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posted by martyb on Friday January 23 2015, @09:57AM   Printer-friendly
from the significant-figures dept.

Forget the critics' opinion, audience figures, or box office take. What really sets a film apart is the number of times it's later referenced in other moving pictures.

That's according to a Northwestern University team led by Luis Amaral, which set out to determine what criterion best predicted a work's inclusion in the US Library of Congress's National Film Registry as being "culturally, historically, or aesthetically significant".

After conducting a "a big data study of 15,425 US-produced films listed in the Internet Movie Database (IMDb)", which applied both subjective metrics--"(critical reviews, awards, public opinion) and objective (citations, box office sales)"--the conclusion was that these weren't as accurate in predicting Film Registry glory as how many nods a work received in subsequent flicks.

[The study put] Star Wars and Psycho into second and third spots in the significance league table. [...] the fourth and fifth most significant silver screen outings were Casablanca and Gone With the Wind.

Amaral's ultimate aim is to develop a method for determining "the most significant scientific papers".

He explained: "More than 1 million scientific papers are published each year worldwide. It can be difficult to distinguish a good scientific paper from an average one, much like the movies. My next goal is to develop a good measure of scientific citations to get inside what is going on in the scientific literature."

Readers can judge for themselves the significance of the Northwestern University study--dubbed Cross-evaluation of metrics to estimate the significance of creative works--when it appears in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS).

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  • (Score: 2) by kaszz on Friday January 23 2015, @11:44AM

    by kaszz (4211) on Friday January 23 2015, @11:44AM (#137208) Journal

    If your academic paper can create a new industry in the same way that integrated chips made way for computing industry or jet motor for the international air travel. Or a new scientific field. Then, you have made a significant contribution. Perhaps one method is to investigate which academic papers that is referred by most others (Google style).

    As for movies, rate how important a paper is and then find out which movies they mention and so on. Most mentioning is not necessarily the most important factor for significance.

    • (Score: 2) by Jeremiah Cornelius on Friday January 23 2015, @05:02PM

      by Jeremiah Cornelius (2785) on Friday January 23 2015, @05:02PM (#137315) Journal

      The most significant movie is "They Live". FNORD.

      "I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass... and I'm all out of bubblegum."

      http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096256/ [imdb.com]

      --
      You're betting on the pantomime horse...
      • (Score: 2) by pnkwarhall on Friday January 23 2015, @06:09PM

        by pnkwarhall (4558) on Friday January 23 2015, @06:09PM (#137346)

        Seconded, great movie.

        OT, but if you liked the general theme of "possession of hidden conspiracy knowledge" and "rebelling against said conspiracy" + dystopia, watch Branded [wikipedia.org]. Not as good a movie, but maybe worth your time.

        --
        Lift Yr Skinny Fists Like Antennas to Heaven
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 23 2015, @10:11PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 23 2015, @10:11PM (#137446)

        At one time, Wikipedia had an excellent write-up on that.
        Here's one of the remaining copies of that version. [googleusercontent.com] (orig--kinda) [explained.at]

        -- gewg_

  • (Score: 2) by Geotti on Friday January 23 2015, @01:09PM

    by Geotti (1146) on Friday January 23 2015, @01:09PM (#137222) Journal

    Maybe it was the book that got the mentions? What a joke...

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 23 2015, @05:41PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 23 2015, @05:41PM (#137336)

      I had the same thought. In the entertainment industry especially, many things are borrowed from one work or another. If I mention the name Snow White, am I referring the the well known Disney movie, the earlier works by the Brothers Grimm (who borrowed heavily from local tradition), or some other more modern adaptation? Without some documentation from the author, it is had to tell what inspired a particular story.

  • (Score: 1) by Nuke on Friday January 23 2015, @01:44PM

    by Nuke (3162) on Friday January 23 2015, @01:44PM (#137231)

    I have never seen a movie that "references" The Wizard of Oz. How do they do that? Even if true, why is the opinion/whim of another film director supposed to be better than a critic's view, or the public's view?

    As for references generally, like in IMDB or newspapers and forums, the reference might be to how bad the movie is. Like "Plan 9 from Outer Space" is said to be the worst film ever made, and as such is one of the most referenced. There, I have just referred to again myself.

    • (Score: 2) by theluggage on Friday January 23 2015, @02:51PM

      by theluggage (1797) on Friday January 23 2015, @02:51PM (#137251)

      I have never seen a movie that "references" The Wizard of Oz.

      Really? Which two movies have you seen, and was either of them "The Wizard of Oz"?

      For example, any movie in which a character says "I don't think we're in Kansas any more" or any other WOz quote would count. E.g. the Joker does the "I'm melting...!" routine in the 1989 Batman film (also done in Shrek 4 and Oz knows where else).

      If you want more examples knock yourself out... [imdb.com]

      Tron: Legacy uses 2D for the beginning and ending, set in the "real" world, and switches to 3D for the computer world: bet you an internet that was inspired by the use of black and white for the "Kansas" scenes in WOz. (I'm sure other films have borrowed that - ISTR "A Matter of Life and Death" was another one).

      Even if true, why is the opinion/whim of another film director supposed to be better than a critic's view, or the public's view?

      Well, yes, there's no such thing as a good measure of how "good" a film is. However, this one is essentially measuring the extent to which the details of a film have become part of popular culture - especially if it relies on people other than film directors to spot the references.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 23 2015, @03:45PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 23 2015, @03:45PM (#137269)

        For example, any movie in which a character says "I don't think we're in Kansas any more" or any other WOz quote would count.

        So you think there's no way anyone would come up with "I don't think we're in Kansas any more" by himself?

        Also, how do you distinguish references to the movie from references to the story? I mean, the Wizard of Oz story is quite a bit older than the movie.

        I'd not be surprised if with your method, you'd find a lot of "references" to the movie in movies that were made before it.

        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday January 23 2015, @07:07PM

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday January 23 2015, @07:07PM (#137382) Journal
          Because the book would have been famous and commonly quoted today in the absence of the movie, right? That explains how all the other Frank Baum books in the Oz series are heavily quoted as well?
          • (Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Friday January 23 2015, @10:29PM

            by maxwell demon (1608) on Friday January 23 2015, @10:29PM (#137454) Journal

            To be honest, until this article I didn't even know that the film exists. I knew about the book, though.

            --
            The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
      • (Score: 1) by Nuke on Friday January 23 2015, @11:03PM

        by Nuke (3162) on Friday January 23 2015, @11:03PM (#137462)

        There are certainly a lot of "references" in your link. I admit that they have all whooshed over my head, even though I did see WOz when I was about 7 yo. I had thought "not in Kansas anymore" was a WW2 US army joke for example.

        However, why are they references to the film rather than the book? The British equivalent to WOZ is "Alice in Wonderland". There have been many films and other productions of it, and it is very widely quoted, but no-one would describe them as " references" to a film; the book itself is paramount.

        • (Score: 2) by naubol on Friday January 23 2015, @11:53PM

          by naubol (1918) on Friday January 23 2015, @11:53PM (#137481)

          Alice in Wonderland, the book, is insanely popular in the states, too. And, the references to it are profuse in films. I agree, even in the states, the references to AiW are to the book. But, I'm pretty sure I'm one of the few Americans who knows about Baum and one of the even fewer Americans who has read the books.

          Why do I know that the WoZ movie is being referenced? I don't know, sense of the zeitgeist or whatever. In the same way you know people are referring to the book in Britain.

          • (Score: 2) by Adamsjas on Saturday January 24 2015, @02:25AM

            by Adamsjas (4507) on Saturday January 24 2015, @02:25AM (#137520)

            I believe you've hit the nail on the head.

            Alice in Wonderland, and some other books like just about any of the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy series, were insanely popular before a move came out. And the movies never did them justice.

            Every kid read Alice, (or had it read to them as a child). I've seen many of the Alice movies, and the stage plays, and they just don't have anywhere near appeal of the book. Even the special effects just mess it up.
            The world first encountered Alice in books.

            On the other hand Baum just wasn't that well read, and the Wizard movie was a tour de force in its day, a technical achievement with just the right actors, even if it almost killed a few of them in the process.
            Everyone first encountered the story in film.

            It will be interesting to see how the Harry Potter series will be recalled.
            Most parents of young-ish kids read the books first.
            Most of those kids saw the movie first.

    • (Score: 2) by Thexalon on Friday January 23 2015, @03:44PM

      by Thexalon (636) on Friday January 23 2015, @03:44PM (#137268)

      A reference would probably consist of either a quote ("We're not in Kansas any more", "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain", etc) or a visual (a guy looking through a tiny hole in a door, flying monkeys, etc).

      And "Plan 9 from Outer Space" is influential, because it's almost as perfectly bad as "Manos: the Hands of Fate". Influential doesn't mean good, as anyone even vaguely familiar with history can tell you.

      --
      The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
    • (Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Friday January 23 2015, @11:06PM

      by MichaelDavidCrawford (2339) Subscriber Badge <mdcrawford@gmail.com> on Friday January 23 2015, @11:06PM (#137464) Homepage Journal

      One of my former girlfriends took a film class at UC Santa Cruz. Movies are full of all manner of stereotyped symbolism that are totally lost on the typical moviegoer. For example, for the camera to focus on a spinning fan is meant to imply that "The shit is about to hit the fan".

      I'm not dead certain but have some reason to believe that the movie "Romy and Michelle's High School Reunion" may have been based on my own ten year high school reunion, with the dot-com guy with the weird shoes who arrives in a helicopter having been based on what my classmates perceived of me when I showed up.

      That's also because one of my classmates is a woman by the name of Romy, whose father is wealthy enough to have financed the entire movie.

      I don't really know but do speculate that to be the case.

      I have another friend who is heavily into film. Between my ex and my friend, as well as my ex-wife's studies of art history, I myself am able to see these kinds of references in most films that I see.

      --
      Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 23 2015, @03:05PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 23 2015, @03:05PM (#137254)

    Will evaluate which types of porn are the most 'significant'. This promises to be the most important study ever done.

    For the record, my vote goes to Furry Midget porn.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 23 2015, @05:15PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 23 2015, @05:15PM (#137321)

    I need academic papers to tell me if a movie is significant. I hope they spared no expense in research funds to figure this out. Now the limp wristed academics can congratulate each other at a banquet on how exceptional they are at identifying other people's exceptional work. They can even give each other awards for being the best at identifying exceptional work they didn't produce. "The golden turtle neck and stupid glasses award goes to............This fuck---> 8-] for wasting the most of University's research money on watching movies and looking up stuff about them"

    • (Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Friday January 23 2015, @06:46PM

      by MichaelDavidCrawford (2339) Subscriber Badge <mdcrawford@gmail.com> on Friday January 23 2015, @06:46PM (#137369) Homepage Journal

      Like dinner plates. The kind you eat off of.

      Toss one up in the air with a little spin, kind of like you're practicing solo frisbee. Dr. Feynman beat the subject completely to death.

      This after he considered looking into the shape of the stream of water from a faucet, only to find that it was already a solved problem.

      This is what scientists do. It's not all about proving that the earth really does go around the sun.

      --
      Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 23 2015, @10:20PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 23 2015, @10:20PM (#137450)

      At a minimum, it's clear that he never built something complicated enough to require building A MODEL of the thing using readily-available materials before building the real deal.

      -- gewg_

    • (Score: 2) by naubol on Friday January 23 2015, @11:57PM

      by naubol (1918) on Friday January 23 2015, @11:57PM (#137482)

      You must be new here.

      The only people who should be derided for making money for doing nothing are the people whose primary source of income is capital gains.

  • (Score: 2) by Dale on Friday January 23 2015, @05:24PM

    by Dale (539) Subscriber Badge on Friday January 23 2015, @05:24PM (#137326)

    Wouldn't this just be a popularity contest versus testing for real significance? I would be much more worried about this as it relates to research publications. If a bad science article gets popular it could rank high even though the underlying science can be awful.

  • (Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Friday January 23 2015, @06:29PM

    by MichaelDavidCrawford (2339) Subscriber Badge <mdcrawford@gmail.com> on Friday January 23 2015, @06:29PM (#137362) Homepage Journal

    how many labor in obscurity, even desperate poverty - as did Vincent Van Gogh - only far later to be regarded as profoundly significant?

    Wikipedia claims that Tsutomu Shimomura, the fellow who busted Kevin Mitnick, is a "Computer Security Researcher". Claiming that Tsutomu is into security is like claiming that I myself am a five-star chef because, at times, I am able to fry my eggs Over Easy without breaking the yolks.

    Tsutomu is a nuclear weapons designer. That's why you won't find many of his papers in University libraries.

    He dropped out of Caltech at the same time I did, I because I went insane, Tsutomu because all the weapons labs started hurling job offers at him. To the best of my knowledge, he never even graduated high school.

    --
    Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
  • (Score: 1) by srobert on Saturday January 24 2015, @03:28AM

    by srobert (4803) on Saturday January 24 2015, @03:28AM (#137528)

    We live in a world where people get paid to do professional reports about how frequently a movie is referenced in some other work of art, literature, media. How strange. What a world. We're not in Kansas anymore. I just can't fathom it. If I only had a brain.