Kate Briquelet reports in the NY Post that Principal Mark Federman of East Side Community HS has invited the New York Civil Liberties Union to give a two-day training session to 450 students on interacting with police. “We’re not going to candy-coat things — we have a problem in our city that’s affecting young men of color and all of our students,” says Federman.
“It’s not about the police being bad. This isn’t anti-police as much as it’s pro-young people . . . It’s about what to do when kids are put in a position where they feel powerless and uncomfortable.” The hourlong workshops — held in small classroom sessions during advisory periods — focused on the NYPD’s stop-and-frisk program and how to exercise Fourth Amendment rights when being stopped and questioned in a car or at home.
Some law-enforcement experts say the NYCLU is going beyond civics lessons and doling out criminal-defense advice. “It’s unlikely that a high school student would come away with any other conclusion than the police are a fearful group to be avoided at all costs,” says Eugene O’Donnell, a former police officer and professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice. NYCLU representatives told kids to be polite and to keep their hands out of their pockets. But they also told students they don’t have to show ID or consent to searches, that it’s best to remain silent, and how to file a complaint against an officer. Candis Tolliver, NYCLU’s associate director for advocacy, says was the first time she trained an entire high school. “This is not about teaching kids how to get away with a crime or being disrespectful. This is about making sure both sides are walking away from the situation safe and in control.”
(Score: 5, Insightful) by aristarchus on Monday November 24 2014, @06:14AM
“It’s unlikely that a high school student would come away with any other conclusion than the police are a fearful group to be avoided at all costs,” says Eugene O’Donnell, a former police officer and professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice.
O'Donnell seems to imply that this is an incorrect perception! Anytime the police are objecting to students being taught their constitutional rights, it is not all that unreasonable to conclude they should be avoided at all cost.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by quadrox on Monday November 24 2014, @06:29AM
In the us my very few interactions with the police have been pleasant enough, but back here in Europe, my conclusion is that all police are either power hungry assholes, and/or lazy careless bastards. Just last night I had an unmarked police car pass me by, just to switch to my lane and slow down, forcing me to break. I used my horn, then they stopped me by turning on their fancy lights. They demanded to know why I was using my horn, and walked up to me displaying their gun ready to draw, and generally behaved as if they owned the land. They hassled me with all the checks they are legally allowed to make, but admittedly they didn't go further than that.
And just to be clear, I am dressed like your typical office worker with shirt and all, so it isn't like I was looking like someone especially dangerous.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 24 2014, @07:32AM
Where is back here in europe, don't just put us all in one basket.
(Score: 2) by quadrox on Monday November 24 2014, @07:46AM
Mostly my experiences are from Denmark and Germany.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by cubancigar11 on Monday November 24 2014, @07:59AM
I had consistent bad experience all over France. I am Indian. I have been stopped, taken over to police station, one policemen started behaving as if he has caught a criminal in front of others, passport taken for 'inspection' (and then returned after 10 minutes), taken to railway station where my stuff was in the locker and asked to show what was in it (nothing but dirty socks that smelled so bad, they refused to check other bags :p), handcuffed for an hour then released.
In Germany, policemen have only stopped me to check ID and then left me alone, but I also had good encounters - once in Frankfurt I was confused which S-Bahn to take and was running all over the station trying to figure it out (I spoke no German then) when a policewoman came and helped me out.
(Score: 2) by Jeremiah Cornelius on Monday November 24 2014, @06:06PM
Cops are killer gangs. NYPD? Ask Frank Serpico [politico.com].
You're betting on the pantomime horse...
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Monday November 24 2014, @03:16PM
I'm going to have to conclude that you are mostly if not entirely white. Because dressing like a typical office worker when you're black often does you no good at all (black friends of mine are very clear about this point).
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 3, Informative) by mcgrew on Monday November 24 2014, @05:14PM
I got pulled over for "driving while black" in Florida, and I'm white. They pulled me over because the passenger was black, asshole cop wanted to search the car. I told her to get a warrant, she had no reason to believe there were drugs in the car or any other criminality. I'd have sued the shit out of them for a civil rights violation if they'd gotten the warrant, but she just let us go.
mcgrewbooks.com mcgrew.info nooze.org
(Score: 2) by Jeremiah Cornelius on Monday November 24 2014, @06:11PM
I live and drive almost daily on the "California Autobahn" where 80 Mph is standard.
Unless you're black. Right at 65 - 'cause it's just not worth the hassle. And then, there's always Oscar Grant, not quite in the back-of-mind.
You're betting on the pantomime horse...
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Monday November 24 2014, @05:10PM
In the us my very few interactions with the police have been pleasant enough, but back here in Europe, my conclusion is that all police are either power hungry assholes, and/or lazy careless bastards.
I would bet you're white. There is an awful lot of racism in the US, just look at Ferguson, or the cop in the northeast who was filmed shooting a black man. Most cops are cowardly bullies. The firefighters are a city's true heroes, risking injury or death to save people.
Only cowards carry guns unless there's a war.
If you're white and respectful, they won't bother you, but google for "driving while black".
just to switch to my lane and slow down, forcing me to break.
That was finny! I do realize that English probably isn't your native language since you're European and the US school system is abysmal. It's "brake". Damned homophones!
mcgrewbooks.com mcgrew.info nooze.org
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 24 2014, @06:13PM
In the UK, you are not supposed to use your horn except in very specific circumstance. The one you describe was not one of them, and could be considered misuse.
(Score: 2) by quadrox on Monday November 24 2014, @08:31PM
You are absolutely correct. However, while I do my best to remain calm while driving, there is only so much bullshit you can take in a day. I had had my fill already, and I overreacted - bad luck that it happened with a police car.
But none of that is truly relevant to the topic, the police still behaved quite unprofessionally, and they did their best to inconvenience me as payback for pointing it out.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 24 2014, @07:08AM
I'm far more afraid of the police ruining my life than criminals.
All it takes is ticking a cop off and your life can literally be over.
And they'll get away with all of it too.
Police are not your friends. They are not on your side. They are not there to help you.
Avoid interaction with them if possible.
They have an 'us vs. them' mentality.
And you're not an 'US'.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by lizardloop on Monday November 24 2014, @12:33PM
This is why I would encourage police officers to attend the classes with the students. Part of the problem is kids only seeing police when things have gone wrong, and police seeing kids only when they need to arrest them. Increasing the amount of time they both spent together without conflict I would hope get them to treat each other a bit more humanely when things do go wrong. In the end maybe that would end the "us and them" mentality of both sides.
(Score: 2) by naubol on Monday November 24 2014, @01:21PM
Oh I really didn't expect to think someone would say something this genius.
Police might start to understand the psychological harm their actions can cause in the name of 'safety'.
(Score: 1) by NotSanguine on Monday November 24 2014, @02:47PM
Part of the problem is kids only seeing police when things have gone wrong, and police seeing kids only when they need to meet their arrest quotas [huffingtonpost.com] .
There. FTFY.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 1) by Wrong Turn Ahead on Monday November 24 2014, @07:15AM
Don't talk to the police. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc [youtube.com]
(Score: 1) by Wrong Turn Ahead on Monday November 24 2014, @07:17AM
Correction: *obligatory*
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Monday November 24 2014, @12:59PM
Also obligatory: "How to not get your ass kicked by the police? [youtube.com]"
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 1) by anubi on Monday November 24 2014, @07:53AM
I get the strong idea its probably best to co-operate fully and get it over with.
You may *think* you have rights, but trying to exercise them is likely to get you scrutinized with a fine tooth comb.
Show me six lines written by the most honest man in the world, and I will find enough therein to hang him. [bartleby.com]
We have so many laws these days, selectively enforced, that I am sure any officer can pull quite a few out to decide to enforce them on you.
I believe we have already surrendered our rights, but we are allowed to keep the illusion so the public does not go into uproar.
You know, how to slow-cook a frog...
It will probably be far easier on you to just take what he needs to dish out. Give him a reason and he may unload a whole day's frustration right at you.
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
(Score: 2) by fnj on Monday November 24 2014, @09:09AM
Richelieu said that. To be fair, a WHOLE LOT more people were hanged in France in Richelieu's day than now, and it was a whole lot easier to BE hanged.
(Score: 2) by pkrasimirov on Monday November 24 2014, @10:08AM
Giving up on essential liberties for temporary comfort doesn't end well.
(Score: 1) by unauthorized on Monday November 24 2014, @01:12PM
Define best. It may be advantageous to your short term comfort, but I question the long-term benefit of accepting the police state bullshit.
Oppression is a slippery slope. Every time you accept something, the oppressors demand a little bit more from you. You may be thinking that there are lines you wouldn't cross, and you may even be right, but you wouldn't be the first to fall for the trappings of the human mind in similar circumstances. You might be thinking that your leaders aren't going to go that far, but so did Rome, Germany and Russia.
The best way to fight degenerative social change is to stomp your foot and say enough is enough while you still have the ability to do so at a mere inconvenience. Once it becomes acceptable to prosecute "dissidents", it takes far more than that to set things right. The danger is real, if not under the current political elite's reign then the next or the one after that. All it takes is one guy in the right(wrong?) place at the right(wrong?) time.
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Monday November 24 2014, @05:07PM
To use an example, if a cop pulls you over and asks you where you are heading and asks to search your vehicle, you can:
- Consent: "Sure officer, come right in and take a look. I was headed from 123 Spooner Street to my work at Acme Enterprises on 4930 Elm Street."
- Cooperate but not consent: "I am headed to work, but I do not consent to any searches."
- Not cooperate: "Help me out here, why did you pull me over?"
- Disrespectful: "What do you want, you f***** pig?"
- Violent: *bang*
In general, when dealing with police in the US, you want to be somewhere between "Cooperate but not consent" and "Not cooperate". For questions other than "What is your name and address?" you are not required to answer (for that one question, whether you have to answer depends on what state you're in), and if you are going to answer it is wise to just answer the question asked and not volunteer any other information.
You don't want to consent: Cops can find things you didn't put there. Maybe somebody was riding with you and something they shouldn't have had fell out of their pocket, and congratulations that's now in your possession. And of course the cop can plant and then "find" contraband if they brought some with them.
You don't want to be disrespectful: Cops assume if you respond that way that you definitely have committed some crimes, and react accordingly.
You don't want to be violent: You will likely end up dead.
Similar sorts of techniques apply to police encounters on foot, or cops knocking on your door.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 2) by cafebabe on Monday November 24 2014, @06:19PM
People wonder where police get surplus contraband on the assumption that contraband is "confiscated" for personal profit. Well, I knew of a man who got arrested for having 12 cannabis plants. The police asked him to sign a confession for his six cannabis plants and the judge was lenient towards him during the trial regarding his two cannabis plants. Obviously, there's a shortfall of 10 plants here but police officers cannot be caught dealing drugs and are subject to random drug tests so they cannot consume the drugs themselves. However, surplus contraband helps attain an arrest quota and/or a prosecution quota.
1702845791×2
(Score: 2) by Joe Desertrat on Tuesday November 25 2014, @06:09AM
Few people understand the psychology of dealing with a ... cop. [youtube.com]
(Score: 1) by NewMexicoArt on Monday November 24 2014, @08:01AM
High school is too late. When police will kill an 11 year kid at a playground it shows that even elementary school kids need to know how to properly interact with the police.
http://www.ksl.com/?sid=32471076&nid=157&title=boy-with-fake-gun-dies-after-being-shot-by-ohio-officer&s_cid=queue-8 [ksl.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 24 2014, @07:16PM
An air pistol, not a fake, a BB gun to be specific, something dangerous enough that it didn't have an orange tip to remove.
There used to be advertisements by Daisy noting that failing to demonstrate personal responsibility was why parents wouldn't give children BB guns.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Monday November 24 2014, @08:57AM
§ 140.50 Temporary questioning of persons in public places; search for weapons. [state.ny.us]
1. Don't "talk" to the police. If you want to talk, ask questions, don't answer questions.
2. Record the encounter with a camera. The officer may choose to confiscate or break your phone/camera in order to destroy the evidence of the officer's wrongdoing. Let it happen. Ask for the camera back. If your camera is damaged or video is deleted, ask around for help and try a recovery utility.
3. In some states, you have to give your name, address, or ID if you are being detained.
4. If you see a stop and frisk, stop and record it if you have time. Keep at least 20 ft. away. Post it to YouTube.
5. If you are 15-30 or a black male, travel in a group.
6. File a complaint if you were detained for no reason. If the officer touches your camera, that's assault.
A legal question from me: when you are stopped and frisked in New York, is that different from a normal detention? When would you be forced to provide ID? When is Bill de Blasio going to restrain the cops?
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by fnj on Monday November 24 2014, @09:12AM
Whenever your armed masters feel like asking you for it.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday November 24 2014, @09:20AM
Just a guess: when it will suit his interest, not a moment earlier.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday November 24 2014, @10:16AM
"when you are stopped and frisked in New York, is that different from a normal detention?"
Of course it is. In a "normal" detention, the cop must be able to show probable cause. At the very least, he must be able to tell a judge that he had probable cause, even IF he refuses to share that probable cause with the "suspect".
Under "Stop and frisk" no cause was needed. No cause was expected. Young black men were targeted, and a quota had to be met. In effect, the sergeant at the precinct ordered his officers to stop 20 (or 100) young black men and frisk them, each day. They were stopped BECAUSE THEY WERE BLACK, and for no other reason.
If you were stopped because you were black, AND BECAUSE you looked stoned, that might be bad - but there would at least be the vaguest probable cause.
If you were stopped because you were black, AND BECAUSE you had a boom box on your shoulder, that might be bad again, but there is the faint excuse that you were appeared to be ready to disturb the peace with loud music.
I could go on all day - the point is, the need for probable cause was stripped away by the stop and frisk program.
(Score: 1) by takyon on Monday November 24 2014, @07:40PM
Thanks. I can't believe a court hasn't demolished this program yet.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Monday November 24 2014, @11:23AM
Bill de Blasio will probably end Stop and Frisk when some dope in the NYPD does it to his son (who looks 100% black), and not a moment sooner. as with most politicians nothing is real until it happens to you. and I say this as someone who has interacted with bill de blasio for years as he was my city councilman for years and lives around the corner from me in Park Slope, Brooklyn.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 1) by takyon on Monday November 24 2014, @07:38PM
You've got a unique way to be pessimistic. Good luck over there.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0, Offtopic) by isostatic on Monday November 24 2014, @10:12AM
This is not news for nerds. Is there a way to block this clickbait crap?
(Score: 1) by CirclesInSand on Monday November 24 2014, @10:22AM
I consider civics to be a respectable subject to discuss. It's not like they are name dropping political parties here (which I would consider to be mindless mob fodder).
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 24 2014, @11:05AM
news for nerds
That's a different site.
block this
It was clear from the title what the subject was.
You could have scrolled right past this story.
clickbait
The only problem here is YOUR lack of impulse control.
For the zillionth time, if you don't like the content, submit items that do suit you.
-- gewg_
(Score: 2) by sjames on Monday November 24 2014, @12:28PM
You know how you wake up in the morning and don't repeatedly smack yourself in the forehead with a hammer?
Apply that by not clicking on articles that don't appear interesting.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 24 2014, @05:47PM
You know how you wake up in the morning and don't repeatedly smack yourself in the forehead with a hammer?
Er...umm.... It's the only way I can wake myself up!!!
(Score: 2) by cafebabe on Monday November 24 2014, @06:27PM
I might try that technique because caffeine has moderate effectiveness.
1702845791×2
(Score: 1) by lentilla on Monday November 24 2014, @02:34PM
Maybe isostatic is right - it's not really news for true nerds. I personally don't have much interaction with the police because I don't like to get out much, well, except for that one time my Mom let them in the house and they knocked on the basement door. Man, I never knew you could shove that many empty soda bottles and Cheetos packets under a single bed.
(Score: 1) by srobert on Monday November 24 2014, @04:07PM
"This is not news for nerds."
Not exclusively. It's news for everyone and that includes nerds.
I outgrew "news for nerds". That's why I'm here instead of the other site.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 24 2014, @04:53PM
Yeah append this to your hosts file:
127.0.0.1 soylentnews.org
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 24 2014, @06:43PM
APK, is that you?
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Monday November 24 2014, @05:53PM
You know, one of the nice things about being white in the US is that you can choose not to think about the threat that cops present to you. Black and Hispanic people don't have that luxury.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 2) by Magic Oddball on Tuesday November 25 2014, @03:07AM
Only if you also don't have any developmental, sensory, or mental health conditions, or anything else that results in 'odd' behavior (like the loopy state diabetics can fall into). People in those categories tend to either react too slowly, have the 'wrong' body language, misunderstand what we're told to do, move too jerkily, or any of a dozen other "faults," and routinely end up tasered or shot.
(Score: 2) by kaszz on Monday November 24 2014, @11:43PM
Nerds carrying USB-memory may have them trashed, or being frisked on the way to a demo party, or just need an excuse to disrupt the playing field for the cops as the nerd IQ is likely higher than that of cops..
It's also an observation of the creepy encroachment of the police state into public life.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 24 2014, @01:16PM
“I will comply, but do not consent.”
At that point, the police office should be evaluating how the encounter will play out in court — they’ll probably still search you, but you will have preserved your standing for not having consented to the search.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 24 2014, @05:57PM
If you behave like a criminal, you're going to be treated like one. Comply with the officer courteously and get over it. If you did nothing wrong you'll be on your way. If you act like a smart ass you're going to give suspicions to them and get deeper into trouble. They are there for a reason, or would you rather they didn't exist and mob rule would be the law? In that case move back to some backwards country where you belong.
(Score: 1) by srobert on Monday November 24 2014, @06:40PM
You know what else is there for a reason? The Bill of Rights. In particular, the 4th amendment. If we acquiesce to having it violated out of fear, then we've already fallen down the slippery slope to fascism.
(Score: 1) by srobert on Monday November 24 2014, @06:48PM
Oops. Sorry I was mistaken. I looked up the 4th amendment and it reads this way:
"The right of white people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
That's funny I never noticed that it specified white people. But it makes sense that that is what the founding fathers must have intended.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 24 2014, @06:42PM
Thats the most stupid comment I have ever heard. They work for us. We pay them. You must be a cop !
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 24 2014, @06:55PM
Nope, but I've seen a lot. Make trouble and you're only making trouble for yourself. Only the troublemakers will have cynical comments about this.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 24 2014, @08:31PM
They work for you, you pay their wages, and you want to waste their time instead of letting them do their job as quick as possible? How would you like it if every person you encounter at your job wasted your time? Hope you get paid by the hour with no productivity quotas.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 24 2014, @09:01PM
If my primary responsibility at my job was to enforce the law and to uphold the Constitution and instead I constantly broke the law and violated the Constitution, I would expect to get called on that.
Your life is obviously one characterized by cluelessness and White Privilege. [wikipedia.org]
The opposite of that is being rousted routinely while walking on a public street and doing nothing wrong.
-- gewg_
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 24 2014, @09:36PM
You're obviously the one the cops are looking for.