Submitted via IRC for Bytram
Trump to pull US out of postal treaty
The US has announced plans to withdraw from a 144-year-old postal treaty, which the White House says lets China ship goods at unfairly low prices.
Under the treaty, a UN body sets lower international rates for packages from certain countries, a move originally designed to support poorer nations.
But the US says the discounts put American businesses at a disadvantage.
Officials said they hoped the notice of withdrawal would set the stage to agree a better deal.
"We're looking for a fair system," a senior administration official told reporters. "We do hope that ultimately we achieve a negotiated outcome."
The BBC's Asia business correspondent Karishma Vaswani says the move to pull out of the treaty is aimed at forcing the Chinese to give up the developing nation status they had when they first entered the pact back in 1969.
[...] The process of withdrawing from the treaty takes at least a year and the White House said it would be willing to remain in the UPU if negotiations were successful.
The US Postal Service and companies such as Amazon and FedEx have complained about the discounts for foreign shippers for many years.
(Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 21 2018, @04:34AM (28 children)
Orange man good.
Foreigners bad.
#MAGA
(Score: 4, Touché) by Gaaark on Sunday October 21 2018, @10:21AM (25 children)
The needs of the many outweigh.....
#MEGA
Make Earth Great Again
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday October 21 2018, @12:24PM (22 children)
Nope. When you hire a guy to run your $entity, he damned well better look out for $entity first.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Nerdfest on Sunday October 21 2018, @02:08PM (17 children)
That's the political equivalent of "Management by MBA", the short-sighted style that gets quick results in the short term at the cost of the future of the organization. Of course, even if the US wasn't run this way, many other countries are. Most of them actually seem to understand that it's a bad thing though.
(Score: 4, Informative) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday October 21 2018, @02:28PM (16 children)
I'm not sure what world you've been living in but it's definitely not this one. See, in this world, the only thing that happens when one nation decides to put others ahead of itself is that nation collapses without making any difference at all in the rest of the world. Communism does not work in reality because it requires every member of the collective to think of the collective first, which is about as far away from human nature as it's possible to get.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Nerdfest on Sunday October 21 2018, @02:43PM
Canada, actually.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Nerdfest on Sunday October 21 2018, @02:53PM (10 children)
I should add that I think it's possible to do things in a much better way. Step one for me would be putting tariffs on goods and services coming from countries with poor environmental protections and human rights protections. Basically a sliding scale that knocks the advantage off destroying the planet and its people for profit. The worse you are, the more gets added. Yeah, it'd never be perfect, but I think it would be a *excellent* first step. It would guess it would move more production back to western countries *and* encourage polluters, etc, to clean up their acts. Just a thought, but I think this is the only way things can work. It discourages the "Race to the bottom" that happens otherwise.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday October 21 2018, @03:45PM (9 children)
Which has nothing to do with international shipping. Like, at all. It is rather funny that both you and Cheeto Jesus are sitting there saying China needs money coming out of their pockets though. I wonder how that'll play out given that both of you oppose the other by kneejerk reflex.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday October 21 2018, @04:34PM (4 children)
People can reach the same conclusion by different routes, even if one (der Gropenfuhrer) got there by entirely wrong or even entirely unrelated reasons. China needs to be smacked down, but not because of anything to do with Trump; because they're an existential threat to the civilized world, though I'm not sure the US counts in there any longer...
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday October 22 2018, @02:28AM
I'm just curious: how did you reach this conclusion?
Also, your "conclusion" may also hinge on the assumption of "China is not part of the civilized world". Did you make this assumption along the way to your conclusion?
(not: I'm not saying I agree or disagree with your "conclusion" - more like an assertion - just asking how did you get to it).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by ilsa on Monday October 22 2018, @07:46PM (2 children)
I am SO stealing that... That's even better than President Cheeto.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 22 2018, @08:25PM (1 child)
Anyone who stoops to childish names instantly turns the rest of whatever they are going to say off for me. If you can't discuss anything without doing that, it might say more about you than the president you dislike so much that you have to insert ridiculous comments everywhere you go.
(Score: 3, Funny) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday October 24 2018, @02:21AM
Oh, *do* keep crying. A friend convinced me to go on a ketogenic diet and it's massively salt-wasting, so you would be doing me a real favor here by continuing to bawl your little baby eyes out.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by Nerdfest on Sunday October 21 2018, @05:24PM (3 children)
We were talking about
. Regardless, I think there was something else the orange hefty bag got right too, although again, I think it was for what I considered the wrong reasons. It's bound to happen occasionally.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 21 2018, @08:03PM
How many "orange hefty bags" are there in the US?
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday October 21 2018, @09:52PM (1 child)
You know, it does my heart good to see someone using their own mind and sense of morality, even when it means they have to support someone they dislike.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Nerdfest on Monday October 22 2018, @01:19AM
Conversely, there are things governments I've voted for have done that I've been completely against. During our last election, I voted "strategically" to get election reform in place, as "First Past the Post" is a big part we're stuck with some of the current problems we have (in Canada and the US). They reneged on the promise though, speaking of things that have pissed me off.
(Score: 2) by Pav on Monday October 22 2018, @03:23AM (3 children)
Ahhh, to have to moral compass of a child... :) I know this is hard to grasp, but try - what if giving a damn about others is giving a damn about yourself? Even if you're a trillionaire this holds - just look at Saudi. That much power at the expense of others is a trap, and things quickly decend to Game of Thrones territory. If the plebs don't string you up, your fellow trillionaires will. You must try to be the most vicious of the vicious, even as your society fails - honest work just doesn't pay in that environment, but being an enabling sycophant does (until it doesn't eg. Khashoggi). Sweden used to be a good counterpoint, until it started sliding into the neoliberal dumpsterfire after slashing its tax rates in the mid 1990's. Luckily those refugees showed up to take the blame right when they were bitten by the economic conseqences of deficit spending to fund corporate tax breaks and giveaways. Still, Sweden still has its Keynsian legacy - the largest number of multinational companies per head of GDP. They can actually build a fighter aircraft on time and under budget too unlike the US these days. They've also reinstated their high income tax rates, though corporate rates remain historically lower (though high by international standards).
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday October 22 2018, @10:39AM (2 children)
Interesting that you think that way despite our entire planetary history showing that not looking out for yourself first, your tribe second, and whatever's left last if at all leads to extinction.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2, Touché) by Pav on Monday October 22 2018, @12:21PM (1 child)
That's why we're single celled rather than... oh wait...
(Score: 1, Troll) by Pav on Monday October 22 2018, @01:42PM
Chimps consist of the warring family groups of which you speak. You're a sad excuse compared to a chimp - beta canines... no, it's actually worse - smaller than femanine. The strength of a juvenile. Your peaceloving species kills relatively fewer in internecine warfare. Your testes are comparatively tiny as one would expect from such a pathetic excuse for a species. You should learn DNA splicing and upgrade imediately. All this cooperating with outgroups is for sissies.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 21 2018, @04:36PM (3 children)
Then he should start trying to do that. After his colossal failure with a trade war with China backfiring on him the way EVERY ECONOMIST ON THE PLANET would have told him it would had he listened to them instead of the yes guy he hired thanks to an amazon search, he seems to think he'll have a different result by doing the exact same thing from a different angle. If shipping from China suddenly increases then the american businesses that depend on imports from China to make their products at an affordable rate will STILL END UP GOING OUT OF BUSINESS.
The difference here is instead of 10,000 particular items or more being hit by tariffs, EVERYTHING will effectively be hit by a tariff.
This could end up being an interesting "postal war".
(Score: 1) by Sulla on Sunday October 21 2018, @06:25PM
The US is failing the trade war so bad that the chinese are running propaganda in midwest states because they are hurting so bad
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday October 21 2018, @09:56PM
You'd prefer to see every last manufacturing job in the US moved to China? Trade wars aren't fun for anyone but there are times they have to be fought. Even a loss would be a better result than a surrender.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by urza9814 on Monday October 22 2018, @02:32PM
It's going to mostly hurt people selling on Wish.com and Ebay and that kind of crap. Larger businesses don't tend to use the post office for shipping materials. This should pretty exclusively hit low-volume shippers, which tend to be mostly direct-to-consumer.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 21 2018, @02:51PM
WTF, man?
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Sunday October 21 2018, @03:59PM
I'm pretty sure the AC was joking. I found it humorous and modded it as such.
mcgrewbooks.com mcgrew.info nooze.org
(Score: 3, Interesting) by realDonaldTrump on Sunday October 21 2018, @11:47PM (1 child)
Thank you for your support! Vote Republican November 6th.!!
(Score: 0, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 22 2018, @12:01AM
s/6th/7th/
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Fnord666 on Sunday October 21 2018, @04:58AM (20 children)
(Score: 5, Informative) by Spamalope on Sunday October 21 2018, @05:02AM (19 children)
And the practice where China ebay sellers ship something defective that had a sales price with shipping of $15 and demand you send it back to get a replacement. Return shipping is $45.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Fnord666 on Sunday October 21 2018, @01:39PM (18 children)
There is that as well. Maybe this won't be such a bad thing.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by requerdanos on Sunday October 21 2018, @02:29PM (17 children)
In my experience, the vast majority of things (excluding usb sticks and sd cards, 99% of which are defective fakes) I order from china are the working items that I ordered, with the exact high China quality* I expected to receive.
I understand that China is receiving an unfair advantage here--you can get a USB audio adapter, for example, for $3 *including shipping* from China--but that example is not just China's advantage, but an advantage extended to Americans and American businesses.
Speaking for me personally, that building-and-rebuilding computers habit gets more expensive, perhaps prohibitively so.
Speaking of an American factory that employs American workers assembling American items that contain some Chinese-made parts, once they are "Made Great Again" from this, the factory is closed and they're out of work. Great again, but unemployed. (Carolina Example [thestate.com].)
So there are upsides and downsides to both parties in addressing the imbalance. To do so appropriately requires a deep understanding of both the numbers and the human issues that the current U.S. leader just doesn't possess. Not saying he won't get it done, just saying don't assume his definition of "Great Again" means something good for you, your community, your country, or anyone really.
---
* That is, the "Okay factory officially closed, now we get out cheap components and make our own parts for a while to sell online" quality.
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Sunday October 21 2018, @04:06PM (1 child)
Speaking for me personally, that building-and-rebuilding computers habit gets more expensive, perhaps prohibitively so.
I used to build my own computers until laptops became cheap enough and my gaming habit faded away. At one time I think I had the world's fastest IBM XT--I'd replaced everything in it except the power supply.
All I use a computer for these days is reading, writing, research, and graphics (and most of the reading is on a tablet). Nothing that takes much power.
mcgrewbooks.com mcgrew.info nooze.org
(Score: 3, Offtopic) by requerdanos on Sunday October 21 2018, @06:11PM
I dunno, mine had an overclocked NEC V20 in place of an 8088.
Unless your operation isn't going to finish because of likely-age-of-the-universe issues, nothing necessarily *takes* a lot of power. But I like to see how much bang I can get for a low amount of bucks.
My goal is a system (note: not a remote third party) that:
- Respects my freedom by being able to run all free software.
- Respects my privacy by keeping my computing local to my computer/network.
- Knows what I am going to do before I have really decided, and has it ready for me when I ask.
- Is Fast. (cf. "Efficient".)
(Score: 5, Informative) by sjames on Sunday October 21 2018, @05:41PM (14 children)
This is not that. A factory here using parts made in China probably isn't ordering the parts mail order one at a time anyway. They will be ordering thousands at a time and receiving them by freight rather than post.
The Amazon sellers where the item is sold and shipped by someone in China will become sold by someone in China and shipped by Amazon. They'll send Amazon an assload of product as freight for consignment, just like others already do.
The big change is that the USPS won't be forced to take a loss on every package.
It would have been better to use pulling out as the threat in order to negotiate a different rate, but Trump isn't good at negotiation since that requires listening to someone else and at least temporarily seeing their side of things.
(Score: 2) by requerdanos on Sunday October 21 2018, @06:03PM (2 children)
It's not all or nothing. Depending on the size of the factory and the volume of its various outputs, some parts will be sourced by the bargeload and some by the China Post E-Packet.
The proportion of barge to packet will have a lot to do with how affected the hypothetical factory is, but I don't think it's right to pretend that no one will be affected just because many products are sourced by high-volume components.
Products that are closer to "niche products" than "mass market" are an area in which American factories can try to get America back into manufacturing (because of the high cost of entry and low profit margins for manufacturing mass market goods), and those are the ones most likely to be affected.
(Score: 2) by sjames on Sunday October 21 2018, @06:19PM (1 child)
If they're getting by on a low enough volume that they're getting parts by post, the item is either already expensive, high margin, or a small part of a larger business.
(Score: 2) by urza9814 on Monday October 22 2018, @02:44PM
Yup...and in that case this could actually be beneficial for them.
As you said, if they're getting parts by post, it's pretty low volume. If it's that low volume, it's probably not worth investing in huge amounts of automated manufacturing. There's a lot of test or scientific instrumentation like that which is still manufactured in the US. So it's massively expensive, largely due to labor costs. They've gotta be hand manufactured, and since they're low volume and high cost they're probably high precision which means you need the guy building it to actually have a clue what he's doing. And the people buying it aren't trying to cut every last cent off the cost either, they expect it to be an expensive piece of equipment.
So suppose you're paying someone ten bucks to solder on a twenty cent part which now just became a fifty cent part. An increase of three tenths of a percent compared only to the total labor cost. Who gives a fuck?
On the other hand, there's probably still someone in China manufacturing similar instruments, but since the completed instrument is bigger and more expensive, it costs more to ship, and that cost will probably increase by a greater amount. The only way the domestic assembler loses is if they're buying damn near every single part from China by post. Which would seem to be pretty stupid.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by jmorris on Sunday October 21 2018, @06:08PM (9 children)
Gave ya "Informative for the first three paragraphs because that is identical to what I could have posted. That last one is where you fail. You just watched President Trump do the hard negotiating thing with Canada and Mexico and end up with a new trade deal that certainly benefits the U.S. but will probably benefit all three when the dust settles.
Your confusion probably stems from hating Mr. Trump so intensely you can't see straight. But part of it is probably a result of never having seen any negotiation involing the U.S. where the U.S. side tries to drive a fair bargain, the pattern has always been to "redistribute" success away from the U.S. because.... reasons never verbalized.
(Score: 4, Informative) by sjames on Sunday October 21 2018, @06:34PM (8 children)
Trump is not the shrewd businessman he paints himself as. He is only effective when he holds most of the cards. That is, the classic bully.
That's not to say we haven't seen some bad deals made by other presidents.
(Score: 2) by jmorris on Sunday October 21 2018, @06:49PM (7 children)
Doesn't it make you wonder, if the U.S. "holds all the cards" as you say, why have we made such horrible deals for decades that an "incompetent bungler" can get such better results merely by trying?
(Score: 4, Interesting) by requerdanos on Sunday October 21 2018, @07:11PM (2 children)
No one said that but you. The key point here is that for President Trump, the "art of the deal" is don't negotiate until your position is stronger, and then demand what you want, and that negotiation between relative peers who must consider each other's positions is beyond him. Everyone has what they are good at, and seeing the other guy's position just happens to not be that thing for the President. That doesn't mean there is "hatred," merely recognition of his weaknesses and his lack of enthusiasm for exposing them during negotiations.
That's a very good, very insightful question, whether you meant for it to be or not. Often, he who negotiates on behalf of the U.S. keeps in mind a three-ring circus of things that they want to keep intact and beneficial throughout a negotiation: Good international relations, maintaining a U.S. ethical position on areas where we as a nation take a stand, appeasing other parties so we don't look like a bully, and last and sometimes least, our own interest. That often means that even if the "soft" goals are met, the real goal of serving U.S. interests has fallen by the wayside. This has come to even be some perverse sort of point of honor.
Trump is a direct solution to this. He doesn't give a thought to international relations, he has no ethical positions, takes no stands except transient ones during particular negotiations, is horrified by the thought of appearing to appease any other party, and is interested in looking out for his own interest.
Where his interests and the interests of the country coincide--which frequently happens now that he's president--that serves the U.S. interests in question.
It certainly should! Why does it take a barking orange reality TV star to actually look out for U.S. Interests? Couldn't, you know, politicians have been doing this all along?
This is a big part of why the President got elected over more traditional, do-nothing candidates. He doesn't have to be a genius to exercise his advantages (thank God), he only has to exercise them. Everyone involved in international politics, or voting on people who will be, should take careful note.
(Score: 2) by jmorris on Sunday October 21 2018, @11:16PM (1 child)
Try to keep up, I quoted the words because I was QUOTING sjames in the parent post.
And yeah, negotiation is generally done by each side going into it thinking they have a bit of leverage and asking for more than they will settle for. That is why they call it a negotiation. Duh. The question is why we sucked so hard at for for the last few generations.
This here is the very heart of it. People like myself (and perhaps you) have realized most of our problems are quite simple ones, any idiot can see both the problem and an obvious solution. What was maddening was the unseen force that kept declaring the problems to not actually be problems and the solutions entirely outside the bounds of political debate.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 22 2018, @06:22PM
We're all way ahead of you, you are the regressive that needs to join modern human civilization.
(Score: 2) by sjames on Sunday October 21 2018, @08:37PM (3 children)
requerdanos covered most of it, but we also have to ask, have we really gotten much in the way of results?
(Score: 2) by jmorris on Sunday October 21 2018, @11:23PM (2 children)
Have we got results. Hmm. Fifty year low unemployment, stock market up, taxes and regulations down. Domestic front looks pretty good for two years in. They are digging up the minefields in Korea and planning a formal end of the Korean War, no new wars started. NAFTA renegotiated, China slapped upside the head and fully engaged with us as equals instead of our normal bending over and telling them to be gentle with our butthole... but they never were. BrExit wobbling but still on, Europe generally waking up from the nightmare before succumbing to death. So yeah, the foreign front looks pretty good too. Still no wall but that is the hill the Progs will die on, so we have to build up the political will to give them their wish.
Since I voted for Mr. Trump as basically the chosen form of the Destructor, grading the 2nd Season of The Trump Presidency a solid A-. Dinging for no wall, and Hillary Clinton still walking free.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by sjames on Monday October 22 2018, @01:01AM (1 child)
Taxes down, deficit up. Unemployment following the trend left by previous administration (though it slowed down since Trump took over). New NAFTA is largely cosmetic changes over the old NAFTA. A win for Mexican unions (what benefit here?) A win for Big Pharma (no benefits for the rest of us) minor opening of dairy market in Canada (yeah, higher milk prices for us!) The Koreas are taking care of the Koreas just fine by themselves. Trump has literally nothing to do with Brexit (not sure why you care unless you just want to see others hurting).
The biggest "win" is that he's been totally ineffective building the wall so at least we don't have that big fat bill to pay for now (you don't REALLY think Mexico is going to pay for that, do you?) and he hasn't managed to leave millions without healthcare.
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 22 2018, @07:14AM
Walls are way cheaper than interstate highways. Note the interstate highways all over the country.
The wall is cheaper than the cost of dealing with the illegal aliens for 2 years. It thus pays for itself quickly. It would be a good investment even if we had to replace it ever 2 years.
The wall is pocket change for the Mexican government. They can easily afford it.
The wall is not even pocket change for the US government. Using appropriate units for US government finances, the wall cost rounds to $0.
(Score: 3, Informative) by iadnah on Sunday October 21 2018, @08:39PM
I work for a "cross border warehousing" company, and I see this kind of thing a lot. There's an aspect I doubt many are familiar with, however.
We see a lot of "breakbulk" shipments. This is where a 1st leg shipper collects packages in China, applies USPS labels (or maybe UPS/Fedex) and then ships them freight to the US. Once it gets here a company like mine handles the customs clearance, opens the freight, and then takes all the packages to the post office. This is a lot of your "ships in 2-4 weeks" kind of stuff.
The thing about it is, US companies can typically only qualify for USPS Commercial Plus pricing. Think like, $2.66 for a 1oz package. The 1st leg shippers are getting prices closer to $2.00 for 1oz because of this treaty.
(Score: 2) by mendax on Sunday October 21 2018, @05:07AM (11 children)
Pulling out of the treaty at this time is probably premature. A better solution is to fix the treaty. Only if the treaty is not fixable should the US then pull out of it.
It's really quite a simple choice: Life, Death, or Los Angeles.
(Score: 3, Touché) by Rosco P. Coltrane on Sunday October 21 2018, @05:37AM (3 children)
You're a master of irony Sir. Well done.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Sunday October 21 2018, @10:23AM (2 children)
Yeah, I hate pulling out too.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 2) by Bot on Sunday October 21 2018, @02:19PM (1 child)
If you ain't finished in 144 years, pulling out is the better option. Congrats on your record.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Sunday October 21 2018, @04:22PM
No, man.... almost...there....just..........squeal like a PIGGY FOR ME!!!!......THA'S IT, THA'S IT....ALMOST THERE.....
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 5, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday October 21 2018, @12:26PM (5 children)
Which is exactly what is happening.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 21 2018, @05:02PM (4 children)
"Which is exactly what is happening."
Except that Trump is notorious for not actually "negotiating" so much as demanding one sided deals that cause more damage than good unless it's almost identical to what was originally there to begin with. Which is usually the end result after millions of lives, normally american, are thrown into turmoil.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Acabatag on Sunday October 21 2018, @05:17PM (2 children)
Taking one side and making demands is by definition the process of negotiating.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 22 2018, @05:52AM (1 child)
It's only negotiating when you're actually willing to meet the other person somewhere in the middle. If it's "Do what I want or nothing." (Trump's general approach) then it's not negotiating - it's an ultimatum.
(Score: 2) by SunTzuWarmaster on Monday October 22 2018, @01:21PM
Watch what he *says* and then what he *does*. The NAFTA thing is the best example. Even the NYT described it as "It’s a cosmetic change for an otherwise consequential set of revisions.". The were, what, 8 major changes in the agreement - mostly in the automotive and dairy industry sectors. It was mostly a fair deal (working for both parties for decades) that got tweaked.
This deal is over 100 years old, his opening words are "shred the whole thing" (the same opening words for NAFTA). The final solution is probably "China is consider a euro-equivalent partner, rather than an Africa-equivalent partner".
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 21 2018, @08:09PM
The only people whos lives are thrown into turmoil are those who reeeee anytime trump does or says something, ie his target audience.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 22 2018, @12:31AM
I can think of at least three times he should have pulled out prematurely.
(Score: 2, Troll) by Captival on Sunday October 21 2018, @05:24AM (8 children)
"How dare Trump disrupt these longstanding traditions that we've all become accustomed to!?"
--People Who Hate Conservatism
(Score: 5, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 21 2018, @07:02AM
Trump went non-postal. How about that.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 21 2018, @01:37PM (6 children)
Wait a second....
(Score: 5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 21 2018, @01:44PM (5 children)
Yeah, I know. It is because of dumbshits like him that we have Trump in the first place. They shamelessly flip their principles on a dime to conform to that idiot. Remember when their favorite slur was RHINO, or how Clinton must be impeached because if you cheat on your wife, how can you expect that he'd be true to the country? Yeah, good times . . .
(Score: 2) by Bot on Sunday October 21 2018, @02:22PM
> It is because of dumbshits like him that we have Trump in the first place. They shamelessly flip their principles on a dime to conform to that idiot.
This is what people do, especially when in partisan struggles. But, aren't we now fundamentally debating whether China is a poor 3rd world country? Looks like trumptards are in good company.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 21 2018, @04:05PM
Republican Hippopotamus In Name Only?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 21 2018, @05:41PM (2 children)
Sadly, cheating on your spouse is legal in DC. We never impeached him for that.
Lying under oath isn't legal however, even if being asked about cheating on your spouse. Clinton got impeached for that (which is a silly but valid excuse) and then got disbarred over it.
It would have been far more legitimate to impeach Clinton from accepting Chinese bribes in exchange for allowing the export of gyroscope technology used for ICBM navigation.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 21 2018, @05:45PM (1 child)
Unless your name is Kavanaugh.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by dry on Monday October 22 2018, @03:19AM
Actually, as long as you're on the same team.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 21 2018, @05:25AM (11 children)
144 year old treaty governed by the UN? I guess I have some reading to do before the summary makes any sense.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Sunday October 21 2018, @07:32AM (7 children)
Sounds kinda like, the treaties have been in place, and signed by the various nations for 114 years. Maybe the League of Nations had something to do with it, when it was around. So, then the UN got this hand-me-down that was around before them. That's the simplest reading that makes any sense.
(Score: -1, Insightful) by aristarchus on Sunday October 21 2018, @11:08AM (6 children)
My God, Runaway, you are stupid. I mean, at nearly Trump levels of stupid. Mail, one of the few responsibilities of the Federal Government deliniated in the Constitution, you ignorant slut!
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 21 2018, @01:39PM (1 child)
Look Aristarchus, I can see you're really upset about this. I honestly think you ought to sit down calmly, take a stress pill, and think things over.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by aristarchus on Monday October 22 2018, @06:21AM
Done, done, and done, and Runaway is still a useful tool of the Murdoch Murdering of Reason empire. To once again quote Hesiod:
Poor Runaway! Sometimes I envy him. To be so stupid that you never experience the pain of doubt, the realization of your own ignorance, or see how everyone else must see you. Truly, Runaway1956 is bliss.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Sunday October 21 2018, @02:12PM (3 children)
*sigh*
I'll type slowly, so you can keep up. The constitution says that the USPS is responsible for mail within the US of A. The constitution says nothing about international postal service. Well, sort of, indirectly, maybe - but the constitution certainly doesn't govern how other nations deal with the mail. So, sometime after the constitution was rat-ified, we signed onto some treaty(s) which obligate us to deliver mail sent from places abroad. That treaty, which the UN administers, is the subject of this discussion.
If necessary, I can type even slower - just let me know!
(Score: 5, Funny) by Bot on Sunday October 21 2018, @02:24PM (2 children)
Surely people here are wondering if you can stick to 10wpm? (words per millennium)
Account abandoned.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 21 2018, @03:02PM
Don't call me Surely.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 22 2018, @07:19AM
I can, sure, why not! I can go even slower. All my work each containing 1 million words that I will be writing in next million billion years is available only in cheap cheap price of $35.
(Score: 0, Troll) by jmorris on Sunday October 21 2018, @05:59PM (2 children)
Yup. This is how the #FakeNews get spun, good on ya for noticing. They conflate the U.N., a Parliament of Tyrants, with the old International Postal Union that was absorbed into the U.N. monster to make it look like Trump is the monster for breaking 144 year old agrements that are uncontroversial and "everybody" agrees with to set the Narrative right in the headline and first sentence. But it is a pretty safe bet the old treaties that originally set postal rates didn't allow some unelected bunch of Communists to implement a wealth redistribution scheme in the rate charts, to force "rich" countries to subsidize the shipping costs of "poor" countries and to decide that China! is still a "poor" country.
So yeah, pull outta the damned thing if they won't see reason. Personally I support the U.S. out of the U.N. and the U.N. out of the U.S. but apparently President Trump isn't quite as far right as I am. Alas. And guess what, by threatening to pull out he will get reform, exactly like he just demonstrated with NAFTA, while every "expert" bleated on TV and print that the "damned fool" was triggering a trade war, nobody wins a trade war and BUY F*CKING GOLD BECAUSE OMG!, THIS SHIT IS WHAT CAUSED THE GREAT DEPRESSION!!!! ELEVENTY!!! Result? They look like idiots, we got a new trade deal all three countries will benefit from and now China is worried.
When are people going to realize the public facing Trump is all Kayfabe? Just relax, don't get spun up by his tweets and enjoy the MAGA. Because you are getting it anyway, all six remaining years of it, and if you stay in this excited state the whole time ya gonna bust a blood vessel or something.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 21 2018, @06:10PM (1 child)
Nobody is as far right as you are.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by aristarchus on Monday October 22 2018, @06:56AM
But of course the inverse corollary is that no one is less right than jmorris, since he is so far right. Funny, that. Jmorris, pull my finger!
(Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 21 2018, @01:12PM (7 children)
China is just one of several countries that cries poor when it comes to being given money but then demands status as a first world nation at other times.
There is a country just north of here that spends so much on it's military that by per capita it rivals Russia. Yet, it cries poor when it comes to aid. How dare we cut aid to them when they need it so much? How about diverting millions from your Defence budget to essentials like housing and education? Nah.
China is either a third world country or it isn't. Given the amount of millionaires it has produced recently odds are that it isn't.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 21 2018, @01:44PM (2 children)
You must be in Mexico.
(Score: 2) by tekk on Sunday October 21 2018, @02:33PM
Pfft, we blow Russia's per-capita spending out of the water here. We only have 3x their population and spend more than 10x what they do :(
(Score: 1) by Acabatag on Sunday October 21 2018, @05:20PM
I was thinking Vietnam, but that would make his post circular and a little bit deceptive.
(Score: 3, Funny) by mcgrew on Sunday October 21 2018, @04:11PM (3 children)
I'd mod the foreigner up if he knew what an apostrophe was for, but I have a hard time modding up high school dropouts.
mcgrewbooks.com mcgrew.info nooze.org
(Score: 3, Disagree) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday October 21 2018, @10:04PM (2 children)
Most Americans would be better off dropping out their freshman year of high school. There is little to nothing of any practical use taught there for those who don't plan on continuing on to college, so four years spent gaining work experience or learning a trade would vastly improve their lives by comparison.
Also, apostrophes come way before high school.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 22 2018, @06:26PM (1 child)
Ah yes, who needs to learn about the history of their own country, the government structure, ethics and philosophy. Who needs to improve their critical reading/writing skills? Who needs to learn advanced math, what a waste you'll never use it in your daily life!
God DAMN you are the meat-head equivalent of tech.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday October 23 2018, @01:40AM
You say it with scorn but everything you noted is of little to no practical use to the average American except for the first two, which are taught before high school. Ethics and philosophy can be picked up just as well in church or with your drunken buddies, just like the fathers of ethics and philosophy came up with them in the first place.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 21 2018, @06:35PM
This has been going on for years, it's not just the USA and it could had been fixed time ago:
http://www.ecommercebytes.com/C/letters/blog.pl?/pl/2012/4/1334191984.html [ecommercebytes.com]
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9794971 [ycombinator.com] (translation of Norwegian news https://www.tek.no/artikler/guide-verdenspostkonvensjonen/157151?key=NGNvhkZx [www.tek.no] , 2014, mentions deal could have changed in 2016 and obviously did not)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/storyline/wp/2014/09/12/the-postal-service-is-losing-millions-a-year-to-help-you-buy-cheap-stuff-from-china/ [washingtonpost.com]
http://fortune.com/2015/03/11/united-nations-subsidy-chinese-shipping/ [fortune.com]
As you can see, the stupid expensive prices that post has in "wealthy"* countries is to compensate the work they do for "free", making internal or "wealthy to wealthy/anyone" insane. A fair system would be "internal shipping at start" + "country to country" + "internal shipping at end". No excuses, a computer, or even a small book of tables, is enough. Shipping one way or the inverse should be pretty much the same price.
*: small business trying to sell and stay alive are far from wealthy. If you ever followed a crowdfunding campaign for a boardgame, you know what I mean about the impact of shipping costs.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by realDonaldTrump on Sunday October 21 2018, @10:39PM
Believe me, folks, there are a LOT of them. Because for a long long time we had very corrupt leaders. Working very hard for the globalists. Not for our Country!
I've been tremendously successful in business. I have made billions of dollars making deals. Now I’m making our Country rich again. America has lost nearly-one third of its manufacturing jobs since 1997, following the enactment of disastrous trade deals supported by Bill and Crooked Hillary Clinton. I am turning our bad trade agreements into GREAT ones. Our horrible agreements with China and many others will be TOTALLY renegotiated. Not just Treaty of Bern. UPU. I renegotiated NAFTA to get a much better deal for America -- my USMCA. I canceled TPP. Canceled the horrible Iran Deal. I'm pulling out of the Paris Climate Scam. Pulling out of WTO. Canceling the IMF, the nuclear.
We love a good deal. Whoever wants to make a deal, talk to us. But we’ll WALK AWAY if we don’t get the deal that we want!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 22 2018, @01:49AM (2 children)
on a lot of stuff.
Occasionally she will win and has a closet full of stuff purchased, with free delivery from China for less than the price of a postcard. I've wondered how they get away with this. She even has a 1 penny pile of things that she got for 1 cent. Things like a box of bandages or soap. It's low quality stuff, but translates into tens of dollars she doesn't have to spend locally. It adds up.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 22 2018, @03:35AM (1 child)
Does she pay with PayPal? Don't they have a minimum transfer amount? (not sure of PayPal rules).
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 22 2018, @04:31AM
I assume she is, but will ask