from the sad-crying-clown-in-an-iron-lung dept.
Submitted via IRC for Bytram
Cognitive curiosity, cognitive ability, melancholy, and introversion predict social psychological skill, a new Yale study shows.
[...] The authors asked more than 1.000 subjects about how people think, act, and feel in social contexts. The two psychologists began the survey [...] by asking: “Can you accurately infer how most people feel, think, and behave in social context?” Gollwitzer and Bargh did a series of experiments to try and identify traits of those who accurately answered the questions.
[...] The key predictors of social psychological skill were the willingness to tackle a complex problem and cognitive ability, the authors claim.
Interestingly, the authors also found that lonely individuals, as well as individuals with lower self-esteem, tended to answer questions more accurately. Likewise, introverts answered more accurately than extroverts.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by Justin Case on Tuesday March 20 2018, @11:50PM (14 children)
If you have "social psychological skill", that is, the keen ability to see people as they really are, together with "cognitive curiosity and cognitive ability", wouldn't that drive you to melancholy and make you obsessed to avoid others?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 21 2018, @01:55AM
Ha! Funnysad
(Score: 4, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday March 21 2018, @02:01AM (2 children)
Indeed. Sociopaths should be pretty good at the job as well.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 21 2018, @07:28AM (1 child)
The Mighty Buzzard? Takes one to know one?? Maybe you are overestimating your sad abilities. Sociopaths are *TERRIBLE* job at picking up social signals. All they do is try to imitate and guess what is so plainly obvious to the ones that actually feel emotions of others. Remember the saying - eyes are a window into your soul? How you look with your eyes, your facial expression, are a key that will always be missed by sociopaths.
So yes, sociopaths are great at mingling with large group of people, chatting people up and the like. You know, like extroverts at parties. Fun to be around. But 1-1 interaction, terrible. Any empathetic person can pick up indifference of sociopaths that tries to imitate emotion in a few seconds. Their emotions look as real as anime characters compared real people on the street.
And you know what is simplest to pick up emotions? Animals, especially social animals. Even animals like chickens, tons of emotions. You know when they are happy or scared because they don't try to hide it like people. And if you ever see chickens in a commercial barn and not feel their terror, then you are shit at knowing what others think. Just some food for your sociopathic thought.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday March 21 2018, @10:27AM
Didn't we establish just last week that people with ADHD not only feel the full range of human emotions but feel the more strongly than those without the condition? In any case, you're dead wrong on the rest. Sociopaths may be incapable of feeling empathy but if they weren't capable of, and even very good at, at least dispassionately recognizing emotions they would be utterly unable to fake their way through life, which is obviously not the case.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday March 21 2018, @02:06AM (8 children)
Bingo. I tend to stay away from most people precisely because i know exactly how horrible human beings are. And I know it's not possible to make them aware of it, either, because if they were smart enough to be aware of it they wouldn't be this way. It's like social Dunning-Krugeritis.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday March 21 2018, @02:25AM (7 children)
Psychology professionals have psyche problems - more news at 11:00, right?
It's hardly surprising that they think most people around them have psyche problems, since they are projecting.
(Score: 3, Touché) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday March 21 2018, @02:33AM (6 children)
Aww, you've been thinking of me :) I'm flattered I get to live in your head rent-free! Speaking of psych problems, LOL.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 4, Funny) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday March 21 2018, @02:45AM (5 children)
No, but I thought of you when I saw this - http://fatpita.net/?i=3684 [fatpita.net]
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday March 21 2018, @10:38AM
That's funny, that is.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday March 21 2018, @09:07PM (3 children)
Sorry? I'm not getting the connection there. In case you were wondering, I'm 6' and 161lb at last weigh-in.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday March 22 2018, @01:11AM (2 children)
LMAO
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday March 22 2018, @02:07AM (1 child)
Doubtful, dear Runaway. You'd need to laugh longer than your own projected remaining lifespan. Care to share with the class what your original intention was?
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday March 22 2018, @02:21AM
Did you really look at the image in the link? Maybe you need to look back at our exchanges, wherein I outright informed you that I was trolling you, but you continued to take things seriously. At least two of our peers "got it" and modded that link "funny".
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 21 2018, @07:23AM
It actually takes effort, you know, like most things in life. I avoid large groups of people, because people act FAKE in large groups. They never display their real emotions. And then there are places like bars, with dimmed lights, loud music, so you can't even concentrate on another person properly. This inability to see another person for what they are is frankly terrifying. This is why I never go to such places. If there is a hell for me, it's probably a dimly lit bar with a lot of people.
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 20 2018, @11:54PM (6 children)
Introverts! Is there nothing they can't do?
Or, to put it another way:
Would there really be any downside to euthanising all extroverts?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 20 2018, @11:59PM (1 child)
Sales revenue would plummet.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 21 2018, @12:10AM
From March to November, we set our clocks ahead by one hour to boost sales. We'll make it two hours for an even bigger boost.
(Score: 4, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 21 2018, @02:45AM (3 children)
You mean, besides effectively interact or socialize with other people?
(Score: 2) by Immerman on Wednesday March 21 2018, @05:41PM (1 child)
Plenty of introverts are quite good at socializing - they would just rather not do so for prolonged periods.
Intro-/extro-version has nothing to do with social skills, but rather with the emotional response to spending time with other people. Extroverts find social interactions pleasant and energizing, while finding prolonged solitude unpleasant. Introverts respond in the reverse.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday March 21 2018, @09:08PM
^ This. I will never understand how people claim to be energized from socializing. It's draining as hell to me, though rewarding on its own. I think of it as something like interval training for the soul.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 21 2018, @07:27PM
And why are you forcing the poor bastards to socialize?
You sure you're not one of 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘮?
(Score: 2, Insightful) by cocaine overdose on Tuesday March 20 2018, @11:59PM (9 children)
Crawling in my skin
These pills that I will steal
Withdrawal is how I fall
Confusing what is real
There's something in my head,
Consuming, controlling
This lack of drug supply I fear is never ending
Confusing, I can't seem
To find my dealer again
My bills are closing in (without a hit of confidence
I'm convinced that's just too much pressure ...)
In my head, in my head
Zombie, zombie, zombie-ie-ie
Who's in my head, in my head?
(Score: 5, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 21 2018, @12:13AM (3 children)
(Score: 2, Funny) by cocaine overdose on Wednesday March 21 2018, @01:08AM
You take your left needle out
You put your right needle in
You take your right needle out
And you throw up all about
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday March 21 2018, @02:04AM
Well timed and delivered. Laughed so hard I got out of breath.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday March 21 2018, @02:07AM
Oh gods, I fecking LOL'd right in the break room. That was gold!
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by captain normal on Wednesday March 21 2018, @03:43AM (3 children)
Smoke more pot. relax...
When life isn't going right, go left.
(Score: 2, Funny) by cocaine overdose on Wednesday March 21 2018, @03:49AM (2 children)
(Score: 2) by captain normal on Thursday March 22 2018, @05:34AM (1 child)
Hey you two might make a great pair. Kinda like Charlie Allnut and Rose Sayer.
When life isn't going right, go left.
(Score: 2) by cocaine overdose on Thursday March 22 2018, @05:40AM
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 21 2018, @10:26AM
Yes. All things in moderation. Including moderation.
Words to live by, friend.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by NotSanguine on Wednesday March 21 2018, @12:27AM (13 children)
You could look at it in two (well, I suppose you could look at it in many, many ways, but I'm picking these two) different ways.
1. Shy, lonely introverts aren't taking as big a part in social interactions and, as such, are better able to detect nuance and analyze those interactions/situations with more balance;
2. Shy, lonely introverts, especially those with poor self-esteem, assume that everyone hates them because they're worthless losers -- primarily because that's what they think of themselves. This tends to become a self-fulfilling prophecy as they are filled with murderous rage at those who they *think* dislike them, even it it's really just that they don't let anyone get close enough to know and love them.
Based on the question in TFS:
Either of the above explanations work because these folks are self-reporting and not being objectively rated on their ability to *actually infer* the internal states of others.
Just a crazy thought.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 21 2018, @12:34AM (6 children)
Are you saying the study is 'autobiographical'? Are the authors projecting?
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Wednesday March 21 2018, @12:38AM (5 children)
No. Just making an observation.
Besides, I'm an extrovert, so how the hell do I know what others are thinking or feeling?
Didn't you read the results of the study?!? Geez Louise!
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 21 2018, @01:07AM (4 children)
Other than the most basic of emotions you usually can not infer anything. Even then it is hard as it can be faked (or we would not have actors).
At work everyone thinks I am happy and fun. I am not. That is an act. They probably can 'read what I am doing'. I cant. Neither can you. Read someones mind? Only a true narcissist would consider that a possibility that they can do that.
(Score: 1) by cocaine overdose on Wednesday March 21 2018, @01:22AM (1 child)
To those that disagree with determinism, if "sometimes things just happen for no reason" is in your day-to-day vernacular, reconsider posting before thinking, FELLOW!
(Score: 2) by captain normal on Wednesday March 21 2018, @03:53AM
If that is true for you, you should take up poker. Being able to read people is not only big, it is the prime asset for success.
When life isn't going right, go left.
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Wednesday March 21 2018, @03:19AM
Actually, "reading other people's minds" is an integral part of human society and culture, and has been for longer than there have been humans.
Doing so is the basis for things like empathy and sympathy. We do this both consciously and unconsciously via reading body language, facial expressions, affect, vocabulary and usage choices and a raft of other cues that we're constantly giving off, unless we're *very* good actors.
You say you're not happy, but pretend to be at work? It's likely that more people than you think are aware of this, unless you're singularly focused on projecting a false front while at work. Even then, it would be difficult to hide completely.
"Reading" other's thoughts has been widely studied in a variety of disciplines: neural science, social psychology, childhood development, group dynamics among others.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2666715/ [nih.gov]
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2615424/ [nih.gov]
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/articles/200709/mind-reading [psychologytoday.com]
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/aug/23/literary-fiction-readers-understand-others-emotions-better-study-finds [theguardian.com]
https://www.chicagobooth.edu/gls/docs/epleycompass.pdf [chicagobooth.edu]
https://lesley.edu/article/the-psychology-of-emotional-and-cognitive-empathy [lesley.edu]
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21077870 [nih.gov]
http://theconversation.com/children-understand-far-more-about-other-minds-than-long-believed-72711 [theconversation.com]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_mind [wikipedia.org]
Often this is referred to as unconscious communication [wikipedia.org] and many types of nonverbal communication [wikipedia.org]. In fact, this sort of communication is critical in child development [psychologytoday.com].
That we do so is not only ubiquitous (with the exceptions of folks with social agnosia [wikipedia.org]), but also one of the primary reasons that we can cooperate and live in groups.
In fact, it's such a normal part of the human experience, that new theories [wikipedia.org] needed to be developed to address situations where we are unable (i.e., when communicating online) to experience and process the non-verbal cues that we are constantly giving off in person.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Wednesday March 21 2018, @05:59PM
I can read my own mind. Do you want to tell me I'm not someone? ;-)
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 21 2018, @01:38AM
#2 is an example of the Donning Kroger Effect.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 21 2018, @02:23AM (4 children)
3. The extroverts believe image is most important so they inflate their image. The introverts don't believe how people see them is their most important trait so they can more honestly reflect about themselves.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by NotSanguine on Wednesday March 21 2018, @03:42AM (3 children)
That's painting folks with way too broad a brush. Many extroverts don't give a rat's ass what you or anyone else thinks about them. Like me.
And many introverts are obsessed with what others think of them.
tl;dr: bullshit.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 21 2018, @02:30PM (2 children)
People in general get extroversion and introversion wrong. It doesn't say anything about how people present themselves, it's about where people get their motivation and energy from.
An introvert can be the life of the party, but in general, doing so will drain the batteries. Similarly, extroverts are capable of being alone in most cases, but doing so depletes their energy. Trying to motivate extroverts with external rewards or punishments rarely works as well as it does for extroverts. Whereas extroverts are rarely as motivated by internal rewards as introverts are.
There's a neurological difference at work. It's no different from the typical differences between men and women. Most men are just not rewarded by prattling on for long periods of time when compared with women because testosterone depresses the oxytocin that women get as a reward for blabbing about.
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Wednesday March 21 2018, @03:42PM
I have to disagree. You're also painting with too broad a brush.
As to such "neurological differences," I'd like to see some data. Have you done any experiments to support your hypothesis? Are you aware of anyone else who has done so? It is an interesting hypothesis, but unless and until there's data to corroborate it, it's just rank speculation on your part.
If not, you're just editorializing. There's nothing wrong with that, per se. However, I've had a much different experience myself.
I take a great deal of satisfaction from internal "rewards," and while it's nice to be recognized by others, I take much more pride in doing the right things for the right reasons -- even if no one else knows about those things or those reasons.
As an extrovert, I'm perfectly fine being alone. I also really enjoy the company of others and have, as I like to put it, an "anal expulsive" personality. As an extrovert, I do sometimes find it draining to "on" for extended periods, and I don't feel drained or unhappy when I'm not.
It's been my experience that everyone is different in how they react to certain stimuli and situations. This is further complicated by the impact of other factors (mental or emotional states, levels of stress in various parts of one's life, good pizza, bad coffee and innumerable other things) on a person's reactions. Even to the point where they behave differently in identical situations.
So until you provide me with some peer-reviewed studies with actual *data* (fMRI? cadaver brain comparisons with comprehensive psychological workups prior to death, and/or goodness know what else) with statistically significant sample sizes, I won't accept your hypothesis. There's just too much variability in behaviors, motivations and reactions, not just between individuals, but within a single individual.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday March 21 2018, @09:10PM
Okay, wise guy, now explain me, a woman and a hardcore introvert. I can't stand small talk, not even listening to other people go on about their stupid nails or their stupid hair or what their stupid kid did this week in first grade, etc etc.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 4, Insightful) by idiot_king on Wednesday March 21 2018, @12:40AM
Lonely people constantly ask questions internally as to why they don't fit in, which leads them to study others, and in bad cases, leads them to develop theories to, as it were, put a pin through their pet butterflies with a theory of some sort, a theory of for example alienation or some such which explains rather why the observer himself had brought about his entire life. Such individuals litter history books all over, and often times develop methods which often times turn out more to punish than to help (see: Discipline and Punish by Foucault). Those who are on the outside often despise those on the inside for having "more" or "belonging," etc. This is, for example, one of the motivations of Marx (and others who took cues from him) to help alleviate this tension in human behavior. Plenty of other thinkers have been a necessary counterweight, but it's not without irony that the alienated intellectuals would be socially sacrificed (by being alienated) as to make progress in the understanding of society. Queer Theory, Feminist Theory, et al. are manifestations of this outgrowth from being neglected by society.
Perhaps oppression is the necessary evil to reveal more about ourselves, so that we can fix ourselves...
(Score: 5, Interesting) by splodus on Wednesday March 21 2018, @12:58AM
If you are ‘lonely’ and/or have ‘low self-esteem’ you are given to introspection. To question your perceived shortcomings that have led to a lack of friends, and feelings of not being as well-liked as your peers. You examine the way you feel about things yourself, and perhaps get some insight into the mental processes involved?
And you consider issues such as ‘what is it that allows that guy to make a fool of himself, but apparently not care?’ ‘How come those chaps always get invited to the party, but not me?’ And you build mental models of how other people react in various situations in an attempt to understand your own situation.
If you are ‘introvert’ you need to figure out how to turn down invitations, to parties or just to hang out with friends, without offending people. Again, you need mental models about how others feel (because, of course, you don’t want them to think you just don’t like them! You can’t cope with the social interaction right now, but you want to be invited next time; because you might well be up for a party next week!)
It makes a lot of sense to me. The self-confident, the extroverts – they don’t need to dwell on this stuff! There’s no need for them to, perhaps, worry so much about how others are feeling, or how others might react to their actions?
(I’m not saying it’s a Bad Thing either way! It’s just an observation, and chimes with the results here, I think?...)
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Subsentient on Wednesday March 21 2018, @03:12AM (2 children)
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." -Jiddu Krishnamurti
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 21 2018, @11:01AM (1 child)
You judge too much. It affects your precision and prevents you from seeing the underlying internal structures and mechanisms. No doubt, there are many people who are liability as company, but if you see how their clockwork runs, you can manage to steer out of risks.
And just one word of warning: strong feelings and objections are sign of ongoing wrestling with own demons, or fears that they are still there, as they were back at the time others (parents, peers) filled in your today's morality.
If you despise others for something, it means you are afraid that you might be like them. Or, you were once like them, but then someone made you feel genuinely sorry for that. That's the source of the pain you feel when you observe bad conduct of others.
You must either forgive yourself for who you really are, or descend in your mind and find out if there is anything to be afraid of at all.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by cmdrklarg on Wednesday March 21 2018, @02:00PM
No, I think Subsentient is just all too aware that humanity (in general) sucks. For every good person it seems like there are two shitbags.
Though I am not as far on the introvert scale that he(?) is, I can understand where he is coming from.
The world is full of kings and queens who blind your eyes and steal your dreams.
(Score: 1) by helel on Wednesday March 21 2018, @03:22AM
The survey seems to be nothing but a bunch of old psyche study trivia. I could recognize the source of most of the questions just because I spend too much time reading Wikipedia and I suspect I'm hardly the only introvert with that hobby. It's all fine and well as a headline to make you feel superior to others but I don't think this study proves much about actual ability to understand others.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by ledow on Wednesday March 21 2018, @01:59PM (6 children)
I'm quite an extreme introvert.
Mainly because I can list off the people I meet who, within a certain time period, I will never see again, who will fall out with me, or what group of existing people they will meld with. To the point where my ex-colleague used to take "bets" (no money involved, just the satisfaction of being proven right) and he would lose all the time. Literally, I work in a very busy workplace, and we get a lot of people come through. The saying we have is that you either last 2 weeks or 2 years, nothing in-between. And I can look at people and while everyone else is saying "Oh, but he's lovely and he did X and he's so funny and...", I just see through it.
I can't explain what/how/why, maybe a lifetime of being screwed over and people destroying my trust in them, but I can see them for who they are, even when others can't.
It's a pain in the butt as it alienates people. I don't want to be around that guy. I don't want my friends to date that guy (they are going to get hurt eventually). I don't want to be forced into social situations with him. And it does, I'm sure, prejudice the social process just as much as it happens naturally anyway. So I have to keep silent, and be proven right despite "seeing it coming" (that's the worst part, knowing it's going to happen), or voice opinions and lose a lot more.
But as one anecdotal outlier, I would support this research's conclusion. I'm cognitively curious. I'm no genius but I see to be able to think (I have a degree, for instance). I'm not "happy". I'm an extreme introvert.
And I see the liars and scumbags coming.
The up-side? I see the people who are worth making friends with and can devote more effort to them, and not waste it on just general "making friends" with people who will take advantage. And I can cut-short some things that I know are going to be painful in the long-run, for me or my friends.
But the down-sides are MASSIVE. I can't just sit in a pub with random people socialising. That's my idea of a nightmare. Though I can play the guy-who-doesn't-know if I choose to (e.g. a friend's new boyfriend), it's horrible to do so. And dishonest. And misleading to my friends. It's not unusual to hear when a relationship breaks up and a friend says "But you all liked him, didn't you?" and realise that nobody did.
The problem is that such people are successful at fooling people and thereby getting what they want. And most people are trusting and "social" and "polite" enough to allow it to happen. So you end up being the outlier by stopping it happening - because neither of those groups want to admit what they're doing, which is taking advantage, or facilitating that.
Unfortunately, my cognitive side just says "Don't waste your time" nowadays, and that's on either side. I speak my feelings and let people either have their own, or realise my, "told you so" moment.
To be honest, I've got really tired of the soap opera drama of such things.
(Score: 2) by linkdude64 on Wednesday March 21 2018, @08:16PM
Here, here.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday March 21 2018, @09:12PM (4 children)
Are you like the male version of me or what? Wow, that is spooky.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by ledow on Thursday March 22 2018, @03:05PM (3 children)
Judging by your sig, most likely.
Fancy a date? :-)
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday March 22 2018, @08:23PM (1 child)
Sorry, I'm already taken. And also really really gay. Like "Utena and Anthy on a lavender jetski with a rainbow bubble machine" gay. Thanks for asking though; we'd probably be good friends at least.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by cocaine overdose on Thursday March 22 2018, @11:55PM
Xoxo
P.S It's terriyaki thursday, and papa's hungry
(Score: 0, Troll) by cocaine overdose on Thursday March 22 2018, @11:57PM
(Score: 2) by linkdude64 on Wednesday March 21 2018, @08:14PM
With the assumption that people are mostly alike, introvert, extrovert, whatever, and given that I am mostly a person, I feel like it's a quick inference, in many cases, to determine this or that about a person.
For example:
I have a coworker who is one of the most friendly, diligent, hard working, intelligent, and adeptly communicative people I've ever had the pleasure of working with.
Our boss (who is quite objectively ignorant, stupid, and useless when it comes to the things we work on) is constantly ignoring, contradicting, disrespecting, and even berating my coworker, in exchange for the high-level work that said worker does for him. This coworker never tires or lessens the load he takes on.
I simply cannot speak to that boss at nearly any length, and instead say that I will write him emails when things need to be communicated. What it would take for me to do what he does to my coworker could only be explained by a perception of the world that either devalues or ignores (whether due to stupidity or ignorance, both we are practicably responsible for) not only the work that my coworker does, but devalues or ignores all of the work that it took for my coworker to get to that point. It is so gross a slight against such an innocent party that I cannot suffer to even look at said boss without getting upset. This is why I do not talk to people.