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posted by janrinok on Wednesday November 26 2014, @03:14PM   Printer-friendly
from the I'd-prefer-the-data dept.

A ZDNet story explains that Niagarafiles, renamed as NiFi, will be released under the Apache license. The tool, which is conceptually derived from flow-based programming, is used for automating data flows across multiple networks, even where data formats and protocols differ.

The project's lead developer, Joseph Witt, said the NSA took great pains to develop the tool in a way that would eventually allow the agency to release its source code.

"From its inception, NiFi was developed with an open source philosophy in mind and with the hopes of eventually being truly open sourced," Witt explained.

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  • (Score: 2) by francois.barbier on Wednesday November 26 2014, @03:16PM

    by francois.barbier (651) on Wednesday November 26 2014, @03:16PM (#120282)

    I for sure won't touch this even with a 10km long pole.

    • (Score: 1) by Nerdfest on Wednesday November 26 2014, @03:23PM

      by Nerdfest (80) on Wednesday November 26 2014, @03:23PM (#120288)

      I will, if it's extremely well written. *Any* obfuscation in the code would make me extremely suspicious though.

      • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 26 2014, @03:41PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 26 2014, @03:41PM (#120294)

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        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 26 2014, @05:49PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 26 2014, @05:49PM (#120333)

          Guess the song:

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          We post goatse links,
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      • (Score: 2) by cafebabe on Wednesday November 26 2014, @05:00PM

        by cafebabe (894) on Wednesday November 26 2014, @05:00PM (#120316) Journal

        Greenspun's Tenth Rule Of Programming [c2.com] + What I could hide in that code = No thanks.

        --
        1702845791×2
      • (Score: 2) by edIII on Wednesday November 26 2014, @07:24PM

        by edIII (791) on Wednesday November 26 2014, @07:24PM (#120355)

        You sir, are brave. Also pretty confident.

        Considering some of the recent zero day exploits that were well hidden in open/free source projects for years, I cannot be so confident.

        This gives me great pause as I was ostensibly relying on the Nerdfest's of the world to be vetting the open/free platforms, and this has not turned out so well. For production uses, it works just fine. For security purposes we now live in a world of doubt.

        I dunno man. This is the *NSA*. Have you heard the story of the Scorpion and the Frog?

        Not to be mean, but the NSA can go screw themselves with a cactus. I don't think we can rationally accept anything from them period, and I would even go so far as to never hiring anyone that ever worked anywhere near the NSA. The NSA should congratulate themselves. For people that were trying to make us believe they were working on crypto for Americans and their prosperity and security, they sure did end up like a burned out drug addict that we can't trust anymore because they keep hurting us.

        They're information addicts that have been caught messing with the whole world :)

        Nope. No. Nada. Nyet....

        --
        Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 26 2014, @03:36PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 26 2014, @03:36PM (#120290)

      Why? Are you one of those people who'll pass up cutting-edge medical therapies for the homeopathic stuff because you just have a better feel about "natural" remedies?

      Do you have any idea how big the NSA is, and all the kinds of research that goes on there? Are you familiar with the way large organizations operate, and in particular how large research organizations operate? At a typical college or university, the chemistry department has little to no idea what the hell the sociology department is doing, let alone the geology department. You should know that Dean Wormer doesn't want to, nor is able to, inject himself into all the thousands of research programs that are going on.

      Whatever floats your boat. This is, after all, the age of being proud of one's ignorance in science and technology.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 26 2014, @03:40PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 26 2014, @03:40PM (#120293)

        Why?

        Well, this is a tool which is controlling data flows over multiple networks. Wouldn't you be suspicious that one of the networks the data flows to might be the NSA's network?

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 26 2014, @04:00PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 26 2014, @04:00PM (#120301)
      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by hemocyanin on Wednesday November 26 2014, @04:02PM

        by hemocyanin (186) on Wednesday November 26 2014, @04:02PM (#120302) Journal

        That's a terrible analogy. It is based on the assertion that the NSA's stuff is gold, and everything else is quackery.

        A better analogy would one that presents the NSA software as something has great technical qualities (ignoring all moral issues), but at the same time, because of who the author is, there is a real possibility that using it is risky, even potentially fatally risky. Finally, the issue being solved is not a hypercritical issue, it is neat and all that, but life will go on with out it.

        So, the new and improved medical analogy would be:

        This is more like you have a cold, call up your doctor's office to get an appointment on a soon-ish basis, and they tell you that the only doctor who can see you is Dr. Josef Mengele. You decide against taking the appointment, get some over the counter cough syrup at a supermarket, and just stick it out, because the cure could be far, far worse than the disease.

        • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 26 2014, @05:28PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 26 2014, @05:28PM (#120326)

          No, your analogy is just as poor. You're assuming there is only one author. You're arguing that you'll throw out entire treatment approaches, or whole hospital systems, because you don't trust the doctors in the pediatrics wing of a particular hospital. I think the university analogy is entirely appropriate. I wouldn't discount, or worse, claim immoral the materials science research at MIT because of racist or sexist proclamations coming out of some of the liberal arts professors.

          Again, many people seem to have really basic misunderstandings of many issues on this topic. If you are an American, then clearly you are an immoral POS who wants to spy on my personal business. You mean I cannot broad-brush you that way? You can't do that to an organization like the NSA, or NIH, or the University of California system, or Microsoft, or IBM, etc. What you get with the NSA issue is that it allows people to paint a circle of morality around themselves on this topic such that they can cast aspersions at anything on the other side of the line. It satisfies a basic human desire to make one feel good about themselves by putting the person next to them down, in much the same way that anti-abortionists act, or the interest people have in negative gossip, and here we can shit all over the thousands of people that work at that organization including the ones doing basic research, the summer students, the secretaries, etc. At one level I understand the reason people act that way, but ultimately I find it to be a very small-minded and ignorant way to live one's life, and I really question their critical thinking abilities.

          • (Score: 2) by Jeremiah Cornelius on Wednesday November 26 2014, @06:37PM

            by Jeremiah Cornelius (2785) on Wednesday November 26 2014, @06:37PM (#120338) Journal

            Then there's the fucking Nazi principle. Godwin be damned.

             

            "I mean, hey! The Nazis did good research! We can't let is just sit there unused, now they've lost, can we?" Paperclip asshats.

             

            NO! You don't use Nazi shit, on principle. That's defining the qualities of your own humanity. You don't use NSA shit, wherever consciously possible. On principle.

             

            --
            You're betting on the pantomime horse...
            • (Score: 2) by tynin on Wednesday November 26 2014, @06:59PM

              by tynin (2013) on Wednesday November 26 2014, @06:59PM (#120348) Journal

              The Nazi Principle sounds like one stern SOB.

            • (Score: 2) by tibman on Wednesday November 26 2014, @07:11PM

              by tibman (134) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday November 26 2014, @07:11PM (#120352)

              Using Nazi research is/was acceptable except for knowledge that was gained at the expense of someone else. Experimenting on other living humans as the big one. There were two arguments involved. Forbidding the use of that research creates little incentive for anyone to do that kind of research again. Not using that research means that all those people died horribly for nothing. Both sides have merit. Ignoring Nazi research on rockets, jets, and airplanes would be silly. What is unethical about better understanding rockets by studying Nazi engineering? Learning how to construct and launch rockets doesn't turn you into a Nazi or anything.

              --
              SN won't survive on lurkers alone. Write comments.
              • (Score: 2) by Jeremiah Cornelius on Wednesday November 26 2014, @08:16PM

                by Jeremiah Cornelius (2785) on Wednesday November 26 2014, @08:16PM (#120371) Journal

                "Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down?"

                --
                You're betting on the pantomime horse...
                • (Score: 2) by tibman on Wednesday November 26 2014, @09:31PM

                  by tibman (134) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday November 26 2014, @09:31PM (#120390)

                  Which was said by an actual Nazi. Has studying the V2 made the rest of the world into Nazis with that mindset? No.

                  --
                  SN won't survive on lurkers alone. Write comments.
                  • (Score: 2) by JNCF on Wednesday November 26 2014, @10:51PM

                    by JNCF (4317) on Wednesday November 26 2014, @10:51PM (#120411) Journal

                    Actually, it was sung by a jew making fun of a Nazi. Unless...

                    you don't mean...

                    Tom Lehrer is a Nazi? This is news to me. It's probably news to him too; somebody should let the guy know!

                    • (Score: 2) by tibman on Wednesday November 26 2014, @10:53PM

                      by tibman (134) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday November 26 2014, @10:53PM (#120414)

                      lol, nice. Never knew it wasn't an actual quote attributed to Braun.

                      --
                      SN won't survive on lurkers alone. Write comments.
              • (Score: 1) by itn on Thursday November 27 2014, @12:37AM

                by itn (4865) on Thursday November 27 2014, @12:37AM (#120459)

                Forbidding the use of that research creates little incentive for anyone to do that kind of research again. Not using that research means that all those people died horribly for nothing.

                The first one might be a pretty flawed argument. The experiments in question were done for the purpose of war. Someone who's willing to freeze people to death, in order to wage a war more efficiently, surely isn't that concerned about citations. More importantly, his leaders aren't. Besides, after you win the war, you get to write the history.

                Granted, this principle would not apply only to war, so I think there's some merit. But it will never stop something like the Nazi experiments.

                It's gruesome but I think there's only one question to ask: Will using the results make the society (or humankind) better or worse?

                What is unethical about better understanding rockets by studying Nazi engineering?

                Maybe the fact that the research and the results were used for killing a lot of people (far more than died in the hypothermia or pressure chamber experiments)?

              • (Score: 1) by monster on Thursday November 27 2014, @02:46PM

                by monster (1260) on Thursday November 27 2014, @02:46PM (#120607) Journal

                I disagree to the "Using Nazi research is/was acceptable except for knowledge that was gained at the expense of someone else." part.

                Knowledge is just that, it's neither bad nor good by itself. The Nazis did horrendous misdeeds, and are justly abhorred for that, but that doesn't mean that the insights they got in the process should be rejected or forgotten. Somehow, the argument is similar to "If a mobster gives money to charity, should the charity reject the money, even if there are no strings attached to it?"

                As you said, using knowledge acquired by the Nazis doesn't turn you into one.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 26 2014, @07:52PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 26 2014, @07:52PM (#120365)

              Outstanding. This reply couldn't be a better example of the GP post. So full of broad brushing and moral absolutionism that you just gotta love the caricature it makes. It simply has to be a post intending to be ironic.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 26 2014, @04:48PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 26 2014, @04:48PM (#120314)

      Well lets see it is a bit of software written by guys who like to track flows of data.

      I am positive it is very good at what it does. It is not entirely clear *what* it does other than 'prioritize data'.

      The NSA has a serious credibility problem. They are one organization trying to do 2 things. These 2 things are at perfect odds with each other. One is protect the infrastructure the other is to undermine it. To do one you need to do the other. Unfortunately it is easier to break things than fix them. Then for political reasons to leave them broken and not tell anyone they hurled a brick thru the window as they abscond away with the shoes.

      • (Score: 2) by bob_super on Wednesday November 26 2014, @11:05PM

        by bob_super (1357) on Wednesday November 26 2014, @11:05PM (#120422)

        It is the primary job of every military on the planet to protect national infrastructures while practicing blowing up the enemy's. They are related and not at all at odds...
        Did you check which department the NSA sits under?

        Conversely, the traditional military doesn't prep landmines under all national infrastructure, just in case they either have to take it back, blow up a wall to see inside, or in case buildings get exported... They are a lot more limited in their ability to weaken weapons made for export.

    • (Score: 2) by Bot on Wednesday November 26 2014, @05:03PM

      by Bot (3902) on Wednesday November 26 2014, @05:03PM (#120317) Journal

      Of course you don't touch it, because it's not under Affero GPL v3 or later.
      You wouldn't want your patches to mess with everybody else's freedoms, after all.
      /sarcasm

      --
      Account abandoned.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 26 2014, @05:13PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 26 2014, @05:13PM (#120320)

      Source code cannot harm you - there are no attack vectors via text files opened in editors like Kate or Notepad++.

      • (Score: 2) by arashi no garou on Wednesday November 26 2014, @05:23PM

        by arashi no garou (2796) on Wednesday November 26 2014, @05:23PM (#120321)

        What, no Emacs?

        *ducks*

      • (Score: 2) by Bot on Wednesday November 26 2014, @06:36PM

        by Bot (3902) on Wednesday November 26 2014, @06:36PM (#120336) Journal

        I admit mine was a subtle point, so I elaborate:
        The idea of minding about the freedoms to people given by affero gpl vs other licenses is irrelevant when the tool is used to gather data on people, because the tool operation ends up limiting their freedom, and it's not a question of good faith, it's dynamics.

        Information IS power.
        Information retrieval (to quote Brazil) IS increase of power for one entity.
        Increase of power for some entity IS increase of vulnerability for everybody else.
        Increase of vulnerability IS decrease of freedom.

        So, while releasing the source is relevant (and positive, minus the propaganda/honeypot aspects), minding about the OSS license version is minding whether the bullet aimed to your head is sterile.

        --
        Account abandoned.
    • (Score: 1) by Pseudonymous Coward on Wednesday November 26 2014, @07:47PM

      by Pseudonymous Coward (4624) on Wednesday November 26 2014, @07:47PM (#120363)

      How about NiagaraD? That provides a Niagarafiles implementation RIGHT inside of the SystemD package?!

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 26 2014, @09:08PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 26 2014, @09:08PM (#120383)

      What about Tor and SELinux?

  • (Score: 2) by M. Baranczak on Wednesday November 26 2014, @07:08PM

    by M. Baranczak (1673) on Wednesday November 26 2014, @07:08PM (#120351)

    My first thought was: since when did they let Ethanol edit submissions? Then I realized I just misread the headline.