from the but-your-homework-is-still-due-on-time dept.
The Orange County Register reports
Two dozen unvaccinated students [including the one who had measles] have been sent home from Huntington Beach High School for three weeks in the latest effort to slow the measles outbreak spreading throughout Orange County.
An unspecified student with measles was on campus from Jan. 6 to Jan. 8, possibly spreading the extremely contagious disease, according to a letter to parents from Matt Zahn, medical director for epidemiology at the Orange County Health Care Agency.
[...]State law requires schoolchildren to get the MMR shots to protect against measles, mumps, and rubella, but parents who believe there are links between the vaccines and medical conditions such as autism can get an exemption by signing a personal belief waiver.
On Jan. 14, Zahn issued a letter to Huntington Beach High School parents warning that "measles spreads very easily by air and by direct contact. Simply being in the same room with someone who has measles is sufficient to become infected." [...] "One in every 20 people with measles develops pneumonia; more rarely, serious, even life-threatening complications can occur."
Any ideas on how this could be made into a disincentive rather than a 3-week vacation?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 25 2015, @04:41AM
Any ideas on how this could be made into a disincentive rather than a 3-week vacation?
Sure, they get Fs on any homework, quizzes, or tests that come up.
(Score: 1) by Ethanol-fueled on Sunday January 25 2015, @08:10AM
Well, what is conspicuously absent from the article, and rightly so, are the names and legal residential status of the offenders. Upon a first impression you'd think that the offenders are Smiths and Robertsons who are racist White trash. But how many are Martinez, Rodriguez, Petrovic, Bhatti, etc. ?
Orange county is where all the educated and unvaccinated H1-B abusers come home to roost. So before you all blame Whitey, know the whole story. Gewg is a Berkeley liberal with White Guilt.
(Score: 1) by Clev on Sunday January 25 2015, @09:05PM
(Score: 2) by GreatAuntAnesthesia on Monday January 26 2015, @09:39AM
Gewg made no mention of race or immigrant status. You were the one to bring that up, so stop being all butthurt and oppressed.
Sometimes you do make insightful comments E-F, but other times you are completely full of shit. This appears to be one of the latter.
(Score: 1) by mgcarley on Monday January 26 2015, @05:03PM
People who travel *usually* get more vaccinations, not fewer. There was a point in my life where I had to carry a little card from the WHO to keep track of what I had and hadn't had (and when) otherwise - get this - I wouldn't even be allowed to enter some countries, let alone immigrate to them.
To even get a visa to many countries (including the US), you need to show evidence that you have been vaccinated against various things, so "H1-B abusers" and the like are *probably* the least of your worries considering it's a group that *probably* doesn't exist.
I came to America after living in India (I'm not from India or on an H1-B visa, though) and a couple of years ago I accidentally cut myself on a fence while still in Mumbai and some people at the site wouldn't even let me go home without first taking me to a nearby hospital for a tetanus shot (which was given to me free of charge as it happened to be a government hospital).
Founder & COO, Hayai. We're in India (hayai.in) & the USA (hayaibroadband.com) // Twitter: @mgcarley
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 25 2015, @04:48AM
> Any ideas on how this could be made into a disincentive rather than a 3-week vacation?
The kids don't decide whether or not to get vaccinated, the parents do.
Similarly, a 3 week "vacation" means 3 weeks of babysitting that the parents are now on the hook for.
That's a lot of money and/or time.
(Score: 1) by Lunix Nutcase on Sunday January 25 2015, @05:23AM
Babysitter for a high school student?
(Score: 2) by bzipitidoo on Sunday January 25 2015, @05:28AM
You picked babysitting costs as the big disincentive?! Suffering through a rough disease and risking death ought to be a much bigger disincentive. Measles kills about 0.3% of its victims, not a real high rate, but why even take that much of a chance?
(Score: 3, Informative) by gnuman on Sunday January 25 2015, @05:59AM
Measles kills about 0.3% of its victims, not a real high rate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measles [wikipedia.org]
The virus is highly contagious—90% of people without immunity sharing living space with an infected person will catch it.
...
Symptoms usually develop 7–14 days (average 10–12) after exposure to an infected person and the initial symptoms usually include a high fever (often > 40 °C [104 °F]), Koplik's spots (spots in the mouth, these usually appear 1–2 days prior to the rash and last 3–5 days), malaise, loss of appetite, hacking cough (although this may be the last symptom to appear), runny nose and red eyes. After this comes a spot-like rash that covers much of the body. The course of measles, provided there are no complications, such as bacterial infections, usually lasts about 7–10 days.
...
Complications with measles are relatively common, ranging from mild complications such as diarrhea to serious complications such as pneumonia (either direct viral pneumonia or secondary bacterial pneumonia), otitis media, acute brain inflammation (and very rarely SSPE—subacute sclerosing panencephalitis), and corneal ulceration (leading to corneal scarring). Complications are usually more severe in adults who catch the virus. The death rate in the 1920s was around 30% for measles pneumonia.
Between 1987 and 2000, the case fatality rate across the United States was three measles-attributable deaths per 1000 cases, or 0.3%. In underdeveloped nations with high rates of malnutrition and poor healthcare, fatality rates have been as high as 28%. In immunocompromised persons (e.g., people with AIDS) the fatality rate is approximately 30%.
So, right. Just because recently "only" 3 per 1000 cases were fatal, does not mean the rest recovered 100%. And SSPE is when the virus enters the brain the causes persistent infection that typically results in death. And if not dead, well, brain damage.
This is a disease that was on verge of being eradicated only to come back because of idiots that do not want kids to be vaccinated. Vaccines only work as herd immunity - once insufficient people are vaccinated, then the effect on disease transmission from vaccines quickly dwindles to nil.
I'll just leave this for the morons that think vaccines (like measles vaccine) don't work. At "only" 0.3% death rate (with no complications), that's almost 2000 deaths per year avoided thanks to vaccine. And historical death rates are significantly higher.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measles#mediaviewer/File:Measles_US_1944-2007_inset.png [wikipedia.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 25 2015, @08:26AM
on verge of being eradicated only to come back because of idiots
I suggested the dept. line
that-damned-Andrew-Wakefield dept.
Greedy bastard.
At least they revoked his license to practice medicine.
For the damage he's done, he belongs in prison IMO.
...then there are mental midgets that they allow on TeeVee who are still repeating his nonsense.
-- gewg_
(Score: 2) by wantkitteh on Sunday January 25 2015, @01:30PM
On behalf of the United Kingdom, I would like to apologise to all of humanity for Andrew Wakefield. I hereby pledge that, upon sighting this cretinous retard, I shall immediately fart on his balls.
(Score: 2) by GreatAuntAnesthesia on Monday January 26 2015, @09:42AM
Or, too use his full name and title: "Not-a-Doctor Andrew Babykiller Wakefield."
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 25 2015, @08:36AM
> Suffering through a rough disease and risking death ought to be a much bigger disincentive.
Perhaps you missed the fact that the kids aren't actually infected. If you aren't infected, there is no disincentive. That's why they weren't vaccinated in the first place.
Maybe the air is too thin up there on that horse?
(Score: 4, Insightful) by keplr on Sunday January 25 2015, @08:28AM
Take the financial responsibility of educating your Typhoid Mary/Mikey at home where they can't (easily) infect other children; or get your kids vaccinated, which is free; or surrender them to the State, which is free. One choice you DON'T have is to send them to public school unvaccinated where they put others at risk. The choice is yours!
I don't respond to ACs.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 25 2015, @02:39PM
B-but, fucking over other people because of my ignorance, stupidity, or arrogance is the American way!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 25 2015, @03:29PM
Came here to make this exact response. If my kid were sent home from school for 2 weeks, with no advanced notice, I'd be scrambling.
(Score: 1) by SecurityGuy on Monday January 26 2015, @05:03PM
These are high school students. They generally don't need babysitters. In fact, sometimes they are babysitters.
(Score: 2) by sjames on Sunday January 25 2015, @04:56AM
Having to make arrangements for an unscheduled 3 week school vacation and being subject to the same happening again is a good disincentive to the parents. The kids need no disincentive since it's not up to them if they get vaccinated or not until they are legal adults.
(Score: 0) by t-3 on Sunday January 25 2015, @05:13AM
It's a high school, and if the kids can't take care of themselves or be taken care of in those cases that require it, there's a problem.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Ethanol-fueled on Sunday January 25 2015, @08:04AM
Exactly. I had both the Measles and the Chicken Pox, and the flu every fucking Christmas for many childhood years and a shitload of things plenty of times. Sane folk interpret those things as shit that just happens in life and builds up profound immunity while training the immune system at the expense of temporary ugliness. Insane people, aka new parents, flail their arms and cry bloody murder at the notion of getting sick.
Fucking pussies. Put down the hand-sanitizer and the government-subsidized and mostly ineffective vaccines and build up your fucking immune system. Play in the fucking mud. Ignore the media's fearmongering bullshit. Jesus Christ, fucking chickenshit weaklings all around. Your body isn't a temple, it's a roller-coaster -- enjoy the ride.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 25 2015, @09:16AM
When I get the flu, I get bedridden for days, because I have asthma. I tend to pick up the flu from assholes such as yourself who thinking toughing it out and getting on with work proves how manly they are.
All it proves is how little a fuck you give about others.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 25 2015, @01:08PM
ehm ... the guys that either got vaccinated or got sick and survived (immune) will not give you the flu and stuff.
they're probably rather safe to be around.
unless of course medicine tells us that they're walking bacteria heeps which doesn't make sense.
the really contagious people are sick, thus bacteria and stuff are multiplying like hell?
if you all got sick then i wouldn't have to : )
(Score: 1) by mgcarley on Monday January 26 2015, @05:10PM
Or you could take the middle path: put down the hand sanitizer etc and let your immune system do what it's designed to, BUT if/when you develop symptoms of a disease (whether pox or flu or whatever), go the fuck home so you can cough and wheeze and sneeze without annoying everyone else.
Founder & COO, Hayai. We're in India (hayai.in) & the USA (hayaibroadband.com) // Twitter: @mgcarley
(Score: 3, Funny) by DeathMonkey on Monday January 26 2015, @04:43PM
I had both the Measles and the Chicken Pox, and the flu every fucking Christmas.
Since your immune system is clearly malfunctioning you should want the people around you to be vaccinated.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 25 2015, @05:57AM
I have a question about this. It appears from the summary that what is making (some) parents hesitant about getting their kids vaccinated is the possibility of autism. I'm no expert on autism as a disease but I was under the impression that most cases start showing symptoms early in childhood (i.e., well before their sixth birthday). Certainly well before the kids get to high school. Do I have that correct, or am I mistaken? If I'm correct about this, wouldn't this make the concerns about autism moot? Or do the parents have other concerns about the MMR vaccine for their high school aged children? Does anybody know the answer to this question?
(Score: 4, Informative) by Magic Oddball on Sunday January 25 2015, @06:24AM
People that believe vaccines somehow cause autism refuse to believe that it's actually a developmental condition — most of them insist that it's brain damage similar to that caused by mercury poisoning. It used to be that they'd claim that the clear autistic traits showed up in late toddlerhood was because it's when the little kids were first vaccinated; now that the vaccination schedule begins far earlier and involves far more shots, they've shifted the goalposts to being a matter of 'cumulative effect' or something like that.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 25 2015, @07:25AM
But how can they credibly make that claim when no cases exist in which autism symptoms began after a few years of age? Surely someone must have pointed this out to them! I realize that anti-vaxxers don't make their decisions based on the evidence, but it seems like autism development in high school would stretch the limits of just about anyone's credulity.
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Sunday January 25 2015, @07:40PM
What does credibly have to do with it? It hasn't been credible since the original "study" was retracted.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 1) by number6x on Monday January 26 2015, @04:04PM
Measles can cause ear infections, pneumonia, seizures (jerking and staring), brain damage, and death. [nih.gov]. Death is rare, but it is known to happen. And it is an actual link to the disease measles, in contrast to the 'MMR vaccine causes autism' lie that is false and was made up by Andrew Wakefield and some solicitors in England in their phony lawsuit scheme so they could make millions in settlements.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Sunday January 25 2015, @09:48AM
Some people suspect a particularly vaccine or type of vaccine of one or more specific or nonspecific side effects, others object to the violation of bodily integrity in the vaccination process itself. Sometimes the reasoning is clearly religious, other times not.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 25 2015, @01:22PM
And all of the reasoning is selfish and stupid and not based in reality.
(Score: 2) by GreatAuntAnesthesia on Monday January 26 2015, @09:47AM
> others object to the sapping and impurification of precious bodily fluids in the vaccination process itself.
FTFY.
(Score: 1) by Entropy on Sunday January 25 2015, @04:35PM
The issue (obviously) isn't with all vaccines. Lets take a easy example: The mythical flu vaccine. Here are a few facts:
1. It contains mercury. Do you want your child(or yourself) injected with mercury? They helpfully rename mercury "Thimerosal" for your protection.
2. Right on the flu vaccine label it shows it has not been proven effective in controlled clinical trials.
3. The CDC stopped giving out important numbers that would show how ineffective the vaccines are...right around when flu vaccine marketing became a huge cash cow.
In short.. I think the flu vaccine is a bunch of crap. Old people producing something they want to be universally required to line their pockets with cash. Since the flu vaccine argument has been failing pretty hardcore lately now they are trying to intertwine it with MMR vaccine/measles vaccine/other vaccines. I actually believe the MMR/measles vaccine has merit. I believe some other vaccines have merit.
So don't mistake anti-vaccine beliefs with encompassing all vaccines at all times. Not believing one should get a shot once a year that basically does nothing for the flu is far different from inoculation against smallpox, measles, or many other diseases. Remember when nurses refused mandatory flu vaccines on a wide basis? Those are medical professionals.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 25 2015, @06:34AM
Any ideas on how this could be made into a disincentive rather than a 3-week vacation?
Sure, expel the students as they are a danger to all of the other students they come into contact with. Let them back into school when they have been vaccinated so that they are no longer a danger.
Or, let the parents find a private school on their own that will accept their intentionally infection proliferating offspring.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 25 2015, @09:23AM
...and then go cough on all the doorhandles when you get sick.
(Score: 2) by wonkey_monkey on Sunday January 25 2015, @09:41AM
Unvaccinated Students Dismissed from California High School after Measles Exposure
Being sent home for three weeks is not being "dismissed." That has a much more permanent meaning.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk
(Score: 2) by darkfeline on Sunday January 25 2015, @07:37PM
dis•miss (dĭs-mĭsˈ)►
v. To end the employment or service of; discharge.
v. To direct or allow to leave: dismissed troops after the inspection; dismissed the student after reprimanding him.
Isn't language grand?
Join the SDF Public Access UNIX System today!
(Score: 2) by tonyPick on Sunday January 25 2015, @10:09AM
Any ideas on how this could be made into a disincentive rather than a 3-week vacation?
Well, given they've been exposed, unprotected, to a highly contagious viral infection where:
"One in every 20 people with measles develops pneumonia; more rarely, serious, even life-threatening complications can occur."
Call me a hypochondriac, but that should be a pretty damn big disincentive sitting right there
(Score: 2) by marcello_dl on Monday January 26 2015, @09:29AM
I always suggest to go to your school, ask for historical data before the vaccine and see how much people got ill from flu measles and the like, before vaccines were widespread, then see what happened recently, after vaccinations were established. Then compare that partial data with the big studies.
(Score: 2) by FakeBeldin on Sunday January 25 2015, @11:28AM
Any ideas on how this could be made into a disincentive rather than a 3-week vacation?
Yes: none.
Basically: you cannot punish people into accepting autism for their children.
Seriously, think about it. Suppose you have children, and you are convinced that if you do A, they will become autistic. You're horribly wrong about it, but hey, you are convinced anyway. So you don't do A, unless the alternative is clearly worse than making your child autistic. Alternatives probably include "child dies" and "child suffers amputation", but not much more I can think of.
What's needed is not a negative reason to not do A (i.e. not have a vaccination), but to address the perceived negative reasons to do A (that is, risking autism).
Getting the parents to stop taking medical advice from playboy bunnies would be more effective.
(Score: 2) by Immerman on Sunday January 25 2015, @03:18PM
If you can figure out how to convince people to stop taking scientific advice from models, actors, TV personalities, etc. who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground you'll have solved a lot more problems than just the anti-vaxxer memetic infection.
It seems to me a practical starting point on vaccines would be to get them vaccinating their children later in life. Okay, so you're afraid that vaccines will increase the chance that your child becomes autistic. Fine, nothing I say is likely to change that. But by the time they're in middle school or high-school their brain development is past the "danger zone" where they might develop autism. So get them vaccinated then - measles, etc. aren't as dangerous to a near-adult as to a young child, but they can still be pretty nasty. And you'll be doing your part to protect all the other babies whose parents were afraid to have vaccinated. After all this is war, we all have to do our part to keep these diseases from sweeping though the population on a regular basis
Once you have your foot in the door you can then it becomes easier to improve the situation - you were going to get them vaccinated at 12? Well, maybe 11 isn't so bad. Especially if we ban non-vaccinated children from public schools without a valid *medical* reason. Or at least make parents watch an extended "this is your child on measles, mumps, etc, etc, etc." public service video every year before they are allowed to sign the personal belief waiver. These diseases can be *nasty*, make sure parents understand just what sort of permanent damage can be done to their child even if they survive it. And impose a real, if small, price on the parents - either get your child vaccinated this year, or once again spend 3 hours watching children suffer horribly.
(Score: 2) by Kromagv0 on Monday January 26 2015, @03:21PM
Since most of these people are unable to properly access risk why not make it provide a financial disincentive so that if there is an outbreak at a school they are responsible for a portion of the associated costs. So if there is an outbreak in a school and:
There are 40 children who's parents didn't get them vaccinated because they thought it might give their precious snowflake autism
30 of whom catch it
Another 12 who were vaccinated but it didn't work catch it and parents have to take time off of work
2 of those vaccinated but it didn't work end up in the hospital for a couple of weeks
In this case the parents of the 40 children now get to cover all of the expenses, medical and work, of the 12 who were vaccinated but it didn't work. The 30 who weren't vaccinated already have to eat that cost out of their own pocket so I am not concerned with that. I'm all for freedom of choice but your choices have consequences. I would also carve out an exception for those who have a real medical reason for not getting vaccinated since those are the people who are dependent on everyone else getting vaccinated. Additionally I'm sure that to cover this an insurance product would be provided and they would likely be able to just pay a monthly premium.
While not a perfect solution it seem the best I can come up with in our current system and is better than what we have now which is that there isn't any real consequences for the unvaccinated beyond just having a higher chance of getting sick. Granted someone might be able to sue now days and have similar results but good luck gaining access to the vaccination records.
T-Shirts and bumper stickers [zazzle.com] to offend someone
(Score: 1) by SecurityGuy on Monday January 26 2015, @05:06PM
Related: a lot of us probably have idiot friends who post things on social media that are anti-vax or otherwise BS. Don't just let it slide. Say something. I truly believe some people don't have any active voices of reason in their social circle, they just self-reinforce this nonsense.
(Score: 1) by mgcarley on Monday January 26 2015, @05:33PM
One way I can think of... stop allowing all these "personal belief waiver" things for everything. I'm all for dissent and standing up for ones rights but "personal belief waivers" for things like (in this case) vaccinations are bullshit. My mother was a nurse and she made damn sure we were all vaccinated up the wazoo.
Kid not vaccinated? Kid doesn't get admitted to school.
No home-schooling certificate and kid is truant? You're probably a shitty parent and there should probably be some consequences.
Hell, I bet even a 6-year old could understand the tradeoff of either hurting for a minute or suffering for a week (or even indefinitely if the disease wreaks enough havoc).
Founder & COO, Hayai. We're in India (hayai.in) & the USA (hayaibroadband.com) // Twitter: @mgcarley