Andy Baio writes a touching tale - Playing with my Son - or What happens when a 21st-century kid plays through video game history in chronological order?
If you have a kid, why not run experiments on them? It’s like running experiments on a little clone of yourself! And almost always probably legal.
It’s disappointing how many people have children and miss this golden opportunity, usually waiting until they’re in their teens to start playing mindgames with them.
Start with the arcade classics and Atari 2600, from Asteroids to Zaxxon. After a year, move on to the 8-bit era with the NES and Sega classics. The next year, the SNES, Game Boy, and classic PC adventure games. Then the PlayStation and N64, Xbox and GBA, and so on until we’re caught up with the modern era of gaming.
Would that child better appreciate modern independent games that don’t have the budgets of AAA monstrosities like Destiny and Call of Duty? Would they appreciate the retro aesthetic, or just think it looks crappy?
Or would they just grow up thinking that video game technology moved at a breakneck speed when they were kids, and slammed to a halt as soon as they hit adolescence?
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 12 2014, @02:37PM
No, actually, they're not
and treating them that way is a great way to
be murdered by them in your sleep.
(Score: 2) by Immerman on Friday December 12 2014, @05:34PM
What, you think an actual little clone of yourself would be less murderous? He might be a bit more likely to enjoy the same sorts of things as you, but then Nurture seems to play roughly as strong a role as Nature in personality - how much would you have enjoyed those games if Dad had sat you down for mandatory gaming every night?
(Score: 2) by Jeremiah Cornelius on Friday December 12 2014, @09:53PM
I'd like to teach MY son that games are a bit childish... Playing any kind of game - now and again - is an appropriate way to enjoy oneself and the company of others. However, making the playing of games a principle avocation and pastime is infantile. I'd rather show him a model for an adult life that is richer than that.
You're betting on the pantomime horse...
(Score: 2) by Immerman on Friday December 12 2014, @11:16PM
While I agree that video games are highly limiting, virtually all enjoyable social (and non-social) activities could reasonably be called "games". Unless you're one of those sticklers who insists that games have formal rules and victory conditions.
(Score: 2) by Jeremiah Cornelius on Friday December 12 2014, @11:53PM
I'm somewhere between. I actually dislike games and contests. But I'm always a bit "playful".
You're betting on the pantomime horse...
(Score: 2) by francois.barbier on Friday December 12 2014, @06:04PM
'Cause, you know, "there can be only one"...
(Score: 1) by jpkunst on Friday December 12 2014, @06:06PM
A classical mistake that fathers make is to consider their first son a clone of themselves.
Note to fathers: he is not your clone, he is his own person.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 12 2014, @07:14PM
I was a first son and instead of bringing me up like he was, my father brought me up like he wished he had been. For just a few examples, I was driving stick shift (off the road) at age five, he took me into his work on weekends (aircraft R&D, fun to play in surplus WWII aircraft) and supported me when I needed tools and supplies to build things for myself. At the time I knew I was getting different treatment than my schoolmates, but only much later did I really appreciate what he did for me.
(Score: 1) by Ethanol-fueled on Friday December 12 2014, @02:45PM
We liked those games because they were all we had, and were cutting-edge at the time.
Try playing them now, and you quickly lose a lot of their good feelings when you keep dying at that one hard spot and have to start at the beginning of the level, or even the game when your 3 continues run out. Or games like Amagon or Yo! Noid! That depend on rote memorization of enemy positions to beat every level (though cheats and save-states with emulation or game genies make this more bearable).
I think the success of this would either to introduce them to a kid when they are old enough to appreciate it in an ironic hipster fashion, or before they play the newer faster stuff.
I'll always have a soft-spot for the NES. However, the only thing NES-related I watch now is in Bionic commando when Hitler^W master-D calls you a damn fool [sydlexia.com] and then you fire a rocket through the window of his chopper and explode his head. [destructoid.com]
The best part in that case is that the censors eliminated all the swaztikas and references to Nazi Germany but left in the words "Damn" and the head exploding.
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Friday December 12 2014, @03:05PM
Probably because the use of swastikas and Nazi symbolism could get the game banned in Germany. They're very touchy about that sort of thing - Wolfenstein has always run into that problem as well. You have to get government approval before doing anything remotely Nazi, which is why I was really surprised when I saw that they were doing a production of The Producers in Berlin.
Yes, it's a violation of free speech, but it's also part of Germany's effort to ensure that they never repeat what they once did.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 12 2014, @03:33PM
Yeah, because censorship promotes an honest discussion and there are no neo-Nazis in Germany...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 12 2014, @04:35PM
In a nutshell, in Germany you are not allowed to use symbols/songs/part of uniforms etc that are closely connected to forbidden parties that still have contemporal context (The Neo-Nazis contemporal context is in their name). Exceptions are usage in art, research or education[1]. the german wiki [wikipedia.org] shows swastikas for educational purposes for example. While the german communist party KPD is forbidden, the usage of hammer and sickle is not forbidden, because its main context as a symbol is the USSR.
[1]The distinction is not very clear, a few years ago there was a famous case when a student carried a crossed-out swastika, a widespread symbol for antifascists, was fined for €200. In a later trial he was found not guilty. But other courts judged differently.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 12 2014, @09:02PM
i would have thought being open and honest about ww2 would help current generations of germans understand it better which would put them in better positions to prevent a repeat. otherwise i imagine it would actually promote distrust and misunderstanding of jews because their mistreatment is somehow protected by the establishment.
same as islam in america and other western countries; if its not openly discussed and understood, kids will assume what the tv tells them must be true (that muslims are towlheads that want to kill them with airplanes) when in fact islam is a peaceful religion shared by more people in the world than any other religion. every religion has its extremists. the difference is some excuses to go bombing for ideology are given catchy names like 'war on terror'. propaganda is more alive and well than it ever was when the nazis were in power.
if $deity really exists, i wouldn't be at all surprised if it bailed on humanity long ago. nor would i blame it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 21 2014, @11:12AM
Islam isn't peaceful, it was spread by conquering armies, huge numbers of its adherents think apostasy should be punished by death and stoning is an appropriate punishment for adultery, those aren't things you'll see in a truly peaceful religion. Even the word "islam" means submission.
There are many peaceful people who are muslims and perhaps this is where the confusion of islam being peaceful comes from, they are good people, but not good muslims because they aren't following there scripture truly like the fundamentalists do.
If you think being open and honest about WW2 is a good thing, then being open and honest when talking about religion is also a good thing.
(Score: 1) by PlasticCogLiquid on Friday December 12 2014, @05:06PM
I left my NES on all day the day I finally beat BC, the cussing and head explosion blew my mind!
I was like 13 or 14.
(Score: 2) by tynin on Friday December 12 2014, @06:54PM
Damn you, now I have to go beat BC again. Thanks a lot for the memories but you've dropped a bomb on my weekend.
(Score: 2) by Tork on Friday December 12 2014, @08:58PM
The best part in that case is that the censors eliminated all the swaztikas and references to Nazi Germany but left in the words "Damn" and the head exploding.
Yes, apples and oranges are different. That's just amazing!
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 2, Insightful) by ikanreed on Friday December 12 2014, @02:46PM
And another generation of "my kid should grow up exactly like I did" happens.
Remember: Disney's corporate profits depend on your misplaced sense of nostalgia, so please, continue to "experiment" with old versions of everything. If not for your kids(no really, not for your kids), then for our poor American IP holders.
(Score: 2) by Blackmoore on Friday December 12 2014, @03:08PM
meh. Emulators and the games they run on cost nothing if you are doing it right.
If you are going for actual hardware you can find everything older than the PS2 for cheap - and the profits go to the business you buy the second hand stuff from; none of that goes back to the original copyright holder.
And yes; the old 8 bit games are not visually good. we knew that when we were playing them; and when we were writing them. You worked with what you had. You put the effort into gameplay and replay. We expected you to use your imagination to fill in for the blocky, blinky, awkward graphics.
I too exposed my kids to the old Atari games; and the arcade classics. they like them and mastered some of them too. And they still go outside too.
The win here is a Dad and his kid who have a shared interest - and mutually like each other.
(Score: 0) by Pino P on Friday December 12 2014, @04:35PM
Emulators and the games they run on cost nothing if you are doing it right.
The article mentioned concern for whether it's legal, which making a "complete GoodNES set" available is not. What (legal) kind of "doing it right" are you thinking of?
(Score: 2) by Blackmoore on Friday December 12 2014, @05:27PM
Why teaching the kid how to find torrents and abandonware.
Internet Archive has a number of them set up to run in a browser too.
(Score: 2) by Immerman on Friday December 12 2014, @05:27PM
Ah, I think I see your problem - you're operating under the illusion that "legal" and "right" are related concepts. Clearly you are either not a citizen of the US (or most countries, really), or are willfully ignorant. There is sometimes an overlap between the concepts, but usually only because nobody could figure out how to make obscene profits by buying new laws.
(Score: 0) by Pino P on Friday December 12 2014, @06:03PM
Opinions on what is "right" vary from person to person. Under what conditions should people do what they think is right even if it means getting bankrupted or locked up for years or both? Besides, I was under the impression that it isn't "right" to leave your children without a father while you are serving a prison sentence for criminal copyright infringement.
(Score: 2) by Immerman on Friday December 12 2014, @06:51PM
Criminal copyright infringement is a fairly high bar to cross - you're unlikely to make it stick unless dealing with a for-profit infringer, and even then it's likely to be a real challenge for out-of-print works.
§ 506. Criminal offenses
(a) Criminal Infringement. —
(1) In general. — Any person who willfully infringes a copyright shall be punished as provided under section 2319 of title 18, if the infringement was committed —
(A) for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain;
(B) by the reproduction or distribution, including by electronic means, during any 180-day period, of 1 or more copies or phonorecords of 1 or more copyrighted works, which have a total retail value of more than $1,000; or
(C) by the distribution of a work being prepared for commercial distribution, by making it available on a computer network accessible to members of the public, if such person knew or should have known that the work was intended for commercial distribution.
As for when you should do what's right despite it being illegal - that's a philosophical discussion for another day, but many would say "always". Civil disobedience is one of the few ways individuals can ethically work to bring down unjust laws enacted by a corrupt government. But it's no task for the faint of heart.
(Score: 0) by Pino P on Friday December 12 2014, @07:35PM
Even without the criminal penalties, a civil suit analogous to Sony v. Tenenbaum or Capitol v. Thomas could still destroy a father's ability to provide for his children. So under what conditions should a parent protest an unjust copyright law?
(Score: 2) by Immerman on Friday December 12 2014, @11:25PM
Well, that would be unfortunate, but not devastating. Provided of course that the mother was alive and competent.
I did say it's not a game for the faint of heart. And you shouldn't play unless you're willing to lose, because you probably will - at least temporarily. Nevertheless it's vitally important that some people do so, whenever and wherever they feel the cause warrants it, because it's pretty much the only way we can push back against a corrupt government. Just for god's sake get organized first. It's easy to crush a lone protester - successful civil disobedience is usually characterized by hundreds or thousands of people all breaking the law publicly and simultaneously. Or at the very least having the backing of a solid legal team who can expose the misapplication of law.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 13 2014, @12:11AM
While copy protection laws can be a good thing the current state of them is very bad. Their intent should be to expand the public domain and serve the public interest. They are clearly not doing so due to corruption. I think what needs to happen is that consumers must coherently demand that products be released under a license that automatically releases the product under some reasonable CC license after a certain number of years. In a sense this could substitute for a more reasonable copy protection length.
If consumers uniformly boycotted all content that doesn't release itself under a license that releases itself under a reasonable CC or equivalent license after ten years or so that will encourage all content creators (ie: publishers, software developers, etc...) to release their content under such a license. In that sense after ten years it's as thought the license (almost) entered the public domain.
Such principles should be passed from generation to generation. In such a manner we can collectively work around the travesty of copy protection laws by voting with our wallets and insisting on only buying content that releases itself under a license that releases the content under a CC license after a reasonable period of time so that future generations can freely benefit from the work. But we need to all work together.
(Score: 0) by Pino P on Saturday December 13 2014, @12:38AM
If consumers uniformly boycotted all content that doesn't release itself under a license that releases itself under a reasonable CC or equivalent license after ten years or so
I don't see how practical that can be when substantially all music played on FM radio is non-free, as is the firmware in your XM receiver, cellular radio, and digital audio player, as is the music played over the speaker system in your grocery store. And yes, you are paying for stores' background music as a fraction of what you spend in the store. Avoiding all non-free, non-Founders Copyright [creativecommons.org] works would require a change in one's way of life almost as comprehensive as, say, joining the Amish.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 13 2014, @12:48AM
Not necessarily. If consumers as a whole made it clear to store owners and radio broadcasters that they will favor stores that only play content released under a CC license (or a future CC license) then it can be done.
"Avoiding all non-free, non-Founders Copyright works would require a change in one's way of life almost as comprehensive as, say, joining the Amish."
This is only true if a small subset of the population did it. If a substantial portion of the population did it then content creators, radio stations, retail outlets, etc... will all adapt by offering better licensed content.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 13 2014, @12:25AM
"Opinions on what is "right" vary from person to person."
Laws should be intended to serve the public interest and not the interests of the few that buy them. IP laws should be about expanding the public domain and serving a public interest. Thanks to corruption they no longer do anything to serve the public interest. For this reason while I don't encourage others to break these laws I see nothing wrong with those that do and I will do nothing to help enforce them. I don't see it as morally wrong to break morally wrong laws that serve no public purpose and that aren't intended to and I will not judge those that do. Why should the public follow laws that are bought and paid for by a few corporations and intended to go against the public interest and why should I care when others break them? Whenever IP defenders complain "infringement" I'm going to respond with why should anyone care about self serving laws when they are broken? Fix IP law to serve the public interest and then I'll care, until then stop crying because I don't want to hear it and IP defenders do not have my sympathy when they complain about their laws being broken that they bought and paid for that aren't intended to serve the public interest. Let everyone keep infringing, the government won't have my support when it comes to enforcing bad laws and I will oppose the enforcement of these bad laws until they get fixed.
and for IP extremists to try and take the moral high ground is despicable. IP extremists (including many of the shills here) have absolutely no regard for morality and only care about themselves.
(Score: 2) by tibman on Friday December 12 2014, @03:50PM
Disney does not still sell brand new NES games. Nobody sells brand new NES games. IP holders don't get anything from second-hand sales (until you get into some DRM'd modern games).
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(Score: 0) by Pino P on Friday December 12 2014, @04:38PM
Disney does not still sell brand new NES games.
But it does sell remakes of its NES games, like the DuckTales game it did with Capcom [capcom-unity.com].
(Score: 2) by ikanreed on Friday December 12 2014, @05:02PM
Uh, no. Nintendo definitely sells "brand new" NES games. Unless you mean recently developed [nintendo.com]
(Score: 2) by tibman on Friday December 12 2014, @06:13PM
lol, nice! My only argument is a weak one. If you can't play it on an NES then is it really an NES game? Buying a used NES + used games would probably be cheaper than buying one of those games brand new on a WII.
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(Score: 2) by Leebert on Friday December 12 2014, @07:37PM
It's been a few years since my nephew "temporarily" borrowed my Wii, but at least as of then you could pay to download many legacy NES games and play them on the Wii.
(Score: 2) by tibman on Friday December 12 2014, @07:42PM
Thanks : ) Pino P and ikanreed pointed this out as well. Very cool feature!
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(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 12 2014, @02:49PM
Would they appreciate the retro aesthetic, or just think it looks crappy?
I grew up thru all of those systems (still own about 600 of them). Now... some games if done correctly it does look 'retro' and kind of cool. Others it comes off as lazy and cheap looking. Frankly many look like crap. The older games may be retro but *many* of them had very poor play mechanics. The early era there was tons of experimentation with control play and what was fun or frustrating. For example many adventure games to stretch out gameplay will make you walk the entirety of the game several times just to acquire 1 object.
It is sort of like cars. I grew up thru about 4 decades (so far) of different cars out there. Would I buy a 70s era car? No, they frankly are overpowered crap boxes that get 7mpg with the later part of the decade being underpowered crap boxes that get 12. Can I appreciate a 350 tapping out the song of its people? Sure can. But I would never buy one. I would buy a modern overpowered box with 40 years of tech to go along with it and gets 25-30mpg.
With this experiment you need to also give that kid some of the craptastic games too. There were many. If you want him to appreciate what is out there. Many of us were excited by ET (after watching the movie). Then disappointed with its bland colors and merciless gameplay (then we read the book how to play it which conveniently came with the game). The same with Pac-Man from the 2600. Or Teenage mutant ninja turtles for the NES. There are lots of overhyped games that seriously disappointed people. You also need to forwards/backwards too. For example gauntlet on the NES. After playing the arcade version was seriously disappointing graphics wise. However, it was at least enjoyable.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 12 2014, @02:55PM
We go swimming, climbing and running.
You have to see what happens to the development when you do it daily.
At 2 years of age he climbs to the top of trees and dives to the bottom of our lagoon.
Staring for hours into a screen daily.
No thanks.
(Score: 3, Funny) by Nerdfest on Friday December 12 2014, @03:40PM
.. and instead of playing mind games with your kids, play them with others. Whenever my friends kids are over I teach them that whenever they're at a friends house for dinner and the father reaches for something at the dinner table, they should cower and cover their face. That never gets old.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by tibman on Friday December 12 2014, @04:14PM
There is time for both. I was a very active kid (building secret forts in the woods) and still taught myself qbasic at 12. Installed linux for the first time just one year before joining the US Army as a 19D Scout. Bought an armored laptop to teach myself C++ and PHP. Fortunately wifi is universal and doesn't have a language barrier. You can go "wardriving" in every country of the world. Hiking up a mountain is just as rewarding as hacking something (and staring at a screen for hours). Don't choose, do both. I don't have to tell you which one is currently paying the bills. Really wish i had a neckbeard mentor as a kid.
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(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 12 2014, @05:05PM
I'm sure you drive there in your Prius after stopping at Whole Foods to pick up your non-GMO, unprocessed snacks. You've got to get your time in now before he starts at Montessori school because he'll have to spend more time on his French lessons.
Yeah, I get what you're trying to say, but I can't help getting that vibe off you that you're one of "those" douchebags.
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Friday December 12 2014, @04:47PM
If you have a kid, why not run experiments on them? It’s like running experiments on a little clone of yourself! And almost always probably legal.
I'm sure there are a lot of psychotherapists that would twitch if they read that.
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 2) by francois.barbier on Friday December 12 2014, @06:12PM
See "6 Terrifying Experiments Parents Did on Their Own Kids [cracked.com]":
And "Klingon as a Second Language [washingtoncitypaper.com]".
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Monday December 15 2014, @06:27PM
Most of the things on that list are a bit creepy, but teaching your son a second language is useful. Teaching your son how to speak Klingon might be a bit sketchy, but it's kind of awesome.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 13 2014, @06:28AM
Is going to grow up really fucked up.
(Score: 2) by el_oscuro on Sunday December 14 2014, @01:13AM
Our radio station was interviewing Doug Fister, the Nationals pitcher. His family comes from a military background, and he was telling the story of another serviceman, who had a son. They played catch with a baseball everyday. Then one day, dad was ordered to Afghanistan for a tour of duty. His son asked, "daddy, how will we play catch when you are in Afghanistan?" Having no answer he just said "we'll play it when I get back". A little while later, the son said "Daddy, I have a way we can play catch while you are away." Dad, wondering what it was listened: "I'll write the date on the ball, sign it and mail it to you in Afghanistan. When you get it, you sign it and mail it back". We'll play catch through the mail. So they did. Totally wicked cool.
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