from the to-the-dump-to-the-dump-to-the-dump-dump-dump dept.
The CBC's "The Current" has a story about how online returns are frequently sent to the dump
'It's pretty staggering': Returned online purchases often sent to landfill, journalist's research reveals
Do you order different sizes of clothing online, knowing you can return the one that doesn't fit?
Did you know the ones you return are sometimes sent straight to landfill?
Online shopping has created a boom in perfectly good products ending up in dumpsters and landfills, according to Adria Vasil, an environmental journalist and managing editor of Corporate Knights magazine.
Amazon has faced accusations of destroying returned items in both France and Germany.
The issue also affects unsold products. Burberry admitted in 2018 that it had incinerated £90 million worth of clothing and accessories in the previous five years. The company stopped the policy last year after a public outcry.
Why? You're returning something that's new and fine?
It actually costs a lot of companies more money to put somebody on the product, to visually eyeball it and say, Is this up to standard, is it up to code? Is this going to get us sued? Did somebody tamper with this box in some way? And is this returnable? And if it's clothing, it has to be re-pressed and put back in a nice packaging. And for a lot of companies, it's just not worth it. So they will literally just incinerate it, or send it to the dumpster
So when you order 3 sizes "to be sure you get the one you want", two of them are probably going to the dump. Not very environmentally friendly. .
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Booga1 on Saturday December 14 2019, @09:18AM (18 children)
This does not entirely surprise me. The cost of processing returns for many items is more than the cost of replacement.
For example, a keyboard a roommate ordered off Amazon had the "G" key go dead after about three weeks. She went through the process of "returning" it. So the seller sent her a new keyboard and a return shipping label. The replacement keyboard had the space bar die in just three days. The company sent a third keyboard and told her to just keep the others.
I seriously doubt they would have gone through the trouble of repairing them anyway. The return shipping alone would probably eat up any profit they might make off it.
(Score: 2) by Nuke on Saturday December 14 2019, @09:54AM (11 children)
They might still want the return even if they are going to dump it. Otherwise buyers might be complaining merely to two or more items for the price of one.
(Score: 2) by Booga1 on Saturday December 14 2019, @09:58AM (8 children)
Fair point. In my roommate's case it was a cheap piece of junk keyboard we had to throw out ourselves, but I could definitely see that happening.
Another point in favor of returns is problem diagnosis so a company can figure out what went wrong; material defect, production lines, shipping, user error, etc...
(Score: 3, Insightful) by driverless on Saturday December 14 2019, @10:52AM (7 children)
There is a contributory problem, pointed out by the original article: With no-questions-asked returns, people will buy one of each knowing they can later return everything except the one they want. The first time I encountered this I was rather surprised, but as I ran into more and more people who did it I realised it was an inevitable outcome of making returns too easy to do. Variants exist for other companies as well, e.g. the Fry's Electronic Test Equipment Short-term Rental scheme where you buy an expensive item of test equipment, use it to debug whatever it is you're having trouble with, and then return it for a refund.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by deadstick on Saturday December 14 2019, @02:19PM (1 child)
...aka the Big Screen TV for the Superbowl scheme.
(Score: 2) by driverless on Sunday December 15 2019, @04:23AM
Has anyone ever used it for a Tons of Expensive Shit to Impress Classmates at the Reunion scheme?
(Score: 5, Interesting) by dry on Saturday December 14 2019, @05:43PM (1 child)
For a while Canadian Tire had a lending program for automotive tools, deposit the price of the tool and borrow it rather then buying it, using it once and returning it. I needed a pickle fork for a one time use and borrowing it worked fine, especially for something that you take a sledge hammer to. Unluckily the borrowing thing seems to have gone away, I guess they figured there was more money to be made selling the tools even with the returns.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 14 2019, @05:49PM
I bought a $15 power steering pulley puller but it broke after few years use. Lifetime warranty! The tool maker had redesigned it into a $135 kit but kept the same part number. Score!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 14 2019, @07:11PM
"the Fry's Electronic Test Equipment Short-term Rental scheme where you buy an expensive item of test equipment, use it to debug whatever it is you're having trouble with, and then return it for a refund."
That's interesting. A lot of places like Home Depot make money by renting out expensive power tools. This is especially useful for contractors that have a wide variety of jobs over the years that require a wide array of tools and the contractor doesn't want to purchase and store every possible tool they may need for every possible job that comes their way. This can also have certain advantages over trying to rent the tools over the Internet and have them shipped back and fourth each time as well.
Perhaps places like Fry's Electronics can do a similar rental scheme for very expensive electronic equipment? Not sure if they already do so or if there is a market for it like there is for power tools but if enough people are purchasing and returning expensive items for one time use perhaps there is a rental niche for electronics out there. Of course they would then have to give people incentive to rent instead of purchase and return (?), perhaps they can find ways to adjust their return policy accordingly (charge a restocking fee if the same person repeatedly buys and returns items too many times within a given timeframe?)?
(Score: 3, Informative) by Magic Oddball on Saturday December 14 2019, @10:09PM (1 child)
Amazon even actively encourages that behavior in Prime members now with Prime Wardrobe [amazon.com] which tells customers they can order multiple items of clothes, shoes, or accessories to try on for a week without being charged (!), then return anything they don't want to buy using the included pre-paid shipping box.
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Monday December 16 2019, @07:07PM
That seems crazy, but I guess that's a workaround for the inability to try something on before you buy it.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 4, Interesting) by takyon on Saturday December 14 2019, @12:23PM (1 child)
They could tap into a social credit score to see if you're among the 5% who would do that.
Or just let the platform handle that: https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/talkingtech/2018/05/23/amazon-bans-customers-who-return-too-many-orders/636089002/ [usatoday.com]
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 3, Informative) by Coward, Anonymous on Sunday December 15 2019, @03:57AM
I've had Amazon tell me to just keep some low-cost items after I submitted the return forms. I guess the algorithm trusts me :-)
(Score: 2) by driverless on Saturday December 14 2019, @10:47AM (5 children)
I thought all Amazon returns got re-sold as new items. Has any Amazon user here not at least once received an item that was clearly used even though it was marked as new?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 14 2019, @12:27PM (1 child)
I view that as a feature: you order something, they ship you a used item, you complain, they send you another and tell you to just keep the first. Got me two 50' ethernet cables for the price of one that way. Thanks Jeff Bezos!
(Score: 5, Insightful) by takyon on Saturday December 14 2019, @12:58PM
Bezos will send you to an orbital prison colony one day, where you will be made to grease up warehouse robots.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 14 2019, @01:20PM (2 children)
I bought a GPU to play a latest videogame that required 256 megs of VRAM.
Got a passive card that had all the plastic accents that were supposed to be on the gpu popped off and the package opened. First and last purchase from Newegg. I went 100 percent back to in-store purchases until about 2 years ago when the bitcoin mining craze wiped out in-store gpu stocks. And now the store chain in question is closing entirely.
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 14 2019, @01:32PM
1. Find a Micro Center.
2. Buy a home within 1 mile of the Micro Center.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 14 2019, @07:25PM
When this happened the Fry's Electronics where I live simply implemented a policy that didn't allow anyone to return video cards because too many people were buying them, using them to mine bitcoins wearing them down, and returning them.
I figure when Bitcoins are mined by ASICs then GPUs will be less attractive to use for that purpose?
(Score: 2) by sjames on Saturday December 14 2019, @10:06AM (19 children)
I'll bet that if they had bothered to call a shelter and offer the returned clothes by the dumpster load, they could have found their way to use rather than waste.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by EJ on Saturday December 14 2019, @10:11AM
If homeless people are wearing Burberry clothes, then the rich people aren't going to pay $600 for a shirt the poors will be wearing.
(Score: 5, Informative) by Nuke on Saturday December 14 2019, @11:38AM (17 children)
The shelter might be too fussy to accept them. Mrs Nuke worked for a company that took in "old" furniture to give to the poor. Inless it was fully labelled with certification that it conformed to the latest safety and fire standards, it was dumped. It was also dumped if it did not look "new". About 90% of the stuff donated to them went to landfill, and in practice that is where it went unless it had come straight from a shop brand new, for example surplus from an over- order . The kind people donating in good faith had no idea.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 14 2019, @01:00PM (7 children)
Yep, the nice stuff goes to the charity stores where it's sold to trendy hipsters. Most people, even homeless, don't usually have the problem of having too few clothes to survive (with the exception of winter jackets), so they don't get excited over visibly-used charity hand-me-downs. What they could do is reprocess the materials rather than throwing it away. Give temp jobs to homeless throwing clothes in the shredder.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 14 2019, @02:01PM (5 children)
There's a market for clean rags. If people knew what they're worth, they would invest the time to wash then process the clothing into rags.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 14 2019, @02:05PM (2 children)
Yah? I got a whole bag of clothes in a closet that needs to be thrown out. Everything has holes, but it's all clean.
Where can I send this stuff?
(Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 15 2019, @02:23AM (1 child)
The Church.
They like holy things.
(Score: 2) by Bot on Sunday December 15 2019, @12:02PM
we actually have used dresses collection tanks and they used to be operated by caritas, catholic org.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Saturday December 14 2019, @02:57PM (1 child)
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 14 2019, @03:16PM
So, half of it isn't fit for rags. Still, there's blue jeans, denim jackets, cotton socks... If it's usable by someone, anyone, I'd rather not toss it in the dumpster.
The recycling around here doesn't even take most plastics. I guess I'll just send it all to the recycling center and let them sort it out unless someone suggests a better option.
(Score: 3, Informative) by dry on Saturday December 14 2019, @05:48PM
I understand socks are a problem for the homeless, at least here in the rain forest. Feet rot without clean dry socks.
(Score: 5, Informative) by VLM on Saturday December 14 2019, @03:18PM
My MIL volunteered for many years as a sorter at a similar resale store, and the legal liability to the non-profit of reselling furniture with lead paint meant that anything donated that was painted, got landfilled.
(Score: 5, Informative) by barbara hudson on Saturday December 14 2019, @04:02PM (6 children)
Some of these goods still turn up. An illegal crib was further modified by foster parents by placing a bar horizontally across the top on one side to keep the kid in (obviously the crib was too small).
The day the child was to return home to his mother, the police showed up at her door to tell her that her son had strangled to death by the crib.
I met the woman a day or two later- there was nothing I could do but sit and listen, and commiserate. But that crib should have been destroyed long ago, and certainly never modified.
Some people are unaware, so it falls on charities to be aware for them. There are dressers that have been banned because of excessive risk of tipping over - kids have been killed by them. Existing ones need to be anchored at the top to a wall - but how do you know which ones need this, how do you ensure whoever gets it anchors it?
How do you ensure everyone volunteering knows this and can discard the unsafe stuff?'
I try to keep up with food recalls so I can check that nothing we give out at the food bank is unsafe. So do other volunteers. Charities are just one lawsuit away from closing, because let's face it, even if you win your reputation is shot and donations dry up, and volunteers go elsewhere.
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 14 2019, @04:07PM
Lawn darts were awesome. Still, when I was a kid a friend of mine knew someone that tossed one to his dad and yelled "Catch!" Unfortunately their dad didn't react in time. The dad was hit in the back of the head and it was a fatal blow.
Nowadays that would be one heck of a lawsuit if the darts had been purchased at a thrift shop.
(Score: 2) by Coward, Anonymous on Sunday December 15 2019, @04:02AM (4 children)
And those made after that date can't be used by parents in wheelchairs.
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Sunday December 15 2019, @04:16AM (3 children)
Whoa! You got something against the handicapped? That a woman in a wheel chair can't get pregnant, or can't be a proper mother, so she'll never need a crib?
We have enough of a problem with the handicapped being nearly invisible. Let's try not to add to it, hmm?
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 2) by Coward, Anonymous on Sunday December 15 2019, @05:39AM
You seem to be inferring something opposite of what I wrote. My point is that the old drop-side cribs are much easier to lift babies into and out of for wheelchair users than the new fixed-wall ones.
(Score: 2) by Nuke on Sunday December 15 2019, @11:26AM (1 child)
Invisible? Around my way they clog the shopping areas with their mobility scooters.
(Score: 2) by barbara hudson on Sunday December 15 2019, @06:01PM
How about jobs? You know, stuff that really counts in making your life better? Using a scooter to get from point a to point b doesn't do much for your life if you don't have a job to go to.
Economic and social disenfranchisement, learned dependence, and then the resentment because of that dependence, how many handicapped do you see in your workplace, or at the businesses you visit?
In many ways disposable fashion is like the handicapped - no longer wanted, not worth fixing up to put back on the market, cheaper to just toss on the garbage heap.
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by sjames on Saturday December 14 2019, @06:17PM
Then offer them to another one. The clothes in question will be in like new condition, often with all of the tags still on it. In a department store, they wouldn't think twice about taking it out of the dressing room, putting it on a hanger and returning it to a rack on the sales floor.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 14 2019, @12:31PM
Just get St Greta the Grumpy to stare at Jeff Bezos until he stops doing it.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 14 2019, @01:02PM (3 children)
You would see headlines like these:
Man caught herpes from returned pants!
Woman sues after bedbugs from returned sofa infest home!
(Score: 4, Informative) by barbara hudson on Saturday December 14 2019, @03:00PM (2 children)
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by VLM on Saturday December 14 2019, @03:23PM (1 child)
Last time I got a mattress it arrived in plastic and wasn't removed from the protective bag until it was pushed and shoved into its final resting place in the house. So, yeah, I guess in theory its possible, but given that most delivery trucks are not exactly surgically clean to begin with and lot of mattresses are white or light colored I'm really not feeling like a new mattress would arrive "naked". Like... what if its raining on delivery date, they're gonna deliver a soggy mattress? So its gonna be in a bag.
Now a REALLY sketchy store might be more of a mattress rotation business, "well heck, this used mattress looks new, and we got $600 to deliver a mattress to the next house, and technically we'd be delivering a mattress, so I'm just saying we COULD sell the actual new mattress twice..."
(Score: 3, Informative) by barbara hudson on Saturday December 14 2019, @04:11PM
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by VLM on Saturday December 14 2019, @03:33PM
The general public never thinks of latency, but consider that my wife's new puppy calendar for 2020 was probably designed a year ago, printed months ago, slow boat from China in the fall, and finally arrives at my house, and if it gets returned on Dec 26 by the time it could be shipped and prepped for resale, its essentially worthless.
Extends to non-time specific products, like how well can you expect to sell an "OK Boomer" tee shirt a year from now, so if they ordered enough shirts made by slave labor and political prisoners overseas to last the entire length of the fad plus some, because the markup on clothing and shoes is like 10000000% and a shoe costs 10 cents to make overseas even if it sells in the USA for $150, well, just chuck it out, there's literally a warehouse full of enough disposable crap to last the entire meme / fad / style. Its not like a "6/32 machine screw pan head 3/4 inch" that has a sellable lifespan of a couple centuries.
Another interesting latency like concept is some products like shoes have been quality engineered to only last six months, maybe less, to increase sales, while retaining the "its gonna last a couple years" full quality price. So in a metaphysical sense, every shitty meme tee shirt will be in the landfill in six months, not just the ones that were returned. They're all going to be in the landfill; the one that got washed ten times and the screen print looks awful now, the one that unraveled in the wash the first time it was washed, the one that got sent back for being falsely labeled with the wrong size, the one that was worn every week for many months until it wasn't stylish anymore, the one that never sold and the meme is dead now so it'll never be sold again, etc. Every single meme tee shirt shipped from China will be in the landfill in a couple months, just via different paths. So in a sense it doesn't matter what the specific path is for a specific shirt, every shirt arriving on the boat will be in the trash in a couple months. So... yeah... it don't matter than returns go in the trash can, everything arriving from the overseas printer is going in the trash one way or another so ...
(Score: 2) by Bot on Saturday December 14 2019, @10:44PM (6 children)
In civilized places like Italy not only vendors do not dump returns, but they resell them. As brand new items.
This is for you, greta!!!
Account abandoned.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday December 14 2019, @11:57PM (5 children)
That girl sure triggers you hard...
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 3, Funny) by Coward, Anonymous on Sunday December 15 2019, @05:17AM (1 child)
To be fair, the last time a child was taken this seriously probably dates back to the Salem witch trials.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Bot on Sunday December 15 2019, @11:57AM
Don't forget the most recent Bibbiano scandal, a witch hunt by left officially sanctioned public servants, when shrinks terrorized children into testifying against parents (going as far as wearing masks diring the sessions) so that they could be adopted by same sex couples and actual pedos.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 2) by Bot on Sunday December 15 2019, @11:52AM (2 children)
Greta is a symbol and referred to as such here.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday December 15 2019, @11:33PM (1 child)
And that symbol triggers you harder than anything is going to until your death (and then, whoooo boy, are you ever in for a nasty surprise...).
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by Bot on Monday December 16 2019, @01:18PM
My woes are here, for all to see
they start with "system" and end with "d"
Account abandoned.
(Score: 3, Informative) by corey on Sunday December 15 2019, @02:50AM
I used to live with someone who worked for Calvin Klein Jeans. She told me they never discount their stock except for the factory door sales, because it would devalue the brand, so they chucked out old stock that didn't sell.