The Guardian is reporting that the US government seems convinced of North Korean involvement in the recent Sony hacks, and has today imposed further sanctions against the country.
Despite some continued claims from outside the US government that the hack may have been the work of disgruntled employees instead, the White House on Friday followed through on its threat to seek revenge, blaming the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea for “provocative, destabilizing, and repressive actions and policies, particularly its destructive and coercive cyber attack on Sony Pictures Entertainment”.
Scott Borg writing for CNBC has some alternative theories:
North Korea regularly carries out cyber attacks, but these attacks have always been relatively crude. Groups that monitor North Korea's cyber activities have never seen any sign that North Korea is currently a serious cyber threat or on the verge of becoming one.
The cyber attacks carried out against Sony required a much higher level of skill than North Korea could manage as recently as last spring.
[...] Here are some of the possibilities:
1) A criminal enterprise, perhaps ethnically Russian, that wants to confuse anyone investigating its extortion attempt by dragging in North Korea.
2) A group of criminal cyber attackers, perhaps South Korean, who have been mistaken for North Korea, because they simply used some of the same generally available attack tools and servers that North Korea would have used.
3) Ideologically-motivated hackers in Western countries who hate Sony and feel a common cause with anyone else who is Sony's enemy, including North Korea.
4) Former employees who want to hurt Sony and who figured they could add to Sony's woes by stirring up a conflict between Sony and a foreign government, such as North Korea.
5) Any group that wants the United States to take a harder line with North Korea, including many South Koreans, Japanese, and others in East and Southeast Asia.
Borg concludes the article:
The list of possibilities grows larger, the more you think about it. Even more possibilities emerge when you consider that different groups could have cooperated in the attacks, and that the same attackers might have had more than one motive.
Does this make the proposals in the media for making North Korea pay for these attacks sound more than a little naïve? Welcome to the world of cyber conflict! We all better get used to it, because this is what faces us in the year ahead.
(Score: 2) by bziman on Saturday January 03 2015, @03:05AM
It boggles the mind that our politicians spend so much time and effort bullying countries like North Korea and Cuba. They pose zero threat to us - even less of a threat than the countries in the Middle East - who are only a threat because they have at least a minimal capability of resisting America's bullying. Even if North Korea is responsible for the hacking, who cares? If you want to impose sanctions, how about imposing them on companies that can't be bothered to implement basic network security? Of course, unlike North Korea, the big companies can afford to buy representation in America's ruling conglomerate. I'm embarrassed on behalf of my country.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 03 2015, @04:09AM
In order to look tough we have to pick on everyone we don't like. If you're not hawkish then your helping the terrorists win. How many more American children must die for you to be happy? Rhetoric: because fear breeds votes.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Saturday January 03 2015, @07:30AM
The terrists scare won't last long enough, there is a need of something new the US populace needs to be scared or indignant of.
And China's too big for the purpose.
Nope, I disagree.
You see... it's no longer big.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1) by RedGreen on Saturday January 03 2015, @03:50PM
While I am no big fan of US foreign policy you leave out North Korea developed a nuclear bomb from your rant and the US/other governments response to that. Cuba that policy never has made sense the Americans got their panties in a bunch on that, how dare some puny little country tell them to take their wonderful system of government interference in others affairs on behalf of their corporations looking to enslave people in foreign lands and tell them to stick it where the sun don't shine.
"I modded down, down, down, and the flames went higher." -- Sven Olsen
(Score: 2) by bziman on Sunday January 04 2015, @02:41AM
So what? You think only your country has a right to nuclear deterrent? Gimme a break. It's like saying hornets are a threat because they can sting... sure, if you keep poking their nest! Leave them alone and they'll leave you alone. Without America's interference, I'd bet that China would have already prodded North Korea into the 21st century... but they don't, because it's too much fun watching America waste time and resources on them.
(Score: 2) by emg on Saturday January 03 2015, @08:19PM
Bullies only bully people who pose no threat to them, silly. Why would they bully someone who does?
All this really does is make the US government look even dumber to the rest of the world, where most people figured out long ago that North Korea had nothing to do with it.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 03 2015, @03:05AM
Funny how sanctions aren't working against Cuba so we better stop them, yet we're going to double down on North Korea and Russia...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 03 2015, @04:17AM
Yeah, amazing how simplifying every situation into a single binary choice totally explains everything. The world is soooo obvious.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 03 2015, @04:00AM
It's easy to come up with a list such as the one presented by the CNBC columnist, after almost any hack or accident or disaster that makes headlines across the world. Wait... maybe the CIA or the Russians ordered the downing of the AirAsia jet. Wait... maybe the "Interview" threats were a false flag, nice...
I think professional journalists need to be held to a higher standard of evidence than Slashdot or Reddit forum posters. If it could be a false flag, where is the evidence? If disgruntled Sony ex-employees pulled it off, why wouldn't they have been satisfied by incredible PR disaster that Sony had just been subject to (or subjected itself to) as a result of the leaking of the executive emails?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 03 2015, @06:28AM
Rather, unless you have a solid evidence that someone did it, just admit that you don't know. This goes for people blaming North Korea, as well.
(Score: 2) by kaszz on Saturday January 03 2015, @07:17AM
Seems USA got an excuse to use their power apparatus.
(Score: 1) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Saturday January 03 2015, @05:29AM
... during the Gulf of Tonkin incident on August 2nd, 1964.
If it was the North Vietnamese who started the Vietnam War, why was my father, a Lieutenant in the USN, training for jungle survival in the Philippines when I was born on February 24, 1964? The telegram with the news of my birth took three weeks to reach him.
Hi was an antiaircraft missile fire control officer. That's never made a whole lot of sense to me.
Perhaps Obama is looking for a provocation to set Kim-Jong Un up The Bomb.
I personally believe that someone walked out of Sony with all those documents on a USB stick. There's no way there could have been so many files transferred without something turning up in Sony's logs.
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 1) by Synonymous Homonym on Saturday January 03 2015, @06:26AM
I think it was a PR stunt by Sony.
(Score: 2) by Tork on Saturday January 03 2015, @09:57PM
I think it was a PR stunt by Sony.
Yeah, Sony released the personal details of 10,000+ employees to the interwebs and exposed themselves to a massive lawsuit and serious labor issues because they wanted people to watch a Seth Rogen film.
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 04 2015, @03:19PM
Sony released the personal details of 10,000+ employees to the interwebs and exposed themselves to a massive lawsuit and serious labor issues because they wanted people to watch a Seth Rogen film.
And it worked.
(Score: 2) by Tork on Sunday January 04 2015, @08:49PM
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 2) by zeigerpuppy on Saturday January 03 2015, @06:30AM
With the state of the US economy, it can only be a few years before China has a dominant military presence in the north pacific (not necessarily by technological superiority but just by sheer number of capable assets).
Perhaps the US is trying to make a case for containment of this escalating threat.
The disputed areas around China certainly provide a fertile ground for starting conflict.
I like to think about the freedom of speech that would have occurred if North Korea released a film about killing Obama to the mass market. I think he may be singing a different tune then about the right to artistic expression.
We do live in a topsy turvy world
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 04 2015, @12:01AM
Mike, the military doesn't wait for a war to start before it trains people. Training cycles go on all the time, and without knowing your dad's career arc, there's no way of answering that question.
I had both water and swamp survival training in 1961.
(Score: 1) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Saturday January 03 2015, @05:35AM
... by firing squad for appearing in pr0n.
It turned out that report came from a right-wing South Korean "journalist". She wasn't executed, nor was she ever accused of any crime by the DPRK.
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 03 2015, @07:26AM
Clips or it didn't happen.
(Score: 1) by zugedneb on Saturday January 03 2015, @08:53AM
so, what counts journalism today?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzLyvgMwgUU [youtube.com]
http://www.wired.com/2014/12/evidence-of-north-korea-hack-is-thin/ [wired.com]
http://slashdot.org/~s.petry [slashdot.org]
I posted last week the same thoughts, even providing links to other professionals who ask "Where any evidence demonstrating that North Korea is the culprit?". I was subsequently rated a "TROLL" for linking the Wired Article and asking the question. Specifically stating like you, that it's become propaganda and facts don't seem to matter. Since people seem to be too lazy to read the Wired article (or any others) here is a 30 minute video.
The quote "If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it, and you will even come to believe it yourself." surely comes to mind, and since people don't seem to be able to discern fact from opinion these days it's an easy game for propagandists to play.
Why is it relevant? Because sanctions against the DPRK will not hurt the people in charge of the DPRK. They will have their food, wine, and women (or what ever they prefer) no matter what. North Korea can get what ever they need through China, and already does in large part. The people who will be suffering are those already starving.
Not only is the punishment unjustly targeted, but it harms exactly the _wrong_ people.
old saying: "a troll is a window into the soul of humanity" + also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ajax
(Score: 1) by zugedneb on Saturday January 03 2015, @09:09AM
some more on it:
https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2014/12/more_data_on_at.html [schneier.com]
old saying: "a troll is a window into the soul of humanity" + also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ajax
(Score: 2) by zocalo on Saturday January 03 2015, @11:55AM
It was exactly the same story about the "proof" the US had about WMD in Iraq too, and we all know how that turned out. Yet here we are, once again, seeing the media mindlessly reporting unsubstantiated claims as "facts" and the majority of the general public swallowing it hook, line and sinker - with a copy of the Angling Times thrown in for good measure. I remember when we still had some journalists and editors in the media that would have responded to this kind of bullshit with "Facts on the record or STFU!", but it appears we'd better get used to our new doubleplus good state approved media content, because it sure doesn't seem like it's going away any time soon.
UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
(Score: 1) by RedGreen on Saturday January 03 2015, @04:01PM
NK has the atomic bomb a WMD they admit it there is no dispute of that fact among the governments/media of this world, at least not any that report the truth.
"I modded down, down, down, and the flames went higher." -- Sven Olsen
(Score: 2) by zocalo on Saturday January 03 2015, @05:05PM
UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
(Score: 2) by Yog-Yogguth on Sunday January 04 2015, @04:43PM
I would throw in Syria, Ukraine, and Russia too since those are among the big ones, and of course there's plenty of small stuff that is much harder to identify as intentional nonsense (i.e. somewhat believable claims or the actions based on it turning into mud the more you look or as events unfold). Maybe the Cuba story also fits the bill since it's not likely to sail through Congress and Senate, has half a century of accrued antagonism, could split the US Cuban community (or split the splits), and even manages to piss off Israel lol: lots of noise to be made.
In my opinion the actual story is that the US government is running from one public distraction exercise to the next and then back again doing their best to keep them all alive and smoldering.
As I perceive it things got busy after Snowden so to me that seems to be the core reason (and an understandable one to me), then again it does seem like it has accelerated a lot recently (last six months) and (as always I guess) there are now rumors of even bigger things (jazz hands handwaving) over the horizon. If there are any little green or gray men anywhere they better get ready for the public parade :D (that is a joke, and even more so if anything of the sort hits the headlines/makes a lot “news”).
Some of it might be due to misunderstandings and/or “conspiracy theories” but in the current context someone getting a wild guess right could be enough to seriously freak out whoever is in charge, so there's the possibility of lucky hits as well. It could also be innocent stuff that one wouldn't consider; if someone is ahead of the curve (as they want to be) they might know what is likely to trigger big changes if left alone, maybe such a condition has appeared. maybe several.
Or it could be more of the same (Schneier is up to there being six different leakers now isn't he? Not counting anyone before Snowden. Something like that, maybe just four or five?).
Bite harder Ouroboros, bite! tails.boum.org/ linux USB CD secure desktop IRC *crypt tor (not endorsements (XKeyScore))
(Score: 1) by CaptainK on Saturday January 03 2015, @12:57PM
If you really want to see the truth about how sanctions are working, just do a simple search.
Search for the largest shopping malls in the world.
Oh what's that!
Iran has not one but TWO of the largest in the world, ranked number 6 and number 8.
So, do you really think sanctions are something real or just a big bunch of bullshit?
Your imagination is your only limitation to creation.
(Score: 2) by wantkitteh on Saturday January 03 2015, @02:47PM
Something here already isn't adding up. The FBI are highly competent (an assumption, but a fairly safe one) yet they publicly blamed North Korea for this *very quickly*. Too quickly. Even though the evidence that's emerged since then contradicts this position pretty strongly, the FBI are not changing their position at all. That's not how investigations like this work - you hear nothing except "we're looking into every angle and thoroughly investigating every lead" while cameras glare at office buildings being tossed and newspeople speculate on TV, followed a couple of weeks later by The Big Announcement, complete with the course of action irrevocably initiated just before the announcement to avoid tipping off the perps.
That's not how this is going at all. This is a cover-up of opportunity - someone has dropped the lie that North Korea were responsible for this into the public eye as fast as possible because the first version the public hear is the one that sticks in it's collective memory. Think the WMD story that caused Iraq II, it wasn't until years after the disaster capitalists had sloped off into the sunset with billions of dollars of US taxpayer money that the lie was exposed in the public mind. In that case, the liars knew what the truth was. In this case, they couldn't care less - they saw an opening and fed the FBI "The Right Answer" along with orders to get it out there as soon as possible, screw the investigation.
It's depressing, this kind of logical progression used to be called a conspiracy theory and dismissed as absurd. Now it happens all the time every day and we're used to it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 03 2015, @04:38PM
You surely remember the invisible WMDs? I guess any reason will do, just like anybody's son will do...