The New York Times has published an interesting article about what the author believes to be the upcoming cashless society:
I’ve spent the past few weeks using Apple Pay, the mobile payments app on the iPhone 6 and 6 Plus, as much as possible. I sought out every opportunity to press my thumb to the smartphone’s screen to make a payment at a store.
Apple Pay is revolutionary, but perhaps not for the reason most people think. It isn’t going to replace the credit card. The credit card has never been an annoyance, not to retailers, cardholders or the people behind them in the checkout line. (The greatest annoyance remains people fumbling with checkbooks at the last minute.) The credit card will stick around because it is integrated into Apple Pay. That tight integration is also one reason Apple Pay has a good chance of succeeding.
But the real reason it will succeed is that it will replace the wallet, the actual physical thing crammed with cards, cash, photos and receipts. The smartphone has a history of replacing other devices. It has killed or wounded, among others, point-and-shoot cameras, video cameras, tape recorders, MP3 players, GPS devices, wristwatches, daily organizers, maps, alarm clocks, calculators, flashlights and compasses.
Well, maybe. I thoroughly enjoy the anonymity of cash. My credit union or credit card issuing banks don't need to know what I buy or where I buy it. Will cash disappear in thirty years? I doubt it.
(Score: 4, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 01 2014, @10:58AM
I can't remember how many times I left my phone at home or someone elses house or the battery is dead.
Lucky I don't use my phone to open my house, my car or as wallet.
Maybe I'm old but I still have a point and shoot camera, maps, calculator and flashlight. Exept for telling the time and being my alarm, the rest of the list I really have no use for.
And I like to have cash to physically see what I spent and avoid all the tracking going on by everyone involved.
(Score: 2) by isostatic on Monday December 01 2014, @11:56AM
And I like to have cash to physically see what I spent and avoid all the tracking going on by everyone involved.
Funny, the reason I pay with card is so I can see exactly what I spent, and where I spent it. Rather than take £100 out at the start of the week and find it frittered away, I can see that I spent £25 on coffee that week, improve my buying habits, and save money. Not to mention the coins which are a hassle when flying, but essential for the car park near work which doesn't take card.
95% of my expenses in my home country are cashless.
(Score: 2) by TheRaven on Monday December 01 2014, @12:45PM
I'm the same way, and I think it's fairly common. Now that pubs have started accepting contactless payments on cards, the one place I used to prefer cash has gone. The only places I still use cash are the market and the local greengrocer for transactions under £5 (where cards aren't accepted). If the credit card companies would put a 1% transaction fee on contactless payments under £5, they'd kill the last places where I use cash.
On my last trip to the USA, the only place I used cash was in a coffee shop. The trip prior to that, I managed to spend a week in the US without using any cash.
sudo mod me up
(Score: 2) by isostatic on Monday December 01 2014, @01:12PM
Do you not take taxis? In DC it's rare to find a cab that takes a card, certainly you can't rely on it.
It's been far too long since I went to NY, and longer since I used the subway (last time I was there was hurricane Sandy, so I didn't use the subway for obvious reasons), but can you buy rides with a card?
(Score: 1) by Mr. Slippery on Monday December 01 2014, @02:08PM
Yes. NYC cabs have credit card readers, and subway fare machines take cards.
(Score: 2, Informative) by NotSanguine on Monday December 01 2014, @05:57PM
Yes. NYC cabs have credit card readers,
This is true. Most cab drivers won't say anything, but they all hate accepting credit cards. Not because it's not convenient (they often have issues making change as few people have exact change these days), but because the 5% fee on every charge significantly cuts into their minimal earnings.
Most cab drivers in NY work on a daily (12 hours) "lease" (paid up-front) which ranges in cost from $90-$130 per shift. They must also return with a full gas tank (an additional $30-$45), so these guys need to make somewhere between $120 and $175 per shift before they get a dime for themselves.
A 5% charge for the use of cards can make the difference between making money or taking a loss on any given shift.
That's why I always pay cash in NYC taxis. I'm not chastising anyone for using a card, but I assume that most don't know the economics of NYC taxis.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 2) by TheRaven on Monday December 01 2014, @05:02PM
sudo mod me up
(Score: 3, Insightful) by mcgrew on Monday December 01 2014, @02:38PM
Most bars here only take cash or paper checks. And good luck buying reefer with a credit card, even in Colorado.
There are idiots on TV saying wallets will be obsolete. Yeah? Where will you keep your drivers license and insurance card? And if I drop my wallet, it will never break. Phones aren't nearly so durable.
Phones are also a lot easier to hack than paper money or even credit cards.
mcgrewbooks.com mcgrew.info nooze.org
(Score: 2, Insightful) by kpword on Monday December 01 2014, @10:53PM
Not to mention that wallets are very cheap, require no batteries to work, and have practically no hardware-compatibility issues.
(Score: 2) by Bot on Monday December 01 2014, @06:35PM
Your health insurance or pension fund is also interested in knowing whether you drop 25£ on coffee a week.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 01 2014, @06:40PM
and, possibly, a private detective who hacked into your pc (thanks to the wife who employs him he has physical access to your card movements) may also be interested to know that your drinking habits changed, soon after he instructed the wife to provoke you by casually mentioning that she's soon going to spend more time where your mistress works.
(Score: 2) by hoochiecoochieman on Tuesday December 02 2014, @12:43AM
I'm with you. With cash, I just spend it with no control. That's why I try to use my card in every situation. Unfortunately, most merchants here have a threshold of about five euros before they allow you to use the card. They say it's because of transactions fees, but I know it's bullshit. It's for tax evasion. I wish cash sales would be made illegal. Thousands of companies that have been filing zero profits year after year would all of a sudden become highly profitable with no explanation.
I have to pay more taxes to compensate for all these smart asses.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 02 2014, @12:03AM
Shhhh, this whole story is an Apple advertisement. Get with the program and start fawning.
(Score: 2) by urza9814 on Wednesday December 03 2014, @05:59PM
To the target market, that is never an issue. I mean personally I'm not giving Apple or Google or any other intermediary who doesn't have any real reason to have it. But it's not because I don't want them on my phone. I'm more likely to forget my wallet than my phone. I rarely let the battery get below 20%, usually I won't even let it drop below 70% -- I charge it at home (literally have a charger in every room), I charge it at work, I've got a charger in the car should I ever need it. First thing I do when I get in my car is plug in the phone for music.
I still own a point and shoot camera...but it records videos in VGA quality, while my phone supports 4K. I have a dedicated GPS, but it gets lost constantly, and I never use it because Google Maps on my phone works better, and includes current construction, traffic, and speed trap data. I've got a half dozen calculators, all gathering dust because my phone is always right there. Same with a flashlight -- why go dig through the drawer for the flashlight that *should* be in there somewhere, when I've got one right in my pocket?
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Nuke on Monday December 01 2014, @11:06AM
In fact I don't have a wallet, don't carry photos around, am never likely to buy into Apple, yet I carry cash for smaller buys. Doesn't really take much room. I also hate the idea of bankers taking a cut of everything I spend.
If they ban cash, many people will go back to bartering, perhaps using bits of copper and silver (real stuff I mean) as intermediates. Oh, wait .......
(Score: 1) by Paradise Pete on Monday December 01 2014, @12:47PM
With cash you run some risk. Robbery, counterfeit, short-changed, or simply losing it. There's a "cut" either way. With CCs it's paid each time in small amounts. With cash it's the occasional lump sum. Plus you can comfortably carry more credit than you can cash. And since the CC cut is typically built into the price, by paying cash you are effectively subsiding those paying with credit, and you're paying both cuts.
(Score: 2) by Sir Garlon on Monday December 01 2014, @01:09PM
Well, the final price to the consumer is the same with cash or credit (assuming you pay your credit-card bill on time) so I don't agree with the conclusion I inferred from your comments, that paying with credit is to your advantage. To the consumer, it's the same.
The way I look at it is: do I want that 2% cut to go to Visa or Mastercard, or to the business owner? For local, small businesses, I make an effort to pay cash because those business pay local taxes and their owners spend locally. For nationwide chains, I see little difference between giving 2% of my purchase price to the investors of Macy's or Home Depot viz. the investors of Visa.
So to me, the preference for cash or credit depends mainly on where I'm shopping.
[Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by TheRaven on Monday December 01 2014, @05:06PM
sudo mod me up
(Score: 1) by Paradise Pete on Tuesday December 02 2014, @05:08AM
You're ignoring the part about the risks of cash, so it's not the same. And as someone else pointed out, you also get a kickback from the CC company. I'm not defending this setup, but that's the current situation.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by bob_super on Monday December 01 2014, @04:50PM
> With cash you run some risk. Robbery, counterfeit, short-changed, or simply losing it.
Let's not ignore the massive amount of robberies that are just to get your phone. Now the robber will force you to give your password so he can buy shit with it until you've found a way to deactivate it.
Yes, there are plenty of cases of people being forced to get money at the ATM already, but that involves getting to one, and bank cameras. Phones have GPS, but cops don't chase around phones thieves.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 01 2014, @09:50PM
They will probably add a panic code that *looks* like it authorizes payments until they actually try it and then its only good for $100 or so.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Wierd0n3 on Monday December 01 2014, @08:31PM
yeah, its a bit of a rip for vendors, I've looked into the pricing, and unless your a big store, you get screwed a bit. the average i saw was $25/month fee, $5/Register, 1% of sale and .25/swipe (this is not a choice, they pile it on you) It sucks for small business, because you HAVE to have a CC terminal, otherwise a Customer may decide not to go there after the first visit since it's not convenient.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 01 2014, @03:34PM
Probably will happen around the time of the infamous paperless office. (i.e. never)
(Score: 2, Informative) by Wierd0n3 on Monday December 01 2014, @08:25PM
As a cashier, I can give a slightly different spin on things. At small convenience stores, depending on location and tech buildup, you might still be dealing with dial-up or satellite based systems, which add delays. The store I work at, we have a satellite based credit card processor, which in most cases takes about 7 seconds to approve a card.
most checks written to the store are already filled out by the time they reach the counter, maybe only needing the amount to be filled. (the boss keeps looking at different check services to fill in the check for the customer, and to clear a check for adequate funds, but every one he qualifies for wants us to keep a list of Pre-Screened customers. PITA)
Oddly enough, the cards that introduce the most delays are the BP Visa and BP Rewards cards. the BP Visa has extra questions, and has more cross talk due to the rewards program (plus BP require a signature regardless of amount, where a standard Visa and MC waive the sig under $25), but the Rewards card (separate, but similar program) adds 15 seconds to the end of the transaction, Cash, credit, or check.
so, say you have 4 people with a $20 gas charge at the pump.
#1 pays with a $20 bill. they don't have to wait. throw it at me and leave.
#2 is check. if they fill it out in front of me, takes 10-20 seconds. i glance at it, to make sure the fields are all filled out, stamp the back and they are done. (or they fill it out in the car as it's filling and have a similar turnaround as #1)
#3 Standard Visa. I hit the CC/Debit button, wait 5-7 seconds, they swipe, hit "credit", and "Yes". 3 more seconds and they have their receipt and walk off.
#4 BP Visa. if they swipe before i hit the CC/Debit key, i have to wait for the rewards option. that can (on the BP visa is faster than the Rewards card) take 3-7 seconds, wait after they hit that key, they hit yes after that, and 3 seconds they have to sign, then the have the receipt and can go.
The Rewards card is kinda like a food club card, but has to call in to base to see how much of a reward you have saved. so if a customer has one, add 15 seconds to all the transactions.
the cell phone payments are simply treated as a standard CC, so #3.
I have been to a few places that were set up to do a land line internet auth, and they have at most, 3 second delays (other than having the sig and receipt printer catch up), but we are a older station, and the execs want to wait until the next major upgrade at least. (which may be late next year for all that chip and pin crap)
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Wodan on Monday December 01 2014, @11:07AM
Its all great for in shops (when your phone battery isn't empty) but it's not going to do much for carboot sales, buying some stuff from neighbours etc, so I think cash will stay for a while longer.
(Score: 2) by Nerdfest on Monday December 01 2014, @12:22PM
It's great if you happen to have an Apple device. I don't see them volunteering an app for Android even though it's had NFC for years. We really need an open standard for this.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by mtrycz on Monday December 01 2014, @01:43PM
This is exactly what's wrong. It might be easy to *spend* money but not so much *recieve* it.
That's where, I believe, cryptocurrencies have their spotlight - there's no central authority, everyone is a "pos" - a long as both parties use them.
In capitalist America, ads view YOU!
(Score: 3, Informative) by VLM on Monday December 01 2014, @02:09PM
It might be easy to *spend* money but not so much *recieve* it.
From the point of view of a mega corporation hoping to lock out small competitors, that's exactly whats right about it.
Anecdotally I set up google wallet and square and I can't spend money anywhere other than trendy little coffee shops, yet I don't drink coffee, so I don't use google wallet or square.
The places I actually spend money, like food store, gas station, department stores, pharmacy, doctors offices for huge copays, none of those places use any alternative billing technologies. Google wallet used to have a location based lookup but they took it out, probably the results were too depressing. I no longer have square set up on my phone so no idea.
(Score: 2) by mtrycz on Monday December 01 2014, @08:32PM
From the point of view of a mega corporation hoping to lock out small competitors, that's exactly whats right about it.
Well, the world is made of people, not corporations, so if there is enough adoption, then we, the people, could have an edge there.
In capitalist America, ads view YOU!
(Score: 2) by TheRaven on Monday December 01 2014, @05:09PM
sudo mod me up
(Score: 3, Interesting) by GreatAuntAnesthesia on Monday December 01 2014, @11:20AM
The reason phones (partially) replaced cameras and mp3 players etc isn't just that people don't want to carry all that shit around with them, it's that they never really got into the habit of carrying it in the first place.
For instance, there are times when it's unexpectedly useful for me to have a torch/flashlight on me. On those occasions, I'm very glad that my phone has that function. However, if I didn't have the phone, would I start carrying around a torch just in case? Hell no, who wants to bother with that? Ditto for a camera. I know there exists a minority of people who seem to have bulky DSLRs permanently grafted to their persons, but most of us wouldn't habitually carry a camera around if it didn't happen to be built into the phone.
Money, on the other hand, is something just about everyone carries all the time. Every time I walk out the house I'm checking "keys, wallet, phone" and I'm willing to bet most of you do the same. It's pretty much ingrained. About the only thing you're less likely to go out without is your house and/or car keys, which is something else the phone is unsuccessfully trying to replace. It's a very deep habit that is very difficult to usurp.
(Score: 2) by isostatic on Monday December 01 2014, @12:05PM
Money, on the other hand, is something just about everyone carries all the time. Every time I walk out the house I'm checking "keys, wallet, phone" and I'm willing to bet most of you do the same. It's pretty much ingrained. About the only thing you're less likely to go out without is your house and/or car keys, which is something else the phone is unsuccessfully trying to replace. It's a very deep habit that is very difficult to usurp.
I check phones, wallet, keys, passport. Phones come with RFID nowadays, my wallet has as least 6 RFID cards in it, and my passport has RFID, only my keys don't.
My wallet contains an oyster, two frequent flyer cards, six bank cards, two hotel cards, a car hire card, two press cards, a driving license, various receipts from this week for re-imbursement, 35 Euros, 150 Egyptian pounds, 600 hong kong dolalrs, 34 singapore dollars, 20 israeli shekels and 25 British Pounds. I usually have about 60 US dollars too, need to restock.
The cash is one of the the least used by volume, although I wouldn't like to be trapped somewhere without at least a little exchangable currency. The HKG dollars I just leave in case I need to change money. I really should get some american dollars, got caught out on a last minute trip to egypt a month or so ago, when I had to fly via Qatar, which threw me off and I forgot to get the $25 for a visa, had to pay over the odds to change some left over Yuan.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 01 2014, @01:20PM
Why do you carry so much different cash?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 02 2014, @07:19PM
He also carries two frequently flyer cards, you work it out.
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Monday December 01 2014, @02:42PM
I never check to see if I have them; they're always in my pocket unless I'm using them.
mcgrewbooks.com mcgrew.info nooze.org
(Score: 3, Informative) by Thexalon on Monday December 01 2014, @01:09PM
At least in America:
- There are millions of people without bank accounts, much less debit cards and smartphones needed to use those kinds of methods of payment. Those people are paying in cash, or not at all.
- US dollars in cash are the lifeblood of the illegal drug industry, which is somewhere around 3-4% of the entire US economy (making it larger than many some sectors of the economy, including mining, agriculture, and utilities).
To believe that cash is going away completely, again at least in the US, is to announce that you don't know any poor people well enough to know they usually do almost everything in cash and buy money orders for anything they can't pay in cash.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 1) by curunir_wolf on Monday December 01 2014, @01:21PM
Add to that recent problems with identity theft (Target, Home Depot, etc.). A few weeks ago my card was rejected at the grocery store. Luckily I had another card with me, but some people don't carry multiple cards around, and if some smart phone app was all I had I would have been screwed. It turns out the bank had cancelled it because I had, at some point in the last 6 months, used the card at Home Depot (yea, they should have let me know ahead of time, but that doesn't always happen). I had to pull cash out of the bank to run until my new card showed up in the mail.
I am a crackpot
(Score: 2) by VLM on Monday December 01 2014, @02:01PM
because I had, at some point in the last 6 months, used the card at Home Depot
Could have been Target, you mentioned them, and they got owned.
I've been inside a walgreens when the power goes out, "Attention shoppers can pay with cash or come back later". In an urban area they'd just riot but this was suburb so it was downright civil with people helping each other and sharing flashlights.
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Monday December 01 2014, @02:59PM
When the tornadoes hit here in 2006, nobody had power for a week. Most stores in this part of town stayed closed, even ones that hadn't been badly damaged or damaged at all.
One store did stay open -- they still had an old fashioned carbon copy sign with a pen card reader.
mcgrewbooks.com mcgrew.info nooze.org
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Monday December 01 2014, @02:46PM
Your ideas are sound but your numbers are bogus. There's no way illegal drugs outsell food. And you obviously have no idea how much coal, oil, natural gas, copper, gold, and other minerals are mined here.
mcgrewbooks.com mcgrew.info nooze.org
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Monday December 01 2014, @03:23PM
Oh really?
According to the US census figures for 2007 [census.gov], we mined about $413 billion worth of metals, coal, gas, oil, etc. Assuming some growth in the industry since 2007, a reasonable estimate would be $450 billion worth of mining, which is less than the $500 million worth of illegal drugs that are estimated to be sold in the US annually.
According to the USDA [usda.gov], all farming in the US produced about $175 billion worth of food. If you add in food processing and manufacturing, you get another $300 billion or so, which is still comparable to the size of the illegal drug trade.
That's not to say that mining or agriculture aren't important sectors of the economy, but it does give you some idea of how staggeringly huge the drug trade is.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 2) by rts008 on Monday December 01 2014, @05:57PM
Not to mention the trillions(yes, with an 's') spent on 'the war on drugs'. That in itself should be an indicator on how large the drug trade really is.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 01 2014, @09:55PM
> the $500 billion worth of illegal drugs that are estimated to be sold in the US annually.
That number is a wild ass guess. Rand thinks it is much closer to $100B. [rand.org]
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Tuesday December 02 2014, @01:31AM
The drug trade figures math is faulty. They base the price of a ton of contraband on the drug's street price rather than like corn, where they value the corn at what the farmer gets. If they counted corn like they count illegal drugs, consider that when you buy a box of corn flakes, the farmer gets less than a nickle of your purchase. Count dope like corn is counted and it would be a fraction of how it's now measured. Like corn or steel, dope is cheaper by the ton, but government figures don't reflect that.
mcgrewbooks.com mcgrew.info nooze.org
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 01 2014, @07:04PM
Add to this businesses that don't take credit cards, much less ApplePay/mobile payments. Many tech people only travel to big cities and rarely go out into the rural areas. Once you do travel outside the cities you will run into many problems with mobile payments, and often credit cards. In my travels last summer in rural Oregon, Idaho, Wyoming and Washington, I found a LOT of places with zero cell signal. And I found some places that were cash only, and had no intention of moving away from cash. Gas stations, restaurants, etc. - not drug trade. To say the wallet will go away without first experiencing the full market is short sighted. Cash and physical wallets will continue for all but the earliest adopter hipsterss.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 01 2014, @09:47PM
> There are millions of people without bank accounts,
And prepaid cards are rapidly filling that void. [consumerreports.org] Social Security now mandates electronic payments so if you get SS and don't have a bank account you get a prepaid debit card. In the last couple of years prepaid debit cards have gone from totally fucking over their users to being nearly on a par with a non-free checking account (which is the best type of checking account that a poor person could expect to qualify for). There are still shitty prepaid cards out there, but now there are some decent ones too. Walmart's cobrand with Amex is probably the best of them.
Us pro-cash people have a lot more to worry about from prepaid plastic squeezing us out than we do from flavor-of-the-day smartphone apps.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 01 2014, @01:56PM
There are many businesses where my relationship only needs to last the length of the transaction and not any longer.
They do not need to know my identity, they do not need to market me after my transaction and they do not need to feed the data brokers with information about me.
The biggest issue I have these days is that you do not know what a business will do with your information after you complete a transaction. Will they upload it to their "cloud" analytics program? Do they sell (or give away) their data either knowingly or unknowingly?
Are their computer systems secure? Do they have rogue employees?
Thank you but no thank you. I will consider using a product other than cash if there is a somewhat secure and somewhat anonymous way to do so. Until then it will be cash.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by VLM on Monday December 01 2014, @01:56PM
A lot of this is hipster startups staffed by hipsters living in urban hipster towns making apps/solutions to solve hipster problems and everyone else can F-off because they're not urban hipsters. Then when they try and roll it out to more than 1% of the population they act all mystified why it doesn't work for 99% of the population. Repeat a zillion times over recent decades.
An important reason to have young hipsters work on this is the story repeats. We were promised the same convenience with ATM cards and POS terminals, decades ago. What we got was semi-compatible networks, sometimes, and insane fees. So I guarantee that any NFC "solution" if it doesn't crash and burn will cost like two cups of coffee per use in 2024 and they'll be random expensive fees if you go over / under / around certain apparently random and only semi-publicized limits. You don't seriously think they're going to throw away that revenue stream, do you? Sure, the first hit is free, but they'll be squeezing blood from a stone if they make it. I got one word for you kids, just one word... "Paypal".
You see the urban hipster thing with comments like "now I don't need to carry a wallet". Well that would occasionally cost me about $200 for driving without a license (exact cost depends on which county I was ticketed in). Not everyone is a trust fund baby living in a Manhattan condo. 99% of the population drives all the time.
I've noticed a peculiar dichotomy about electronic payment, at a highly capitalized giant like Home Depot, I can pay for some wood almost as quickly using credit as cash at the self checkout. Cash is slightly quicker to shove a bill in but change can take longer to spit out than to sign the CC terminal. Anyway its at least competitive. However, at the deli by work where I visit practically every day and buy fresh fruit and stuff, electronic payment (either CC or their gift cards) is like 3 times as long as cash because its a manual data entry system and separate terminal and all that. Furthermore the self check could only ignite passionate feelings in a star trek borg character, but the deli has a really cute 20-something cashier with an exhibitionist streak, so all this false PR about electronic payment being faster is not even remotely motivating for me.
(Score: 2) by dry on Monday December 01 2014, @11:03PM
I had to laugh at the summery when it claimed that credit cards have never been an annoyance. They're almost always slower then cash, often the chip is not read on the first try and often the card is rejected causing the customer to hunt for another card. The worst is somewhere like a coffee shop where the bill is a couple of bucks and cash would be so much faster, pay with a couple of coins, get a couple back, don't pay the credit card company a cut.
Helps here in Canada that one's and two's have been replaced with coins and we got rid of the penny. Just sad that the chip&pin hasn't sped up paying.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Aiwendil on Monday December 01 2014, @03:02PM
Really.. the thing with "not carrying a wallet" is irrelevant - it is quite common to see cases that also can hold bills, id-cards and such.
And also, if you don't carry a wallet then just where are you going to keep the id-card, work-id, buisness-cards, login-cards, nfc-card for the transitsystem, library-card...
A wallet tends to hold a lot more than cash..
Oh, also - I live in sweden where one can live practically cashless already, and cheques are rare.. and the iWallet /Apple-pay isn't here yet either..
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Monday December 01 2014, @05:04PM
I do appreciate that cash exists because I can be anonymous when I choose to be. We now know that everything transmitted in electronic form is illegally surveilled by the NSA. They as an organization hold our entire concept of freedom in contempt. As such, any chance I get to pay in cash is a strike against tyranny. Of course the best ultimate guard against anti-democratic forces like the NSA is to manufacture your own goods, but in the meantime cash works reasonably well.
I personally look forward to a time when we can BBQ NSA staffers on a grill and feed them to our pigs, because they mean the destruction of democracy and human freedom, but until then cash works.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by Snow on Monday December 01 2014, @05:26PM
Apple pay will never be huge because it only works with Apple phones. That is about 30% of the North American market, assuming every person with an Apple device uses apple pay.
I think that Bitcoin is going to take over here. It's an open protocol and works on any phone (even dumb phones with SMS). It works across borders without issue too. Now, today, Bitcoin is out of reach for the average consumer, but that is changing all the time. Who konws, maybe bitcoin will be more of a back end tool and people will be using without even knowing (like smtp).
Also, in Canada, we have tap to pay debit cards that work most places now, so having a tap to pay solution isn't really needed here - we already have one that works for everyone.
Apple pay is late to the game.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 01 2014, @08:47PM
I think that Bitcoin is going to take over here.
I disagree. Bitcoin is deflationary in its value. There are a fixed amount of them. It is one of the reasons we moved away from the gold standard. If you do not despise deflation you probably have never borrowed money. Basically if what you were to say were to pass owning 1 coin would be the most amazing investment ever. As the value would only skyrocket once the last coin is mined. My guess is once the last coin is mined interest in them suddenly drops off everyone grumbles for a few years and a new thing pops up. If you talked to the right group at the right time you would have thought trading in beany babies was some cool stuff.
Apple pay is late to the game.
Very true. I have 3 credit cards and they require no batteries.
(Score: 1) by NotSanguine on Monday December 01 2014, @05:48PM
Since Apple Pay was announced, my local pharmacy (and I'm sure other retail outlets), no longer allows contactless processing *at all*. It used to be I could wave my debit card at the terminal and that was that. Now I get a message saying that's not supported *any more* and that I have to swipe the card.
That's not Apple's fault, per se. But I have to say that the way this is going down makes very little sense to me. More fragmentation, less utility, more hassle -- unless you use the retailers that aren't aligned against ApplePay.
I don't like IOS and I don't like walled gardens. The crap [currentc.com] that the retailers [gigaom.com] want us to use instead is arguably much more invasive than ApplePay or GoogleWallet, but I don't want to use my phone to pay for everything.
I'm not suddenly going to become an Apple fanboi or a "my phone must be used for everything including birth control" advocate. It's a phone. Yes, it's an SoC that has significant computing resources, but its form factor and interface limit its usefulness.
I can see a future where mobile devices have standard interfaces to video/keyboard/other input device terminals that make it much more useful as a data storage and computing device. Until then, it's just a phone with a bunch of useful additional features, but strongly limited by its crappy interface and form factor.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 1) by Fauxlosopher on Monday December 01 2014, @06:01PM
The vulnerabilities of cash and physical currency have remained almost entirely unchanged for all of their historical existence. These well-known vulnerabilities can be guarded against to nigh-ridiculous levels, as the owner sees fit.
Vulnerabilities involving non-physical or cashless systems are almost entirely unknown, with the potential for new system-shattering discoveries at any time. The damage may be contractually contained to certain parties, but if the merchant is scheduled to get the shaft as with systems like Apple Pay, expect to see slow or limited adoption.
Most of us already live in a world where cash plays a small role in overall economic activity... but it will be a very long time indeed before a cashless economy is the norm.
(Score: 1) by Refugee from beyond on Monday December 01 2014, @06:41PM
Which means you can lose your ability to spend and recieve any money in a matter of seconds (sorry, pal, it is a hardware failure, enjoy your stay under this lovely bridge). Sounds like a plan.
Instantly better soylentnews: replace background on article and comment titles with #973131.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 01 2014, @08:38PM
I refuse to own a mobile device of any description because of the black-box design paradigm and the fact that when I ask questions about my privacy to the vendors of these products and services I am told there are NO GUARANTEES about my privacy!
That is not a good enough answer for me, so I don't buy into this technology full stop. I like guarantees; if I was to commit a criminal act one day, I would like to guarantee myself the best possible chance of success; these devices kill my alibis and plant uncertainty in my brain.
As far as I'm concerned, life is not fair and everyone at the top is a bastard or criminal of some type or another; I'm not going to let them frame the agenda or compile an accurate dossier of my life; they can bend over and take it up the ass FROM ME and not the other way around!
If the people in charge of society force cash to disappear, I can see many more people committing petty crimes just to survive; this includes me.
(Score: 1) by theronb on Tuesday December 02 2014, @12:17AM
...and appreciated as tips for waitpersons and pizza delivery, payments for personal services like a haircut or the lady who cleans our house. Cash is more personal, avoids the credit card surcharge and allows the recipient to decide what they want to report. I understand the idea of tracking my credit card purchases as a tool to adjust behavior but I do the same things by limiting my weekly walking around money and adjusting through the week based on what's left in my wallet. And finally, I just feel more secure if I can see some cash in my wallet - old fashioned, yes.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 02 2014, @03:05AM
Not going to lie. Haven't carried cash regularly in forever. Money goes into bank, everything is paid with my bank card, even for things less than $5 (since most places around me don't have a minimum transaction cost requirement anymore). Very rarely do I have any cash on me ever.
I can't see cash going away. It'll be diminished in importance, but for deals outside of a business it's a practical necessity.