from the exempt-from-the-law-of-the-land dept.
TechDirt reports:
[...]the FISA Court has the reputation as a rubberstamp for a reason--it almost never turns down a request.
However, in the rare instances where it does, apparently, the DOJ doesn't really care, knowing that it can just issue [a National Security Letter] instead and get the same information. At least that appears to be what the DOJ quietly admitted to doing in a now declassified Inspector General's report from 2008(PDF). EFF lawyer Nate Cardozo was going through and spotted this troubling bit:
We considered the Section 215 request for [REDACTED] discussed earlier in this report at pages 33 to 34 to be a noteworthy item. In this case, the FISA Court had twice declined to approve a Section 215 application based on First Amendment Concerns. However, the FBI subsequently issued NSLs for information [REDACTED] even though the statute authorizing the NSLs contained the same First Amendment restriction as Section 215 and the ECs authorizing the NSLs relied on the same facts contained in the Section 215 applicants...
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 31 2014, @10:03PM
I must say, I'm shocked that this would happen.
No, actually, I'm not. I'm reminded of bully-boy employers and managers who, when they can't get their way using one method, do whatever it takes to get their way using another.
What I am is appalled.
Right now, I don't live in the United States, but since the Prime Minister of this country is obsessed with turning us into Little America, I imagine I will be before too many years are up. The only things missing will be the right to firearms, and that we use right-hand-drive vehicles.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 01 2015, @01:36AM
It has nothing to do with "bully-boy" anybodies. It is human nature to seek alternate paths when the easiest route is blocked We all do it all the time. That's why we have laws to define what the government can do. The answer is to get the laws changed back. But that is a lot harder than calling people names.
(Score: 2) by SuperCharlie on Wednesday December 31 2014, @10:21PM
The Aristocrats
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 31 2014, @11:37PM
The Aristocrats [wikipedia.org]
-- gewg_
(Score: 5, Informative) by edIII on Wednesday December 31 2014, @10:22PM
You mean the FBI, who is fighting an information war against Americans (and the Constitution), for over 50 years, has been shown to not be participating in good faith under the law?
The FBI doesn't care to engage in actual debate about privacy or civil rights. Their position is clear, which is there is no privacy or civil rights allowed between *them* and the citizenry. Their battle is on many fronts, and when one front is failing, they switch to another front. The FBI will never consider the change must come from within them.
Perhaps this might be solved with actual accountability all the way up to dismissal of the director, but the FBI is not known for accountability within their ranks or playing fairly with any other arm of government either. It's a group of bullies, created by a paranoid closeted transgendered asshole who felt like he was saving America by asking MLK to commit suicide. Ohh, and they happen to do police work occasionally on a national level.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 2) by dcollins on Wednesday December 31 2014, @11:44PM
On that note, I find it pretty distressingly instructive what's going on in NYC in the moment. When there are just a few public protests and official comments that reform might be a good idea (over the slaying of nonviolent citizens, with formally banned tactics), the entire police force goes for a total work stoppage. Bright side might be realizing how counterproductive their usual efforts are, and that we could fire a lot of them, but I doubt that's how this will play out.
http://nypost.com/2014/12/29/arrests-plummet-following-execution-of-two-cops/ [nypost.com]
http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/emails-and-racist-chats-show-how-cops-and-gop-are-teaming-undermine-de-blasio?page=0%2C1 [alternet.org]
I only wish they'd get this upset about something like illegal ticket quotas or the like. But no, it's a fairly small amount of push-back against suspicionless stop-and-frisk and actual killings that has them ready to try and hold the city hostage. Bullies is the right word.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 01 2015, @12:52AM
If the page you have found contains the text Next page, that is a really shitty page to link to.
Find the link that says View as a single page and use THAT link. [alternet.org]
(It will contain the parameter paging=off.
Note also that page=0%2C1 and current_page=1 are just noise.)
N.B. Alternet's techies are idiots--and, though that site has gone through several sets of those, things, while they have *changed*, have NOT **improved** significantly.
It also doesn't hurt if you append #main-content to the link.
-- gewg_
(Score: 2) by dcollins on Thursday January 01 2015, @03:44AM
The one-page view was intentional, so as to draw attention to the section of comments from police chat sites.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 01 2015, @09:14AM
{Roseanne Roseannadanna voice}
Oh. Well, that's different. Never mind.
-- gewg_
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday January 01 2015, @01:12AM
Uhhhhh - let me remind you that Whatsisname did NOT die from a "chokehold". Didn't happen. If you believe that, then you have been taken in with yet another media buzzword. Garner - Thatsisname. Fat bastard decided to fight the cops, rather than go along with the program. Cops took him down. Put him in a hold. NOT A CHOKEHOLD!! Fat bastard had lost of health problems, most of them apparently caused by obesity. Fat bastard expires on the ground. He wasn't murdered, he committed suicide by police.
There are at least TWO perfectly legitimate innocent young black males who have been killed by overzealous police in recent months. Why aren't the black and liberal communities holding THOSE young men up as poster boys, instead of idiots who should be awarded Darwin awards?
(Score: 3, Informative) by dcollins on Thursday January 01 2015, @03:41AM
Lies. The Medical Examiner's office ruled the killing as a homicide, and explicitly called out the chokehold as a cause of death. Also: we're not blind.
Eric Garner’s July 17 death has been ruled a homicide, Medical Examiner’s office spokeswoman Julie Bolcer said Friday. His death was caused by the “compression of his neck (chokehold), compression of his chest and prone positioning during physical restraint by police” and asthma, heart disease and obesity were contributing factors, Bolcer said.
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/08/01/medical-examiner-rules-eric-garners-death-a-homicide/ [cbslocal.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 01 2015, @06:45AM
Runaway is an unabashed racist and an authoritarian.
If the guy was even slightly brown and he's now dead, Runaway *knows* the guy was a criminal.
Your "evidence" changes nothing.
I'm proof that -some- overcome the influences of their upbringing. [metrolyrics.com]
Many simply never do.
-- gewg_
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday January 01 2015, @09:48AM
And, you are unabashedly ignorant. I cited not one, but TWO young black males who were outright MURDERED in Ohio. I've argued long and loud on many forums that Trayvon Martin was murdered. The REAL racists, with whom you have me confused, just automagically ASSume that Zimmerman had some kind of a "right" to "stand his ground" against the black guy in the mostly white neighborhood.
I am discriminating. I can discriminate between a wannabe cop, a bad cop, and a good cop.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday January 01 2015, @09:55AM
Do some research. In wresting, choke holds are also barred. High school and collegiate wrestling have very strict rules about it. The hold seen in the video is a legal hold in any wrestling venue.
Are you a veteran? Most veterans will readily recognize a choke hold. Do you hold any martial arts belts? Again, anyone who has a belt will recognize the various holds.
Fat bastard was not choked to death. Doesn't matter how many ignorant people say that he was choked to death - the video is up on Youtube, I can watch it again and again. The cop's arm is not compressing the parts of the anatomy necessary for BREATHING.
And, a person who is hollering "I can't breathe" repeatedly may or may not be having DIFFICULTY in breathing, but he is still BREATHING. It takes breath to talk.
FFS, open your eyes, and use your mind.
(Score: 2) by sjames on Friday January 02 2015, @07:40AM
I'm going to go with the M.E. on this one.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday January 02 2015, @02:41PM
That doesn't sound terribly unreasonable. But, when you actually stop and THINK about it - it is somewhat unreasonable. You have chosen to believe an "expert". We all know that there are various levels of expertise. Believing one expert may or may not be bad - but you should probably double and even triple check your expert's level of expertise in a critical decision. Further, I'm certain that by now, we all know that an expert's judgement may be swayed by political beliefs and/or affiliation. It happens. We don't know (or I don't anyway) whether this particular ME has an axe to grind. ME's are people - is THIS particular ME black or white? Is he liberal or conservative? Has he ever lost a family member or friend to police action which he judged as wrong on personal grounds?
Further, we've ALL read stories of court battles in which the prosecution hires their experts, the defense hires their own, and renowned experts offer mutually exclusive opinions. In those cases, we may be looking at legitimate differences of opinion, OR, we may be looking at dishonest experts looking after their bank accounts - or maybe a blend of both.
And, perhaps, this ME has political aspirations of his own. Maybe he plans to run for office, and hopes to sway the black voters in his favor.
I don't KNOW anything about this ME, except that he has apparently made an erroneous judgement in Garner's case. He may be the greatest ME to have ever walked the streets of New York, he may rescue puppies and kittens in his off time, he may deliver meals to the homeless, he may be in line for sainthood. He may be the most likeable person I could ever meet. That doesn't change the fact that I disagree with his judgement in this case.
Watch the video. Trust the evidence given to you by your own eyes.
Please - if you have any doubts what you are looking at, take a little time to research PRECISELY what makes one hold legal, and what makes another very similar hold ILLEGAL. Then watch the videos again.
Once again - there are plenty of police actions that are apparently motivated by prejudice. We can find any number of young black males who have been murdered, because the cops were incompetent, callous, racist, prejudiced, trigger-happy, or whatever. I've already cited two cases above in which the cops involved should be convicted of manslaughter at the least.
There is an old truism, that you should pick your fights. The black community is indeed often victimized by the system. But - if you are going to fight that victimization, then choose carefully which victims you are going to fight for.
Despite the fact that I KNOW blacks are targeted by shithead cops - I am somewhat alienated by the activists who want to change things. I am alienated by the fact that they have chosen TWO cases to fight for, in which the supposed "victims" weren't all that terribly victimized.
Replace Garner with that 12 year old Rice kid who was shot to death for playing with a TOY, and I can wholeheartedly get on board with all the protests. In that case, you have a true innocent, outright murdered by the people who should have INVESTIGATED a false report. For that kid, for his family, I really give a damn.
Garner? Just a dumb old guy who would be alive today, had he only submitted to one more ride down to the precinct, gone through some formalities, and showed up in court some weeks later. If you're going to resist arrest, you better have a DAMNED good reason. His death was his own responsibility, and it was just plain STUPID!
Michael Brown? Please - give that one a break. You can't paint that case in any way that is complimentary to the supposed "victim". That kid was looking for a place to die, and he found it within minutes after committing a strong arm robbery. No matter how you present that case, Brown was a dangerous young man. I can't empathize with him at all.
(Score: 2) by sjames on Friday January 02 2015, @08:31PM
What makes you believe the M.E. was in error, have you reviewed the autopsy notes and/or video? Are you an M.E. or even an avid armchair anatomist? Did his finding show any failures of logic?
I agree that M.E.s can be in error. That's why we don't just pass sentence on people when the M.E. says homicide. We have an entire due process with a trial and a jury of one's peers to review the M.E.'s findings and decide if the conclusion is trustworthy. That includes the defense having a chance to have their own expert review the autopsy and rebut the findings.
The legality or not of a particular hold does nothing to negate the cause of death, though at trial it may make a great difference in the culpability of the defendant or in the severity of the crime.
As for people overreacting, perhaps a lifetime of seeing things like the Rice kid's killing resulting in a paid vacation and no prosecution have pushed them over the edge. As for Garner, a lifetime of harassment coupled with a bad day can do that to a person. See every story of the bullied kid finally popping the bully in the nose (or going nuts and shooting the place up).
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday January 03 2015, @12:06PM
"The legality or not of a particular hold does nothing to negate the cause of death, though at trial it may make a great difference in the culpability of the defendant or in the severity of the crime."
And, there you have it. No culpability on the part of the police in this particular case. They didn't choke the man to death. He died of causes other than being choked to death.
Now, that particular hold is MEANT to restrict the flow of blood to the brain. For that reason it has been described as a "sleeper hold" by some. Maybe, just maybe, if liberals could actually properly describe that hold, and define what it is meant to do, we could have a more intelligent discussion.
NOW, may we move on, and discuss innocent young black men who have been gunned down for no good reason? We don't have such a person here.
(Score: 2) by sjames on Saturday January 03 2015, @06:56PM
It is clear that your mind is made up and you would prefer not to be confused by the facts, so I'll spare you the discomfort.
(Score: 2) by frojack on Thursday January 01 2015, @12:08AM
Looks like someone printed this out on a nine-pin dotmatrix printer with a 5 year old ribbon and then scanned it in using something straight out of 1958.
The PDF is a mess.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 2) by Snotnose on Thursday January 01 2015, @12:53AM
doesn't stand for No Such Luck.
When the dust settled America realized it was saved by a porn star.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by FuzzyTheBear on Thursday January 01 2015, @12:55AM
The USA is not the land of the free. Why would they respect the constitution and the law ? Not a single citizen is moving their butts to walk on the capital to have change made. What the USA needs is a good old revolution . If you think they will change the laws to loose their grip they have on the people think again , the USA is a police state that is in place to keep the people in slavery to the richest of them all . The US is simply a modern version of Egypt. Go back to work slaves .. your rich masters need you to work to pay for their yatchs.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday January 01 2015, @01:15AM
Yatchs, or watches? I know those rolex watches can cost a bundle, but a rich man doesn't even notice it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 01 2015, @01:25AM
Not a single citizen is moving their butts to walk on the capital
Even more fundamentally, they continue to vote for the lesser of 2 evils (Red|Blue).
Many aren't even bothering to vote.
People who have been on the presidential ballot in recent years:
Rocky Anderson - Justice Party;
Jill Stein, Cynthia McKinney, David Cobb, Ralph Nader - all Greens.
Nader has been on the ballot continuously since 1992 (lately without a party).
There has never been another guy on the ballot opposite him who is smarter than he is.
I'll even list Dennis Kucinich - Democrat.
He's definitely not your typical Blue; on the Political Compass, he charts with the Greens.
-- gewg_
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 01 2015, @06:28AM
On the other hand, the people that are currently discussing these issues are able to speak freely in the USA. There are plenty of places around the world where this kind of in-depth look at illegal police practices would get you arrested.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 02 2015, @04:53PM
Are you claiming that it's A-OK because you can talk about it as long as you don't DO anything about it?
Vanish from my sight; you are short-sighted
(Score: 2) by kaszz on Thursday January 01 2015, @01:44AM
Considering that the first amendment says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
One could assume that the request is part of a move to suppress religion, speech, press, assembly, or redress.