from the all-we-need-to-do-is-keep-talking dept.
A story from Phys.org claims that a high-level engagement in the comments of a thread is the best way to defeat internet trolls.
Scrolling through the comments section on a news site is like seeing a verbal war before your eyes. Internet trolls flourish in an anonymous world, so much so that sites like Reuters and Popular Science have done away with the comment sections altogether. But there has to be a better way to let the audience engage in a civil manner. A recent study published in the Journal of Computer-Mediated Communication by researchers at the University of Texas, Purdue University, and University of Wyoming, found that having a journalist engage with commenters can affect the deliberative tone of the comments, effectively reducing trolling.
Natalie Stroud (University of Texas), Joshua Scacco (Purdue University), Ashley Muddiman (University of Wyoming), and Alexander Curry (University of Texas) published their findings in the Journal of Computer-Mediated Communication. The researchers partnered with a local television news station and conducted an experiment using its Facebook community of 40,000 followers.
Between December 2012 and April 2013 a total of 70 political posts were included in the study on a randomized schedule. Each post was assigned to one of three random conditions: a well-known reporter would engage in the comments section; the station's web team (under its insignia) would engage; or there would be no engagement at all from the station. The researchers then conducted a content analysis of all 70 posts and the 2,403 comments left on these posts. They examined whether the comments were civil, relevant, contained genuine questions, and provided evidence. The researchers found that in comment sections where the recognized journalist engaged with the audience, it had a statistically significant effect on the tone of the comments. Incivility decreased by 17% and people were 15% more likely to use evidence in their comments on the subject matter.
Are we, the majority of the SN community, the solution to the trolls who make up the minority here?
(Score: 4, Insightful) by nitehawk214 on Monday December 08 2014, @09:29PM
What is all of this, "kill off anonymity to stop trolling" stuff that is appearing all over the internet lately?
"Don't you ever miss the days when you used to be nostalgic?" -Loiosh
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 08 2014, @09:52PM
I think it's about ...ah no! Stop please! Oh god, oh god, oh god. Nooooooo! Aaaaaaaakpft!
(Score: 2) by nitehawk214 on Monday December 08 2014, @10:25PM
What, are you dictating?
"Don't you ever miss the days when you used to be nostalgic?" -Loiosh
(Score: 3, Funny) by DECbot on Monday December 08 2014, @10:52PM
He who is valiant and pure of spirit may find the holy grail in the Castle of Aaauuuggghhh..."
cats~$ sudo chown -R us /home/base
(Score: 2) by LoRdTAW on Monday December 08 2014, @11:10PM
What?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 09 2014, @12:17AM
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 08 2014, @11:29PM
Elementary Web Physics: High level trolling in comment sections can engage everybody
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 09 2014, @01:14AM
The fact that Ethanol-Fueled exists shows that a ban on anonymity certainly won't stop the most prolific trolls in the slightest.
So sayeth a conscientious objector of unnecessary accounts.
(Score: 1) by Synonymous Homonym on Tuesday December 09 2014, @01:41PM
Holkin's Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory has been disproven by Blizzard. It's not anonymity that turns NORPs into fuckwads.
The fact of the matter is that namefags are the majority of obnoxious flamebaiters.
In light of this, the findings of TFA are not in the least surprising.
You need skilled trolls to foster intelligent discourse among the new.
(Score: 2) by cmn32480 on Monday December 08 2014, @09:31PM
We are the solution. And DON'T FEED THE TROLLS! Especially after midnight.
Drown the trolls in a sea of good discussion. Don't let them hijack the thread.
Good comments from people who know something or are asking intelligent questions should help to drown out the noise of the trolls. But I will say that we have been seeing a lot more noise lately. Maybe it is because I read at -1. Maybe we are getting more popular. But the SNR here is still VERY good.
The question is at what point does the noise become a distraction?
"It's a dog eat dog world, and I'm wearing Milkbone underwear" - Norm Peterson
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Ethanol-fueled on Monday December 08 2014, @09:50PM
One tactic that was used on the other site was to reply to a troll with a post that was relevant to the discussion, essentially hijacking a hijack attempt back into the discussion. For it to work well it requires people to reply ontopic to the "hijacking of the hijack" comment.
Maybe more diversity in submission topics would help. A lot of people here likely have domain knowledge without a proper discussion about it to show everybody how smart they are. And I can respect a person who trolls rather than writes a meaningless circle-jerk comment pretending to know about systemd. Or actually, are all systemd discussions troll discussions? The trolls here troll out of boredom and/or whimsy, so maybe engaging them isn't the best idea. Replying directly to trolls, after all, it still feeding them.
We also must be careful not to jump the gun and accuse people of trolling while they are just showing some kind of quirk or style. We don't want "troll" to be the new "terrorist" or "pedophile" or "racist" here, where it is thrown out willy-nilly to silence discussion or otherwise discredit somebody. People also have their pet-issues and become passionate during certain arguments -- there is a lot of political content here, after all, whether your pet-issue is systemd or illegal immigration. Some people are sarcastic. Some people are profane, or curt, but they are not automatically "trolls" just because you think they're a meanie-head.
This, [soylentnews.org] for example, was not meant to be a troll, even though you might think so. I have already counted at least 3 occurrences of people falsely accusing AC trolls of being me.
(Score: 2) by frojack on Monday December 08 2014, @10:08PM
One can't say that has worked all that well on that OTHER site if you ask me.
The place is crawling with troll posts, many, but not all of them are ACs.
Also ACs are up, WAY up on that green site, usually abusive ACs at that.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 2) by nitehawk214 on Monday December 08 2014, @10:27PM
The troll is used as "I disagree." Both here and on the green site. It always has.
"Don't you ever miss the days when you used to be nostalgic?" -Loiosh
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Tuesday December 09 2014, @07:34AM
I disagree with this comment, you troll!
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Tuesday December 09 2014, @08:28AM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 08 2014, @11:36PM
Didn't know you were from the Imperial Valley. That may explain some things.
Brawley and Yuma were shitholes. Just remembering those places makes me want to give a shotgun a blowjob.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 09 2014, @12:21AM
He very clearly stated "We also must be careful not to jump the gun..".
(Score: 1) by Ethanol-fueled on Tuesday December 09 2014, @12:32AM
Only the best made it through that hell.
The rest got pregnant at 13 or became addicted to meth.
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Tuesday December 09 2014, @07:16AM
We don't want "troll" to be the new "terrorist" or "pedophile" or "racist" here, where it is thrown out willy-nilly
Why settle for one, when all three apply? And Eth, I have just noticed a new campaign to smear you, ACs saying things exactly like you might say, and then they say they are you! How perverted is that? Well, it already is perverted, since they sound like you. What was your complaint again?
(Score: 3, Interesting) by VLM on Monday December 08 2014, @09:41PM
high-level engagement in the comments of a thread
This post would have been a lot funnier in its own context, if you guys hadn't come along and engaged in the comments of the thread, as per the article.
Well, now that you guys have ruined it, may as well talk about it:
having a journalist engage with commenters
Thats just shocking. It would be like having a news reader do her live on site TV report while topless. Obviously the trolls would be so shocked, that even the paid political astroturfers would be speechless, at least for awhile. Its like when 4chan raids somewhere, they're just too stunned to say anything. So if I haven't made it clear, most "journalism" is fire and forget, so the comments section kinda acts up, when the cats away (and it always is) the mice will play.
Part of the problem is local news, both newspaper and radio and TV, just resend the Reuters feed and thats it. So obviously there will be no journalist interaction. There's a U-shaped cavity where bloggers with 1e3 fans can interact, then there's a dead zone of Reuters and video news releases, then theres 3e6 fans and up where college kids paid to do nothing but social media front-end operations all day can interact. But there's this giant dead zone from a thousand up to a couple million where interaction is impossible beyond the most trivial.
P.S.
For F's sake: "Your comment violated the "postersubj" compression filter. Try less whitespace and/or less repetition in the subject line. " OK shhh then not shhhhhhhh.
(Score: 2) by cmn32480 on Monday December 08 2014, @09:44PM
You would have preferred a bunch of us coming on saying "Frosty Piss?"
Bleh...
"It's a dog eat dog world, and I'm wearing Milkbone underwear" - Norm Peterson
(Score: 3, Informative) by VLM on Monday December 08 2014, @09:52PM
Putting the numbers in, there's 70 posts, resulting in about 30 comments per post. From 40000 "likes".
I don't think a like means much because we get over 30 comments in posts off a tenth the number of "participants". So I wouldn't read much into "likes". Or one SN reader is like 10 FB readers. Or something like that.
Secondly they "defeat the trolls" because in a pitiful 30 posts, the difference between engagement and disengagement is a whopping 3 or so trollposts. In EE land we call that 1/f flicker noise when you're measuring individual electrons and stuff. It doesn't mean anything.
(Score: 1) by Darren on Monday December 08 2014, @09:47PM
Why would we be a solution of any sort? I'm not sure this is even a problem the way it's being framed because it's just people being people. They attempted to warp and censor the public into appearing as a cliche on their posting boards, that isn't actually a problem like a flat tire or a broken gear belt. They should exert more energy to engage people the way entertainers do then trying to appeal and lead a crowd if they wish to produce a stock reaction. Being unable to control other people shouldn't be described as a problem.
Web Designer - darrencaldwellwebdesign.ca
(Score: 2) by frojack on Monday December 08 2014, @10:16PM
Being unable to control other people shouldn't be described as a problem.
It wasn't describes as a problem so much as it was described as counter productive to the purpose of the site.
Applied to everyday life, the inability to control other people pretty much speaks to the death of civilization, and applied to blogs/web sites can quickly signal the demise there of. Its the very reason why we can't have nice things, when any vandal that walks by is given full reign.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 08 2014, @11:56PM
Controlling other people shouldn't really be the goal; limiting your perception to the things that are productive should be the goal.
(Score: 1) by Ethanol-fueled on Tuesday December 09 2014, @02:40AM
People need diversions and distractions occasionally, and some may be too lazy to leave this site to seek them.
I'd like to give the admins the benefit of the doubt and hope they see fostering more productive discussions (by way of the changes to the moderation, as one example) as a puzzle to be solved rather than control for control's own sake.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday December 09 2014, @12:29AM
Say... what? Would you be so kind to elaborate?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by frojack on Tuesday December 09 2014, @09:06AM
Civilization is about control of individuals for a common good.
If you can everyone to agree, my might be able to get by with SELF Control. If even ONE person disagrees, and decides to kill you for your woman or your money or your livestock, then other means of control WILL be imposed. Those are the rules of the house (of mankind). You don't need to like the rules. But you can't deviate too far from them.
Mankind is not so civilized that we can rely on only Self control. We therefore impose group control. I'm surprised you need this explained to you. Its been this way for 30,000 years or more.
Insisting that any collection of people can't have any means of control of others is basically an unnatural state for mankind. All of mankind expects to have some control imposed on them from time to time. We fancy ourselves a civilization ruled by laws.
Those that believe they are above the law will need to have a lot of weapons and friends and money to continue to act with impunity.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 2) by JeanCroix on Tuesday December 09 2014, @02:51PM
And one could say that once they amass enough of them, they become the law. Ave Imperator.
(Score: 2) by nitehawk214 on Monday December 08 2014, @10:29PM
I assumed the post meant "we" as in "The SoylentNews moderation system."
To paraphrase... it is the worst moderation system, except all the others that have been tried.
"Don't you ever miss the days when you used to be nostalgic?" -Loiosh
(Score: 1) by zugedneb on Monday December 08 2014, @10:35PM
internet is the place for nerds debating technology, scientists talk science, and 4chan...
a lot of people seems to think internet is a safe place full of friends where they can they brag about the qualities of their personality and just sit and be mature and sensible together...
they just want to pull the internet down to the level of "pair"date where a lot of couples sit and just talk safe bullshit...
and with their mature sensible manner they enrage everyone who has seen the darker side of life...
evolution has made other types of people as well, apart from the mature sensible civilian who knows how to debate... some of us have even killed and set mature sensible civilian on fire... the fucker screamed as a pig :DDD
me, of the warrior tribe, who was made by evolutions to have the concept of beating the crap out of people, and kill without remorse hardwired into my brain, thinks internet is no place for fucking civilian faggots...
me strong hard guy, but no want to fuck children... I want to murder mature civilian, and beat the fuck out of sensible woman...
old saying: "a troll is a window into the soul of humanity" + also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ajax
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 08 2014, @11:26PM
^ this guy gets it
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday December 09 2014, @12:37AM
You, the strong hard guy, have a pretty strong skull.
Probable this is why the simple realisation of: maybe the internet is not the best way to actually "murder mature civilian etc" didn't quite get through your skull.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by Yog-Yogguth on Tuesday December 09 2014, @03:00AM
Parent was pretty humorous but gets most things right: keep the “trolls” and kick out the “disneys” for improvement. Enrage is the right word.
Now that I'm almost worried about being branded sensible and mature (because it's me and possibly the parent who is, not the others) I'll add my bits.
If everyone goes around censoring their own disagreements and peeves then there's not much room for any exchange of views and all the notions built on top of that collapse. We need “wrong” opinions, even those that are wrong.
But that's supposedly too hard to understand for the people employed by such companies, so it becomes one of the main reasons why one finds so many angry voices in comments in the first place :|
Angry people don't give a shit about style and it is absurd to require it from them. Same goes for passion. Mincing words sucks, a little might be wise but quickly turns into a noose.
The TFA is wrong; the “journalists” they just make it worse, I've never seen any of them actually engage in a meaningful way (repeating their own drivel incessantly does not constitute conversation never mind discussion or debate). In fact all the journalists I've ever seen replying to the comments on their own articles have been so outrageously and horribly dumb that it is obvious people give up on them, thus the “trolls” do indeed disappear (perhaps just momentarily) but not for the reasons TFA thinks.
Then even that doesn't work and they just delete the entire discussion no matter how many thousands of people are involved. Sevral times in a row if necessary. Or they remove the entire discussion system. This happened after a local massacre and continued to happen regularly before I quit wasting my time on their shit, now I only read one source and only for local news (I don't even see anything else unless I look for it) and for everything else I go elsewhere in the world to places that actually has content. After trying out English, American, Japanese, Chinese, Qatari, German, and French sources I use the Russian RT as a mainstay for “ordinary” use and look up details and conflicting/differing views on an ad hoc basis depending on newsworthiness. Would have tried Spanish sources if I knew Spanish, and more French and German ones.
RT has a few kooks (who are sometimes right too) and more than a few in the comments which I don't read all that often, but I like knowing they're there, it's a bill of health :) Any news site not filled to the brim with contentious issues and wild debate and acrimony doesn't pass go. A site which deletes it (most do) is an instant failure.
Bite harder Ouroboros, bite! tails.boum.org/ linux USB CD secure desktop IRC *crypt tor (not endorsements (XKeyScore))
(Score: 1) by zugedneb on Tuesday December 09 2014, @04:55PM
Parent was pretty humorous but gets most things right: keep the “trolls” and kick out the “disneys” for improvement. Enrage is the right word.
true, true...
abut alas, it seems that all other then the "disneys" are just support troops deployed by evolution, _for_ the disneys...
(or if not quite support troop, then poor bugger with mental issues between 2 chairs, drifting slowly towards jail, for one or other reason ...
by and large, life is about the disneys... no matter how much we rage...
old saying: "a troll is a window into the soul of humanity" + also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ajax
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 08 2014, @10:43PM
Get rid of "Post Anonymously" and get rid of the "negative" vote. That way someone can post their opinion without being voted out of existence.
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Tuesday December 09 2014, @01:44AM
get rid of the "negative" vote. That way someone can post their opinion without being voted out of existence.
But, you know, there is no human right to not be voted out of existence, with regard to your opinion on a news aggregation website. Some opinions deserve to be hidden, concealed, erased, disappeared, deep-sixed, sent to sleep with the fishes, that sort of thing. Why? They are stupid opinions that only someone totally oblivious as to the nature of their opinions would not be too embarrassed to express where another human being could accidentally read them.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by zugedneb on Monday December 08 2014, @10:47PM
"Scrolling through the comments section on a news site is like seeing a verbal war before your eyes."
And what have been on the news lately?
-jews raping palestinians
-war
-corruption
-more war
-some more corruption...
-some news about the history of suffering jews
(in sweden there is 2-3 articles about the "holocaust" every week in the daily newspaper, I kid you not)
so who do you want to be civil to whom?
old saying: "a troll is a window into the soul of humanity" + also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ajax
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 09 2014, @12:03AM
I figure since this is a story about trolls and the parent mentioned Jews I thought I would throw in a few morsels and godwin it at the same time.
some news about the history of suffering jews
Oh! But they suffered soooooo much ya know. They still continue to suffer so much that they are teachers, doctors, lawyers, actors, comedians, directors, wealthy businessmen, real estate moguls (really, why do you see jews walking all around Brooklyn all day, you think they work like the rest of the peons? Ha!) etc.
You would also think the Jews were the only ones executed during WWII (or the history of the world) with how they love to shove it in everyones face. meanwhile the Nazis persecuted, enslaved and executed millions of people who were not Jews but other "untermenschen" or subhumans such as slavs including Polish, Ukrainian, Belorussians. Also throw in gypsies, disabled/retarded, homosexuals and other non-white peoples. And seriously, are the Jews are the only persecuted peoples of the world? No other groups of people have been persecuted, exterminated or attempted extermination? Go look up African genocide to put that in perspective. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_(disambiguation) [wikipedia.org] Thats right a disambiguation for the word holocaust, they hijacked the word itself. 6 Million, their rally cry. Meanwhile another 5 million non Jews died right along side them and they barely acknowledge that fact. And they wonder why they have pissed off people throughout history. How many museums, monuments memorials and other remembrances are there for the 5 million non jews in WW2, Holodomor, Armenian Genocide, and others? Go google the word holocaust and see how many Jewish sites mention that a near equal number of non jews were murdered right along side them. Some mention the Gypsies or the disables, some don't say a damn thing.
Its all me! me! me! me! I'm a jew woe is me! Meanwhile they are a very successful people who got there by sticking to themselves and excluding everyone else. You think they were persecuted throughout history simply because they were Jews? They are a very exclusive group who shun other people. What did they expect a fucking welcoming party wherever they went? Admittedly that exclusive behaviour has allowed them to survive for thousands of years. They rarely let other people come join the party which would taint their lineage.
Then I have to listen to my Jewish friends constantly defend Israel as if it deserves to exist after 1500 years of Muslim/Arabic occupation. And they are no strangers to committing acts of terrorism to get their way: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_political_violence [wikipedia.org] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_religious_terrorism [wikipedia.org] Shit if you think its okay to displace millions of people from their homes, take their land and claim it's rightfully yours because God somehow handed you a deed thousands of years ago: pot, meet kettle. They have the audacity to think they have a deed to land after 1500 years.
The Jews need to shut the fuck up, stop acting like prima donnas and stop acting like they are the chosen people. Oops! I forgot. They are. Carry on then....
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 09 2014, @02:46AM
I think "trolls" existed before the internet went mainstream ... dialup but before aol.
this old fart was a teenager back then and it took a while to understand "what troll means".
a bit or lurking, insider knowledge (ezpecially on help channels on irc) and the sudden insight a-la godel aand voila, you would compile the meaning of troll.
new age trolls are just people that the channel doesnt like ...