posted by
Fnord666
on Saturday September 14 2019, @10:36AM
from the at-least-it's-not-a-meat-dress dept.
from the at-least-it's-not-a-meat-dress dept.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49550263
It's a short article describing the strange materials people are experimenting with to make clothing. There is mushrooms, pineapple, PVC, and others. It's light on details (maybe there are other better articles with more technical information), but I thought it was interesting and worth sharing and discussing.
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The Bizarre Fabrics That Fashion is Betting On
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(Score: 4, Disagree) by bradley13 on Saturday September 14 2019, @11:11AM (13 children)
Artificial leather products, well, I don't really see the point. Leather is a fine material, and most of it is discarded anyway. Why not use it?
Maybe more interesting is the idea of a natural material that can compete with cotton. TFA is light on details, but the main competitor they mention is Tencel, which is made from cellulose. What TFA omits is that Tencel is specifically made from the pulp of the Eucalyptus tree. Why, I'm not sure, but this at least focuses the question: what is environmentally: a Eucalyptus plantation or a cotton plantation?
One article notes it's "difficult to be definitive" when calling Tencel more sustainable than cotton, especially because Tencel production is "an extremely minuscule fraction" of cotton production today. And more research needs to be done through the conversion and dying processes. Despite the award-winning closed-loop system, these steps can't avoid harsh chemicals. [businessinsider.com]
Everyone is somebody else's weirdo.
(Score: 2) by MostCynical on Saturday September 14 2019, @11:35AM (1 child)
No one seems to agree on how much water cotton uses - 11,000 [textileexchange.org] or 20,000 litres per kg [worldwildlife.org] or just lots [theguardian.com] and lots [triplepundit.com]
Cotton growers suggest not that much [cottoninc.com], but provide no absolute figures, or, lots of figures [cottonaustralia.com.au], but no number per kg.
On the other hand, Eucalypts love water [researchgate.net], even before any parts are processed into fabric.
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Saturday September 14 2019, @03:59PM
Who cares how much water goes into growing cotton? It all returns to the environment. If the cotton growers can grow their crop economically by pumping lots of water, then great. If they can't, then they should switch to something else.
Personally, I hate cotton. Every time I wear it I feel like I'm choking. I'd much prefer to wear clothing made exclusively from bamboo fiber, or carbon fiber, but those are still too expensive and not widely used.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 3, Flamebait) by looorg on Saturday September 14 2019, @11:43AM (2 children)
For most of us that isn't an issue, leather is nice and useful. But then there is that angst ridden segment of the market that is "all about the animals" (Vegetarian extremists of various kinds) and such that wouldn't want to be caught dead in a leather jacket or clothing made out of leather in general. Then we have the people who has a God that tells them that it's bad, so they are out to -- Muslims wearing pig leather, Hindus wearing cow ... the list probably goes on like this. So I guess it's for them, but then more leather for the rest of us so I'm fine with that.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Saturday September 14 2019, @04:02PM (1 child)
I agree, leather is a fine material. You can make it from lots of animals, too. To not use it would be wasting a significant part of the animal. If a cow is going to be slaughtered for meat wouldn't we rather every part of it be used?
Also, you can't really do Steampunk without leather. God help the prisses who try to take Steampunk from us!
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by acid andy on Saturday September 14 2019, @06:56PM
Ethically, this is the part I have a problem with. I have no wish to support nor create demand for that happening in the first place. Somehow I doubt tanners get their hides for free from the meat industry. Happy to be proven wrong with a citation though.
If a cat has kittens, does a rat have rittens, a bat bittens and a mat mittens?
(Score: 4, Insightful) by FatPhil on Saturday September 14 2019, @07:50PM (7 children)
On the other hand, if you use something natural then the pseudohippies will complain about how much water the plantmatter took to grow until it was harvestable, or the fact that you've just used some bits of dead animal.
You simply can't win.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by acid andy on Saturday September 14 2019, @08:18PM (3 children)
The way to win is with a lower global birth rate. Once the population stabilizes at a saner level, plant based materials will be a realistic option without trashing the world's ecosystems.
If a cat has kittens, does a rat have rittens, a bat bittens and a mat mittens?
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Sunday September 15 2019, @06:36PM (2 children)
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 15 2019, @07:57PM (1 child)
There. FTFY.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Monday September 16 2019, @05:38AM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by acid andy on Saturday September 14 2019, @08:21PM (1 child)
By the way, what differentiates a real hippie from a pseudohippie? And which of those things, if any, would a real hippie complain about?
If a cat has kittens, does a rat have rittens, a bat bittens and a mat mittens?
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Sunday September 15 2019, @06:36PM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 3, Touché) by captain normal on Saturday September 14 2019, @10:30PM
There you go, we should all just run around naked. That would really put the Fashion Industry out.
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts"- --Daniel Patrick Moynihan--
(Score: 3, Funny) by EEMac on Saturday September 14 2019, @11:58AM (1 child)
She used to buy lots of clothes and treat them as disposable. Now she wants "sustainability" and sees a social movement towards eco-friendly clothing. Hmm.
https://www.theonion.com/sociologist-considers-own-behavior-indicative-of-larger-1819565923 [theonion.com]Sociologist Considers Own Behavior Indicative of Wider Social Trends
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 15 2019, @08:01PM
I saw a bit about this on the local news this morning. Clothing rental subscription services [digitalcommerce360.com].
That folks would actually want to wear the clothes that other people have sweated in, spilled drinks on, covered in various bodily fluids, etc. boggles the mind.
(Score: 1) by ShadowSystems on Saturday September 14 2019, @12:35PM
Thick sliced for protection against cuts & bruises, maple cured for that international flare (go Canada!), & once I'm done wearing it I can promptly eat it instead of throwing it away.
Sure I shouldn't be a dog catcher while wearing bacon clothes, but then again it might make me the most popular dog catcher ever.
Make my clothes out of bacon. I'll take a quadruple extra large size of everything please, and a side of cinnamon raisin toast. Thanks!
=-D
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Saturday September 14 2019, @04:10PM (2 children)
How the alternative fibers are processed into cloth makes a huge difference. If you spend more energy processing mycelium into artificial fabrics, then you aren't really saving the Earth, are you? People use cotton because it's easy. They use wool because it's easy. It's easy to spin those materials into yarn and process them into cloth.
Look, you can already see the difference illustrated in the relative abundance of cotton and wool garments versus those made of linen. Flax grows everywhere but you have to process it quite a bit to get those pesky fibers out of the stalks. They're long fibers, too, which makes them ideal for spinning (compare that to winning enough fibers out of pineapple leaves, for Pete's sake). But the half dozen extra steps of retting and such make it a pain to work with and prevents it from being more than a niche material. (Yes, it wrinkles easier than cotton but it's also much cooler on the skin than cotton and by all rights ought to displace cotton for activewear).
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Saturday September 14 2019, @04:16PM (1 child)
The mushroom clothing I've seen (pictures of) so far is mainly hats, and they were definitely minimally processed. Basically just hewn into shape. But you need a really big mushroom to start with.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Saturday September 14 2019, @05:03PM
OK, but it still takes days to grow into that shape. Meanwhile, elsewhere thousands of units get produced every day. It's not economical. And what happens when the mycelium doesn't grow properly and you get half a hat? You're not gonna sell that one even at half price.
If we're every going to make progress as a global society with doing things more efficiently to actually live lightly on the land, then we must consider the cradle-to-grave of current processes versus proposed alternatives.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by rylyeh on Saturday September 14 2019, @08:46PM (4 children)
Interesting that hemp was not mentioned - I guess it's too pedestrian for the article.
"a vast crenulate shell wherein rode the grey and awful form of primal Nodens, Lord of the Great Abyss."
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Saturday September 14 2019, @11:06PM (3 children)
My idea as well. Hemp takes far less water and far FAR less fertilizer to grow than cotton. And, hemp is sustainable, in that equal quality/weight clothing made from hemp lasts about seven times as long as it's cotton counterpart. Hemp is also sustainable in that it helps to build soil, rather than depleting the soil. I don't think there are any down sides to hemp fabrics.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 15 2019, @11:48AM (2 children)
Hemp is a coarse and non-stretchy fabric.
If it were a real alternative to cotton in general, we'd already be wearing it.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday September 15 2019, @01:05PM (1 child)
Citations? https://oecotextiles.wordpress.com/2010/06/02/characteristics-of-hemp/ [wordpress.com]
The real reason you're not wearing it, is the big corporates haven't worked out how to capitalize on it. Far better to sell seven T-shirts, than one that may well last longer than all seven cotton shirts.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 16 2019, @05:51PM
Even cotton T-shirts outlast the logos printed on them. Lasting 7 times as long won't extend the usable lifetime (of the printed on advertising.) We'll need to research better T-shirt printing techniques first, and maybe slower growing kids.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 15 2019, @11:55AM
Make quality clothing and people ought to keep wearing it for years.
This is the real answer. Quit making mountains of trash (shoddy goods like "fast fashion" clothing) and quit being a consumerist dolt who keeps feeding the machine by buying and tossing on the regular. But really the goods have to be quality/mendable in the first place for you to keep them. Thick cotton is great for this. Synthetic fibers wear out quickly. (They fuzz, get runs, etc. in short order.)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 15 2019, @05:15PM
just guessing, but the textil industry has optimized itself into a corner.
clothes are cheap; the common materials to make them (cotton wool) are cheap because optimization.
anything new and even better has a hhard time because all the machinery, from tractor add-on to the "spinning machines" are optimized for those.
optimization reduces cost but also makes the whole "tool chain" inflexible.
the corner reeks of "cheap", "nevermind if it doesnt last, it's cheap, buy new" to "to expensive investment to retool", etc. etc.
there, ofc is abrasion of the textile machines, so "hard" fibers, like linen, hemp, coconut and banana "use up" the parts that are in contact with the fibers faster.
further, the taste of the masses, and textile IS masses, is fickle.
one bad news and the whole investment for the "hard fiber" machines goes out the windows because people stop buying it.
cotton and wool are optimized into a hole of cheapness, there's no way people can boycott it, unless they have muchos money, make there own textile or go nakeeed!
what i would like to see is more stuff mixed at the thread level: linen and cotton(?), hemp and cotton(?), wool and either cotton, linen or hemp (beware the kosher clothes, so plant ink on leather parchment that dropped from the heavens says to not mix animal and plant fibers)?
also, 2-level fibers, that is fibers that are micro woven into a thread BEFORE actually woven into cloth? imagine a coil, with diameter of 1 mm, then using this coil to make a bigger 5 cm diameter coil. experiment with the inner coil going anti-clockwise and the bigger coil going clockwise, vice-versa(*)?
note: most oil-derived fibers are crap for clothes but okay for special application, like war or transport but most certainly easy to "fiberize" for existing machines (no retooling required)?
(*) reply spinning/weaving industry BOSS:"HAHAHA! forget THAT. people want to REMOVE clothes from each other, not but on more!"
(Score: 3, Informative) by Muad'Dave on Monday September 16 2019, @12:51PM
... work on getting rid of this vapid, shallow, consumerist attitude? Pegging your sense of self-worth to the opinions of others will destroy your life.
'"When I was 16 or 17 I would buy a new outfit for a party and on every payday, stocking up on new outfits based on was trendy and popular, or what celebrities or my friends were wearing," she says.'