The Epoch Times reports
The family of [13-year-old Columbus, Georgia] student Montravious Thomas claim that behavioral specialist, Bryant Mosley, physically attacked the young student on his first day at AIM/Edgewood Student Services Center on Sept. 12.
[The family's attorney] Renee Tucker, [said that the boy], who was the only student in the classroom, wanted to leave the classroom to call his mother from the main office to pick him up. As Thomas tried to leave the classroom, Mosley slammed him to the floor. When he tried to leave again, he was slammed to the floor again. It's not clear how [many] times this occurred.
Tucker said that assistant principal Eddie Powell reportedly witnessed the incident and a school resources officer observed Thomas limping after the alleged attack.
Thomas was allegedly told that school officials would call an ambulance, but changed their minds. Once classes were dismissed, Mosley carried an injured Thomas to an idle school bus without notifying his family of the events that had transpired.
[...] Since the alleged incident, Thomas has undergone four surgeries. Doctors at Egleston Children's Hospital informed the family on Oct. 16 that [Thomas'] nerve damage was so severe, his right leg would have to be amputated.
U.S. Uncut further reports
The boy's mother was forced to be absent from [work] while [caring] for son and ultimately lost [her job].
Inside sources have reported that the school is in possession of a videotape of the confrontation and the boy's attorney has submitted an open records request to gain possession of the footage in addition to 50 documents related to the incident. They plan to sue the school for $5 million.
[..] Mosley works for Mentoring and Behavioral Services, which claims to conduct "holistic behavior approaches" to student discipline. Mosley is no longer working with the school district, though it has not been confirmed at this time whether this was a result of his confrontation with the student.
[Continues...]
Further details from The Washington Post :
A 13-year-old student in Georgia was badly injured after a behavioral specialist slammed him to the ground multiple times while at school last month, the boy's attorney [ Renee Tucker] said.
Montravious Thomas's injuries — which included a fractured tibia, a dislocated knee and permanent nerve damage — were so severe that his right leg had to be amputated on Tuesday.
[...] Tucker said there were at least three other school employees who saw the incident, but no one took the boy to the hospital after he yelled in pain and said his right leg was numb. Instead, [behavioral specialist Bryant] Mosley carried Montravious to the school bus, and he was driven home.
His mother took him to the hospital, where they arrived around 3:30 p.m. — about 90 minutes after the incident was alleged to have happened.
"The leg was never stabilized until he got to the hospital," Tucker said.
The boy was airlifted to a hospital in Atlanta that night for further examination. Over the next month, Montravious went through four surgeries to save his right leg, Tucker said. It was amputated Tuesday night, and he will soon have to go through physical therapy.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 21 2016, @12:32AM
If you end up in an "alternative school" due to your behavior, you have already fallen off of the path to success.
It's kind of like prison, kind of like babysitting, and definitely not like education. It can't be otherwise, because education requires cooperative students. Given what normal schools tolerate, you must be pretty bad to get put into an alternative school. It's not just you of course. All your peers are bad. The teachers are used to this and expect it, and will treat you accordingly. They also happen to be crummy teachers, because they would get jobs in normal schools if they could.
These supposed "schools" only exist because the legal situation makes it nearly impossible to expel a student. Nobody expects real education. It's all just nonsense to meet legal requirements. The "students" have been written off, most having been given an unreasonable number of chances in a normal school before being transferred.
Well, if you get reincarnated as a human, try to do better next time.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by quintessence on Friday October 21 2016, @12:58AM
Not necessarily true.
I had to research various schools for uni project at one point, one of which was an alternative school in Kansas for problem children.
I was jealous I didn't get the opportunity to go there.
The structure was closer to university with the benefit of kids learning at their own pace. While there were certainly some kids who put in the bare minimum, there were just as many kids on accelerated programs and even some doing college level work. Discipline was variable with output, with the more productive kids given more free reign. Essentially it was most of the criticisms of the Prussian model addressed while attempting to satisfy a pretty broad range of kids.
Didn't have the opportunity to examine their success rate though, but at least for what I witnessed, I was impressed.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 21 2016, @01:19AM
Have jmorris or VLM started posting AC now?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 21 2016, @07:24AM
I don't know, AC , why don't you tell me?
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 21 2016, @01:31AM
It sometimes only takes one unintentional event to be sent to the alternative school. A friend of mine in high school forgot he had brought his backpack with him to hunt and left a hunting knife in it. The 0 tolerance policy of the school district required police to be called, expulsion from the regular school, and no other school in the region would allow him to transfer in for a year from the date of the incident. No history of bad behavior, threatening behavior, or ill intent required to ruin a life.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by sjames on Friday October 21 2016, @02:06AM
That's important to understand here. It's nowhere near as hard to get sent to a reform school today as it was when many of us here were in school. At one time, a knife in school would (unless actually used on another student) be taken by the teacher and have to be picked up by a parent. That would settle the matter unless it was a repeated violation. If a student was known to be generally well behaved and had a good explanation, they might even be allowed to slide on a first offense.
But however he got there, staff using sufficient violence to break his leg and then failing to provide appropriate medical care is inexcusable. The legal argument that school faculty are acting In Loco Parentis cuts both ways.
(Score: 5, Informative) by Spamalope on Friday October 21 2016, @02:30AM
At one time a pocket knife was something boys had with them at all times, and nobody thought anything of it.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Phoenix666 on Friday October 21 2016, @12:23PM
Yeah. I was a boy scout in the Rockies, and carrying a knife at all times was a matter of course. It's an exceptional tool. Of course, now the nanny state has taken over and even a nail file can get you hard time.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday October 21 2016, @02:39AM
First year of school, I watched the "big kids" in third grade playing mumbletypeg. Teacher walked past, looked things over, and moved on. It was about third grade when I got my own Barlow pocket knife, and I carried it all the time. There is no "offense" involved in carrying a common tool with you.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Friday October 21 2016, @03:39AM
At my elementary school, we got our knives back at the end of the day with a warning not to bring it again, no parent involvement.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 5, Interesting) by Marand on Friday October 21 2016, @04:18AM
It's nowhere near as hard to get sent to a reform school today as it was when many of us here were in school
It's not even a new thing. This was a growing problem back when I went to school in the 80s and 90s, before any of the high-profile school shooting stuff started making people paranoid. I remember students ending up in one of those juvie schools because they defended themselves against bullies, because the school's policy was to send off all involved parties regardless of circumstances. Self-defense was not allowed, you either took your beating or you ended up in juvie.
The faculty was entrenched in a war against critical thinking, avoiding it at any cost when determining how to deal with situations. That's what happens with those bullshit "zero tolerance" policies, you take away any and all logic from the situation and blindly mete out punishment based on an inflexible rulebook. It leads to having an ever-present cloud over everything that happens in the school, turning the experience into something prison-like, because you might be next, and you don't even have to do anything wrong to end up there.
For example, I remember one teacher being clearly afraid of some of the students in her class. I don't know why this was the case -- maybe racism, maybe because they were tough-looking -- but it was obvious with things like the way she avoided eye contact with them or how she'd let them do anything they wanted. She usually ignored anything they did, but sometimes if they got too disruptive, she'd pick other people to punish. She would literally be looking in their direction, see that they were responsible, and then send someone else to the principal's office. Every day spent in that class was a risk that you would get sent to the office and potentially end up in juvie because the teacher was afraid to do her fucking job.
It's not just the students that have to deal with that shit, either; sometimes the teachers get caught in it, too. One of the best teachers I've ever known brought the class pizza one day as a reward for everyone excelling on a major test, and the principal confiscated the pizza and punished him for bringing it, because doing so meant less cafeteria revenue for that day. Fuck encouraging the students, that cafeteria profit is all that mattered. That teacher ended up quitting later because of shit like that. He had retired from something else, had plenty of money, and was only there because he was passionate about teaching...but eventually he couldn't take it any more and the school lost one of the smartest teachers it ever had.
(Score: 0, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 21 2016, @03:43PM
Regarding thug students, sadly, the only solution I can see is to "avoid the problem", i.e., have the parents make enough money that they either can send their kid to private school or else buy a house in a school district with other professional families.
Avoid the ghetto or bad neighborhood. That takes money. You don't have to be born with it, but you can earn it with hard work.
(Score: 2) by BK on Saturday October 22 2016, @05:04AM
Agreed. Unconditionally.
You'd be surprised. I did some IT work at a school like this a while back. Interesting place...
Staff ratios were close to 1:2. Staff was disproportionately male. More male than female students. Racial mix looked like the district though... Anyway, these places are expensive to operate. Class sizes tend to be 4-6 students with 'help' close at hand -- extra counselors and a few aids that looked like bouncers.
In this case (in the story), the staff member that was involved was from an outside contractor. We think of contractors for schools for things like custodial workers as saving schools money while stiffing the workers and enriching some middleman. That's probably not the case here. Educational consultants in certain fields (speech and language specialists; vision and hearing specialists; behavior specialists...) can often name their rates. The agency is used in place of an individual contract to avoid union problems or staff unrest when these folks make 2x or 3x what their peers in regular schools make.
Anyway. In my part of the USA (New England), effective K-12 regular-ed public tuition is 10-13k per year. Placement in a program like this is ~3x-5x that amount if you can run a program in your district. If you have to place someone out, the cost doubles....
My point is that districts don't use these programs any more than they need to. Sure, a zero tolerance policy can land you there but those are rarer now as districts have seen how this can hit the bottom line. In the school that I did support for, the most common way to be placed there was to have assaulted a staff member at a regular school. The next most common was to have 'threatened' someone with a 'weapon'. In most cases, it was a second offense... the district didn't want to spend the money if it didn't have to...
Back in the 1960s, these kids got expelled from school. Today, districts can still expel the student, but they remain responsible for providing an education whatever the cost. Students aren't even allowed to drop out. Schools like this are a result.
...but you HAVE heard of me.
(Score: 2) by sjames on Saturday October 22 2016, @08:18AM
That varies greatly. In some districts, parents must pay a tuition for alternative school and provide transportation while the regular schools are funded entirely by property taxes and provide buses. That pretty much makes it a wash financially. When I was in school, nothing short of aggravated assault could get you expelled (sent to alternative school) in less than 3 offenses and even then it was discretionary.
(Score: 2) by Magic Oddball on Friday October 21 2016, @08:07AM
It doesn't even necessarily require an incident. My school district's attitude in the late 80s/early 90s boiled down to "Magic Oddball misses a lot of school due to her health problems, and some classes like PE are graded on attendance, therefore she should go to the alternative school." My parents were able to convince the admins to work around it so I could attend regular schools (and thus get into a good college), but from what I've heard, the district has been too lawyered-up for that to work since the late 90s.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by edIII on Friday October 21 2016, @02:15AM
What a true piece of shit you are. You might actually be a worse human being than Trump.
NO CHILD EVER DESERVES VIOLENCE LIKE THAT!
You instantly assumed so many things about this child, that school, and his situation. Under no circumstances is it acceptable (unless the 13 year old is actually trying to kill you or somebody) to repeatedly slam them into the ground with undue force.
Yes, it was entirely undue. Nobody needs to apply that amount of force, which was sufficient to cause enough damage requiring amputation.
Your advice? Reincarnate and for !HIM! to do better!? What the fuck is wrong with you!?
I bet you thought it was correct for that asshole to take the girl and have an impromptu WWE session right? She was asking for it? Bad school?
Fuck you.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 0, Troll) by Snotnose on Friday October 21 2016, @02:49AM
What a true piece of shit you are. You might actually be a worse human being than Trump.
NO CHILD EVER DESERVES VIOLENCE LIKE THAT!
Um no. some children are so fucked up they do deserve violence like that. Sad but true.
Disclaimer: Did not read TFA, no idea if this kid deserved it. But I remember when I was a kid there were a couple kids deserved this. Fun fact, when I was 13 a classmate died. Some stupid game where you held your breath as long as you could, he passed out, conked his head on concrete, and died. Got grief counselors and everything. Me? This asshole had made my life hell since I was 12 and went to the new school. He bullied everyone he could. I was happy as hell he was out of my life, didn't care if he moved away or died, it was all good.
And ya know what? As an adult, some 45 years later, I still don't care if he moved or died. He was an asshole to everyone smaller than him.
When the dust settled America realized it was saved by a porn star.
(Score: 4, Informative) by edIII on Friday October 21 2016, @03:02AM
Ummm, not they do not, dude.
There is violence, and then there is violence to the extreme extent that they need to amputate a fucking limb. I'm not saying a kid can't be spanked, or hit across the back of the head. I was punished plenty in my generation.
This was a much bigger adult body slamming the poor boy into the ground *twice* so fucking hard he was noticeably limping and complaining his leg was NUMB. That's major damage to his body (his leg was fucking amputated), and it is entirely inexcusable.
Yes, I remember children that I wouldn't care if they were dead either. In fact, I could have helped them along their way on some days. That was as a child though, I don't feel that way today. Not about a child.
Some kids you got punish I get it. What happened here though:
1) Kid with needs asking to go home and to call his mother.
2) Body slammed into the ground twice
3) Held against his will while he was in pain
4) Not allowed medical attention
5) Not provided medical attention
6) Did not notify the parents about anything that had happened, even though the boy was NOT AMBULATORY* at the end of the day.
* That means he can't fucking move on his own. The fucking a-hole that took this kids leg from him carried him to the bus. He was attempting to hide the problem from others.
If I was the dad, this man would be dead. Or more actually, I would play Civil War doctor and take his leg from him. Some Hammurabi Code on that mother fucker.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Snotnose on Friday October 21 2016, @03:21AM
Again, did not read TFA. But if your summary is correct the people in charge should be charged, convicted, and tossed into prison for a few years. That is unacceptable, no matter how much an asshole the kid was.
When the dust settled America realized it was saved by a porn star.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 21 2016, @03:29AM
You need to spend more time with actual 13yo children^Wanimals
(Score: 2) by Snotnose on Friday October 21 2016, @03:17AM
Alex Popko, died in San Diego in 1971. May he rot in hell.
Knew the name, just couldn't pull it out of my memory. I can always picture his face.
Wow, who knew I had such antipathy for some asshole died decades ago.
When the dust settled America realized it was saved by a porn star.
(Score: 2) by Snotnose on Friday October 21 2016, @03:23AM
I need to quit posting after 3-4 beers, I should not have put his name out there. Even though he was an asshole, and his parents are probably dead, he may have siblings that read this site.
When the dust settled America realized it was saved by a porn star.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 21 2016, @01:42PM
Fuck that kid. He'd probably would've bullied or been bullied by the siblings anyway.
You have a valid reason to lack empathy in that case.
(Score: 2) by dyingtolive on Friday October 21 2016, @06:42AM
Ed, dude, your comment was basically what I was thinking before I scrolled down. You are my first SN friend for this comment.
Don't blame me, I voted for moose wang!
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Entropy on Friday October 21 2016, @09:42AM
Actually some kids deserve a good beating, and there are thousands of reasons they might deserve one, but if you think there are no reasons to beat a child then I suppose if that child is victimizing your child by rape, or murder then perhaps give them a hug and a pat on the head and tell them to do better next time.
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by edIII on Friday October 21 2016, @10:01AM
Man, you're a stupid fuck. Do you have reading comprehension problems?
I said violence against a child, not punishment. Spanking a child, or even taking a switch to them, is NOT the same thing as beating them so severely they lose a leg.
There is punishing a child, and then there is simply child abuse. If you think the former happened here, and not the latter, then you are beyond redemption.
Again, there is no excuse whatsoever for such violence against a child beyond you literally needing to fight to survive. This is a 13 year old child, so perhaps, just maybe, you don't need to repeatedly body slam (ohhhh excuse me! *punish*) a child.
Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with you people? The kid lost a leg. You passed simple punishment for bad behavior quite some fucking time ago.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by Entropy on Friday October 21 2016, @08:09PM
Actually it just sounds like the kid was an unmanageable dirtbag, and something bad happened to him. I don't really waste time worrying about what happens to unmanageable dirtbags.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by edIII on Friday October 21 2016, @08:35PM
I love how you assume the authoritarian power here was instantly correct, the kid was an unmanageable dirtbag according to you (what fucking evidence you douche?), and therefore, deserved the violence upon him AT 13 YEARS OLD, to lose a leg.
The actual facts are that he was a special needs student in a special needs school and was unconscionably abused by an ostensibly trained adult who covered up their activities. The 13 year old boy lost a leg.
You're a complete total piece of shit aren't you? Likewise, I won't be losing sleep when anything happens to you.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by Entropy on Friday October 21 2016, @08:56PM
"Special needs" sounds a lot like "pain in the a--". He's so special needs that he couldn't be dealt with in a normal environment and we had to create a whole entire school for people like him. Then, in that special school he's so much in the bottom echelon that tossing him on the ground daily is the only way to deal with him. I propose this means:
1. He is a unmanageable dirtbag.
You propose that:
2. He is a little angel.
What evidence do you have to suggest he wasn't an unmanageable, annoying, dirtbag? You assume he's a little angel, I assume because they have to toss him on the ground every day he's a fing nightmare. If someone describes this scenario to me and tells me they have to toss this kid on the ground every day because he's unmanageable and can he stay at your house for a week? No. If your answer is "Sure, he sounds like an angel!" then that's your prerogative I suppose.
I'll waste time worrying that we don't spend enough resources on the top 1%-5% of society in gifts that will propel us forward not having a special needs school dedicated to them in assisting them to greatness...and instead having that money spent on a special needs school to sequester kids that can aspire to nothing.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by charon on Friday October 21 2016, @10:26PM
Lucky for you, no one is going to bodyslam you for being vile.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by edIII on Friday October 21 2016, @11:46PM
As Charon said, you're a vile person. Keep doubling down all you want. You can't excuse violence against children that causes them to lose limbs. You can't. You're only excuse is that they're not as human as we are, and subsequently, don't deserve to be free of violence. After all, they're the dredges of society that are better solved by eugenics right?
But keep trying. By all means. Show us how vile you are towards children, and your willingness to abandon them to their fates. Show us the wisdom in mentally and physically torturing a child. For whatever reason.
Continue.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by Entropy on Saturday October 22 2016, @08:48AM
Obviously no one intended to have anyone lose limbs. People can trip, fall, and die..but that doesn't make that the expected outcome of falling.
According to a police report seen by the Ledger-Enquirer, Bryant Mosley, described as a "behavioral specialist," told officers he had to "physically restrain a student due to behavioral issues." The school district says Mosley is an outside contractor trained in "preventing and managing aggressive behavior." The district says there were "issues concerning the safety of the child and others in the room"
Let a violent student rampage over other children, or attempt to control him physically. I guess you choose rampage.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by tynin on Friday October 21 2016, @02:34AM
Completely wrong. I ended up in an Alt school. I brought a "sword" to school, in a school that had after school fencing. The wrong person saw what was an otherwise normal event, and poof, I was turned into a felon, sent off to the same fucking alt school every other person who steals a car or rapes another kid.
Sometimes mandatory minimums end up sending the wrong people to our own little slices of hell on earth. I will never be the same, and I will never trust anyone in power, ever.
Try to stop sending everyone to fucking prison, and you maybe most people wouldn't need to "do better next time". I hate responding to Anons, but fuck you.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday October 21 2016, @02:41AM
But, prisons are profitable!
(Score: 4, Insightful) by tynin on Friday October 21 2016, @03:08AM
You sound like my dad. Sometimes it is not OK to just blurt shit out for the lolz when people have suffered. (but when haven't people suffered says the devil on my shoulder)
That said, fuck it. I support your right to the death to say anything you want. Carry on.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 21 2016, @03:44AM
Just because he has the right, does not make him right.
Its not like your criticism of his lack of humanity is censorship.
(Score: 2) by Anal Pumpernickel on Friday October 21 2016, @06:47AM
Your feelings are your problem.
(Score: 2) by tynin on Friday October 21 2016, @07:33AM
Practically by definition.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Friday October 21 2016, @01:59PM
Blurted out? That "blurt" was a well thought out statement, thank you very much.
Why do you think the US government passed the original laws against marijuana, back in the '40's? Because it was a well known fact, at that point in time, that the evil hemp was the chosen "feel good" of black people, jazz musicians, and bums. Read a couple articles way way back, before the internet, about the prisons petitioning various persons in government to "do something" to keep the prisons full. Marijuana helped to meet the goal of "doing something". Since the internet, I've read some of the same stuff online. Over the decades, prisons became privatized, and less accountable to the people. While society was doing away with state farms, county farms, and road gangs that made sheriff's comfortably wealthy, the privatized prisons flourished.
Prisons are profitable. It's better than slavery, if you think about it. Government picks up the cost for medical care, government pays pretty much everything - all you have to do is provide a bed, let the dog - errrr - PRISONER out for exercise each day, try to keep out of sight of reporters who might be interested in your activities - just rake in the money. Money, money, money, with no real investment. For instance, the City of Texarkana had some old rundown buildings right downtown, that they didn't know what to do with. Private prison comes along, there are discussions behind closed doors, the city renovates the old buildings, the company takes them over, and prisoners begin to arrive.
That privatized prison makes several millions in profit every year, and they aren't even responsible for the upkeep of the buildings.
Profit. That's what prison has been all about for decades.
Damn sensitivities, if they can't face the facts. There is someone, somewhere, who would be happy to lock both you and me up for forever, just so they can make a ten dollar bill off each of our asses every day.
Human rights? Human dignity? Screw all of that. There's money to be made!!
(Score: 1, Offtopic) by Ethanol-fueled on Friday October 21 2016, @03:30AM
Damn, that sucks. One of my good childhood friends wore a military surplus rucksack to school as a backpack. In that rucksack, amongst his school books and assignments, was a length of pipe he called the "niggerbeater" and a sawed-off lever-pump BB gun he called the "niggerbuster."
Skinny White kid. Didn't even come from a racist family or nothing, just saw the movie Stone Cold [wikipedia.org] and decided he wanted to get a head-start on being in a Neo-Nazi Biker gang. And you know what happened to him? Not a damn thing, because he was never caught. He's a welder out in Mojave now.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 21 2016, @03:39AM
Sometimes mandatory minimums end up sending the wrong people to our own little slices of hell on earth. I will never be the same, and I will never trust anyone in power, ever.
That sounds like total shit. But it also sounds like the problem wasn't the people in power, but people without power. Mandatory minimums take human judgment out of the equation. Sure, humans can have poor judgment, but at least those people can eventually be fired or replaced. A mandatory minimum is typically promoted as being 'fair' since there is no human involvement, everybody gets treated equally shitty regardless of the circumstances.
There are no easy answer, good governance requires vigilance and oversight.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday October 21 2016, @01:23PM
A mandatory minimum is typically promoted as being 'fair' since there is no human involvement, everybody gets treated equally shitty regardless of the circumstances.
With such a policy, it's worth noting two things. First, the policy is created by the people in power. Second, it's a successful attempt to evade responsibility and accountability by the people in power.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Ethanol-fueled on Friday October 21 2016, @12:37AM
Well, how much of a problem student was Latavious Jackson? Some of those Black kids are pretty strong, so strong that there's often no feasible self-defense other than a gun -- ask George Zimmerman! If it weren't for the gun Zimmerman was carrying, Trayvon Martin (likely hopped up on crack and with a backpack full of stolen goods) would have put Zimmerman's nose through his own brain!
That kind of thing doesn't happen for no reason, contractor or not - The kid thought that he could throw a swing or two and nobody would do a damn thing about it just because he was a kid. His family and he may win the lawsuit, but the faculty present no doubt have the contractor's back.
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 21 2016, @12:41AM
If he was strong he wouldn't be the one getting an amputation.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by bob_super on Friday October 21 2016, @12:53AM
Unless Daddy pumped him full of growth hormones to makes the football team, a 13 year-old boy has not gone through puberty yet. Started, but not finished.
Shouldn't be a threat to a healthy grown man, nor require multiple "slammings" to get under control.
"Slammings" which shouldn't be used against a minor by a person exercising authority. That's an automatic felony assault, I believe.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Ethanol-fueled on Friday October 21 2016, @12:57AM
If you're a behavioral correcting person in a school where students keep razor blades hidden in the roofs of their mouths, your senses tend to be heightened a bit and your reactions somewhat jumpy.
Yours is typical Western European thinking -- "Oh, this angry young Arab fellow is screaming in my face and waving a menacing object around, he must be some wayward teenager looking to express himself! He's not a threat, not a threat at all! I should take him into my home and adopt him so he can meet my wife and 5 daughters!"
(Score: 3, Touché) by bob_super on Friday October 21 2016, @01:01AM
I totally forgot to equate Columbus, GA with Kandahar... my bad!
Those cheeky students and their hilarious first-day explosive-vest pranks! Always a blast!
(Score: 2) by quacking duck on Friday October 21 2016, @02:50PM
You'd be surprised. I know a special needs educator, big guy, well built, used to play competitive rugby. A 12 or 13-year-old under his care dislocated his shoulder.
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Friday October 21 2016, @01:50AM
Well, how much of a problem student was Latavious Jackson?
That's a great question, Eth!
It's really not clear how big a problem Mr. Jackson [facebook.com] might be.
Which really isn't such a big deal, since the child in question is Montravious Thomas.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 21 2016, @11:54AM
Whatever, these Roman Senators all look alike to me.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Friday October 21 2016, @03:43PM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 21 2016, @05:04PM
Giving your kid a black name is child abuse, no matter if your child is black or not.
(Score: 2, Disagree) by Runaway1956 on Friday October 21 2016, @02:20AM
Modded flamebait - but there is truth in what EF posted. Conformists who try to get along aren't likely to be sent to one of these hell-holes. Chances are low - very low. It's nonconformists, like myself, who are most likely to be "rehabilitated". And, face it, there are a few other nonconformists on this site. I'm not the only Soylent member who marches to the beat of a different drum.
Still - there is truth in EF's post. Even a nonconformist should be smart enough to understand that he's got to go along to get along sometimes. Nonconformism is NOT the same as antisocial. Even psychopaths learn to get along, most often.
Anyone who finds themselves in a "rehab" center has truly fucked up somehow. At least once, and probably multiple times.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 21 2016, @12:42AM
If this is how they're trained to handle the situation then change the training, and don't take action against the individual who was trained to do this for doing it.
Fire, and if possible bring charges against, anyone who: was responsible for this kids safety; and was aware of his complaints; and failed to call an ambulance.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 21 2016, @12:51AM
I agree, but start with bringing criminal charges against the parents for bringing up a thug.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Ethanol-fueled on Friday October 21 2016, @01:00AM
I wonder if the hospital drug-tested the kid when he arrived. The results of that test could exonerate the behavioral contractor.
As an aside, I don't see why this is such a bad thing - unlike other Blacks, this kid will have a good excuse for walking with a limp.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 21 2016, @04:01AM
I'm sure there's more to this story than what's been reported so far. Like maybe he was on the way to bible study (hooking up with his drug dealer) after leaving the library (hooker) then later going to choir practice (knocking off a liquor store) and finally going to his hard working job (snuffing out a rival gang member). There's always two sides to stories like this, and the true one is usually not the one initially reported in the news. Most likely this kid was a gangster thug in training and is just more fodder for Rev Als war.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by aristarchus on Friday October 21 2016, @09:11AM
The things I learn on SoylentNews!
The results of that test could exonerate the behavioral contractor.
"behavioral contractor" = thug.
Seems very similar to:
Security contractor = mercenary.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Friday October 21 2016, @02:18AM
My wife has had training in 'taking down' and restraining kids, but in more gentle ways than slamming to the floor (if that is truly what happened).
She's had to use that training at times, but it's more of an immobilisation thing. Often just putting and holding them off balance than putting them down.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 1) by charon on Friday October 21 2016, @10:39PM
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 21 2016, @12:58AM
I wonder how this will play out, once the video is made public.
Of course it will show that the teacher was only defending himself from a heavily [wikipedia.org] armed [wikipedia.org], oversized, steroid-abusing gangbanger who has, no doubt numerous gang-related tattoos [hotnewhiphop.com].
Because we know that the "brothers" are only good for stealing, fighting and fucking your wife [xvideos.com].
(Score: 5, Insightful) by NotSanguine on Friday October 21 2016, @01:12AM
It makes me sad to see so many people assuming that a child is at fault under the care of supposed professionals.
Regardless of the circumstance, a 13-year old is a child. Even if he was acting out, that's what children, especially adolescents, do.
What's more, according to TFA, "The violent confrontation occurred on the boy’s first day of school." Which makes you wonder if the child even knew the rules. Which, of course, assumes that leaving "class for the main office to call his mother for a ride," is even against the rules.
I'm not sure if it's just that many of you draw the conclusion that since said 13-year old's name makes it seem like he's black, that he must be a violent felon.
I'm glad I haven't had the experiences you have to make me hate and fear children.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 5, Insightful) by frojack on Friday October 21 2016, @01:19AM
There is something seriously wrong here, that makes me think the story isn't exactly written with the truth in mind.
ONLY 5 MIllion dollars? Seriously, how could you ONLY be going for 5 million bucks after such an event. Why aren't there arrests for assault and battery, child abuse, etc. Why hasn't the State already stepped in and dragged everyone out in cuffs and waist chains?
The story is so fucked up that there has to be something we are missing here.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 3, Informative) by takyon on Friday October 21 2016, @01:24AM
$5 million sounds like it is in the ballpark, or actually higher than expected.
The family of Eric Garner settled for $5.9 million with the City of New York, for example. Amputation isn't death.
Smaller cases in which your rights get violated might net you something like $20k - $100k.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 21 2016, @01:35AM
Eric Garner had long passed peak value, which is somewhere around age 18 to 35. (upbringing investment made, with many productive years to go)
Eric Garner was in terrible health. This contributed greatly to his death.
Eric Garner actually had committed multiple crimes. He was selling tobacco in small quantities without paying the city tax. He then clearly resisted the police -- not bullshit resisted, but actually really resisted.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Friday October 21 2016, @12:36PM
I call you a fascist bootlicker or a virulent racist, perhaps both. I saw that video of what actually happened. He was talking to the police, not resisting, and then the cop behind him put him in a choke hold and choked him to death. The end. A person should not be summarily executed for selling loose cigarettes, even if he's done it more than once.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 4, Disagree) by Thexalon on Friday October 21 2016, @01:32PM
There was also the fact that there was exactly one person involved in that video that ended up going to jail for it: The guy who filmed it. Or, more precisely, what happened was that plainclothes cops started following him everywhere he went, he figured out he was being followed, got understandably nervous, borrowed a gun from a friend to protect himself, and then was "randomly" stopped and frisked, and busted for having an unlicensed firearm.
That wasn't the cops looking for justice, that was cops trying to intimidate witnesses.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 2, Informative) by MikeVDS on Sunday October 23 2016, @05:45AM
I just watched the video for the first time. They were trying to cuff him and he resisted. He was a large man and multiple police could not get him hands behind him to cuff him. They took him down with a choke hold, and he continued to fight getting cuffed. His head was getting pressed into the ground and he was saying "I can't breathe, I can't breathe" but he was still fighting to prevent the cops from cuffing him.
Did the police escalate the situation? Probably. If they need to arrest someone, do they need to have the ability to force someones hands? If they person fights, should they just let him go or use more and more force until they can get the cuffs on?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 21 2016, @05:17PM
there's no excuse for choking people to death over cigarettes. it doesn't matter if the guy was a pain in the ass for the cops or not. The cops should go to jail for negligent homicide or something along those lines. period. cops now think they have a right to put their hands on you over anything or bark orders and tase you or shoot you if they are scared. they think we are all slaves and victims or dangerous threats. they will fullfill their own prophecy regading the dangerous threat if they don't pull their head out of their asses.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by frojack on Friday October 21 2016, @01:39AM
The key word is settled. They didn't start there. That's where they ended up.
You Start at 5, you only get 1. Either the lawer is stupid, or there were some unmentioned facts in the story. I read this when it first showed up on one of several sites, and it struck me so wrong at the time that I dug around looking for more information, but it all points back to reports that are almost word for word identical but appears under the name of three different journalists.
First there is no other students in the class room.
Then the class is dismissed.
Then there are fears for the safety of others in the room.
In spite of those inconsistencies, the lawyer is sitting on a gold mine. You stake your claim a lot higher than 5 mil.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Friday October 21 2016, @01:44AM
In spite of those inconsistencies, the lawyer is sitting on a gold mine. You stake your claim a lot higher than 5 mil.
Lawyer or not, I think it's usually best to apply Hanlon's Razor [wikipedia.org] liberally unless and until the facts show otherwise.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Friday October 21 2016, @07:30AM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Friday October 21 2016, @01:29AM
It's not clear what the deal is. However, the WaPo article says: [washingtonpost.com]
So perhaps we'll see some arrests and/or more/bigger lawsuits.
More detail fom the WaPo article linked in TFS:
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 2) by TheGratefulNet on Friday October 21 2016, @02:18AM
5 million is not going to be enough to live on. for the rest of his life, perhaps jobless and needing special care?
I'd ask for 50 million.
and I'd also look for a tony soprano to bust THAT guy's fucking legs. not kidding.
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 21 2016, @07:02AM
I'd ask for the perpetrator to be sent to prison until the day stem cell research is so advanced that doctors can grow a new leg for the kid.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 21 2016, @10:31AM
Amputate the persons legs, put in cryo, wait until kid grows up, transplant.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Friday October 21 2016, @07:33AM
Now watch /Hot Coffee/ the documentary.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 21 2016, @03:19AM
If it wasn't for the same set of users always jumping on the bandwagon where *group conservatives generally don't like* must be wrong somehow.... 13, in school, didn't have weapon, leg eventually amputated. I'm sure the kid fought back, feeling that the teacher was in the wrong and then being physically assaulted for trying to call his mom. What else would you expect from a hothead teen? But damaging his leg to the point of such severe injury?? Something is wrong with you and even an event like this can't uncover your eyes to your own bias.
I've dealt with shitty students, and it is the teacher's responsibility to handle it properly. The story is so fucked up just because you think the amount of money is low? JFC!
(Score: 2) by Hairyfeet on Friday October 21 2016, @06:39AM
Yeah why was he the only kid in the room? this is a public school in GA, they sure as hell aren't having one kid classes. The fact there was only one kid in there makes me think they cleared the class for some reason, was the kid violent? Was he threatening or attacking people?
I'm gonna withhold judgement until we see the video but there is something serious here we are not being told and if there is one thing we have learned about the media since Treyvon Martin and Mike Brown its that they simply cannot be trusted to tell the truth if they think they can spin a narrative about race into a story.
ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Friday October 21 2016, @07:28AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-economic_damages_caps perhaps?
/Hot Coffee/ the documentary is worth a watch, IMHO. You'll hate it, I'm sure.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 21 2016, @05:11PM
ONLY 5 MIllion dollars? Seriously, how could you ONLY be going for 5 million bucks after such an event.
What? How do you propose the value should be over $5 million? If anything, it is way too high. Remember, civil court is to make the victim whole again, not to be a windfall profit.
Throwing some rough-numbers out there:
-Medical costs: $1M for surgery and therapy.
-Lifetime income: $50k a year 40 years = $2M.
(The $50k a year covers the difference between what he could earn if he were whole versus the job he would need to settle for due to the amputation. If anything it overestimates the value, seeing how it is nearly the medium income of the US.)
Where does the other $2M come from? "Pain and Suffering?" Or is it just to pay the boy so he can sit around and goof off for his entire life, knowing he is "lucky" to have such a tragedy befall him?
Why aren't there arrests for assault and battery, child abuse, etc. Why hasn't the State already stepped in and dragged everyone out in cuffs and waist chains?
This part I can't answer.
(Score: 2) by archfeld on Friday October 21 2016, @08:05PM
5M is probably only the demonstrable damage, who know what the punitive amount could result in...
For the NSA : Explosives, guns, assassination, conspiracy, primers, detonators, initiators, main charge, nuclear charge
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 21 2016, @01:22AM
In America, black children don’t get to be children [theatlantic.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 21 2016, @03:40PM
Also a must watch video - the doll test.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkpUyB2xgTM [youtube.com]
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 21 2016, @01:27AM
I assume the kid is bad purely because he was assigned to an alternative school. (I didn't notice the name.) Basically, he's there because we didn't bother to prosecute (boys will be boys!) or because he just got out of juvenile prison.
I therefore also assume the kid is just putting in time until he either gets killed or locked away for good. He's going nowhere good in life.
None of the above excuses breaking his leg.
It probably also doesn't excuse the failure to call for medical help, but to be fair to the school there is the problem of false claims of injury. Lying is expected from the students.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 21 2016, @03:26AM
Yeah, I haven't ever heard a life story where someone started out on a bad track then got their shit together. Nope, not one. At least you still condemn the violence against this "bad" kid.
(Score: 1) by driven on Friday October 21 2016, @02:31AM
I'd rather be thrown in jail than go to a "school" like that. I'm not sure how they even deserve a "school" designation in the first place.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Marand on Friday October 21 2016, @04:50AM
Regardless of the circumstance, a 13-year old is a child. Even if he was acting out, that's what children, especially adolescents, do.
Sort of going off on a tangent here, but do people just not remember how awful kids can be or something? I'm not talking about the article specifically, but I keep seeing this defense of "it's just a kid, kids don't know what they're doing, they're just acting out" like everyone's just forgotten what kind of scummy little monsters some kids can be.
I remember someone throwing rocks through his teacher's windshield while she was driving. He was trying to hit her, was sad she didn't end up in the hospital, and he didn't give a fuck about being punished because he knew it'd be a slap on the wrist because he wasn't an adult. Which is precisely what happened.
I also recall a high-school girl punching (full force, not "playful" or whatever) male students in her class every chance she got, because "guys can't hit girls! You can't hit me back!" She thought it was fun to hurt people, as long as she thought they wouldn't hurt her back.
Sure, not everybody's like that, but the point is that kids are just as capable of being terrible human beings as adults are. In some ways, more so, because the bad ones haven't learned to hide it yet and don't have to fear the consequences they would have to face as an adult. Yet for some reason people seem to to think that isn't the case, preferring to believe they're "just acting out" instead of noticing that kids are as varied a group as the adults they grow up to be, and can be just as good or bad.
And no, I don't "hate and fear children". I just accept that they're not a homogenous group that acts and thinks alike. Kids can be insightful, they can be awesome, they can be witty and hilarious, and sometimes they can be scary little monsters-in-training, but people seem to forget that last one.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by NotSanguine on Friday October 21 2016, @05:18AM
Sure, not everybody's like that, but the point is that kids are just as capable of being terrible human beings as adults are. In some ways, more so, because the bad ones haven't learned to hide it yet and don't have to fear the consequences they would have to face as an adult. Yet for some reason people seem to to think that isn't the case, preferring to believe they're "just acting out" instead of noticing that kids are as varied a group as the adults they grow up to be, and can be just as good or bad.
And no, I don't "hate and fear children". I just accept that they're not a homogenous group that acts and thinks alike. Kids can be insightful, they can be awesome, they can be witty and hilarious, and sometimes they can be scary little monsters-in-training, but people seem to forget that last one.
My point was not that *all* children are little angels, but rather that it's all too common for people to assume that because a child acts out (and especially those who aren't white, suburban and middle/upper-middle class), they must be a dangerous predator who should be put down with overwhelming force.
Do you believe, even if this child was one of the few who actually are little "monsters in-training," that he deserved to be body-slammed onto the floor by a fully grown man multiple times, constituting a severe enough beating to break his tibia and sever a number of blood vessels? And does he deserve to then be denied medical treatment, causing a delay in care which could well be the reason his lower leg needed to be amputated?
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume (perhaps wrongly) that you find this sort of treatment to be horrific, if not child abuse and aggravated assault. No one deserves to be treated this way, even if (and in this case, it's a huge 'if') the child is a rotten little bastard.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Marand on Friday October 21 2016, @06:52AM
Do you believe . . . I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume (perhaps wrongly) that you find this sort of treatment to be horrific
My opinion of the news is basically just "wow, that sucks and sounds excessive even against another adult. I wonder what the full story there is, but we'll probably never know since there's no other witness." That doesn't make for a particularly interesting line of discussion, so I chose to remark on something tangentially related instead. I thought I'd made that clear in the previous comment.
Specifically, I was talking about how you opened with this:
It makes me sad to see so many people assuming that a child is at fault under the care of supposed professionals. Regardless of the circumstance, a 13-year old is a child . . .
I see this sort of thing whenever people talk about kids, like there's no way a kid could do something terrible, so obviously whatever the topic of discussion is, it can't be the kid's fault. People just tend to not want to admit kids can do shitty things, and I find the mental gymnastics involved with it interesting, so I was talking about that rather than the news itself. Especially considering that in the past, someone that age was considered an adult (or nearly one), so this "it's a kid that can do no wrong" attitude for that age group is relatively recent.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by NotSanguine on Friday October 21 2016, @07:38AM
I see this sort of thing whenever people talk about kids, like there's no way a kid could do something terrible, so obviously whatever the topic of discussion is, it can't be the kid's fault. People just tend to not want to admit kids can do shitty things, and I find the mental gymnastics involved with it interesting, so I was talking about that rather than the news itself. Especially considering that in the past, someone that age was considered an adult (or nearly one), so this "it's a kid that can do no wrong" attitude for that age group is relatively recent.
I was 13 once. No, really. It actually happened.
And I was huge fucking asshole, too. I did lots of things that were stupid, nasty, destructive (self and otherwise) and violent/illegal/criminal, so I know from personal experience the kinds of "shitty things" that kids can do.
I can assure you that I was certainly not just patted on the head with adults saying "he's just a kid, he can't do wrong."
And by the way, there have always been parents and others who have the "my kid can do no wrong" attitude. It's common enough that we even have a term for those people: bad parents. They've always existed and they always will.
The trauma, despair and anguish I endured as a young boy pushed me to act out as I got older. The details aren't relevant. However, a caring community, loving parents and a lot of help, enabled me to get past that and become a reasonably happy young man.
If people had just thrown up their hands and said "he's just bad! Beat him down, then lock him up!" Our society would have lost out on the thirty-plus years of productive activity and positive impact I've had on my community and society at-large.
There is a middle ground. Good parents and healthy communities find it. We need more of both.
Yes, in the past that was true. And back then people considered women to be chattel, disease to be caused by "evil spirits" and were just fine with owning other human beings. Do you believe that stuff to be true, good or appropriate too?
What's more, in this newfangled era, most kids that age don't need to work on the farm or in the factory so their family can eat. Also, we know now that kids aren't just "short guys who can't drink." They are physiologically and psychologically still developing and lack the same levels of knowledge, life experience, impulse control and (in most cases) communication skills as do adults.
While that certainly doesn't mean we should ignore it when "mommy's little angel" acts like a complete fucktard, we should also understand that kids aren't adults and cut them some slack. That's not to say we shouldn't do our best to teach them to treat themselves and others with respect and take corrective action, as parents, and when necessary, as a community/society when they don't.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 2) by Marand on Friday October 21 2016, @08:36AM
Okay, the direction you keep going with your responses seems to indicate you think I'm either in or supportive of the "fuck that kid, he's obviously bad, ZERO TOLERANCE, MOTHERFUCKERS!" camp and it's starting to get annoying. Like I said in another reply here, the zero tolerance shit sucks for anyone subjected to it, and I think we need less of that for kids AND adults.
Just because I'm not sitting here going "aw that poor little kid :( burn the motherfucker that did this" doesn't mean I agree with what happened, it just means I preferred to remark on how people tend to assume kids do no wrong. We're quick to jump to conclusions when these sort of "my word against yours" stories happen instead of wondering what isn't being said, especially when one of the people involved is a kid or a woman. If the same story had come up, but about two grown men instead, the general reaction would be more critical and I find it interesting that it happens. People tend to have blind spots about certain topics, and kids are often one.
And back then people considered women to be chattel, disease to be caused by "evil spirits" and were just fine with owning other human beings. Do you believe that stuff to be true, good or appropriate too?
What the hell? How is that even relevant to what I said? I didn't claim that assuming 13+ was adulthood was correct like you're attempting to imply here. I mentioned that it's interesting to think about the shift in perception, and now you're what, trying to insinuate that I'm cool with slavery and treating women like shit? Trying to disprove something I didn't actually claim? Either way, that's bullshit.
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Friday October 21 2016, @10:02AM
Okay, the direction you keep going with your responses seems to indicate you think I'm either in or supportive of the "fuck that kid, he's obviously bad, ZERO TOLERANCE, MOTHERFUCKERS!" camp and it's starting to get annoying. Like I said in another reply here, the zero tolerance shit sucks for anyone subjected to it, and I think we need less of that for kids AND adults.
I never took any issue with your point about zero tolerance. It's stupid and most of us are well aware of that.
Just because I'm not sitting here going "aw that poor little kid :( burn the motherfucker that did this" doesn't mean I agree with what happened, it just means I preferred to remark on how people tend to assume kids do no wrong. We're quick to jump to conclusions when these sort of "my word against yours" stories happen instead of wondering what isn't being said, especially when one of the people involved is a kid or a woman. If the same story had come up, but about two grown men instead, the general reaction would be more critical and I find it interesting that it happens. People tend to have blind spots about certain topics, and kids are often one.
Like I said, we have a term for people who "tend to assume kids do no wrong." We call them bad parents. So we're in agreement there too.
It's not "my word against yours" at all. Or at least it won't be for long. From TFS:
We (or at least the legal system) won't have to wait very long to find out what really happened.
Yes, if it was an altercation between two grown men, there would most certainly be hard questions being asked. That's not to say hard questions won't be asked this time either.
The difference is that this child was under the custodial care of the school and, by extension, the staff member involved. The school is expected to safeguard the health and well-being of students, not injure them and then deny them access to medical care. One of these people was an adult, one was not. It is normally expected that adults have better impulse control and, in this circumstance, the knowledge and training to address issues without harming the child.
Given the circumstance, and in the absence of additional information, it seems perfectly reasonable to conclude that the people responsible for the safety of this child failed in their responsibility, especially since one of those same people gravely injured the child, reportedly in the presence of other staff members.
More information (such as the video mentioned in TFS) may change that assessment. Or it may not. I guess we'll just have to see.
As I pointed out, I (through my own experiences) know very well that kids can be vicious little fucks. No blind spot here, friend.
And back then people considered women to be chattel, disease to be caused by "evil spirits" and were just fine with owning other human beings. Do you believe that stuff to be true, good or appropriate too?
What the hell? How is that even relevant to what I said? I didn't claim that assuming 13+ was adulthood was correct like you're attempting to imply here. I mentioned that it's interesting to think about the shift in perception, and now you're what, trying to insinuate that I'm cool with slavery and treating women like shit? Trying to disprove something I didn't actually claim? Either way, that's bullshit.
I went back and re-read your comment, and I definitely misread/misinterpreted what you said.
Given what you did say, the bit about women, slavery, etc. was *way* out of line. I was wrong.
That bit was completely off base, and I offer you my apologies.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 2) by Marand on Friday October 21 2016, @11:04AM
It's not "my word against yours" at all. Or at least it won't be for long. From TFS
It is right now, but like you said, it won't for long. Whether it makes the news or not is anybody's guess, since this sort of thing tends to hit the news for sensationalism, and then when the facts roll in the media goes silent because it's chasing the next headline.
I hope that isn't the case, though, because I'm interested in finding out what actually happened there. The story as-is sounds like either the teacher went absolutely berserk at random (seems unlikely but not impossible) or something else happened that led to the incident escalating far beyond what it should have.
Regardless, whatever the catalyst was -- and I think there probably was one rather than a sudden, random attack -- I find it unlikely that the degree of violence was unnecessary. Whatever the reason for the incident, it's hard to imagine needing to go that far, though he may have thought it necessary at the time. Even if Mosley had to defend himself, it should have been possible to do so without all that.
Note that I'm not speculating on fault or placing blame here, because we don't know enough currently to make a call on it. But it does make a good example of why self-defense classes are important, for either side. Knowing how to defend yourself can help you defuse bad situations less violently than they might play out otherwise. (Unfortunately, I say this from experience getting into [and out of] some bad situations in the past. Knowing some self-defense has saved my ass a few times.)
As I pointed out, I (through my own experiences) know very well that kids can be vicious little fucks. No blind spot here, friend.
Maybe not you, but it's amazing how blind people can be about kids. Especially their own, but others as well. Maybe it's a sort of "I can't imagine my kid doing that, so I can't imagine anybody else's doing it either" thing, I don't know. If I knew why I'd probably find the phenomenon less interesting.
I went back and re-read your comment, and I definitely misread/misinterpreted what you said.
It's fine, I just had no idea where it came from so I had to ask WTF. It's often hard to tell when someone is misinterpreting what you say vs. intentionally misrepresenting it so I was trying to question it rather than assuming malice. Plus there was always the chance what I said looked like I was saying that, though I didn't see how it could.
So yeah, don't worry about it, no big deal.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by AthanasiusKircher on Friday October 21 2016, @02:40PM
I just had to reply to this thread and say how cool it is to see two people have a serious debate and even get a bit worked up, but then come to understand each other (while acknowledging where they misunderstood too).
This sort of comment thread is incredibly rare on "that other site," where escalating "slash-and-burn" argumentation has become increasingly common. So, it's a really rare thing to see reasonable discussion (on the internet, in general). Kudos to both of you. Glad to have a place like SoylentNews.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 21 2016, @07:07AM
And what this kid did was even worse (that must be why you accept leg amputation, where your example got only a slap on the wrist): He wanted to call his mother. That's just one step down from calling a lawyer or the police, something that could hurt not just the teacher but the entire school. Yeah, we definitely can't have that.
(Score: 0, Troll) by nitehawk214 on Friday October 21 2016, @07:51PM
So this makes it ok to disable a kid for life because "kids are generally assholes"?
No?
Then what the hell is your point?
"Don't you ever miss the days when you used to be nostalgic?" -Loiosh
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by Marand on Saturday October 22 2016, @05:35AM
That's a nice, damning "quote" you've got there. Damn shame that it doesn't actually appear anywhere in anything I said. It's almost like you decided you'd rather attack a strawman than read anything I wrote. Good job with that.
Low effort troll, 2/10. Do better next time.
(Score: 2) by Username on Friday October 21 2016, @05:41AM
A thirteen year old is a teenager. They usually have pubes by that age. Far from what I would consider a child.
It’s fairly unreasonable to throw anybody to the ground, child or not. Teacher should be serving time for assault. This “holistic ” school should be shutdown.
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Friday October 21 2016, @06:05AM
A thirteen year old is a teenager. They usually have pubes by that age. Far from what I would consider a child.
From a biological standpoint, you're likely correct, although we don't know where this particular person's physical development [wikipedia.org] stands at the moment.
From a legal and social standpoint [wikipedia.org] this is a child, which is why he was under the care of supposed education professionals.
I'd also add that the science [npr.org] shows that human brain development is generally not complete until a person is in their twenties.
It’s fairly unreasonable to throw anybody to the ground, child or not. Teacher should be serving time for assault. This “holistic ” school should be shutdown.
I'm in full agreement. That this should happen to a child (from a socio-legal standpoint) in the custodial care of supposedly trained adults, makes this even more heinous.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 2) by tibman on Friday October 21 2016, @02:18PM
20-year-olds still look like children to me.
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(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Friday October 21 2016, @07:23AM
That thought never crossed my mind. The thought that crossed my mind was that, since said 13-year old's name makes it seem like he's black, that the teacher must be a racist cunt.
Let the punishment fit the crime.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2, Disagree) by tynin on Friday October 21 2016, @02:46AM
I would find this person, and I would without question, remove one or more of there limbs. Boxing Helena would be there new way of life. By limb, by limb, by limb. Like the great Sam J said... I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee (and I'm completely not religious, but I'd get unhinged with biblical levels of destruction if you fucked over my son like this).
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 21 2016, @12:11PM
his
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 21 2016, @03:46PM
"their"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 21 2016, @07:26PM
"they're"?
(Score: 2) by GungnirSniper on Friday October 21 2016, @06:40AM
We can transplant limbs and wait years for the nerves to regrow from the new host, but can't wait for a teenager to keep his own limb?
Tips for better submissions to help our site grow. [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by compro01 on Friday October 21 2016, @04:37PM
The trauma to the leg probably caused compartment syndrome.
(Score: 2) by darkfeline on Friday October 21 2016, @05:07PM
A behavioral specialist? Slamming kids into the ground with unnecessary force? Do we also hire the clinically depressed to man the suicide hotlines or repeat traffic offenders to proctor DMV exams?
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(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 21 2016, @05:21PM
why didn't young Montravious just blast him with his phaser gun?
(Score: 1) by Crash on Friday October 21 2016, @11:58PM
You do not have enough karma to use negative moderations. You do not have enough karma to use negative moderations. You do not have enough karma to use negative moderations.
So fuckwits like "Entropy" can say whatever the hell they like, and somehow be posting at Score:2 or getting upvoted, and we're not allowed to use our Mod points to counter that?
So what use are mod points for then? With the low post count in most stories, there's barely even a need to upvote.