AlterNet reports:
So, hey, let's say you're an old guy in a tiny town in central Wisconsin. Old, like, seventy-five, let's say, and the tiny town is farm country where you have a twenty-acre plot of good old American heartland. Now, let's say that the municipality hasn't appreciated the fact that you've kept your tractors out on the land you own and even went so far as to get a judge to level thousands of dollars of fines on you for not putting your toys away, because that's apparently a thing that can happen. Now let's say you've been ignoring these civil fines for some time. Under those conditions, would you expect this to show up on your lawn?
Yes, along with a couple dozen SWAT officers, 75-year-old Roger Hoeppner had his property assaulted by a BearCat armored vehicle for the crime of not keeping things as tidy as the local government would like and refusing to pay the fines they levied.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by cyrano on Saturday November 01 2014, @10:54AM
The USA is becoming a totalitarian state fast. And you're loosing the battle, people!
The quieter you become, the more you are able to hear. - Kali [kali.org]
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 01 2014, @11:48AM
Not to worry, this is Wisconsin, original home of Joe "red baiting" McCarthy, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_McCarthy [wikipedia.org] . It's not the way the rest of the country works.
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 01 2014, @12:31PM
And you're loosing the battle, people!
I think the battle is more like tightening!
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/loose [wiktionary.org]
(Score: 2, Funny) by mcgrew on Saturday November 01 2014, @02:23PM
And you're loosing the battle, people!
Set the battles free! Is English your second language? You didn't say what you thought you said.
mcgrewbooks.com mcgrew.info nooze.org
(Score: 2) by cyrano on Sunday November 02 2014, @07:57PM
Yes, English isn't my mother tongue. I'm sorry. This is something the spell checker obviously doesn't catch. And I still get confused between English and the North American idiom/spelling.
And shouldn't that be loosening in stead of loosing? ;-)
The quieter you become, the more you are able to hear. - Kali [kali.org]
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Monday November 03 2014, @02:04PM
I'm glad I can help. "Loosen" means to make less tight, "loose" means to set free. Also, there are a LOT of spelling mistakes in English that spell catchers won't catch. Example: Dew knot truss yore spill checker.
mcgrewbooks.com mcgrew.info nooze.org
(Score: 2) by Dunbal on Saturday November 01 2014, @11:35AM
Dear government, we seem to be running out of budget for some reason. Please send more cash.
(Score: 5, Funny) by WizardFusion on Saturday November 01 2014, @11:36AM
This was also reported by "Lowering The Bar" blog - http://www.loweringthebar.net/2014/10/armored-vehicles-needed.html [loweringthebar.net]
It's a great blog, showing the ridiculous things the american state gets up to.
The current top story is "TSA Confiscates Ray-Gun-Shaped Belt Buckle"
(Score: 5, Informative) by ls671 on Saturday November 01 2014, @11:54AM
They might have had some intelligence on this guy. But then again, how well does a "BearCat military armoured response vehicle" handle mines?
Either you do it diplomatically. either you do it professionally with the use of force. Call in the pros in this latter case.
Many local authorities have fucked up in the past even without those fancy toys. In Canada, a guy shot and killed a cop that busted into his house at night without proper protocol. He was more or less acquitted with a plea of self defense linked to incorrect protocol being used by the local police forces.
He his the only guy who ever killed a cop and walked free after being prosecuted and admitting killing the cop that I know of.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basil_Parasiris [wikipedia.org]
Everything I write is lies, including this sentence.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday November 01 2014, @12:22PM
They might have had some intelligence on this guy.
Then send two people instead of one, if it's that much of a problem.
Either you do it diplomatically. either you do it professionally with the use of force. Call in the pros in this latter case.
SWAT isn't "pro" in this case and they didn't do it professionally.
(Score: 2) by ls671 on Saturday November 01 2014, @12:28PM
SWAT isn't "pro" in this case and they didn't do it professionally.
That was my whole point.
Everything I write is lies, including this sentence.
(Score: 2) by ls671 on Saturday November 01 2014, @12:34PM
I should have wrote "in the latter case. Sorry about that ;-(
Everything I write is lies, including this sentence.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday November 01 2014, @01:20PM
(Score: 2) by ls671 on Saturday November 01 2014, @02:18PM
I would be interested in seeing what protocol they used ;-)
Everything I write is lies, including this sentence.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 01 2014, @11:10PM
TCP
Terrorist Cop Protocol
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by Adamsjas on Saturday November 01 2014, @08:03PM
There was some intelligence, the guy has a long history with the town.
But you will never get that information from a gewg post.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 01 2014, @11:12PM
How about you post a link to it then instead of doing exactly what you complain about gweg doing and leaving out the useful information?
(Score: 5, Interesting) by geb on Saturday November 01 2014, @12:25PM
The courts and the local judge seem to have made a ridiculously big deal about the tidiness of this guy's land. It's there that the fault lies. Sending the cops to confiscate tractors because you don't like where they are parked? WTF?
Once the police got their orders though, I don't think they behaved irrationally. Isn't there a quote the gun nuts like to use, about firearms making everybody equal? If he is potentially armed, you treat him as somebody who is potentially armed. It doesn't matter if he's old, or feeble, or easily scared. Equality cuts both ways.
(Score: 1) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 01 2014, @01:28PM
Have you ever actually lived next to a property piled high with old, rusting tractors and other machinery? Have you ever lived next to a property piled high with unusable lumber and garbage? Have you ever lived next to a property covered in uncut grass and weeds?
It isn't pleasant, let me tell you! It's even worse when you were living in the area first, somebody new moves in, and a formerly nice properly goes to hell.
First there's the smell. If there's lots of old machinery, it starts to smell toxic. You have gasoline, oil, other chemicals, degrading rubber and rust mixing together in a cocktail that smells atrocious. Then wild animals get in here and die due to the dangerous nature of the environment. They start to rot, and decaying creatures smell pretty damn bad when they do this. This smell wafts over to your property, getting into your home. You'll wake up in the middle of the night with your bedroom smelling of dead bodies, even with the window closed!
Then there's the danger of fire, especially if wood is stockpiled, and it's an area that's relatively dry. All it takes is one spark to light the dried, uncut grass on fire, which quickly spreads to the piles of wood, which spreads to your neighbor's house, which can then easily spread to your fence, and finally your house. Trust me, people aren't happy when their homes are smoldering ruins thanks to a catastrophic fire that started over at the dirty neighbor's yard.
Maybe you didn't notice it, but these are problems that the neighbor's can't easily avoid. Nor should they have to move, especially if they've been living there decades before the person with the trashed yard moved in and ruined it. The only solution is for the filthy neighbor to clean up his or her mess. That's the only viable option!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 01 2014, @03:07PM
Mod the parent up! Truer truths couldn't be written!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 01 2014, @04:01PM
I was thinking along the same lines. We dont know the other side to this story. Anyone have a google maps of the place in question?
Is it horderville or is it old guy with a couple of tractors out. My guess is horderville with a bunch of 'fuck yous' thrown in. Plus some years long 'bad blood'. Hence the over the top response.
The response was retarded though. You will see more and more of this until we calm the hell down with our 'wars'. These guys are coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan used to doing flashbang knock and swarm tactics. The real issue is poor training and realizing they are dealing with civilians who can and will and have the right to embarrass you on the 6 o'clock news for using military grade tactics on what is little more than a property dispute. Cops have for a long time had a saying "I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6". They now have military training with decent military equipment and military experience. They are using it. They see every person out there as a potential that will gun them down. Their training has badly failed for the new situation they are in.
You either work in the system or the system brings out the big guns and puts you back into your place. It has always been true. It may seem 'worse' now but it is more public as it can shoot across the internet instead of buried on page 8 of the local paper.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 01 2014, @05:31PM
It's a 20 acre estate. The tractors and pallets are visible from the road, but it's not like his neighbors are tripping over the cinder blocks while walking their dogs.
(Score: 0, Troll) by Ethanol-fueled on Saturday November 01 2014, @04:43PM
I'm from the Imperial Valley, an agricultural community, where everybody doesn't only have one or two rusting tractors but their own junkyards. It's actually pretty convenient because you can easily find a driveshaft or A-arm if yours breaks. People there trade parts all the time and save a shitload of money doing so.
Yes, it's often not pretty, but then again America is about having your own land and doing what you want with it -- not property values and looking pretty for the uppity Asians running the HOA.
(Score: 2) by dcollins on Saturday November 01 2014, @02:49PM
So... SWAT teams and BearCats for everything, everywhere?
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Arik on Saturday November 01 2014, @07:27PM
No?
You dont think police are supposed to think about whether what they are ordered to do is right or wrong? Just do what they are told like good little stormtroopers?
They went out with a SWAT team to enforce a *civil* judgement that obviously should have never been granted, but set that aside for the moment. Why do we have a SWAT team enforcing a *civil* judgement in the first place?
There's not just one level of absurdity here, it's level upon level.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 02 2014, @06:52PM
The police's job is to enforce the law, not question or interpret it. Whether the law is unjust is not for the police to decide, thats the responsibility of the courts. Like the GP said, if he is potentially armed then they should respond the same way they always do when encountering potentially-armed suspects. Thats what equality means.
The fault lies with whomever ordered the SWAT team, but once it was ordered then the police have a responsibility to do their job.
(Score: 2) by Common Joe on Monday November 03 2014, @06:31AM
If that is the case, then why bother to separate the legislative and executive branches at all? And while we're at it, we can merge the judicial in there too. After all, if the judicial system to merely to interpret and apply the law, just lump 'em in with the other two. It would be economically cheaper.
No thank you. I think the guys who came up with the 3-tier checks-and-balances thing were on to something even if we're screwing it up pretty badly right now.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by SuperCharlie on Saturday November 01 2014, @02:04PM
Sad thing is.. Im not surprised any more by these type things. And maybe thats the bigger point, that at any time, for any reason, if you piss off the wrong people, you can have SWAT, quasi-military, blackhawk, drone to come by and say "hi".
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 01 2014, @03:46PM
This dispute between the county and landowner has been going on for 6-7 years.
Take a look at the wooden pallets stacked up on the man's property [jsonline.com] behind the BearCat; that's what residents had to drive by every day, and the owner apparently refused to do anything about.
Would you be OK if your neighbor's property looked like that for years on end?
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 01 2014, @03:59PM
LOL! All of the hypocrites here babbling on about "freedom" and downmodding comments like yours and that other one that point out how uncivilized this sort of yard is would be the first to whine and bitch about it if it happened next door to them. Just like the "social justice warriors" that they are, they never hold themselves to the same standards that they try to hold others to.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 01 2014, @04:00PM
Would you be OK if your neighbor's property looked like that for years on end?
Where I grew up (in a poor rural area) a lot of places looked like that. I don't think it ever occurred to anyone to complain, so long as the junk stayed inside the property lines and didn't breed rats. It's his property. It's not a health hazard to me. You want to see something offensive? I've got a neighbor whose car is covered with rightwing bumper stickers. Now that's offensive. But I wouldn't sic the SWAT team on him.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 01 2014, @04:21PM
Freedom of expression is "offensive" to you? Huh?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 01 2014, @11:17PM
> Freedom of expression is "offensive" to you? Huh?
No. But expressing offensive ideas is offensive.
Don't try to wrap that bullshit in the 1st amendment. You have the right to say the shittiest things, and I have the right to judge you for it.
Don't conflate judging you and sicing a SWAT team on you.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 02 2014, @03:34AM
It's really strange that you find freedom of expression to be "offensive". Are you a Taliban?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 02 2014, @06:56PM
The Taliban are right-wing. The GOP and Taliban share a lot of the same principles and ideals.
(Score: 1) by Username on Saturday November 01 2014, @05:19PM
The local newspaper for marathon county is the Wausau Daily Herald, not the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. You can tell by the MJS's use of proper grammar, in depth reporting and journalistic integrity that it is not from Marathon County. Also they are about 200 miles apart.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 01 2014, @05:53PM
Depends, do I live on a rural farm with 10-20 acres between me and this "eyesore"? If the issue is really the cosmetic appearance of the place, then wouldn't SWAT have been better to escort in a cleaning crew to remove the offending pallets than to escort the 75 year old man to the bank and watch him empty his retirement fund into the city coffers?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 02 2014, @03:10AM
So, the local gov't FINED him, but the situation that they're all pissed off about still persists.
In most cities|suburban track housing areas, after ignored warnings, the authorities will send out a crew to clean it up and send the owner A BILL for the services.
...and there's no need for cops at all.
The workers trucks will have markings identifying them as gov't employees.
This gov't wants money for doing nothing.
Clearly, governments in Wisconsin (can you say "Scott Walker"?) are massively incompetent...leaving one to assume that the majority of people in Wisconsin are incompetent at choosing public servants.
-- gewg_
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 01 2014, @07:10PM
Would you be OK if your neighbor's property looked like that for years on end?
What's the problem? It's his property, as long as there's no real hazard to other people why should I care? I doubt the junk is close enough to his neighbours that if the pallets catch fire it'll be a problem to them.
If you don't like the way his property looks, make sure your property doesn't look like his property and spend more time looking at your own property.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Arik on Saturday November 01 2014, @07:23PM
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 01 2014, @07:30PM
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 06 2014, @06:33PM
Have to agree with the other AC. There's nothing that looks particularly abnormal about that, certainly nothing that would indicate a SWAT team raid.
(Score: 2) by urza9814 on Thursday November 06 2014, @06:52PM
If you really think that's worth putting someone's LIFE at risk, there is something VERY wrong with you...
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Username on Saturday November 01 2014, @05:34PM
The guy will be dead or at least sent to a home in about 5~10 years. What was the big rush?
If he would have just put up a gate and hid the pallets behind the trees, the cops would have never seen any of it from the highway or be able to drive down to where they can see them.
There are plenty of businesses that leave pallets out by the street in Wausau. This guy is only being targeted because the police have a grudge against rural "hicks."
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Yates on Sunday November 02 2014, @11:31PM
Here's an overhead view of the state of the property in September 2013: Satellite view [google.com]
Assuming the linked article is correct and he actually does own a contiguous 20 acre plot there, that means he owns both of the houses surrounded by junk and the junkyard on the west side bordering the highway: Area Calculator [mapdevelopers.com]
Interestingly the street view [google.com] is from September 2008 and shows no pallets or other junk in front of the main house as compared to the satellite picture and the picture [typepad.com] from the blog post linked to by WizardFusion above.
I don't know whether something happened to turn him into a hoarder [wikipedia.org] or if he decided to start collecting pallets to piss off the local county officials, either way sending a swat team and a armored vehicle after this guy was definitely not the right way for this to be resolved.