from the youtube-dashcam-accidents-guaranteed-for-years-to-com dept.
Sunday Times Driving reports under 50% of surveyed UK drivers know what a roundabout sign looks like, and only 68% knew what the speed bump sign means.
The survey was conducted by the Institute of Advanced Motorists, with 1,000 participants.
Only 32% of drivers knew you should allow at least a two-second time gap to the vehicle ahead when driving on a dry open road. It appears many motorists are conflating this with two car lengths in distance, as 53% of those surveyed responded with that answer.
[...] Younger motorists were the most likely to answer incorrectly, with 17 to 39 year-olds having the lowest correct answer percentage rates in 14 of the 23 questions, but older drivers didn't do very well either.
The Sunday Times article has an embedded googleforms survey, so you can test your knowledge of UK road rules.
(Score: 5, Funny) by Bot on Monday October 22 2018, @08:36AM
They get cars with the wheel on the wrong side, roads with signs on the wrong side, easy to become confused about the rest too...
Account abandoned.
(Score: 2) by Nuke on Monday October 22 2018, @08:47AM (4 children)
I failed my first driving test "because I did not know what a roundabout sign looks like". It went like this :-
Q (examiner) : What does a sign with three arrows mean?
A (me) : Er .... A road with one lane in one direction and two lanes in the other (?) .... "
(Examiner) : No, a roundabout. Fail.
Ridiculous. I had known what a roundabout sign looked like from about the age of 5, but not from his vague verbal description. I have a hard time believing that 50% of UK drivers don't know a roundabout sign, I wonder how the question was put to them - perhaps I should read TFA.
(Score: 2) by isostatic on Monday October 22 2018, @10:02AM (2 children)
When was this? I assume this was in the practical?
(Score: 2) by Nuke on Monday October 22 2018, @11:57AM (1 child)
Some years ago, in the UK. The examiner sat with you around a route for 15-20 minutes, then when you stopped they asked half-a-dozen random questions on road rules and signs. I guess that when the examiners had not filled their quota of failures for the day, they pulled that one or similar out of their arses.
(Score: 3, Funny) by DannyB on Monday October 22 2018, @03:23PM
It shore is good 'dat in 'da US some states give you an open book written test. All you need is someone who can read and write to help take the test.
To transfer files: right-click on file, pick Copy. Unplug mouse, plug mouse into other computer. Right-click, paste.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by ledow on Monday October 22 2018, @03:05PM
Bearing in mind that I only started driving as an adult (30) and that I'd been driving for about 6 years on a learner's licence (with a qualified driver in the passenger seat at all time), and covered some 100,000 miles before I even started doing a test:
I failed a test for doing "only" 30mph on a 50mph narrow single carriageway with hairpin bends every few hundred metres. I hindered nobody (road was empty), was not a danger (hairpin bends were literally hairpin so anyone coming up behind had to be sensible anyway), there was zero visibility around said corners (hedgerows, etc.) and did not see the point of getting to 50 "just because I could" in between signposted hairpin bends.
I also failed another test because, when asked to stop and reverse into a gap (reverse parallel parking), I looked in my mirror... I indicated... I stopped parallel to the car in front of the space... I checked the mirror again... I selected reverse gear... I turned and looked behind... Some loony came out of nowhere from the end of the street behind me, so I did not try to move off until I knew what he was doing. In a quiet residential road (30mph limit), he literally didn't slow up for even a second - he zoomed up behind, went to overtake me (I was in a car that was indicating and had reversing lights, and L plates so it was obvious that I COULD have jutted out onto that side of the road at any moment if I'd started to turn) using the wrong-side of the road, mounted the pavement ON THE WRONG SIDE OF THE ROAD at about 40mph, as he went round me (there was plenty of room, he was just a pillock), then sped off.
The examiner guy later told me I failed at that point (even though he said nothing) because I should have abandoned the manoeuvre before he got to me, and I "made" him mount the pavement - in those 2 seconds it took for that guy to round a corner and decide to overtake a reverse-indicating learner driver by mounting the pavement on the wrong side of the road at 40mph.
Oh, and I failed a test because an passenger airbag light on the car I'd hired from an instructor SPECIFICALLY to do the test in was illuminated. The instructor who gave it to me had given me a lesson minutes previously, then let me use the car to do the test. They had hired the car as their normal one was being repaired. Someone who hired it previously had disabled the airbag because of using a child seat, and the light on the passenger side clearly said that it was merely disabled (not faulty) for that and there were instructions for re-enabling (put the key in a thing inside the passenger door). The examiner even knew the instructor but literally terminated the test immediately and walked away... I didn't even get a chance to re-enable the airbag. Cost the instructor £70 (I wasn't going to pay for it, it was their mistake!) for me to retake it, and I had to wait another month for another test.
After that, I literally ignored all the examiner/instructor bollocks as it appeared entirely random (one instructor tried to tell me that if I pulled the handbrake on such that it ratcheted, I would fail - they wanted me to hold the button in when pulling it up). I then passed on a test where I guarantee you that I rolled back from a roundabout while trying to move off to join the roundabout traffic, racheted the handbrake on every manoeuvre, went down at least one wrong road because I misheard the directions, and which was generally the worst I've ever driven in my life. I'd also like to point out that in that case, he was the most distracted examiner I've ever seen... barely looked at me throughout the drive, it was like driving a mate to work after you'd had a row... he looked out his side, I drove, occasionally he'd say "turn left here". That was it.
Strangely, EVERY SINGLE PERSON I know asks me to show their children how to drive, comments on how careful and smooth a drive it is with me, and how I can read the road. My only accident ever in the 10 years hence was a mild bump between two close traffic lights on a roundabout, at 10mph caused by an idiot cutting into a queue of traffic that he wanted to zip down the outside of to save a couple of car's worth of queuing. Damage to my car: £0. Damage to their car: £9000 of damage (apparently, so the car insurance said, but half of that was hire cars!). No dashcam or cameras around, and because "I'd hit him from behind", it was classed as my fault. I've had a dashcam in my car ever since.
Honestly... even assuming the urban myth of the "pass quotas" is bunk, passing a driving test is largely random and subjective. And they wouldn't allow cameras in the examined cars when tests are taking place, even for appeal basis, which I find incredibly telling. They know that they can't back up their reasoning in court. And without footage, any right to appeal is almost impossible to prove.
(Score: 2) by Nuke on Monday October 22 2018, @08:57AM
From the IAM link :
It applies to the people responsible for putting these signs up too, they are often wrong. One bad practice is to paint round (ie compulsory order) signs on rectangular backing boards, rectangualr being the convention for information signs such as tourist information and directions. A sign is often first seen in the distance as a silhouette, so you are less likely to pay attention to it if you first think it is only for info.
(Score: 4, Disagree) by Dr Spin on Monday October 22 2018, @09:03AM (20 children)
If they want us to have 2 seconds from the car in front, they will need 50% more road capacity. If I leave a gap of 2 secs between me and the car in front, it only takes another second before there is a car in it.
Half the problem is that reducing speed limits and closing off side roads has halved road capacity, which has the same effect as doubling the number of cars on the road.
The effect on pollution is even worse, as the traffic grinds to a halt causing pollution without actually moving at all.
I live in London - and the Mayor (Saddiq, Boris, and Ken) are the responsible idiots.
Warning: Opening your mouth may invalidate your brain!
(Score: 5, Insightful) by shrewdsheep on Monday October 22 2018, @09:24AM (12 children)
I challenge this opinion. Road capacity ist the product of vehicle density and average speed. I claim that road capacity is actually maximal at 2 second distance between cars, guaranteeing laminar flow. The lack of discipline of drivesrs, not heeding the 2 second rule, leads to drastic reduction in average speed (turbulent flow, a.k.a. stop and go).
(Score: 3, Informative) by isostatic on Monday October 22 2018, @09:38AM (10 children)
1 car every 2 seconds at 30mph is 1800 cars an hour
1 car every 1 second at 30mph is 3600 cars an hour
(Score: 4, Informative) by c0lo on Monday October 22 2018, @09:59AM (5 children)
That's the theory.
The practice shows that, with 30kph speed limit, at 1 second distance between cars, the actual speed drops to 20 kph.
Before Mythbusters the japanese replicated it [youtube.com]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 3, Touché) by isostatic on Monday October 22 2018, @10:12AM (3 children)
Assuming a car is 4m long, and the gap is measured from the back of the leading car to the front of the trailing car.
At 20kph (5.5m/second), and a 1 second gap, that's 9.5m for each car + gap, or 2105 cars an hour
At 30kph (8.3m/sec), and a 2 second gap, that's 20.7m for each car + gap, or 1450 cars an hour.
Therefore by your own figures, you get more cars on the road with a 1 second gap than a 2 second gap.
(Score: 5, Touché) by Phoenix666 on Monday October 22 2018, @01:18PM
In practice, merges cross everyone up. If you don't have a 2 second gap, people have trouble merging. When people have trouble merging, or changing lanes, they have to force their way in. Then everything jams up and cheaters want to jump in at the head of the line. Everything stops. So, yes, maybe you have more cars on the road, but none of them are moving.
It's far more efficient to keep adequate spacing. It's far less stressful if traffic moves at a constant speed, instead of stop-and-go.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by darkfeline on Monday October 22 2018, @02:03PM (1 child)
In theory, practice and theory are the same. In practice, they are different.
Crunching numbers like you're doing is a pointless exercise since you lack a model that was derived from actual observation of traffic flow.
Join the SDF Public Access UNIX System today!
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Tuesday October 23 2018, @05:24AM
As I was about to say, there speaks someone who has never driven in Los Angeles, where we think bumper-to-bumper at 70mph is normal, tho it scares the shit out of the uninitiated.
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Monday October 22 2018, @01:52PM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Nuke on Monday October 22 2018, @12:04PM (2 children)
No, because of dynamic instability. When cars are closer, someone slowing down slightly (for whatever reason, including a driver's inability to maintain a constant speed) causes the car behind to slow typically even more, and the effect can build up back along the line until at one point the traffic stops completely - long after the driver who triggered it all has gone on, and got home. I used to watch this happen when I lived on a high floor overlooking a busy road leading into a city.
(Score: 2) by mhajicek on Monday October 22 2018, @02:27PM (1 child)
Around here people typically drive 80mph with about a half second following distance. How does that affect your numbers?
The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 23 2018, @12:23AM
It's usually fine until one of them arse ends the guy in front and the entire lane is out of commission turning the freeway into a giant parking lot.
(Score: 1) by nitehawk214 on Monday October 22 2018, @06:05PM
1 care every 1 second at 30mph on a highway is probably going to cause people to constantly slam on the brakes causing pressure wave traffic jams.
"Don't you ever miss the days when you used to be nostalgic?" -Loiosh
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Dr Spin on Monday October 22 2018, @09:33PM
Road capacity ist the product of vehicle density and average speed. I claim that road capacity is actually maximal at 2 second distance between cars, guaranteeing laminar flow. The lack of discipline of drivesrs, not heeding the 2 second rule, leads to drastic reduction in average speed (turbulent flow, a.k.a. stop and go).
I am claiming that there are two problems here:
1) lack if discipline (or possibly sanity) is fairly common amongst drivers
2) as a driver, I do not have the ability to maintain a 2 second separation, because if I create a two second separation, someone fills it, because he would prefer a one second separation between himself and me to the 0.7 second separation he had between himself and the other cars in the lane he was previously in.
The fact is that vast amounts of road capacity have been removed by "traffic calming" measures (which mostly appear likely to incite road rage) means the result of dividing the length of the road by the total number of cars on the road does not leave much distance to spare.
If my journey takes 10 minutes, then I use the road for ten minutes. If I (and all other road users) am slowed till my journey takes 20 minutes, then there will be twice as many cars on the road if they all attempt to make the same journey at the same time.
If you wish to travel along the Lea Bridge Road in the rush hour (previously 30MPH limit), you would have done well to average 20 MPH. Now it has a limit of 20MPH, you will be passed by heavily pregnant women pushing push chairs through the pollution. I have no doubt that someone thinks this is an improvement in our standard of living, but who ever he is, he does not go down the Lea Bridge Road on foot, in a car or on a bus. (Maybe he is confined to a mental hospital - I do not know). Perhaps he is one of the bikers who do 50MPH on the wrong side of the road?
Disclaimer: I have a Freedom pass, and and therefore use the bus - unless it is quicker to walk - which it mostly is in the "rush hour".
Warning: Opening your mouth may invalidate your brain!
(Score: 2) by isostatic on Monday October 22 2018, @09:41AM
If they want us to have 2 seconds from the car in front, they will need 50% more road capacity. If I leave a gap of 2 secs between me and the car in front, it only takes another second before there is a car in it.
And where does that car come from?
If you have 3 motorway lanes at the usual 50-60mph in heavy traffic, and someone pulls into your lane, that just leaves a gap in the other lanes. Eventually that person will pull out and you'll be back to where you stated.
It's really unintuitive, but traffic is. http://www.smartmotorist.com/traffic-and-safety-guideline/traffic-jams.html [smartmotorist.com] for some interesting views.
(Score: 2) by MostCynical on Monday October 22 2018, @10:09AM (5 children)
Half a second to notice, half a second to fail to react fast enough, and to say "oh, sh.." while ploughing into a stopped car in front..
Here, have some online reaction tests:
online reaction test [justpark.com]
One Australian state's pratice test [nsw.gov.au]
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 22 2018, @12:39PM (1 child)
thank you for the online reaction test thing.
I had 3 tries.
First one got me 72.
Second got me 28.
Third one they said "we're not sure you're human".
I'll be expecting my driver's license in the mail now...
(Score: 2) by dry on Tuesday October 23 2018, @05:30AM
I got an offer to safe a swf file.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Monday October 22 2018, @06:22PM (1 child)
If you are a second behind a stopped car, and you're not already swerving, stopping or stopped, you shouldn't be on the road.
I tend to leave more distance between me and the car in front, if they block my view (fucking SUVs and pickups) or if they can stop much faster than me (sports cars). Being 1 second behind an 80000 lbs truck is stupid, but it's a lot safer than 1s behind an empty F150.
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Tuesday October 23 2018, @05:31AM
Unless you've got superbrakes like they put on the F350. I've been quite shocked at how fast that durn thing can stop (way faster than my old F100). As discovered when some fuckwit pulled out in front of me and I had to go from 30 to zero in half a second to avoid T-boning him, however richly deserved.
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 23 2018, @05:25PM
It keeps saying I'm not human if I use the keyboard... I suspect my reflexes are about average for a healthy person and the real reason is most people use crap hardware (high latency monitors and input devices).
(Score: 2) by MostCynical on Monday October 22 2018, @09:14AM
Here is a link to a page all about the signs (there is even an app, just for signs!)
https://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/signs-and-signals.html [highwaycodeuk.co.uk]
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 22 2018, @09:16AM (2 children)
Now we know why the Brexit is going so swimmingly. May government could not read the roadsigns. Or for that matter, any signs. And Nigel Falange is an alt-right catamite.
(Score: 2) by MostCynical on Monday October 22 2018, @09:18AM (1 child)
"Keep right if you think Brexit will keep dark-skinned people out of the UK"
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 3, Funny) by isostatic on Monday October 22 2018, @10:07AM
"Keep right if you think Brexit will keep dark-skinned people out of the UK"
*Far* right.
Also yell abuse at little old black ladies. Complain about them speaking a foreign language. As a British gammon. On an Irish Plane. Flying from Barcelona.
(Score: 1) by pTamok on Monday October 22 2018, @10:59AM (1 child)
I just tried the test, and have no quibbles with most of the answers I got wrong, but I would say one of the quiz questions is incorrect:
You can park on the right-hand side of a road at night:
1 in a one-way street
2 with your sidelights on
3 more than 10 metres (32 feet) from a junction
4 under a lamp-post
It claims the correct answer is (1). However, the answer is (3), because the question does not state in which direction your car is facing (with or against traffic flow). (3) applies at all times (day and night), whereas you can park either side of a road at night, so long as your car is facing in the same direction as the traffic flows on that side of the road.
Also the sign which is named 'T-junction with priority over vehicles from the right' is a misnomer. If you examine the painted road markings, there are no solid or dashed lines across the carriageway when you are on the priority route, which means that from your point of view it is not a T-junction. It is actually 'just' a junction where a minor road joins a major road on a (very) sharp bend - there also exists a separate sign for a junction on a less sharp bend as well. The geometry of the road layout might make it look like a 'T'-junction, but the road markings (not the signage) are unambiguous in showing that it is not a 'T'-junction from the point of view of the driver who sees this sign. It's actually quite a dangerous road-layout, as many drivers will exit the minor road onto the major road without looking. You could argue the sign is warning you about this - but then it really ought to be called 'Warning - possibility of inattentive drivers coming from the right'.
The answer I did not know was the not driving in the right-hand lane of a motorway with a small trailer. My excuse is that I don't drive with a trailer, and if I did, I would have read up on the applicable restrictions. I've certainly seen that rule broken often. But, as they say, ignorance of the law is no defence.
(Score: 2) by theluggage on Monday October 22 2018, @12:29PM
I think the question makes the reasonable assumption that "right-hand side" means your right when you are driving forwards on the traditional side of the road.
Of course the realistic answer is "if in doubt, don't" - because you don't make good drivers by trying to get people to memorise all the possible mistakes they could make for a one-off multiple choice test. Plenty of stupid, dangerous places to park that aren't listed in the code, loads of situations in which driving at 2mph below the posted speed limit is dangerous... Memorising lots of simplistic rules leads to the illusion that, if there isn't a rule against it, it must be OK.
If a large percentage of people can't remember the pages and pages of the Highway Code then the solution is to make the Highway Code fit on one sheet of paper. There's probably half-a-dozen road signs that you really, really need to know as long as you treat everything else as "red triangle with exclamation mark".
Well, that's if we're talking about a world in which the vast majority of adults are expected to drive cars - rather than one in which only professional drivers with a level of training higher than airline pilots (because there's more things to hit on a road than at 30,000 feet) are allowed to take charge of a ton of metal hurtling along at 70mph.
(Score: 1) by NateMich on Monday October 22 2018, @11:15AM (10 children)
I'd watch out for all the horses that probably fit on a dual carriageway, just before emerging from my shell.
Sorry, the British English is distracting, but still, just because you can't recognize the description of a sign doesn't mean you don't know how to drive.
(Score: 1) by NateMich on Monday October 22 2018, @11:29AM (9 children)
Wow, and every question was like this. I had to practically translate everything they were saying.
emerging = merging (I guess)
overtaking = passing
dip in the road = I assume they meant a hill
dazzling = blinding
For the level crossing, I have no fucking idea, because our railroad crossings don't look like that.
The question about visibility is idiotic, because you're assuming everyone can tell precisely how much the visibility is reduced, which I highly doubt. California had bad questions like this on their test too.
I'm never driving in Britain, because I'll die. Also, I failed the test really badly because I couldn't determine what things like a "central reservation" were, so they probably wouldn't let me.
(Score: 5, Funny) by theluggage on Monday October 22 2018, @12:00PM (1 child)
Well, the US terminology would be just as bad for someone used to British English. I mean, neither "hood" nor "bonnet" exactly scream "the door that covers the engine".
Even for us British it can be pretty heavy going because the whole Highway Code is riddled with words that nobody uses in everyday conversation. Although they've tried their best to cut out the legal heretoforenaftery, give a bureaucrat a sheet of paper and a pencil and there's only one way they know how to behave...
Just to answer your questions:
Emerging: The act of installing packages on Gentoo Liinux.
Overtaking: Midwifery/Pre-natal care (opposite of "Undertaking")
Dip: Chemical mixture used to combat lice and ticks in sheep.
Dazzling: Throwing soap powder in someone's eyes. See also "Dip, don't Dazzle" (newly de-loused sheep can be blindingly bright)
Central Reservation: The Peak District National Park [wikipedia.org] - although in searching Wikipedia I found that it could have something to do with bubonic plague in China [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 1) by NateMich on Monday October 22 2018, @01:23PM
And to be fair, the terms aren't all the same in the US either. For example, Google tells me which exit to take on a roundabout, but refers to it as a "traffic circle".
That sounds like just a minor thing, except that in my state we still have a few traffic circles too, which are not the same thing and do not follow the same rules.
(Score: 2) by ledow on Monday October 22 2018, @02:30PM (1 child)
And as with all things US... I can always infer the meaning of your ridiculous words, why can't you infer the meaning of other English words just because they are unusual to you they aren't non-existent.
Emerging - if you're emerging onto a road, what does that suggest? Yes, sticking out into it until you're part of it. "Merging" is when two lots of traffic merge together. That's kind of the same but not quite. This is about joining an established road, e.g from a slip road onto a motorway (highway).
Overtaking - have you seriously never heard this word? It's when you go past someone who's going slower.
Dip in the road - it's where the road... dips. Like when you come to a bottom of a valley from the top of a hill, you will have limited visibility as there could be an object in the road just over the hill, inside the dip, so you should slow (but general rule: Drive to what you can see... can't see over the dip? Pretend it's a solid object and adjust your speed accordingly as it appears/disappears).
Dazzling - If something dazzles you... it doesn't blind you, it just makes it hard to look at it because it's so... dazzling... and bright.
Central reservation - the bit down the middle of the road on a dual carriageway (literally... a path along which things move, with two ways on it... but specifically "more than two lanes each side separated by a central reservation"). You call it a median. Which is a mathematical term that I've never used outside of mathematical concepts, and means "in the middle-ish". I understand what you mean when you say median, why can't you infer what's meant by central reservation (the bit in the centre that's reserved?).
Just wait until you hear about our "hard shoulders".
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Monday October 22 2018, @04:03PM
I think you just accidentally admitted that American English is more intuitively obvious than British English
Tannoy snog boot bloke sodding knackered bloody
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 2) by deimtee on Monday October 22 2018, @03:10PM (1 child)
Not sure about the UK, but in AU Overtaking is when you go past someone going in the same direction, Passing is going past someone going the opposite direction.
There are some roads with narrow bridges or sections where only one car can fit, and they have "No Passing" signs. Second car to get there has to wait for the first one to clear it.
"No Overtaking" is a lot more common, and is usually a safety measure due to obstructed view or roadworks rather than physical inability to pass.
If you cough while drinking cheap red wine it really cleans out your sinuses.
(Score: 2) by captain normal on Monday October 22 2018, @08:07PM
But you blokes in Oz drive on the wrong side of the road too. Though to be fair your spoken English is easier to comprehend than Cockney or Scottish English.
When life isn't going right, go left.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Monday October 22 2018, @06:34PM (2 children)
> I'm never driving in Britain, because I'll die.
US drivers should by default not be allowed on any foreign city road, except maybe in Canada, the Nordic Countries, and the Vatican.
I've driven enough in Asia and Southern Europe to know that the mix of aggressive driving, interesting rules (not being followed by the locals), and exotic road topologies, is too much for all but a few Chicago/NY pothole slalom specialists.
(Score: 2) by Dr Spin on Monday October 22 2018, @09:41PM
US drivers should by default not be allowed on any foreign city road, except maybe in Canada, the Nordic Countries, and the Vatican.
US drivers should certainly not be allowed in the Vatican (at least not while in motor vehicles) unless they speak fluent Italian and are confirmed
Catholics AND SOMEONE ELSE IS DRIVING.
Warning: Opening your mouth may invalidate your brain!
(Score: 2) by dry on Tuesday October 23 2018, @05:39AM
Here in Canada, sometimes hear about an American who crosses the border, sees the speed sign that says 100 and goes a 100mph and wonders why they got a ticket or their car impounded. They also get really confused by the distance signs and such.
(Score: 2) by Zinho on Monday October 22 2018, @12:04PM (10 children)
For the question:
the answer appears to assume different functionality on the car lights than I'm used to in the U.S. of A. Rest of this post will be in spoiler tags in case people want to take the quiz unhelped.
"Space Exploration is not endless circles in low earth orbit." -Buzz Aldrin
(Score: 2) by Nuke on Monday October 22 2018, @12:19PM (8 children)
British cars do not generally (AFAIK) have the brake lights come on with the handbrake (which I believe in the USA is called the "emergency" or "parking" brake). Mind you, with most cars having their brake lights on in traffic jams, sometimes for 10 minutes or more) I do wonder. I did once however drive a hired Ford Transit van that was arranged that way.
(Score: 2) by Zinho on Monday October 22 2018, @01:04PM (7 children)
That seems unsafe to me; I can foresee this practice leading to rear end collisions as dazzled [oxforddictionaries.com] drivers to the rear start moving forward, thinking that the car in front of them is moving now that the brake lights have shut off. Perhaps this is balanced by British drivers being more cautious than my neighbors...
"Space Exploration is not endless circles in low earth orbit." -Buzz Aldrin
(Score: 1) by NateMich on Monday October 22 2018, @01:28PM
I wonder about that too, but I'd assume that nobody bothers pulling the parking brake on the road for no reason anyway.
If you're dazzeled by their fabulous brake lights, you probably have overly sensitive eyes and shouldn't be driving.
(Score: 2) by kazzie on Monday October 22 2018, @02:52PM (5 children)
In my experience, when the brake lights go out, it's generally pretty self-evident if the vehicle is stationary or accelerating. Moreso if the vehicle is part of a queue of traffic.
It's also worth bearing in mind that the vast majority of UK cars use a manual transmission/gearbox. Automatics may automatically engage the clutch as you release the footbrake, but in a manual pulling off from being stationary you'd generally want to swap the foot brake for the handbrake to leave your left foot free to operate the clutch. (One can short-cut this with a level or assisting gradient if you're quick, but the taught method is to use the hand brake.)
(Score: 2) by Zinho on Monday October 22 2018, @03:24PM (4 children)
Agreed, unless it's dark, the driver behind is partially blind from the dazzling brake lights in front, and also an idiot. That last one seems unfortunately too common [1], and is the direct cause of most traffic accidents.
I'm unsure what your point is here. You seem to be saying that most UK drivers are in the habit of using the handbrake when accelerating from a stop, so other UK drivers don't expect to see tail lights turning off as a signal that a car is about to move?
Also, are you suggesting that there's an appropriate time to use the left foot on the brake when driving a manual transmission car?
Both of those would indicate very different driving cultures between the two sides of the Pond. My use of the hand brake instead of heel/toe braking to accelerate from a stop was cited as the primary reason why I failed my first driving test; the evaluator suggested I learn to operate my vehicle properly and get more practice before retesting.
[1] Also, anyone can be an idiot; see the relevant research presented by Bill Engvall. [wikipedia.org]
"Space Exploration is not endless circles in low earth orbit." -Buzz Aldrin
(Score: 3, Informative) by kazzie on Monday October 22 2018, @07:20PM (3 children)
Sorry, I should have said "swap brake for accelerator" (with the associated task of bringing the clutch up to biting point) before moving off. Left-foot braking is not commonplace.
Driving test examiners here will definitely expect you to apply the hand brake if you come to a complete stop for more than a few seconds, which is in keeping with the advice on not blinding drivers behind you. People who've long since passed their test are often more lax in this, and keep the footbrake engaged until they're ready to move off (or their foot gets tired). Even then, they may apply the handbrake to start moving off, or just release the brake and then engage the clutch on a rolling start, according to the road and their personal style.
So in summary, you'll find some cars whose brake lights extinguish within seconds of stopping, others that stay lit until a few seconds before they move off, and others that'll start rolling as soon as they go out. As a result UK drivers can't take the lights going out as a sure sign that the car in front is about to move.
(Score: 2) by Zinho on Monday October 22 2018, @07:50PM (2 children)
Thanks for the clarification, I'm going to file that away. There's a remote chance I'll be driving those roads someday (I've got family near Leeds), so that info may come in useful.
I'd heard that "hillclimber clutch" was a thing in Europe, where the brake would stay engaged after you take your foot off until the driver raises the clutch. Is that common, or is it just a feature on the high-end cars? reference [wikipedia.org]
Thinking about it, though, it wouldn't be much use in a traffic jam unless it was also aware of which gear was selected (i.e. neutral vs 1st); otherwise the driver would need to keep holding the clutch in, which is worse than holding the brake for long periods at a stop (excess wear on thrust bearing is bad). The hand brake is a better solution for idling at a stop.
"Space Exploration is not endless circles in low earth orbit." -Buzz Aldrin
(Score: 2) by kazzie on Tuesday October 23 2018, @04:03AM
I'm not familiar with such a feature on UK cars, but my current car is older than most of the table on that linked page. I think it's still an upmarket extra here.
The linked page describes having to hold the clutch fully in to keep the brake engaged, so it's of limited use idling in traffic.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 24 2018, @10:42PM
I've never come across that specific feature in any cars I've driven in the UK. Some newer cars have an electronic hand-brake, and that may automatically hold the car stationary after a complete stop, although the ones I've used release on application of the accelerator not raising the clutch.
(Score: 1) by nitehawk214 on Monday October 22 2018, @04:12PM
And it wouldn't be a problem if cars wouldn't have those fucking LED brakelights with nearly no diffusion on them.
"Don't you ever miss the days when you used to be nostalgic?" -Loiosh
(Score: 1) by jjr on Monday October 22 2018, @12:27PM (5 children)
I don't know in the UK, but here in most big cities in Spain, most drivers have forgotten what turning signals are for.
(Score: 4, Funny) by DannyB on Monday October 22 2018, @03:30PM (2 children)
Maybe large numbers of cars have defective turn signals?
This is a known technical problem in the US with certain brands, such as BMWs.
To transfer files: right-click on file, pick Copy. Unplug mouse, plug mouse into other computer. Right-click, paste.
(Score: 2) by dry on Tuesday October 23 2018, @05:49AM
They just keep forgetting to refill the blinker fluid.
(Score: 1) by jjr on Tuesday October 23 2018, @12:07PM
When somebody doesn't use them I usually say "hey, they got a cheaper version of the car because it came without blinkers"
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 22 2018, @05:05PM
I can at least understand the "I'm too stupid*/lazy/inconsiderate to bother moving that signal lever". I don't agree, obviously, but at least I can see where it's coming from.
What I really don't get is people that start signalling after they started turning?. You were too stupid/lazy/inconsiderate to signal before, you've already put on the breaks, your tires have started turning, your vehicle has moved started moving into a turn, it's (bloody) obvious your turning, and your actually busy turning (well hopefully, handling the steering wheel and paying closer attention to what's going on around you), now's a good time to signal!?. WTF.
*stupid: in this case, just because it's both trivially easy and safer to signal, and not just other people's safety (inconsiderate bastard), but also their own (stupid bastards :) ).
(Score: 2) by rleigh on Monday October 22 2018, @07:21PM
At least in the UK, it appears that BMW and Audi cars don't come with signal lights.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 22 2018, @01:20PM
So people who don't care about privacy lack knowledge? Say it ain't so!
(Score: 3, Informative) by ledow on Monday October 22 2018, @02:19PM (6 children)
Car length is, was and always will be a ridiculous measure of safe distance.
You can't judge it. You can't judge it at speed. It's not fixed (two Smart cars are much less than 2 huge estate cars). And you can't imagine it.
You need something that automatically adjusts according to your speed, and is a set distance... which leaves you only time to get the right units for it.
And 2 seconds is EASY to measure... wait for a car ahead to pass some landmark object, count 1, 2 in your head. Chances are you'll underestimate EXACTLY as you need to do to err on the side of caution. I mean, if only someone could come up with some simple rhyme that takes exactly 2 seconds to say... Only a FOOL...
Seriously, fuck car lengths, remove them from the Highway Code, it's ridiculous. And making you memorise a table of "safe" distances for each speed is even more ridiculous.
Two seconds. Double it in wet weather. Multiply by ten in snow/ice. Easy to do, easy to remember, easy to check while you're driving, adjusts to your speed.
(Score: 2) by mhajicek on Monday October 22 2018, @02:41PM (4 children)
And then you'll sit still as traffic flows around you and cuts in half a second ahead of you. People here drive 80mph with half a second following distance, and will cut in if you leave a second. This increases to about two seconds in a blizzard.
The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
(Score: 3, Interesting) by ledow on Monday October 22 2018, @03:23PM (3 children)
1) No, I don't.
2) Fuck 'em if they do. So long as I have my two seconds, I really don't care about them.
P.S. I drive a lot, I drive around London and European capitals (some of the worst!), I drove motorways and side roads. I don't have a problem. I assure you the roads are much worse than any US highway.
Mainly because you can't do 80mph (limit is 70mph). Mainly because there are speed cameras everywhere (and people have learned that there's no point slamming your brakes on for every one as they are almost all "average" speed cameras nowadays). Mainly because when you do 70mph, the only idiots that don't know what's going on are middle-lane-hoggers who have a mile of empty road both in front of them, and in the lane they SHOULD be in anyway. Everyone else has a reasonable distance.
Hell, we even paint the suggested distance on the floor on some motorways - little chevrons every few hundred yards with signs saying to make sure you leave that much gap. Everyone (generally) does just that on those stretches and there's *no slowdown* when they do join or leave those parts with the painted chevrons. Everyone tends to have that kind of gap anyway.
You drive like an idiot "because everyone else does". See how far it gets you when you smash into someone. My 2 seconds is for me... cut into it and I hit you because of that and my insurance company will be having a word (with the aid of a dashcam). All the "tricks" that used to work to let you be a moron before we had dashcams don't work now that we have them.
And my local police force take dashcam footage and have been known to prosecute everything from badly-chosen overtaking spots to exactly this kind of cutting-in.
2 seconds is actually *nothing*. In a blizzard, you're a damn moron. If they cut in front of me, I'll brake to get my 2+ seconds back every time. Because 2 seconds is a tiny short amount of distance, and the absolute minimum.
(Score: 2) by mhajicek on Tuesday October 23 2018, @02:26PM
Yeah, as I said, do that here and you'll be sitting still. It simply doesn't work here. Try it and you're a damn moron.
The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 25 2018, @10:59AM (1 child)
Are you sure you drive around London. Average speed check cameras aren't that common, and only feature on UK motorways where there are roadworks. And very few drivers in the UK leave a 2 second gap. Distance keeping does tend to improve where the chevons are painted on the motorways, but I still always see some drivers ignoring them. Although the speed limit on motorways is 70mph people frequently go faster, drivers going 80mph isn't uncommon, I even see drivers going 100+mph every now and then. Speed cameras on motorways aren't that frequent and fairly easy to spot given that they are painted bright yellow.
(Score: 2) by ledow on Thursday October 25 2018, @11:46AM
You do know the west side of the M25 is an average speed check road? Plus almost the entirety of the South / South West M25 from the Dartford Tunnel onwards round to Gatwick. And things like the M3 are covered in spot-check cameras bolted to the uprights of the signs and walkways? All kinds of average speed cameras, outside of any roadworks, and literally THOUSANDS of spot-check cameras. Even the websites that list them don't have even half of them, and my CoPilot app has some stupendous number of cameras listed and still isn't up-to-date with what's actually on the road.
I've lived in (Greater) London all my life. The majority of drivers are actually not too bad on the motorways. Compared to Europe (with the exception of Germany, where people are ultra careful on motorways), we're positively amazing. But circle the M25 once - what's that? 100 miles? and I guarantee you'll hit all kinds of average camera tracts and dozens if not hundreds of speed cameras - at least 25% of your journey around, if not more is average-camerad. Of course people do stupid things - now watch the speeds between the M5 and M3... where everyone does 70 exactly on the cruise control because they know what's there. What UK drivers do not understand is lanes on motorways, but you don't tend to get stupendous speed-nutters any more because of this stuff.
The beauty of the average camera - they only need to see you at ANY TWO POINTS to get you for consistent speeding. Those two points could be on different roads entirely, 100 miles apart, or on adjacent street poles.
Modern ones don't even flash, aren't that visible (little very-rectangular box on the motorway signs for the M3, for instance), and don't really care what speed you hit *them* at, so much as the time between them and the last camera you flagged on.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Monday October 22 2018, @07:47PM
I went to an insurance-sponsored driving class, where they have slick wet roads and cars with slippery back tires, and you learn to recover from skids at 40km/h.
Lots of fun.
First question when we came in was "how far is this sign?".
Answer I gave was "why do you care?".
The guy said "It's important to know whether it's 80m or 120m away"
and I said "no it's not. The question is always how long before you hit it, whether you drive a bike or fly a plane at mach 2. That's what the brain knows."
I broke his script.
(Score: 1) by nitehawk214 on Monday October 22 2018, @04:04PM
For this reason:
https://roundaboutbeer.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/cropped-cropped-Roundabout-Brewery-the-one2.jpg [roundaboutbeer.com]
Of course, in the US the signs are usually yellow and the arrows go the other way.
https://us.123rf.com/450wm/jojoo64/jojoo641503/jojoo64150300264/37324853-us-road-warning-sign-traffic-circle-roundabout-ahead.jpg [123rf.com]
"Don't you ever miss the days when you used to be nostalgic?" -Loiosh
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Monday October 22 2018, @04:17PM (2 children)
But pulling these two out as the first examples of driver crappiness struck me as odd. These signs are just making sure you're notified in advance of things that you should already be able to notice and properly react to on your own.
At least, in my corner of the U.S. speed bumps are usually painted yellow and/or generally not on major streets where you'd get surprised by them. You shouldn't be tearing around parking lots at a speed that hitting a speedbump unawares would do much damage to your car in the first place.
Is it 2 seconds now? I was taught 4 circa 2002.
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 23 2018, @12:57AM (1 child)
It was two seconds 50 years ago, then went to 3 and later 4 seconds when the various Nanny States decided that people were too stupid to use their brain and increase the value for low visibility/wet/etc conditions. It's like speed limits are fixed values, so if it's a wet night in poor conditions you'd normally slow down. But, speed cameras don't work like that, so no problems we'll lower speed limit for the worst case. Then in broad daylight at 6am on a summer weekend when there is visibility for miles and the road is grippy, the revenue camera can book you for doing the road's 'natural' speed of 50 when the sign and camera are set to 35.
They worked out that more than 2 seconds is basically impossible to achieve in the crowded high traffic roads that is common these days. So they brought it down to 2 seconds. Meanwhile, clowns decide that half a car length at 70 mph is more than enough - and besides it saves fuel to sit right up someone's arse in their slipstream.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 23 2018, @05:33PM
For example, if you expect drivers to leave a 4 second gap then your yellow lights should never be shorter than 4 seconds.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 22 2018, @06:04PM (1 child)
Many X Have 'Shocking' Lack Of Y
(Score: 3, Touché) by Dr Spin on Monday October 22 2018, @09:48PM
Many X Have 'Shocking' Lack Of Y
Except in the case where Y is "clickbait".
Warning: Opening your mouth may invalidate your brain!
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Sulla on Tuesday October 23 2018, @12:04AM
I have taken the Alaska-Canada highway a number of times and have come to the conclusion that in northern Canada they farm out road sign production to jobless art students with the instruction to give them an abstract vision of what they think various warnings could be.
Driving around a corner there is a cliff to your left and a rock wall to the right, the sign depicts this and has a big X through the vehicle driving in the right lane (I presume this is supposed to be you, the driver). Is this an abstract image telling me not to drive around this corner? Not to get too close to the rock wall? Possible rocks falling?
MANY SUCH CASES
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam