) by nukkel on Thursday September 25 2014, @05:37PM
As Gaddafi once famously said: "We will conquer the West not with guns but with the womb."
(Score: 2) by BasilBrush on Thursday September 25 2014, @08:01PM
Yes, I'm sure those 7400 UK Mohammeds will conquer the west. Idiot.
Hurrah! Quoting works now!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 25 2014, @11:39PM
I can only speak from observing my own family, but I think the Mexican Americans can mount a pretty good defense against that strategy.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 25 2014, @04:57PM
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Jiro on Thursday September 25 2014, @07:10PM
Because we all know that labelling a list of non-Muslim names as just names is the same thing as segregating everything from education to beaches, not letting people become citizens, and forcing black people to live in particular areas.
Funny how nobody ever claims the Gaza Strip is apartheid for not permitting any Jews to live there at all.
(Score: 1, Troll) by BasilBrush on Thursday September 25 2014, @08:04PM
Jewish Israelis built and police the wall, idiot.
Hurrah! Quoting works now!
(Score: 1) by Arik on Friday September 26 2014, @05:56PM
Not completely inconceivable that Hamas (opposed to Fatah) has such a policy but seems quite likely I would have heard of it if they did. Certainly there are jews in the west bank, indigenous Palestinian jews, relatively few in number at this point for obvious reasons, but they do exist. Per the PA charter anyone who was a legal resident prior to 1948 or descends from someone who was, regardless of religion, is considered a Palestinian, and I recall seeing more than one jew holding high positions in the PA.
The biggest difference is that in the PA (like the rest of the world) jew is defined as a follower of the jewish religion, separate from ethnicity, while in Israel it's treated in a very muddled way, sometimes as a religion but simultaneously as if it were an ethnicity as well. To illustrate the bizarre implications of this, consider that a man who is 100% ethnic slav, a lifelong atheist from Moldovia, whose mother briefly converted to judaism before giving birth, would be considered a jew with 'right of return' to a land he has never set foot in, and none of his known ancestors ever set foot in, while indigenous Israeli families that have lived in the area since Biblical times, who at some point converted to Islam or Christianity, are not, and are considered 'foreign invaders' who need to be 'expelled' instead.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 26 2014, @12:19AM
Over on pol [4chan.org] we've been talking about things like this for a while now.
Come over when you feel like finding out how deep the rabbi hole goes
(Score: 2) by etherscythe on Friday September 26 2014, @03:49PM
I see what you did there
"Fake News: anything reported outside of my own personally chosen echo chamber"