Valve has announced that they will be allowing content creators to charge for workshop mods:
The Steam Workshop has always been a great place for sharing mods, maps, and all kinds of items that you’ve created. Now it's also a great place for selling those creations. With a new, streamlined process for listing and selling your creations, the Steam Workshop now supports buying mods directly from the Workshop, to be immediately usable in game. Discover the best new mods for your game and enable the creators to continue making new items and experiences.
While this seems a great way to incentivize the creation of more and better mods, of course not all gamers are happy about it. [venturebeat.com - Warning: lots of javascript]
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We previously covered Valve offering paid mods in the Steam Workshop. Now, Valve (and Bethesda) have realized that the way they were attempting to implement payment for modders (and themselves) could not stand alongside the current model, at least with the goodwill of the community.
From the article:
We've done this because it's clear we didn't understand exactly what we were doing. We've been shipping many features over the years aimed at allowing community creators to receive a share of the rewards, and in the past, they've been received well. It's obvious now that this case is different.
We understand our own game's communities pretty well, but stepping into an established, years old modding community in Skyrim was probably not the right place to start iterating. We think this made us miss the mark pretty badly, even though we believe there's a useful feature somewhere here.
Hopefully they do get a fully-baked donation system implemented (or some other method that makes sense).
(Score: 3, Disagree) by ikanreed on Friday April 24 2015, @09:52PM
And some people are totally abusing the system, uploading stolen mods and profiting off the work of others.
But: as people get used to the fact that no one is going to pay for stupid mods, I firmly believe this has the potential to let people sell some neat creations.
Free will continue to be possible, and paid versions of the same thing can't compete.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Mr Big in the Pants on Friday April 24 2015, @10:11PM
This is not what I have seen elsewhere. Things change drastically once the scent of money is in the water - and often not for the better:
- Modders move from being incentivised based purely on passion to the other thing.
- Contributors are now "the paid" and "the unpaid". Expect the latter to dry up quickly and lots of arguments over the difference.
- Many free resources that modders have used in the past are no longer available when it is a commercial product.
- Game makers will want their cut since, let's face it, these modders will be making cash based mostly on their hard work.
- Legal issues aplenty that are now worth someone's time following up...
On the plus side a FEW modders could make this a viable, professional alternative (assuming the game companies don't squash it outright) to building games from scratch - in the best case scenario providing enough cash to make it worthwhile or even live on.
But if I was betting on this I would say the overall is not going to be that great long term.
(Score: 4, Informative) by K_benzoate on Friday April 24 2015, @10:33PM
And let's remember that Valve takes a 75% cut.
This is the most anti-consumer decision they've ever made.
Climate change is real and primarily caused by human activity.
(Score: 2) by Mr Big in the Pants on Friday April 24 2015, @11:44PM
I did not see that part...you are not serious??
In the past they have taken a 30% cut...
Are you sure you don't have it back to front?
If they ARE taking that it is surely because half of it goes to them, half to the game companies....
(Score: 2, Informative) by Pseudonymous Coward on Saturday April 25 2015, @05:37AM
I'm sure, see here: https://i.imgur.com/BJP4c33.png [imgur.com]
Here for a discussion on reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/33mpuv/valve_takes_75_of_the_sales_that_are_made_from/ [reddit.com]
(Score: 2) by Magic Oddball on Saturday April 25 2015, @09:55AM
It matches what I read over at Ars Technica:
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/04/23/steam-workshop-lets-users-sell-mods-but-only-shares-25-percent-of-revenue/ [arstechnica.com]
It gets worse, though...from the Ars article:
"Money-making modders will have to wait until they've earned at least $100 of sales before receiving a payment"
(Score: 2) by Mr Big in the Pants on Saturday April 25 2015, @07:02PM
So in other words this is less about the fostering a healthy modding community and more about monetising something that was free to increase revenue.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 25 2015, @08:24PM
Yes. Even more odd considering people within valve have stated that they do not do things for money as steam is so profitable and valve has so few employees they can do whatever they want. It has been used by Newell as justification for why they have refused to be bought out for absurd amounts of money. Maybe making money itself has just become a game to them, like what Ted Turner does: "Life is a game. Money is how we keep score." Too bad he started with cheat codes enabled.
(Score: 2) by Mr Big in the Pants on Sunday April 26 2015, @02:27AM
Well then I predict this has the halflife highly radioactive substance.
See what I did there?
(Score: 2) by mtrycz on Saturday April 25 2015, @09:56AM
Nitpicking, but Valve isn't taking 75% cut: that figure is split between Valve and the original game maker/distributor.
The modders still get the 25% tho, and *ONLY* if they raise at least 100$ (or 400$? didn't get that part)
At first I thought that this is a good thing, like the next step after the indie developer era. More high quality content around. Valve democratizing the market further.
But the execution is hideous. The terms of the deal just straightout *engourage* bad behaviour. Game developers will create even shittier games, don't care since they get a cut from the mods that fix it. Modders, who have always been a great community, will become just like the next market; paid mods building upon free mods (already happening).
Until you see the thing that will make you just loose it.
Early access mods.
I'm out.
In capitalist America, ads view YOU!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 25 2015, @09:49AM
I disagree. An analogy would be that Intel and AMD want to get paid for you using OSS on the system that you paid for because it runs on the system they built.
Or the car analogy: Automakers don't have to give 75% of revenue to road construction crews, so why do modders have to pay game publishers the same?
(Score: 2) by Mr Big in the Pants on Saturday April 25 2015, @07:06PM
That analogy is so weak it just collapsed under its own weight. I am not going to discuss it.
You do realise that finding any ol' analogy that vaguely fits is not proof of anything, right?
Analogies are supposed to make EXPLAINING something complex easier - not become the laughable pretence of proof.
Its like a car that you buy because it looks like it would go real fast and then you find during the first rain shower its made of cardboard.
Cardboard, meet rain..
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by Hairyfeet on Saturday April 25 2015, @01:46PM
Exactly. Look at Greenlight which Valve said would help get good indie games on Steam, reality? For every 1 decent you now have 100 "attack of the cheap Unity art assets" pieces of trash shat out quickly clogging up the pipe. And its not like modders don't ALREADY have ways they can make money, they can accept donations AND there is always the option of turning your mod into a full game and selling it, see Killing Floor or Red Orchestra for just 2 examples.
No what this will do is crapflood every moddable game with broken, cobbled together trash that will be more likely to crash the game than work and within 90 days there won't be a single mod for anything that doesn't have a $ next to it so you will quickly learn not to even look at the mods because like Greenlight it'll be filled with shitty cash ins by devs that don't have anything but a quick buck in mind. Its a shame as modders used to be able to create real value for their favorite games and keep them alive well past their "sell by" date but this will kill modding quicker than banning it....I have to wonder, is that the point? After all if you are playing mods you aren't as likely to buy new games, if so its brilliant from a marketing perspective. Just let the modding community destroy itself with greed under the guise of "helping" it.
ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
(Score: 2) by vux984 on Saturday April 25 2015, @12:25AM
Yeah, this should have pretty much been put through their whole green-light system or something; so if a dev wants to make his mod paid, he submits it as a new game title ("fan made DLC") and its goes through review and approval for publishing (for some threshold of quality, functionality, and lack of copyright infringement or outright plagiarism or piracy of a free mod); and the steamworkshop community modding is a separate and free thing. Otherwise the whole thing is just going to be flooded with shit and shovelware, and rip-offs.
The idea of paid "fan DLC" itself isn't necessarily a bad idea, total-conversions of games etc are pretty cool, and some mods are a lot of work, but most are just some little tweak or model or level adjustment etc... co-mixxing paid mods with the free community is taking a big dump in the pool.
(Score: 1) by nitehawk214 on Saturday April 25 2015, @05:54AM
Wait, I don't quite understand your comment. Are you saying that people getting annoyed over stolen comment is "no reason"?
It isn't the thieves profiting that really makes me mad, even. They were going to steal content and try to profit off of it one way or another. It is the fact that Valve is allowing this to happen because they are the ones making the most profit. Though between Greenlight that has games that obviosly were intended to suck money out of people and never be finished and Steam Sales that screw over developers... I suppose nobody should be surprised.
"Don't you ever miss the days when you used to be nostalgic?" -Loiosh
(Score: 2) by Anal Pumpernickel on Sunday April 26 2015, @04:29AM
What thieves? What stealing?
(Score: 1) by nitehawk214 on Sunday April 26 2015, @03:21PM
Someone makes a mod for free. Someone else uploads that mod to steam for pay.
This is theft.
"Don't you ever miss the days when you used to be nostalgic?" -Loiosh
(Score: 2) by Anal Pumpernickel on Sunday April 26 2015, @04:11PM
The original is gone?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 24 2015, @10:06PM
I'm guessing this isn't real money, but rather steam bucks, which means more money for Valve.
Fuck steam, fuck valve, and fuck gay-ben.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 24 2015, @10:16PM
What's a "gay-ben"?
(Score: 2, Disagree) by tibman on Friday April 24 2015, @10:29PM
fuck gay-ben is modern slang for being jealous of a successful person.
SN won't survive on lurkers alone. Write comments.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 25 2015, @12:26AM
Your up to date "leet" lingo proves you know what your are talking about.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 25 2015, @02:33AM
What's a ""leet""?
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 25 2015, @05:05AM
Yes, because all criticisms of [Insert Scam Artist/Slimy Rich Person Here] are just signs of jealousy. I bet those people protesting Too Big To Fail were just jealous of those successful bankers, too. No one can ever have any legitimate criticisms if someone is rich, because being rich means you're completely immune to criticism.
(Score: 2) by tibman on Sunday April 26 2015, @01:53AM
Well, at least we know for you money === success.
SN won't survive on lurkers alone. Write comments.
(Score: 1) by nitehawk214 on Saturday April 25 2015, @05:56AM
Last name: Dover
"Don't you ever miss the days when you used to be nostalgic?" -Loiosh
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 26 2015, @08:40AM
"Guessing" that someone you have an irrational dislike for will do something you don't like... bitter about something, loser?
(Score: 2) by frojack on Friday April 24 2015, @10:15PM
Apparently there were problems, everything was taken offline, then fixed.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2015/04/24/apparently-all-paid-steam-workshop-skyrim-mods-have-been-pulled/ [forbes.com]
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 1, Disagree) by dingus on Saturday April 25 2015, @03:58AM
I don't know why people are so upset about this. It's just steam letting modders -- some of which have sunk countless hours into their projects and even hired voice actors -- charge for their mods. There's very little difference between that and letting people charge for a small game. And yet people see it as some kind of money-grubbing scheme from steam.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 25 2015, @09:57AM
Once upon a time people made music because they enjoyed it or a patron paid them to make it. Look at what it became and see the future of mods.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 25 2015, @11:09AM
I don't know why people are so upset about this. It's just steam letting modders...charge for their mods
This is not what people are disagreeing with.
And yet people see it as some kind of money-grubbing scheme from steam.
Suuuure, and scientologists are just informing people about their religion. A non-objectionable idea done wrongly can lead to an objectionable practice. Your reddit-grade rhetoric isn't going to fly here.
(Score: 2) by mth on Saturday April 25 2015, @11:30AM
I agree there is nothing wrong with it in theory. However, since Steam pays the modders only 25% of revenue, it doesn't look like compensating the modders was the main goal here. And seeing the garbage that makes it into Steam early access (watch some of Jim Sterling's videos [youtube.com] if you're not aware of this problem; he doesn't highlight bad games exclusively but there are plenty of examples there), it is clear that Valve doesn't do much (or anything?) in terms of quality control. So in practice, I don't think this is a good thing.
(Score: 1) by dingus on Sunday April 26 2015, @11:29PM
Valve isn't responsible for making sure game publishers only make good games. That's the consumers' job.
I didn't know modders only made 25% of the profits. Gonna have to agree that it needs to be redone.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 25 2015, @09:55AM
Someone with a more evil slant could make a mod that makes it easier for other modders to do their work. Something along the lines of SKSE (a script extender). Publish it for free, make it easy for other people to adopt. Then after a time start charging real money for it. Suddenly everyone will have to pony up for any dependent mods to work and game saves that depended on that content will be corrupt without it.
Valve has made a system that can hold a gamer's 100-hour Skyrim save hostage without introducing malware or even breaking the law. Brilliant!