posted by
Fnord666
on Wednesday March 29 2017, @07:34PM
from the the-future-is-looking-brighter dept.
from the the-future-is-looking-brighter dept.
New data from the Solar Jobs Census 2016 shows that employment in the solar-power industry increased by a historic 25% nationwide from 2015 to 2016, for a total of 260,077 workers.
The industry added 51,218 new jobs in 2016, a growth rate about 17 times faster than that of the overall U.S. economy, which grew by 1.45%. One out of every 50 new jobs added in the U.S. was created by the solar industry, representing 2% percent of all new jobs.
Growth occurred in 44 of the 50 states. And in 21 states, solar jobs grew by 50% or more, according to The Solar Foundation.
Competition among manufacturers has already brought down the cost of panels to grid parity in many places. Competition in installation can't help but bring those costs down, too.
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Solar Power-Related Jobs in U.S. Grew 25% in 2016
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(Score: 2) by rts008 on Wednesday March 29 2017, @07:45PM (19 children)
The Orange Clown-in-Chief and his Cabinet Clowns will likely make this a short-lived trend. :-(
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 29 2017, @07:49PM (4 children)
All those solar panel installers in CA can move to Virginia and get jobs down the mine. USA! USA! USA!
(Score: 3, Funny) by DannyB on Wednesday March 29 2017, @07:54PM
With Clean Coal, the children will come home in their bright white overalls, just as clean as when they left to work in the coal mines sixteen hours earlier.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Ethanol-fueled on Wednesday March 29 2017, @11:47PM (2 children)
There is no cost-savings with residential solar panels in CA, because the public for-profit monopoly utility finds accounting tricks to get their money back.
It's just virtue-signaling, like driving a Prius or being a White niggerlover.
(Score: 2) by Scruffy Beard 2 on Thursday March 30 2017, @01:09AM
Once solar reaches grid parity, it makes sense that you would pay as much to supply the grid as you draw from it. If you want to avoid grid charges: you need to invest in batteries, or simply size you panels to supply your AC and little else.
(Score: 2) by Whoever on Thursday March 30 2017, @03:39AM
Bullshit!
I installed solar panels last year, and I estimate payback in about 6 years.
The benefit of solar panels may be much less if you install now and get into the NEM2 program (instead of NEM1, which is now closed to new installations). NEM2 requires a "time of use" billing plan, but if your panels point the right way and you have an EV, the payback can still be very good.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 29 2017, @07:51PM (4 children)
How? Anything they do to stop the solar market will immediately piss off their entire base. The only thing they could without terrible blowback is raise tariffs on imported solar panels, that would drive the cost back up a bit but probably not enough to stop the trend.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday March 29 2017, @08:42PM
TFA seems to be about domestic solar. So I'm not sure that tariffs would do anything but increase demand for domestic solar panel production.
It would be unfair of me to complain without suggesting an alternative. So here is a policy idea worthy of the cheeto faced prima Donald.
Enact a system of "green" credits. Those who wisely invest in the bright future of clean coal would receive government subsidies to encourage such investments. Those stuck with solar and wind, unable to switch, would pay green offset credits. This could also help make up for lack of demand for more coal miners, or robots. Perhaps these "coal credits" should be called "black" credits. But a senior white house advisor suggested the administration wants to save that name for a program to be announced later.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday March 29 2017, @11:11PM (2 children)
Anything they do to stop the solar market will immediately piss off their entire base.
Like ending preferential treatment for solar? I bet they could end some federal level subsidies, loan programs, and small scale solar projects throughout government without angering their base and providing some low lying fruit for spending cuts.
But why would Trump want to stop solar power in the first place? If it really is as good as advertised, then that's economic activity that can help him in the 2018 and 2020 elections. He'll need some beefy economic progress to survive 2020.
(Score: 2) by butthurt on Thursday March 30 2017, @01:46AM
> small scale solar projects
There's a set of solar panels on the White House, ready for removal.
http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/205683-solar-panels-return-to-white-house-roof-after-three-decades [thehill.com]
One from the previous set is in a museum in China; around 2010 China produced 80% of the world's solar water heaters.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/carter-white-house-solar-panel-array/ [scientificamerican.com]
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Thursday March 30 2017, @01:45PM
Put the coal miners back to work!
That's also economic activity that the coal miners and entire communities built around coal mining will vote for. Sad but true.
Make America Great Again is really just code words for make America like the 1950's again: Coal, Steel, Manufacturing, Automobiles, etc. No need for all these pesky unimportant high tech jobs.
But here's a free clue: Those 1950's jobs, while important, are not the economic engines of growth in the 21st century. The high tech jobs are. Manufacturing can also mean microprocessors, or even the designs of microprocessors manufactured elsewhere under license.
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday March 29 2017, @07:52PM (3 children)
Build the wall. To keep out illegal aliens. It's called a Donaldson sphere. A mega structure built around the Earth. And we'll make the aliens pay for it. Crazy left wing liberals will cry that the sky is falling because the Donaldson sphere blocks all sunlight to the Earth. This can be made up for by burning even more clean coal. And all those liberal elitist hippies who thought solar was the future -- they will be the laughingstock. How are their solar panels going to work when there is no sunlight?
The lower I set my standards the more accomplishments I have.
(Score: 2) by BsAtHome on Wednesday March 29 2017, @08:22PM
They will light up some lamps with the clean coal power to illuminate the solar cells. With enough clean coal we can emulate the sun and the problem is solved once and for all.
(small child:) but...
Problem Solved!
(wink to Futurama)
(Score: 2) by number6x on Wednesday March 29 2017, @08:53PM
Coal is 100% natural, and since it is formed from the bodies of dinosaurs that died in the flood, some time after the earth was created 6,000 years ago*, coal is 100% organic as well.
Why do the hippies hate Mr. Trump's 100% organic, 100% natural clean coal energy plan? Don't they want to make America 'great' again?
* For various values of 'year', depending on your pre-approved Judeo-Christian belief system
(Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Wednesday March 29 2017, @09:01PM
Not to mention that nobody will be afraid of global warming any more. Quite the opposite, they will welcome every bit of warming they can get! Coal demand will skyrocket!
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 2) by VLM on Wednesday March 29 2017, @08:58PM (4 children)
Its interesting that people assume the God Emperor hates solar, when there's not much evidence one way or another of his personal opinions.
One thing that's not debatable is his "business advisory council" is packed with renewable investors. He'd be pissing off basically his whole council of CEOs if he did something anti-renewable. He could, sure. But other than some sort of "keep your enemies closer" why would he surround himself with people deeply invested in renewables?
As far as broad policy goes pissing off China in a trade war would have renewable problems as an almost microscopic footnote. So there could be unintentional fallout.
Another broad policy he's got is "freeing us from dependence on foreign oil" so to some extent putting up a panel to avoid importing Saudi crude oil sounds like his kind of thing.
Trump also has a "thing" for lower cost energy. Taking a look at:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_electricity_by_source#United_States [wikipedia.org]
It would appear that PV in 2020 will average cheaper than advanced coal and natgas. And renewables in general (counting wind, etc) are more or less the cheapest source of electrons out there.
You know how broadcast TV looked in the 70s or 80s, or newspapers in my parents generation, thats how carbon burning plants will look in just a decade or so. Can you imagine how dumb an electric company rep will look in ten years when some coal plant they just built is twice the cost to operate as a solar and windmill plant of the same output? All that money financed with 30 year bonds to depreciate over decades and its worthless in a decade. There's gonna be money to be made shorting legacy electric companies...
Anyway the point of the latter is it isn't 1970 any more and you don't need communism or socialism for renewables to be the cheapest source of electricity, so... you can love coal or you can hate coal personally, but no CEO is going to spend twice as much to install coal burners instead of windmills just because he really likes soot or some darn thing.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 29 2017, @11:36PM (2 children)
the God Emperor
You mispelled "Emperor With no Clothes"
One thing that's not debatable is his "business advisory council" is packed with renewable investors. He'd be pissing off basically his whole council of CEOs if he did something anti-renewable.
Ermagod! He might piss off the people he tricked into being a photo-op!
Personnel is policy and he put oil guys in charge of the DoE and the EPA. So far he has not appointed anyone with any solar credentials to any position.
(Score: 2) by Whoever on Thursday March 30 2017, @03:42AM (1 child)
I think that you know about as much about the DoE as Rick Perry did.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 30 2017, @02:40PM
>> Personnel is policy and he put oil guys in charge of the DoE and the EPA.
>
> I think that you know about as much about the DoE as Rick Perry did.
I'm sure posting that made you feel good, but how delusional do you have to be to think that Perry and Pruitt aren't oil guys?
Or are you one of those utter dumbfucks who thinks the DoE has nothing to do with green energy research? [hhttps]
PS, I am literally a former DoE employee who worked in nuclear research. Who the fuck are you?
(Score: 2) by butthurt on Thursday March 30 2017, @02:09AM
Mr. Trump had this to say about solar energy (I copy-pasted this verbatim):
We're going to have all sorts of energy. We're going to have everything you can think of, including solar.
And I know a lot about solar. The problem with solar: It's very expensive. When you have a 30-year payback, that's not exactly the greatest thing in the world. But I know a lot about solar. I have gone solar on occasion, but it a very, very expensive thing.
-- https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/05/26/theres-a-lot-to-unpack-in-donald-trumps-answers-about-energy-policy/ [washingtonpost.com]
video of his speech:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9I8soRz1cAA [youtube.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 29 2017, @07:48PM (6 children)
Tesla's big solar cell factory in Buffalo is supposed to start making solar shingles in the near future:
http://buffalonews.com/2017/03/24/tesla-start-taking-orders-solar-roof-april-elon-musk-says/ [buffalonews.com]
If your house needs a new shingled roof, consider this as a 2-birds-with-one-stone option.
No good for me, just spent $12K on new regular shingles a few years ago...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 29 2017, @08:35PM (5 children)
My roof is right on the edge, 25 year old asphalt shingles.
I'd like to do it. But I don't want to be a guinea pig.
So I'm probably going to go with a metal roof and regular solar panels.
(Score: 2) by VLM on Wednesday March 29 2017, @09:12PM (4 children)
My advice to both anons is read your local building code, hopefully online.
To install solar panels where I live you need an architect or CivEng signoff on roof loads for the panels.
Also to the anon putting up sheet metal that stuff is heavy and you might need a signoff, again its heavy, or can be. I would if I went metal.
Anyway my point is if the CivEng says replace your 1/4 inch particle board sheets with 3/4 ply or bulk your trusses up by doubling them with 2x6s or WTF to hold your solar panels up, in some situations blah blah it might be cheaper to upgrade the roof surface and structure before you put the new roof up even if you don't put the panels up.
I'm kicking myself for this now, as I got a new roof about 5 yrs ago and I wonder if I'd need to rip it off to upgrade the innards to hold panels.
If you're gonna install panels sooner or later you can get signed off by an eng now before you get your roof, even if you don't put up panels. Could save you anons some money. So you cheap bastards could use some of your saved money to subscribe to SN and get the nifty yellow stars by your names, hint hint.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Wednesday March 29 2017, @09:25PM (1 child)
My neighbor, who works for Vivint Solar, told me they they finally understood that people like me want to sign a single check for a new roof and panels (because i don't want anyone to play the blame-the-other-guy game for months if I get leaks).
My roof is not going to last much longer, but my bank account isn't looking forward to this. (nope, not leasing)
(Score: 2) by NewNic on Thursday March 30 2017, @04:51AM
"finally".
I guess you don't have Petersen Dean advertising almost constantly in your area.
lib·er·tar·i·an·ism ˌlibərˈterēənizəm/ noun: Magical thinking that useful idiots mistake for serious political theory
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 29 2017, @10:19PM
First anon here. When I had my roof done, the old shingles were cracking and mossy on the north side, but no leaks. Once the two original layers were off, the roofers were very complimentary, the sheathing is 3/4" real plywood from 1963 and everything was super solid, no signs of past leaking or other problem. Plenty of strength to support the weight differential between asphalt shingles and glass/solar shingles (but probably not heavy slate tiles--that isn't a common roofing material around here). Sigh...it will be another 25-30 years before this house is ready for another roof.
Did you look at the photo in the Buffalo News article? By shingling the whole roof, it looks *different* from shingles, but probably would not upset the neighbors because it is uniform. If you happen to live in an area where the neighbors object to "things" then putting up separate solar panels can raise some eyebrows.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 29 2017, @11:41PM
Also to the anon putting up sheet metal that stuff is heavy and you might need a signoff, again its heavy, or can be. I would if I went metal.
And my advice to your fool ass to is just shut the fuck up already.
(a) It is not sheet metal, its either metal shingles or standing-seam, nobody uses sheet-metal for roofing
(b) It weighs substantially less than asphalt shingles, asphalt is fucking heavy
(Score: 2) by VLM on Wednesday March 29 2017, @09:02PM
Aside from the political rants, the jobs themselves are interesting.
First of all aside from the parasitic costs (a solar panel installer has to pay for HR just as much as a software company) the "real jobs created" are almost exclusively blue collar electrician specializations. Its hard to imagine siphoning off an eighth of a million licensed electricians but its happening. So thats cool.
There's a national org trying to solar certifications and they're wedging themselves into the legal code. In some states you only get a legacy tax credit on installs if you use a dude certified by the national org. So that's interesting.