Impact of Cleaning Products on Women's Lungs as Damaging as 20-a-Day Cigarette Habit: Study
Regular use of cleaning sprays can have as much of an impact on health as smoking a pack of cigarettes a day, according to a new study. Scientists at Norway's University of Bergen tracked 6,000 people, with an average age of 34 at the time of enrolement in the study, who used the products over a period of two decades, according to the research published in the American Thoracic Society's American Journal of Respiratory and Critical Care Medicine [open, DOI: 10.1164/rccm.201706-1311OC] [DX].
They found that lung function decline in women regularly using the products, such as cleaners, was equivalent over the period to those with a 20 cigarettes a day smoking habit. [...] The experts attribute the decline in lung function to the damage that cleaning agents cause to the mucous membranes lining the airways, resulting over time in persistent changes.
The results follow a study by French scientists in September 2017 that found nurses who used disinfectants to clean surfaces at least once a week had a 24 percent to 32 percent increased risk of developing lung disease.
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 20 2018, @02:10PM (9 children)
Good thing I'm a man. I should be fine while continuing to use those cleaners.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 20 2018, @02:23PM (7 children)
In an auto shop.
Just a couple months of use had me worrying about my health. Looks like my concerns have been justified... just like the cans of RAID people used to spray everywhere, the gasoline people used to clean stuff with, etc.
And I got told I wasn't old enough to be right yet. Fucking bunch of idiots.
(Score: 3, Informative) by takyon on Tuesday February 20 2018, @02:35PM (6 children)
You smell something:
Is it food? No.
Is it natural? No.
Is it a cleaner, gasoline, sawdust, smoke, other particulate, or any manmade chemical? Yes.
Congratulations, it's now causing lung damage and/or cancer.
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(Score: 4, Interesting) by VLM on Tuesday February 20 2018, @03:04PM (4 children)
It seems logical to me that if I'm smelling the cleaner because it evaporated away its not actually cleaning my kitchen table, so I prefer the "stream mode" sprays vs the "spray mode" sprays. Guys have an instinctual ability to aim streams of liquid anyway. Women claim not so much, but I assure you a drop here or there is a pretty excellent percentage overall compared to if we had an aerosol sprayer mounted on the end.
Ditto with paint, sometimes I gotta spray and not brush but I always feel its just capitalist ripoff to sell more paint given that most of the paint ends up wasted or breathed in. I can breathe brake cleaner all day, but its not going to clean my brake disks as well as a nice well aimed stream.
I used an airless sprayer to paint the inside of my well ventilated garage and wore a mask and the filters kept clogging up and I felt bad about the filters until I realized I was better off clogging the filters rather than my lungs. Which is a round about way to point out that nurses kinda understand the whole "wear a mask" thing WRT influenza and coughs and operating rooms, so merely masking up when spraying stuff all over should drop the long disease rates back to normal.
Finally WRT google results of "lung disease rates per profession" it seems to be a first world problem not quite on the level of black lung disease rates for miners. I thought it was interesting that Mesothelioma profession listed hospital on 4% of death certificates, hospitals get into weird stuff in general, including apparently asbestos. Another oddity I found in the google data is the rates have dropped to about a fifth what they once were over my lifetime (wha?) and the rates vary dramatically by employee age and by geographic state. Just saying the data has a smell of funnyness such that you rerun run statistical tests until you get the result you want, in this case matching a very reasonable and plausible theory, that none the less might have no relationship with reality, although if I were a nurse, I'd think about wearing a mask...
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 20 2018, @03:23PM
No need to become a nurse, just wear the mask. You scare children and small animals every time you come out of the basement. Just wear the mask, alright?
(Score: 4, Funny) by Kawumpa on Tuesday February 20 2018, @04:10PM (2 children)
FTFY: "Guys have an instinctual ability to aim streams of liquid everywhere."
(Score: 3, Funny) by MostCynical on Wednesday February 21 2018, @01:51AM (1 child)
So you *meant* to hit the window, sink, and floor?
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 1) by mmarujo on Tuesday February 27 2018, @11:50AM
Of course, that's an extra 75 points!
(Score: 4, Informative) by ledow on Tuesday February 20 2018, @03:18PM
Yup. Smoke (barbecues, open fires, burnt food). Talcum powder. Anything visible in the way of fogging materials (natural fog = plain water, artificial fog is often scented, coloured, etc.), engine exhausts (already proven a lot more dangerous than we ever knew).
Smell is chemical detection of particulates in the air that you've already inhaled.
Like all things "cancer", it doesn't guarantee it, it just increases the risk with increases more with severity, frequency and length of exposure. Normal use and not being an idiot, probably fine for most people. OCD-cleaning or working in the cleaning industry? You need to worry. Same as air-stewardesses and radiation exposure - air travel is the way that you'll be exposed to the highest radiation for the longest duration over the course of your life. So long as you're just travelling normally, you'll be fine. Frequent flyers and stewardesses? Significantly higher rates of some cancers.
Part of my general rules of life - if it smells bads, chokes you, tastes bad, you need to "acclimatise" or "acquire the taste", doesn't feel "nice" (e.g. pain from trying to "sit up straight"), etc. then it's probably bad for you. Now I'm being shown to be right about that (hint: A slightly slouched seating position... better for your back!).
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 20 2018, @02:32PM
Well, according the article you're right (there is a part where they investigated this).
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 20 2018, @02:39PM (5 children)
28 authors to write 3036 words... wow, and that with data pulled from existing databases (read: none of the authors actually had to leave their office desk).
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Tuesday February 20 2018, @02:50PM
28 authors to write "Winter is..... something..."
:)
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 3, Insightful) by TheRaven on Tuesday February 20 2018, @04:52PM (1 child)
sudo mod me up
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 20 2018, @10:47PM
Parent AC here... I've written sufficient papers myself in the past and know how it rolls. The point is that actually very little is done (in terms of experimenting (nothing), analysing (one or two people could do this in about two weeks) and writing (same as analysing) yet so many names on the author list, what makes you wonder who did actually what.
(Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Tuesday February 20 2018, @06:55PM (1 child)
So it's only true research if you leave your office desk?
I guess programmers don't do real work either, as all programming can be done without leaving your office desk as well.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 20 2018, @10:43PM
One can do valid experiments without leaving your office desk, depending on the field... but from medicine I expect at least some lab work to back up their claims.
(Score: 3, Funny) by Gaaark on Tuesday February 20 2018, @02:54PM (5 children)
When i see on tv ads the women spraying febreze, etc, in the air like its just steam-- lots and lots of steam -- i think: yup... kill yourself with cancer. Breathe that poison in, lady. Oh look! Your child is sitting on the couch with the dog! Nice... cancer for them, too.
It only takes common sense to realize you're poisoning the air under the guise of "fresh air scent!".
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 4, Insightful) by bzipitidoo on Tuesday February 20 2018, @07:44PM (4 children)
I think you underestimate the wishful thinking and propaganda people engage in. We've had amoral organizations recklessly exposing their loyal employees to dangers that were at the least strongly suspected-- the story of the Radium Girls springs to mind. I mean, wow, using radioactive materials just to make a watch dial glow, how trivial a use can you find for running such high risks?
It's stunning to realize just how cavalier we used to be about radiation in the 1930s, even peddling dangerously radioactive materials as health cures, and what a complete 180 everyone has done on that. Here we had all these newly discovered radioactive materials, and instead of cautiously investigating them for dangers as well as uses, we just dived in and used them even when we had perfectly acceptable alternatives. For instance, in 1930 one of my relatives had a birthmark removed, and the doctors used radioactive material to burn it off. They could have burned it off with a simple hot iron, but evidently radioactive substances were the hot new thing in medicine at that time-- just how hot, they didn't then understand. Now our use of radioactivity in medicine is much, much more restrained and our understanding of the risks far better.
In the years since, we've concocted novel chemicals by the thousands, and as with the radioactive substances, have dived right into using them without thoroughly checking them out. Evidence of their harmfulness is routinely dismissed, blamed on bad genes, the obesity epidemic blamed on our unhealthy habits. I suspect future generations will be appalled by our willful ignorance and the consequences we suffer daily. One of the worst sources of toxic stench is a new plastic shower curtain, and somehow this has evaded scrutiny for decades. New carpet is also very stinky-- formaldehyde, as I recall. Cheap furniture made out of particle board is bad too. We've made some progress. Good that leaded gasoline is gone, and there's lots of awareness about Bisphenol A now. And yet, lead is still used in lots of places. It's crazy what the psychopaths running large corporations will do to save themselves a few pennies.
(Score: 2) by sjames on Wednesday February 21 2018, @01:04AM (3 children)
The whole radiation thing is all over the place. Yes, the radium girls was a terrible case of employer negligence. The so-called health products were quackery at it's finest. The only saving grace there is that most of the "radium" products "for health" also fraudulently contained no radium. However, in spite of radium watch dials being so popular for many years, I am unaware of any evidence of elevated cancer rates on men's left wrists. Likewise, no elevated rates of cancer of the feet for people who were children when fluoroscopes were popular for fitting children's shoes.
At the same time as the radiation paranoia, household cleaners and personal scents have gotten an unwarranted free pass. Perhaps least excusable are the "masking agents" that "eliminate" bad odors by deadening the nerves in the olfactory bulb which is fairly closely connected to the brain.
(Score: 2) by legont on Wednesday February 21 2018, @03:31AM
The Radium Girls were instructed to "point" their brushes on their lips to save time while men at the factory used lead enforced protection. Than employers claimed that girls died of syphilis. That's murder - pure and simple.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 21 2018, @07:37AM (1 child)
Except Fabreeze doesn't work like that at all ;) It's masking by hiding smelly molecule inside a bigger, neutral, non-smelly molecule. Basically, it puts smells in the box.
And they are talking about "cleaning" in general terms which doesn't even imply using aerosols.
I wonder if "cleaning at home" also implies less physical activity. Occupational cleaners had much lower incidence, which seems ass-backwards. This may be one of these studies that correlation doesn't imply causation as the only correlation seems to be high smoking rates and lung disease.
(Score: 2) by sjames on Wednesday February 21 2018, @05:01PM
But many masking agents do. Those are often put in household cleaners and detergents to deaden the perceived smell. Those are usually called "scent" in the ingredients since neurotoxin might be off-putting.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Snotnose on Tuesday February 20 2018, @03:04PM
Love it when perusing the roach killer aisle and they all say "smells like a natural pine forest". Hello? Can you make my poison smell like a paper making factory or something equally bad? kthxbye.
When the dust settled America realized it was saved by a porn star.
(Score: 4, Funny) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday February 20 2018, @03:09PM
I'm thinking, "Well, stop cleaning your lungs with that stuff!"
(Score: 2) by donkeyhotay on Tuesday February 20 2018, @03:33PM
That's an interesting spelling of "enrollment".
(Score: 2) by Snospar on Tuesday February 20 2018, @03:46PM (9 children)
I recently started using a Steam Cleaner which uses high temperature, high pressure steam to clean without using any chemicals. Hopefully this is better for me than these cleaning products but I'm not 100% convinced - the dirt is basically vaporised and I'm sure I'm breathing some of it in and absorbing plenty through my skin.
I read on one forum a post from a lady claiming she felt like she'd had a nice facial sauna when she finished the steam cleaning. Not sure she understood that the grime had to be going somewhere.
Huge thanks to all the Soylent volunteers without whom this community (and this post) would not be possible.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Tuesday February 20 2018, @03:57PM (1 child)
You should just wear a gas mask while cleaning.
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(Score: 3, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Tuesday February 20 2018, @07:04PM
ou should just wear a gas mask while cleaning.
I'm guessing the exposure route is actually a mist, and not a vapor.
Since mists are just small liquid droplets suspended in the air (not in an actual gaseous phase) then a normal dust mask (N95) should be sufficient.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 20 2018, @04:24PM (5 children)
No chemicals? Not even dihydrogen monoxide? What is the steam made of then?
(Score: 2) by insanumingenium on Tuesday February 20 2018, @04:47PM (4 children)
dihydrogen monoxide, the LD50 on that is huge, I think we are going to be okay.
(Score: 4, Informative) by maxwell demon on Tuesday February 20 2018, @07:08PM (3 children)
Don't underestimate the dangers of dihydrogen monoxide. Thousands of people die due to it every year! And I can assure you, it's everywhere! It can be found in the breast milk of women. It is found in our food. Even in the ice of Antarctica that chemical can be found! Oh, and did you know that is is a greenhouse gas, too?
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 4, Informative) by bob_super on Tuesday February 20 2018, @07:56PM (2 children)
It's so pervasive in our modern life, we're literally bathing and swimming in it !
(Score: 4, Funny) by HyperQuantum on Tuesday February 20 2018, @11:34PM
Maybe we should move to South-Africa. I hear that it is much less prevalent there.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 21 2018, @01:17PM
Also, is is the chemical in the chemtrails.
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Tuesday February 20 2018, @06:22PM
So long as you're using plain water, you're likely just getting Water vapor in the air. I wouldn't use it to clean up a toxic spill of some kind, but your average dirty floor should be just fine. The dirt particles are too large to be hitching a ride on the steam vapor from your steam cleaner. Not sure about fungus spores, but the Steamer my wife uses has a pad that would likely capture those. Steam cleaning would certainly stir up less dirt, etc than a traditional vacuum or broom.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 20 2018, @04:01PM
Good thing I'm using scrubbing milk. No spray, no lung disease.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 20 2018, @04:44PM (2 children)
A few years ago, I noticed at work, church and other locations where some dummy would leave an industrial strength Lysol spray can in the bathroom. Eventually another dummy would use that Lysol spray can to "freshen the air" from what ever smells were offending them. It would cause the air in that bathroom to become so caustic to lungs that people would exit, coughing, for the next 15 minutes. Thankfully, they all moved on to using less damaging air fresheners.
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 20 2018, @06:00PM (1 child)
Pray the spray away.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 21 2018, @12:22AM
The old-fashioned way to deal with noxious odors is "Strike a match".
Just don't do it like Bobby Hill. [googleusercontent.com] (orig) [wikia.com]
Video [google.com]
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(Score: 2) by linkdude64 on Wednesday February 21 2018, @01:59AM
Read the label, right on the back, it says "Do Not Inhale"