from the as-you-do-unto-the-least-of-them dept.
El Reg reports
Fort Lauderdale, Florida suffered a distributed denial of service attack [...] Monday afternoon [which] led to massive congestion of the websites of the city and its police force as well as the email system used by local government. The city authorities shut them down as a precautionary measure but the attack stopped by 6:30pm local time.
The previous day, a group claiming to be affiliated with Anonymous threatened action against the Fort Lauderdale authorities in a video uploaded to YouTube. The group said action would be taken because the city had enacted new laws to make life difficult for transients in the city by banning panhandling, sleeping in public places, and feeding the homeless.
The latter law brought a welter of bad publicity after city police twice charged Arnold Abbott, a 90-year-old local resident and war veteran, with breaking the law by organizing a buffet lunch to feed the homeless in a city park--as he had for the last 23 years with his group Love Thy Neighbor.
[...]Tuesday, a local judge suspended the law banning the feeding of homeless people in the city, saying that the city fathers needed to sit down with Mr. Abbott and his group to try and find a compromise.
(Score: 2) by Geezer on Thursday December 04 2014, @12:17PM
We can't have the homeless sleeping all over the place there. That space is reserved for passed-out Spring Breakers in beautiful Fort Quaaluderdale. /sarcasm
(Score: 4, Insightful) by GreatAuntAnesthesia on Thursday December 04 2014, @12:23PM
Seriously, who the fuck would pass such a hateful law? Feeding the homeless is a crime? I'd lay money that most of the people in support of that atrocity label themselves as "Christians" too. Hypocritical turdbags.
Props to the judge for suspending it and urging compromise, although I wish s/he had gone further and overturned it altogether.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Thursday December 04 2014, @12:40PM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 04 2014, @01:25PM
How about we take that to the next level and kill a few birds with one stone: gas the homeless and then put the bodies in the oven @300 for 4-5 hours until juicy. Then feed the homeless to the homeless taking care of the hungry homeless problem.
(Score: 2) by GreatAuntAnesthesia on Thursday December 04 2014, @02:29PM
That proposal sounds modest.
(Score: 1) by Godwin on Thursday December 04 2014, @07:06PM
I endorse this statement.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Friday December 05 2014, @08:40AM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by FakeBeldin on Thursday December 04 2014, @01:32PM
Well, they wouldn't be Christians in the Wikipedian sense of the term. From Wikipedia [wikipedia.org]:
In Christian theology, charity—or love (agäpé) -- is the greatest of the three theological virtues.
Love, in the sense of an unlimited loving kindness towards all others, is held to be the ultimate perfection of the human spirit, because it is said to both glorify and reflect the nature of God. Such love is self-sacrificial. Confusion can arise from the multiple meanings of the English word "love". The love that is "caritas" is distinguished by its origin – being divinely infused into the soul – and by its residing in the will rather than emotions, regardless of what emotions it stirs up. This love is necessary for salvation, and with it no one can be lost.
But yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if there are people who label themselves Christian and are in favour of laws preventing such "agäpé".
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 04 2014, @02:13PM
“For whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them.” —Matthew 25:29
(Score: 2) by Sir Garlon on Thursday December 04 2014, @04:10PM
Congratulations, you have demonstrated the time-honored art of taking a Bible quote completely out of context to pervert its meaning for your own rhetorical purposes.
[Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
(Score: 2) by pnkwarhall on Thursday December 04 2014, @05:27PM
How was the meaning of the verse perverted or taken out of context? I don't think AC was referring to the homeless (as the 'have nots')....
Lift Yr Skinny Fists Like Antennas to Heaven
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Thursday December 04 2014, @07:32PM
That's the closing line of a parable about being entrusted with responsibility and then sitting on your ass and not fulfilling it. At the end, the guy is being punished for being lazy.
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 4, Insightful) by RobotMonster on Thursday December 04 2014, @01:35PM
It's horrific. I'd like to see anybody involved with passing this law denied service at all restaurants, supermarkets, grocers, butchers, etc. After they die from starvation, liquidate their assets and donate the proceeds to those in need.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday December 04 2014, @02:49PM
(Score: 4, Interesting) by microtodd on Thursday December 04 2014, @02:34PM
I ran a homeless shelter and a soup kitchen. Yes, people are this horrific. The town next to ours passed such panhandling laws. We called it the "criminalization of being homeless". Its very, very sad and made me angry a lot.
We did all we could in the legal sense, in terms of going to city council meetings, organizing protests, etc. But it comes down to people in power are all about protecting home values, images, etc. There's also an element of fear. Everyone seems to think that all homeless men are a bunch of pedophiles. When we fed the homeless guys at a church, the childcare workers in the church were fearful of the men. I really don't know why. Most of the men have kids of their own and are actually big teddy bears.
But then again, these are the same "Christians" who, when my wife and I organized an overseas shipment of donations to poor kids in the Middle East (http://www.samaritanspurse.org/what-we-do/operation-christmas-child/ [samaritanspurse.org]), were told "Well that's a waste of money. You're just enabling a bunch of muslims." I had to walk out of the room, I was so angry. It literally drove my wife to tears.
But there are good people and organizations out there. Continue to fight the good fight, my man. (or woman. or whatever you are lol).
(Score: 2, Informative) by SplawnDarts on Thursday December 04 2014, @11:25PM
In my experience there is some truth to the stereotype of the homeless men behaving in sexually inappropriate ways around children. My church serves as an overflow homeless shelter on sub-freezing nights, and on two separate occasions we've had homeless men expose themselves and masturbate at young girls who were in the building for other reasons.
Not the biggest harm in the world, and we still serve as an overflow shelter, but it does happen. It seems to be a general rule that when you deal with people outcast from society you encounter a lot of behavior that's socially unacceptable.
(Score: 1) by monster on Friday December 05 2014, @07:55AM
Two times among many when it didn't happen isn't above the average for normal people in parks, streets or other places. Maybe it's not the 'homeless' part what makes the difference in those inappropriate behaviours.
(Score: 1) by SplawnDarts on Friday December 05 2014, @06:30PM
Not sure what you're getting at. I've gone the entire rest of my life encountering people all over the place (including parks and streets obviously), and never encountered another instance of public masturbation. Then it happens twice (two different people) in this one circumstance. Could it be a coincidence? Sure, I guess so. But it seems staggeringly unlikely to me.
Bear in mind I'm not saying it's a reason to disdain the homeless. I'm just saying it seems to be an issue.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 05 2014, @10:53PM
Do you have scientific data, or just useless anecdotes?
(Score: 1) by monster on Tuesday December 09 2014, @08:18AM
Sorry for the delay in answering, I was away from my computer for several reasons.
What I was trying to say is that you say that the homeless use your church as shelter many times a year and have been using it for many years. That means that two times in all of those is just happenstance, not a trend. And, since there usually are reports of those same events in parks and other public places (although also rare) from non-homeless people that would mean that them being homeless is not a major factor.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 04 2014, @03:01PM
That's a low blow trying to blame Christianity for the misdeeds of politicians. Many churches do a lot to feed the homeless and have days where they can come in and the church provides them with food. This decision by politicians has little to do with his or her religious beliefs and an atheist or agnostic politician would be no less likely to pass such a law.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Sir Garlon on Thursday December 04 2014, @04:03PM
I didn't take OP to be condeming all Christians. Just the loudmouth hypocritical kind who thump the Bible and seem never to have read it (at least not in a reflective manner where the message of the Gospels sunk in). Notice OP's use of scare quotes [wikipedia.org]. Unfortunately the Christian brand is tarnished by such people. Matthew 6:5 [kingjamesbibleonline.org] comes to mind.
[Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
(Score: 2) by GreatAuntAnesthesia on Thursday December 04 2014, @04:11PM
http://www.city-data.com/county/religion/Broward-County-FL.html [city-data.com]
At least 54% of the people in Broward County (where Ft Lauderdale is) describe themselves as some flavour of Christian. I was initially surprised at the high number of Catholics, but on reflection I guess that's the Latin American / Cuban influence.[1]
So, either this law passed despite the objections of more than half the population, or some of those Christians either approved it or couldn't be bothered to protest it.
Now I'm not blaming Christians exclusively for this, and I fully acknowledge that some religious organisations do great work. However I think you need to acknowledge that there are an awful lot of so-called Christians out there whose beliefs and actions do not in any way resemble that guy from the New Testament I keep hearing so much about. [2]
[1] Also surprised at the high Jewish population. Nationally, Jews are only a few percent of the US population. In Broward County they make up 29% - I never thought of Florida as particularly Jewish. Retirees maybe?
[2] http://i.ytimg.com/vi/xU-Lm9GRebA/hqdefault.jpg [ytimg.com]
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Leebert on Thursday December 04 2014, @04:57PM
Jesus himself acknowledged that: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%207:21-23&version=KJV [biblegateway.com]
He actually refers to those people as "ye that work iniquity"; I like that. Not "the things that you did in my name were worthless", but "the things that you did in my name were EVIL."
(Score: 2) by nitehawk214 on Thursday December 04 2014, @04:58PM
Your numbers assume everyone votes or reads the laws.
"Don't you ever miss the days when you used to be nostalgic?" -Loiosh
(Score: 1) by Lagg on Thursday December 04 2014, @05:11PM
I don't think he blamed it. I however will. Every religion including the one I escaped from is a brainwashing cult filled mostly with malicious sociopaths at the top of the hierarchy while the brainwashed types are just ignorant. I've been to some of these church arranged lunchins and I swear the people there just love looking down on the homeless types. Yes, an atheist politician would likely make such a law but they'd be honest about it. Here I bet you that the politician would pull some kind of poverty bible parable straight out of their ass to justify it.
I also love how there are people here with the best intentions trying to make some kind of meaning out of the bible. I admire you guys for that but having read the thing twice I can safely say it's a collection of rambling bullshit purpose-made for quote mining. Which is by design of the people who wrote the thing and started the religion. After all, they needed a cane with which to tend their flock (of sheep) to reuse a common biblical expression.
Really, I think we need more blame of Christianity and religions as a whole for issues like this. A pretty big chunk of these types ignore separation of church and state as well as think that 'murika was founded on Christianity. It's a fairly safe assumption to make really, that they'd use their religion to justify starving people. Not like the other cults haven't done that before anyway.
http://lagg.me [lagg.me] 🗿
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Thursday December 04 2014, @07:39PM
Every religion including the one I escaped from is a brainwashing cult filled mostly with malicious sociopaths
You'll have to forgive me if I don't take you very seriously if, for example, you were a member of Heaven's Gate or something.
Oh, by "cult" you mean "any organized religion." So which one were you in?
Aside from the fervor, most of your points sound fairly accurate, unfortunately. Power corrupts, sheeple, etc.
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 2) by Lagg on Thursday December 04 2014, @10:18PM
Given that I'm in the US and the cancer of Christianity is ever attached to it take a wild guess. I don't get why people think that one religion isn't a cult and the other one is. If you don't believe me look at some of the videos of their brainwashing process where they mass people, oftentimes kids, together in the same spot. Play repetitive music and instill whatever their given dogma is into them until they stick to it blindly and then proceed to instill it into other people. It's exactly like cancer cells and it's present in every religion in one way or the other.
http://lagg.me [lagg.me] 🗿
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Thursday December 04 2014, @10:49PM
Yeah, because assuming somebody is a Christian in the U.S. totally isn't a good way to get yourself yelled at 50% of the time.
The difference between a cult and a religion is admittedly fuzzy. But anybody who tells me religion is uniformly evil 100% of the time is going to get a scornful look from me. It can be a good thing.
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 04 2014, @09:19PM
a cane with which to tend their flock (of sheep)
That's called a crosier.
"Staff" would be a closer description than "cane" (it's usually taller than the guy).
I always thought "bishop's crook" was most apt; the 2 words just seem to go together.
-- gewg_ (whose parents were Catholic)
(Score: 2) by Lagg on Thursday December 04 2014, @10:19PM
Thanks, forgot the name of it. I prefer your name for it though. Apt indeed.
http://lagg.me [lagg.me] 🗿
(Score: 1) by TheB on Thursday December 04 2014, @04:39PM
Sadly it's common. In the Seattle area many programs to feed the homeless have been shut down.
Operation Sack Lunch was temporarily shut down before they found out it would be a PR disaster.
http://www.king5.com/story/news/local/seattle/2014/08/02/13052094/ [king5.com]
"But it was also about damage control. Smith had initially ordered the program to be shut down because she found its outdoor location 'undignified' and 'inhumane.'"
http://www.realchangenews.org/index.php/site/archives/6263/ [realchangenews.org]
The Bread of Life Mission was shut down last year after 70+ years of service.
http://mynorthwest.com/11/2178586/Mission-told-not-to-feed-the-homeless-in-Seattle-city-parks [mynorthwest.com]
In the early 2000's several restaurants and bakeries used to give their leftover food to the homeless at the end of the day. I witnessed a cop telling a restaurant owner he couldn't give his food away anymore. The cop told him that there was food at the mission less than 5 blocks away. The restaurant owner complained that many of the people he feed couldn't go to the mission for mental health reasons. The cop told him 'they will go to the mission or starve'.
Seattle's current tactic: http://www.king5.com/story/news/2014/08/03/13214720/ [king5.com]
"Recently, however, city workers told Bread of Life volunteers they had to have a permit to hand out free food. When they went to apply for one, the city said permits were not being issued. "
Recently there has been a pust to ban panhandling in Seattle.
[URL:http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Ban-on-begging-proposed-for-downtown-Seattle-277012341.html]
A similar bill passed(5-4) in 2010 but was vetoed by the mayor. The vote was expected to be pass with too many votes to veto before the ACLU stepped in.
[URL:http://www.komonews.com/news/local/91940164.html]
It's not just happening in one city. It's happening nation wide.
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-06-10/cities-crack-down-on-homeless/55479912/1 [usatoday.com]
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Thursday December 04 2014, @06:06PM
Christians show themselves to be Christian by their Actions. Here is a relevant passage from the Bible about the topic at hand: Matthew 25:31-46
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 04 2014, @01:03PM
If you want to be PC then be consistent and drop the homeless moniker. You're going to hurt someone's feelings (most likely yours, not theirs) if you call them homeless.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 04 2014, @03:17PM
What do you suggest then, calling them vagrants?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by ikanreed on Thursday December 04 2014, @03:28PM
Oh, look, a person who believes in letting people starve to death on the streets is worried about how unfair "PC language" is to him.
(Score: 2) by GreatAuntAnesthesia on Thursday December 04 2014, @04:20PM
Not sure that GP expressed a belief in letting people starve to death, unless you know something about this particular AC that I don't.
I don't see how "homeless" is un-PC though. It's a pretty neutral descriptive term - or at least as neutral as it can be, given that it describes something that is stigmatised.
"Transient" would imply a more nomadic kind of homelessness in my mind.
(Score: 2) by ikanreed on Thursday December 04 2014, @05:20PM
The mere existence of debates about what's the most fair way to describe people tends to set off people who hate the "PC police"
(Score: 2) by Immerman on Thursday December 04 2014, @04:54PM
>...a group claiming to be affiliated with Anonymous...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that pretty much the *definition* of being affiliated with Anonymous?
(Score: 2) by tibman on Thursday December 04 2014, @05:34PM
Some people still think Anonymous is some kind of actual organization with a hierachy.
SN won't survive on lurkers alone. Write comments.
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Thursday December 04 2014, @07:42PM
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ExactlyWhatItSaysOnTheTin [tvtropes.org]
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 1) by NotSanguine on Thursday December 04 2014, @05:40PM
I think Anatole France said it best...
We are a "nation of laws" after all.
I guess compassion and simple human respect are becoming rarer and rarer. That makes me sad.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 06 2014, @08:06AM
...Because you have no money to 'kick upstairs' to justify receiving even food, clothing, or shelter to SURVIVE in return!
The world at large sees such individuals as 'worthless' who need to die ASAP '...and decrease the surplus population.' [youtube.com]
Sadly, the world at large is a huge pyramid held together by money. If you have no money, the world summarily deems you have NO RIGHT TO ANYTHING it has to offer! By one account, [biblegateway.com] life on Planet Earth didn't start out this way. Things went downhill from there with a distant hope [biblehub.com] of a better, brighter future. Thankfully, according to that same account, it has been fulfilled. [biblehub.com]
A number of years ago, mental institutions where I live at were 'depopulated' majorly or outright closed down to save money --resulting in a flood of people incapable of caring for themselves released into the public at large. Coupled with anti-vagrancy measures enacted by businesses everywhere ('NO LOITERING', 'NO PANHANDLING', 'NO PUBLIC BATHROOM') and enforced by local government ('PARK CLOSES AT DUSK AND OPENS AT DAWN--TRESPASSERS WILL BE ARRESTED') these individuals would be either arrested and incarcerated (for relieving themselves outside a bathroom or other arrestable behavior) or simply left outside to die of exposure were it not for abandoned buildings, publicly funded spaces with free admission like public libraries, and individuals and organizations who help these individuals with food, clothing, and shelter, who have NO WAY of repaying such kindness. Since there is no monetary profit in helping people with no money to their name, they are ultimately doing it for a reason higher than mere profit motive in any way shape or form.
I've seen the poor ignored, ridiculed, and yelled at.
I've read/seen stories of the poor attacked and murdered.
Due to the RELENTLESS use of technology to cut costs, jobs, and with it the ability for most people to sustain themselves, the final 'endgame' may look like this [marshallbrain.com] or this. [wikipedia.org]
I read somewhere that somebody said the first sign of a civilization's imminent collapse is in how that civilization treats the poor and most vulnerable citizens within it.
The Occupy movement [wikipedia.org] may be a sign of this imminent collapse....