The obesity rate in the U.S. is continuing to rise (slowly, off the couch):
The new measure of the nation's weight problem, released early Friday by statisticians from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, chronicles dramatic increases from the nation's obesity levels since the turn of the 21st century.
Adult obesity rates have climbed steadily from a rate of 30.5% in 1999-2000 to 39.8% in 2015-2016, the most recent period for which data were available. That represents a 30% increase. Childrens' rates of obesity have risen roughly 34% in the same period, from 13.9% in 1999-2000 to 18% in 2015-2016.
Seen against a more distant backdrop, the new figures show an even starker pattern of national weight-gain over a generation. In the period between 1976 and 1980, the same national survey found that roughly 15% of adults and just 5.5% of children qualified as obese. In the time that's elapsed since "Saturday Night Fever" was playing in movie theaters and Ronald Reagan won the presidency, rates of obesity in the United States have nearly tripled.
The new report, from the CDC's National Center for Health Statistics, measures obesity according to body mass index. This is a rough measure of fatness that takes a person's weight (measured in kilograms) and divides it by their height (measured in meters) squared. For adults, those with a BMI between 18.5 and 24.9 are considered to have a "normal" weight. A BMI between 25 and 29.9 is considered overweight, and anything above 30 is deemed obese. (You can calculate yours here.)
Obesity rates for children and teens are based on CDC growth charts that use a baseline period between 1963 and 1994. Those with a BMI above the 85th percentile are considered overweight, and those above the 95th percentile are considered obese.
70.7% of Americans are overweight or obese, according to the CDC's data for 2015-2016.
The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development expects the U.S. obesity rate to reach 47% in 2030.
Related: Obesity Surges to 13.6% in Ghana
Related Stories
Obesity Was Rising as Ghana Embraced Fast Food. Then Came KFC.
Ghana, a coastal African country of more than 28 million still etched with pockets of extreme poverty, has enjoyed unprecedented national prosperity in the last decade, buoyed by offshore oil. Though the economy slowed abruptly not long ago, it is rebounding and the signs of new fortune are evident: millions moving to cities for jobs, shopping malls popping up and fast food roaring in to greet people hungry for a contemporary lifestyle.
Chief among the corporate players is KFC, and its parent company, YUM!, which have muscled northward from South Africa — where KFC has about 850 outlets and a powerful brand name — throughout sub-Saharan Africa: to Angola, Tanzania, Nigeria, Uganda, Kenya, Ghana and beyond. The company brings the flavors that have made it popular in the West, seasoned with an intangible: the symbolic association of fast food with rich nations.
But KFC's expansion here comes as obesity and related health problems have been surging. Public health officials see fried chicken, french fries and pizza as spurring and intensifying a global obesity epidemic that has hit hard in Ghana — one of 73 countries where obesity has at least doubled since 1980. In that period, Ghana's obesity rates have surged more than 650 percent, from less than 2 percent of the population to 13.6 percent, according to the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation, an independent research center at the University of Washington.
The U.S. had a 13% obesity rate in 1962. The CDC estimated that 36.5-37.7% of U.S. adults aged 20+ were obese in 2014 (17% of children/teenagers aged 2-19).
McDonald's is changing up its dollar menus:
The world's largest restaurant chain, facing heavy competition in the U.S., will launch a new value-priced menu nationally next year. The lineup will offer items for $1, $2 and $3, the company said on Tuesday.
[...] But McDonald's is adding the new menu from a position of strength. It has seen U.S. restaurant traffic grow for two consecutive quarters, following years of declines. With the new value lineup, the company is trying to lock in those gains, said Michael Halen, an analyst at Bloomberg Intelligence.
All-day breakfast, "premium" burger options, McCafes, dollar soft drinks, 2-for-$5 deals, and UberEATS delivery seem to have kept McDonald's strong amid changing consumer attitudes about fast food:
Aggressive U.S. promotions included $1 any-size soft drinks, $2 McCafe smoothies and espresso drinks and McPick 2 offers of two items for $5. The changes, part of a turnaround plan under CEO Easterbrook, came as McDonald's catches up with Chipotle, Wendy's Co and other chains that raised the bar for what consumers can expect from quick-serve restaurants.
McDonald's shares have climbed 65 percent since Easterbrook was named CEO in March 2015, well ahead of Wendy's 37 percent gain and nearly triple the S&P 500's rise over the same period.
Also at NYT.
Previously: All-Day Breakfast Boosts McDonald's Profits
America Gets Even Fatter From 2015-2016
She Took On Colombia's Soda Industry. Then She Was Silenced.
It began with menacing phone calls, strange malfunctions of the office computers, and men in parked cars photographing the entrance to the small consumer advocacy group's offices. Then at dusk one day last December, Dr. Esperanza Cerón, the head of the organization, said she noticed two strange men on motorcycles trailing her Chevy sedan as she headed home from work. She tried to lose them in Bogotá's rush-hour traffic, but they edged up to her car and pounded on the windows. "If you don't keep your mouth shut," one man shouted, she recalled in a recent interview, "you know what the consequences will be."
The episode, which Dr. Cerón reported to federal investigators, was reminiscent of the intimidation often used against those who challenged the drug cartels that once dominated Colombia. But the narcotics trade was not the target of Dr. Cerón and her colleagues. Their work had upset a different multibillion-dollar industry: the makers of soda and other sugar-sweetened beverages.
Their organization, Educar Consumidores, was the most visible proponent of a proposed 20 percent tax on sugary drinks that was heading for a vote that month in Colombia's Legislature. The group had raised money, rallied allies to the cause and produced a provocative television ad that warned consumers how sugar-laden beverages can lead to obesity and diet-related illnesses like diabetes. The backlash was fierce. A Colombian government agency, responding to a complaint by the nation's leading soda company that called the ad misleading, ordered it off the air. Then the agency went further: It prohibited Dr. Cerón and her colleagues from publicly discussing the health risks of sugar, under penalty of a $250,000 fine.
Related: Scientists Find Shorter Telomeres in Immune Cells of Soda Drinkers
US Army says Only 30% of Americans Qualified to Join
Obesity Surges to 13.6% in Ghana
America Gets Even Fatter From 2015-2016
(Score: 4, Interesting) by idiot_king on Tuesday October 17 2017, @01:22AM (11 children)
Looking at King Cheeto of Capitalistastan all day sure makes the masses hungry.
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Tuesday October 17 2017, @01:48AM (10 children)
Not exactly that, but the President is our moral leader who we've chosen to represent and lead us, so his actions and how he takes care of himself and eats are a strong reflection on the rest of us. So it's not surprising that a nation full of fast-food-eating gluttons has cheerfully picked a fast-food-eating glutton for their leader.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Tuesday October 17 2017, @02:16AM (1 child)
http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/president-george-w-bush-checks-his-watch-before-a-5k-run-as-news-photo/797135 [gettyimages.com]
Will President Trump ever do something like this? Or at least a 1.5 mile walk?
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Tuesday October 17 2017, @02:48AM
Trump is over 70 years old now. If he doesn't have those habits by now, it's much too late.
And obviously, Bush's efforts at promoting fitness among the American public failed miserably. He was obviously way too much of a liberal, so that's why Trump has been elected instead. He's much more representative of typical Americans.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday October 17 2017, @03:26PM (7 children)
That's never been true.
Complete bullshit.
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Tuesday October 17 2017, @04:26PM (6 children)
That's never been true.
I disagree; the people vote for him, so he's a strong reflection of the population.
>so his actions and how he takes care of himself and eats are a strong reflection on the rest of us
Complete bullshit.
You don't have anything more intelligent to say to counter my assertion? I think it stands. The president is absolutely a reflection of the people who voted for him.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday October 17 2017, @05:25PM (2 children)
People, in general, vote for the least bad option while holding their nose. You know this and you're still being an ass and claiming otherwise just so you can dehumanize anyone who doesn't think like you. This makes you a douchebag.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 17 2017, @07:53PM (1 child)
Triggered eh?
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday October 17 2017, @09:04PM
Nah. I voted Johnson. That was calm and rational voice.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday October 17 2017, @08:58PM (2 children)
So his voters are all billionaires? His voters are all 70 years old or greater white males who happen to be heads of state of large countries? Do you yet see how silly your assertion is?
My rebuttal was more intelligent than your assertion. Let us recall that as usual, there are only a limited number of viable choices for US president and several hundred million people with very different views on what they want. It's stupid to demand a moral president under those circumstances.
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Tuesday October 17 2017, @09:51PM (1 child)
Let us recall that as usual, there are only a limited number of viable choices for US president
There's over 310 million people in the US, and the terrible choices we had on both sides (Trump, Hillary, Cruz, etc.) were all chosen by the American people over the course of many elections, not only the general election and the many primaries before them, but long before that too as all those politicians (except Trump) were popularly elected to various positions many times before running for President. So the people we had to choose from weren't just random people, they were people the American people had chosen to lead them before, and therefore are representative of what we want in our leaders. It's not like these people just bought their way into office; they got to that stage over many years of successful political campaigning.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday October 17 2017, @11:12PM
(Score: 5, Insightful) by crafoo on Tuesday October 17 2017, @01:30AM (3 children)
REFINED CARBOHYDRATES AND SUGARS. Fat and cholesterol aren't necessarily bad. Sugars are killing us. Remove them from your diet.
Exercise at least 3 times a week. Doesn't have to be a big time commitment. If you only have 10-20 minutes do a few high-intensity intervals. Lift for 10 minutes. Walk around the block a time or two.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday October 17 2017, @02:19AM
You'll need to switch to alcohol fueling (there's someone here to guide you). Otherwise you aren't supporting the sugar/HFCS industry - which is contrary to MAGA!
(Speaking of MAGA) Come on, why stop now? You only have 29.3% to go to be a 100% nation of truly great** people!
(large grin!!)
---
** for "large girth" values of "greatness"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 17 2017, @02:43PM
why is it that this is still insightful
do people not know this?
i give credit for it being correct, but its repeated so often that it is hard to believe anyone doesn't already know this and accept it--no matter how much coca cola says that their product is safe and essential for us to buy because it contains water which is required for all life as we know it.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday October 17 2017, @07:28PM
One size does not fit all, though. Genes are powerful.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 4, Informative) by captain normal on Tuesday October 17 2017, @01:43AM (6 children)
If you live in the USA, Myanmar or Liberia here is BMI calculator for pounds and feet: http://www.smartbmicalculator.com/ [smartbmicalculator.com]
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts"- --Daniel Patrick Moynihan--
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday October 17 2017, @02:05AM
According to this at 6' and 170lb mine is 23. I still think I'm too heavy and am aiming for 5-10 more pounds loss though. All the women in my family are, politely put, at least somewhat heavy, and I'd like to be a more normal weight. It feels weird to be lighter than my six inches shorter sister...
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by slap on Tuesday October 17 2017, @03:35AM (4 children)
I'm 6'-0" and 157. My BMI is 21.3.
(Score: 2) by Post-Nihilist on Tuesday October 17 2017, @04:19AM (3 children)
I look like a skeletton
Be like us, be different, be a nihilist!!!
(Score: 2) by Post-Nihilist on Tuesday October 17 2017, @04:23AM (2 children)
Sorry i clicked post by accident i was going to says that i mesure 6ft and when my weight drop under 170 i look like a skeleton... I did not meant to post a weak taunt.... I apologize again for that weird post
Be like us, be different, be a nihilist!!!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 17 2017, @04:29AM
I'm not fat, I'm just big boned.
(Score: 2) by slap on Tuesday October 17 2017, @04:12PM
It all depends on how big your frame is. My frame is fairly slim with larger shoulders so at 157 I look fine.
(Score: 4, Funny) by Thexalon on Tuesday October 17 2017, @01:45AM (2 children)
Yo momma's so fat that ... well, she's fat. I don't really have anything to add to that.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 5, Funny) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday October 17 2017, @01:59AM
...her razor says John Deere on the side.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Tuesday October 17 2017, @06:40AM
Well, if she is so fat, you certainly don't want to add to that. After all, there's no point in making her even fatter.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by krishnoid on Tuesday October 17 2017, @01:48AM (5 children)
This is fairly recent research [sciencedaily.com], so you can take it with a grain of salt. Basically, if your waist circumference is more than half your height, it's a better indicator of obesity than body mass index.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Tuesday October 17 2017, @02:02AM (3 children)
Look at your BMI score, then look down at your toes. You now have enough information to determine whether you are a fatassican.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by krishnoid on Tuesday October 17 2017, @02:35AM (1 child)
Just one question -- WHAT ARE TOOOOOEEEESSSSS!!!???
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 17 2017, @02:41AM
Well, they sorta resemble the dick, only are much farther and are more than one.
Ah, forget it!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 17 2017, @08:18PM
Yeah but most of the country are skilled at lying to themselves.
Someone took der jerbs but soon they'll be rich because of Trump and they're not fat.
Look at cdreimer from slashdot, he's been between 350 and 400 for the past decade but he claims to only eat 1500 calories a day and is only a virgin because he's saving himself for christ.
(Score: 1) by evilcam on Wednesday October 18 2017, @02:50AM
Pretty much this.
BMI is a great indicator for populations where the sample is huge.
It's shit for individuals though, because there are too many variables that influence your individual health (e.g. maybe you're a body builder, maybe you're tall, maybe you're short, etc.); if your medical 'professional' cites your BMI as a concern you should find a new medical professional. Things like blood pressure, resting heart rate, body fat %, cholesterol, etc. are far better indicators of overall health than just BMI.
(Score: 1) by Ethanol-fueled on Tuesday October 17 2017, @01:51AM (2 children)
This whole chain of reasoning is bullshit.
Running feels good.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Tuesday October 17 2017, @02:03AM (1 child)
What exactly are you disagreeing with?
Also, alcohol has calories in it.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday October 17 2017, @02:39AM
Well, that alone is not relevant. Here's a progression:
1. Have almost to no alcohol in your diet and you'll be spared of the calories
2. Have a small amount of alcohol in your diet, and you'll need to restrain yourself from other sources of calories...
3. ... now, switch to an alcohol diet for long enough and I guarantee you your metabolism will switch into a mode (chronic alcoholism) which will make you lose weight fast. How do you know you had or had not enough? Well, simple, if you are still hungry after drinking, you haven't had enough (no, alcohol doesn't metabolize in fat).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday October 17 2017, @02:16AM (40 children)
It occurs to me that we're utter shit at poverty if we're eating that well as a nation.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday October 17 2017, @02:32AM (19 children)
Sure, mate, there's plenty of belt to squeeze (so try squeezing it a bit more, just from curiosity, see what happens).
But this does not mean you are eating well, quite on the contrary.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday October 17 2017, @03:08AM (18 children)
What eating well consists of changes every few years. What doesn't is that fat people are not starving people.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday October 17 2017, @03:38AM (16 children)
LOL, that's obvious.
Is your target "starving people" or "people that eat well"?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday October 17 2017, @10:38AM (15 children)
My point is calling a nation whose poor can afford to walk around weighing 300lbs poverty makes a mockery of this [buzzkenya.com].
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday October 17 2017, @11:02AM (14 children)
And you would suggest to do... exactly what?
'Cause the 300lbs of poverty you mention is caused by the fact they can't afford anything else but "empty calories".
Have you tried to eat what they can afford on daily basis? I can tell you, high chances are eating that "food" for a week you'll end by ingesting more calories than necessary and you'll still feel hungry - that's what empty calories will do to almost anyone.
Add to this the consumerism culture [wikipedia.org] - in a world where the American Dream is dead (I doubt it was ever truly alive), the only affordable challenge is "man versus food"; what other "victory" the man can claim?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 3, Interesting) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday October 17 2017, @11:41AM (7 children)
Yes. I've been as poor as Americans can get at more than one time in my life and I never had the gall to compare myself to people who were actually starving.
And if you think the American Dream is dead, it's because you never knew what it was in the first place. Hint: it isn't "I'll go do something a trained monkey can for eight hours a day and it'll magically make me middle class". It's always been about being able to rise to the limits of your abilities. It's also never been a guarantee of success, just the promise that success is possible.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday October 17 2017, @12:08PM (6 children)
Starving, no. I'll ask you again the questions you ignored: given that starvation and poverty are two different things, what's your suggestion for poverty? Because if you only have critics, we can stop rigt now, thisdiscussion is even more inconsequential than any of the other comments on S/N
Many US citizens are poor without starving.
Mmmm... possibility/probability...
1. true, Zuck stroke rich and it seems rich enough to stay so under most reasonable scenarios.
2. You had some problems lately in "staying comfortable" - so getting to success is no guarantee that one will be able to keep it that way - just ask the fly over country what globalization brought them.
3. Others aren't lucky enough to even reach a modest level of "success".
But, one on top of the other, the reason I said the American dream is dead: point2 - the banks will take care
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday October 17 2017, @12:24PM (5 children)
Changing the goal posts? Get a new playbook. This discussion was never about a solution to poverty.
Of course there are no guarantees. You want a guaranteed outcome you're talking the Russian Dream not the American Dream.
Luck has very little to do with anything. Only those of limited ability think it does.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 17 2017, @02:54PM (3 children)
but you changed the goal post by stating your moral superiority in not having compared yourself to an actual starving person, in your attempt to look better in light of what the question asked of you.
No one cares about your comparison. the question was about you, as an offshoot of the discussion.
it's ok to deflect but it's not an acceptable debate strategy.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday October 17 2017, @03:02PM (2 children)
I think you're reading a different conversation than we're having.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 17 2017, @03:26PM (1 child)
This right here, evasive when you have been caught in a corner. Who the hell would trust you with anything you sniveling excuse for a human???
You always sound so full of yourself but every time you're challenged you back down with a variety of attacks which are almost invariably projections.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday October 17 2017, @03:30PM
I see a great case of projection here. At least you're aware of the concept.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday October 17 2017, @09:00PM
I intended to be have the solution dimension from early on**.
You refused the topic by ignoring it; your right after all but, in my books, it doesn't sit well if you climb a high horse only to get prominence for yourself and refusing to use the high position in doing something or even only considering what could/need to be done.
Maybe you didn't intend to climb a high horse, but believe me it looks that way from where I'm staying (and I might not be alone)
---
**
Is your target "starving people" or "people that eat well"?
And you would suggest to do... exactly what?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday October 17 2017, @01:14PM (5 children)
I grew up in a culture of self-reliance, so the learned helplessness that produces this kind of obesity boggles my mind. I've lived most of my adult life in places where people have that helpless mentality, but it remains alien to me.
If I were that destitute, I'd pick up my fishing pole and head down to the water to catch dinner. I'd grow what I could in window boxes and forage in parks and adjacent undeveloped parcels. Even in NYC you can do that, and that's without even having a share in a community garden. I forage now to keep my hand in and to pass it down as a practice to my kids.
Being able to find/grow/catch your own food is a fundamental human skill. It's the bedrock of personal freedom, too, because without it you're always going to be a slave to someone or something else in order to live.
Now, if you know how to do those things and buy food at the grocery store for convenience, that's different, because it's a choice you're freely making, not one that's forced on you.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday October 17 2017, @03:11PM (1 child)
What gets me is it's a chosen slavery because the skills aren't difficult or expensive to acquire. The Internet or your local library are happy to educate you for free.
Now, I'll grant you that I've spent quite a lot of money on fishing gear but I also know that if there's an old person out near me with a cane pole, they're going to make me question whether the $350 I spent on one reel was worth it when they're catching more fish than me.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday October 17 2017, @04:32PM
And that's if you're playng fair. If you really want to catch fish as an actual food source, a weir or fish trap is easily constructable from available materials and will greatly increase your chances.
Same thing when it comes to birds. A person unafraid of social judgement could live off of pigeons forever.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday October 17 2017, @09:30PM (2 children)
<chuckle>
The subsurbian hunter gatherer/subsistence farmer, with two kids and a mortgaged house, working two jobs to barely stay afloat and eating junk food in her/his way from one job to the other.
Are you serious proposing subsistence farming in public parks for, say, all the homeless persons in California city, that city that denied its homeless people the use of 3 portaloos [soylentnews.org]? 'Cause they don't have windows to grow something in their "window boxes" (this is where the"mortgaged house" comes into the picture).
But you don't survive exclusively from foraging, do you? In fact, it's more like a hobby, right?
Do you believe you could do it at survival level?
Here's a story for your leisure time about one man in Sydney that sampled this for a year [abc.net.au].
Imagine what it would be like if only about 100 people will compete for the same foraging grounds before proposing this as a solution for the "poverty induced obesity" problem.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday October 18 2017, @12:11AM (1 child)
Try a little history [wikipedia.org] if you are certain it can't be done. Try a little research [youtube.com] if you're sure it can't be done. Ask TMB if it's possible to get your protein by catching fish. Ask anyone who hunts what they do with their kills.
You're scoffing because you don't do it or perhaps don't know anyone who does it. But many people do.
To answer your other question, foraging is a hobby for me here. I have never lived from it exclusively for extended periods of time. Growing up in the Rockies my cousins and i would go camping for a week with a day's worth of food and live on what we could forage, catch, and trap. It was fun for us. So i'm fairly confident i could do it for survival if i had to. That's without going all SERE school, too. Here in NYC the options would be less appetizing initially but they would be plentiful. There are millions of pigeons and millions of rats that would serve, and also a really big body of water full of fish nearby called the Atlantic ocean.
I do fish a lot in that ocean. I catch and eat sea robbins a lot. There's no limit and their meat tastes like catfish. New yorkers scorn them because it's a poor people fish. But the latinos, chinese, and russians are right with me.
In the summertime my garden keeps us in vegetables, and that's with only 20% of the yard. I could use more area and can the surplus for winter if i wanted to, the way my family did when i was a kid.
So your hypothetical two-job guy couldn't find the time to do all that, you suppose? I bet he still blows his entire sunday watching football and his evenings zoning out to netflix. If he chose to, he could instead use that time gardening, fishing, hunting, foraging. He could make his kids take up some of that burden instead of wasting time on social media. Other people in less pampered parts of the country do that and have always had to do that.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday October 18 2017, @01:26AM
First at all, I'm not scoffing at all. It just happens I did and do it and know the reality (including the limitations) of doing it
Yes, it can be done...
I grew in an East European country and I remember very well my grandparents doing it with manual tools and using buckets for watering. It is done even now [blogspot.com.au]... if you have all the time required to do it.
Yes, there will be plenty of time to rest and enjoy your life (if everything else is paid for or in your ownership), but if you want that plot to be your exclusive your substance source, that work will be your first priority - it take only 2-3 days to neglect your subsistence crop for it to fail during hot days and you'll be starving the next winter.
I'm having a veggie patch in my backyard. It is good as a supplement with fresh veggies (it's more than good, it's delicious), but it alone cannot feed an entire family exclusively on that.
Even more, it can't be done without cooperation/produce exchange - when the crop is ready, you'll have plenty of ... say... fresh tomatoes, which won't last past 2-3 weeks time; more than you can eat for a balanced diet.
I'm simply giving them away to neighbors - it was 15 kilos of cherry tomatoes last year; since the neighbours are not doing it (well, it's either the veggie patch or the swimming pool for the kids), I get nothing in return - a good thing I don't expect eggs and chooks from them for my living.
Last year I had 4 weeks of eating zucchinis to saturation and beyond - those two plants were producing like crazy - this year I didn't put any in, only the thought of eating zucchini again... (shudders)... it's too soon.
---
Add-on subsistence is possible if you can afford it, but for sure, exclusive subsistence cannot be done:
a. when running one or two jobs that is/are barely enough to pay the mortgage and utilities (not enough time); *or*
b. when you don't own your plot of land and don't have at least water to keep you garden living (e.g. being homeless)l; *or*
c. on a limited surface like you 200 sqm backyard veggie patch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 17 2017, @08:51AM
Starving may be the most obvious way to die from malnutrition, but it is by far not the only one.
(Score: 5, Informative) by takyon on Tuesday October 17 2017, @02:43AM (13 children)
Poor people can be fat because cheap calories != good nutrition. Compare the calories per dollar of fresh vegetables vs. potato chips, cheeseburgers, pasta, etc.
A 1 lb box of spaghetti has about 1,600 calories in it, and you can get that for about 70 cents on sale. A 24 oz can of sauce has 300 calories and is about 80 cents. That's over 1,200 calories per dollar. But it couldn't be called healthy.
Frozen pizza is $2-3.50. 1500-1600 calories would be typical. Still not healthy (maybe better than the pasta?).
Cooked beans (from dry) + a turkey leg is a pretty healthy and cheap meal, but it does cost more and requires more stuff to cook with.
If you have someone working two jobs, they are going to have less time to cook a healthy meal. Eating out options will be limited by budget.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Tuesday October 17 2017, @02:57AM (2 children)
That's why I say tax the hell out of junk food and apply the revenue to reducing the price of veggies, fruits, etc.
Had a carrot, app!e and banana for lunch today. Imma good for poops!
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 2) by digitalaudiorock on Tuesday October 17 2017, @01:19PM (1 child)
....and maybe stop hemorrhaging our tax dollars subsidizing corn in order to make Coke and beef cheaper for McD's bottom line.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 17 2017, @02:57PM
yeah and maybe they can stop subsiding industries that they routinely support while cutting such funding to competing industries while stating true competition would require such markets to stand by themselves without support.
doesnt matter. put a guy in a suit and see how he changes once the lobbying starts.
(Score: 2) by Post-Nihilist on Tuesday October 17 2017, @04:13AM (5 children)
If you make your sauce from tomato paste, fresh tomatoes, semi lean freshly grinded meat (buy the cheapest cuts and use a meat grinder) and various herbs; pasta can be a healty meal but you talked about the red tinted sugary sauces with trace of and/or¹ meat so i disgress...
¹ and/or as in beef and or chicken and or porc and or lamb and or Soylent
Be like us, be different, be a nihilist!!!
(Score: 3, Informative) by takyon on Tuesday October 17 2017, @04:18AM (4 children)
Would probably still need to add onions, eggplant, mushrooms, bell peppers, etc. to call that a balanced meal.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by Post-Nihilist on Tuesday October 17 2017, @04:36AM (3 children)
I wish i could but I get severly depressed when i eat to many vegetables. I am wired for meat, my doctor does not believe that I eat so much meat cause i usually score around 45hdl and 110ldl.... maybe its all the fish i also eat . cause i eat fish (salmon, trouts, tuna or marlin) a minimum of 3 times a week
Be like us, be different, be a nihilist!!!
(Score: 2) by takyon on Tuesday October 17 2017, @04:44AM
Try a savory vegetable like okra. It's great fried, curried, in soups and gumbo, etc.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday October 17 2017, @05:49PM
That sounds more like a nightshade-family allergy than a problem with vegetables per se. Most of our veg are alliums (onion, garlic, etc), crucifers/brassicas (cabbage, kohlrabi, broccoli, brussels sprouts, mustard or collard green), or nightshades (tomatoes, eggplant). You may handle spinach better.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 17 2017, @05:58PM
I'd suggest regular monitoring of your health and as long as you're doing OK and enjoy it there's no point changing stuff. I'd recommend not eating so much of the high mercury fish like tuna and marlin though.
People are different. Some people can smoke and still live till 90+. Others get dangerously high cholesterol/blood pressure/etc just because of genetics.
Some people can be fat and healthy others not so. I remember a kid who was fat and had high blood pressure when he was 15 - whatever he's doing it's not working well for his body.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday October 17 2017, @01:25PM (3 children)
And yet there's all kinds of nutrition everywhere, free for the taking. If I was lacking vitamin C I could walk out my door and harvest sumac from the park to make tea (which we do anyway because it's delicious, somewhere between cranberries and cherries), or grab spruce needles to make tea. Or, I'd go out and collect ubiquitous dandelion greens, which are incredibly good for you [mercola.com]. The dopes in the People's Republic of Park Slope, Brooklyn, will actually go buy the stuff for $4/lb in the organic section of the supermarket but won't stoop to go to the park and pick it for free.
There's a million plants like dandelion, as well, that are everywhere and that most people take for weeds. Purslane, psyllium, burdock, arrowroot, etc.
There are many options for even the poorest person if he's willing to free himself from the idea he can only eat processed food.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Tuesday October 17 2017, @04:44PM (2 children)
Should they be living in the park instead?
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday October 17 2017, @06:42PM
Were you replying to me or someone else?
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday October 17 2017, @07:46PM
Oh, you were quoting yourself.
Working two jobs does not bar healthy eating. It costs more to eat fast food, or processed food. Healthy eating doesn't have to take long either if you know what a crockpot is or have the ability to cook big batches and freeze what you don't eat fresh.
It's not necessary to live in a park to go to one and forage for healthy edibles, if you can't afford to buy it in the store. If you live in a suburb or town it's even easier. Edible stuff is everywhere; it's just that people have been trained to see it as weeds by a food industry that wouldn't make as much money if people knew what most humans knew 100 years ago and even now still know around the world.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 17 2017, @03:16AM
lol
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 17 2017, @04:42AM
Granted, yet consider that bad foods are cheap foods.
Shelf-stable hydrogenized oils are quite inexpensive when compared to unprocessed natural fats that need preserving or refrigeration (and become worthless due to spoilage otherwise). Those cheap oils seem to be directly related to "systemic inflammation" in the human body. Much the same holds true for the shelf-stable cheap corn-and-grain foods that are comparatively inexpensive when looking at the price tag, but come with many hidden costs (including a lack of satiation - something a high-fat, moderate-protein, very-low-carb diet does not lack).
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Tuesday October 17 2017, @08:31AM (3 children)
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday October 17 2017, @03:14PM (2 children)
Nah, I'm comparing "eating regularly" to not. Everyone wants to make it about "eating well" vs. "eating poorly" though.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Tuesday October 17 2017, @09:23PM (1 child)
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday October 17 2017, @10:19PM
Possibly. Or possibly you understood it just fine but are looking for a point to argue. There's no way for me or anyone else to tell.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 17 2017, @03:12AM
Fuck you, I'm eating.
(Score: 3, Funny) by maxwell demon on Tuesday October 17 2017, @07:33AM (1 child)
Now we know: It's not that the sea levels rise due to global warming, it's that the continents get pressed down by global obesity!
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Tuesday October 17 2017, @06:38PM
Global Widening
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 17 2017, @10:07AM
So.... yeah.
(Score: 1, Troll) by VLM on Tuesday October 17 2017, @12:17PM (2 children)
Substantial demographic change. From the turn of the century to now, white children went from mid 60th percentile to a minority. Even greater changes since 1963 as per the article. There's no point talking about "Americans" as a group across time if we're in the process of intentionally genociding the whites as a race and completely replacing the population. In that way its a "School Policy" type of document not a "diagnose the population" document because the population is not remotely constant.
Its interesting to consider other problems kids have. For example the whole hormones making kids go thru puberty at age 8 business might have a side effect of making them fat. Probably not the only problem but maybe a contributor.
The linked PDF came up password protected on chrome on freebsd.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday October 17 2017, @07:54PM (1 child)
OK, I'll bite. Who's leading this genocide of whites? Is it the Jews? Is it crypto-communists from Africa? Mexicans? Chinese? Who is herding your people into death camps and disposing of them in ovens?
Or is it mind control from Thetans, who are messing with you, causing you to abort your children and fight endless wars of attrition?
I am curious, because I look at my cousin and his wife, blond haired, blue eyed Baptists in the Rockies and their family of twelve children, and it seems to me they are doing quite well in increasing the numbers of white people in the world. It seems like you could choose to do that, too. Unless someone is actively stopping you? Is someone actively stopping you from fathering a tribe of little VLMs?
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 17 2017, @08:15PM
He's a fat fuck with a face like a roadkill beaver but if you ask him it's bbc chads and something or another redpill
#MAGA!