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posted by martyb on Friday July 30 2021, @01:13AM   Printer-friendly

The Amount of Greenland Ice That Melted on Tuesday Could Cover Florida in 2 Inches of Water

The amount of Greenland ice that melted on Tuesday could cover Florida in 2 inches of water:

It's the third instance of extreme melting on the continent in the past decade, during which time the melting has stretched farther inland than the entire satellite era, which began in the 1970s.

Greenland lost more than 8.5 billion tons of surface mass on Tuesday, and 18.4 billion tons since Sunday, according to the Denmark Meteorological Institute. While this week's total ice loss is not as extreme as a similar event in 2019 — a record melt year — the area of the ice sheet that's melting is larger.

"It's a significant melt," Ted Scambos, a senior research scientist at the National Snow and Ice Data Center at the University of Colorado, told CNN. "July 27th saw most of the eastern half of Greenland from the northern tip all the way to the southern tip mostly melted, which is unusual."

As human-caused climate change warms the planet, ice loss has increased rapidly. According to a recent study published in the journal Cryosphere, Earth has lost a staggering 28 trillion tonnes of ice since the mid-1990s, a large portion of which was from the Arctic, including the Greenland ice sheet.

As Drought Cuts Hay Crop, Cattle Ranchers Face Culling Herds

As drought cuts hay crop, cattle ranchers face culling herds:

With his cattle ranch threatened by a deepening drought, Jim Stanko isn’t cheered by the coming storm signaled by the sound of thunder.

“Thunder means lightning, and lightning can cause fires,” said Stanko, who fears he’ll have to sell off half his herd of about 90 cows in Routt County outside of Steamboat Springs, Colorado if he can’t harvest enough hay to feed them.

As the drought worsens across the West and ushers in an early fire season, cattle ranchers are among those feeling the pain. Their hay yields are down, leading some to make the hard decision to sell off animals. To avoid the high cost of feed, many ranchers grow hay to nourish their herds through the winter when snow blankets the grass they normally graze.

But this year, Stanko’s hay harvest so far is even worse than it was last year. One field produced just 10 bales, down from 30 last year, amid heat waves and historically low water levels in the Yampa River, his irrigation source.

Some ranchers aren’t waiting to reduce the number of mouths they need to feed.

At the Loma Livestock auction in western Colorado, sales were bustling earlier this month even though its peak season isn’t usually until the fall when most calves are ready to be sold. Fueling the action are ranchers eager to unload cattle while prices are still strong.

[...] “If it rained four inches, there wouldn’t be a cow to sell for five months,” said George Raftopoulos, owner of the auction house.

Warming Rivers in US West Killing Fish, Imperiling Industry

Warming rivers in US West killing fish, imperiling industry:

Hundreds of thousands of young salmon are dying in Northern California’s Klamath River as low water levels brought about by drought allow a parasite to thrive, devastating a Native American tribe whose diet and traditions are tied to the fish. And wildlife officials said the Sacramento River is facing a “near-complete loss” of young Chinook salmon due to abnormally warm water.

A crash in one year’s class of young salmon can have lasting effects on the total population and shorten or stop the fishing season, a growing concern as climate change continues to make the West hotter and drier. That could be devastating to the commercial salmon fishing industry, which in California alone is worth $1.4 billion.

[...] Winter-run Chinook salmon are born in the Sacramento River, traverse hundreds of miles to the Pacific, where they normally spend three years before returning to their birthplace to mate and lay their eggs between April and August. Unlike the fall-run Chinook that survives almost entirely due to hatchery breeding programs, the winter run is still largely reared in the wild.

Federal fisheries officials predicted in May that more than 80% of baby salmon could die because of warmer water in the Sacramento River. Now, state wildlife officials say that number could be higher amid a rapidly depleting pool of cool water in Lake Shasta. California’s largest reservoir is filled to only about 35% capacity, federal water managers said this week.

[...] When Lake Shasta was formed in the 1940s, it blocked access to the cool mountain streams where fish traditionally spawned. To ensure their survival, the U.S. government is required to maintain river temperatures below 56 degrees Fahrenheit (13 Celsius) in spawning habitat because salmon eggs generally can’t withstand anything warmer.

The warm water is starting to affect older fish, too. Scientists have seen some adult fish dying before they can lay their eggs.

[...] Hudson, the fisherman, said he used to spend days at sea when the salmon season was longer and could catch 100 fish per day.

This year, he said he was lucky to catch 80 to sell at the market.

“Retiring would be the smart thing to do, but I can’t bring myself to do it because these fish have been so good to us for all these years.

'Trying to Survive': Wells Dry Up Amid Oregon Water Woes

'Trying to survive': Wells dry up amid Oregon water woes:

Judy and Jim Shanks know the exact date their home’s well went dry — June 24.

Since then, their life has been an endless cycle of imposing on relatives for showers and laundry, hauling water to feed a small herd of cattle and desperately waiting for a local well-drilling company to make it to their name on a monthslong wait list.

The couple’s well is among potentially hundreds that have dried up in recent weeks in an area near the Oregon-California border suffering through a historic drought, leaving homes with no running water just a few months after the federal government shut off irrigation to hundreds of the region’s farmers for the first time ever.

Officials have formal reports of 117 empty wells but suspect more than 300 have gone dry in the past few weeks as the consequences of the Klamath River basin’s water scarcity extend far beyond farmers’ fields.

Worried homeowners face waits of six months or more to get new, deeper wells dug because of the surging demand, with no guarantee that those wells, too, won’t ultimately go dry.

[...] While much of the West is experiencing exceptional drought conditions, the toll on everyday life is particularly stark in this region filled with flat vistas of sprawling alfalfa and potato fields and normally teeming wetlands.

This summer’s already critical water shortages have been amplified by a mandate to preserve water levels for two species of endangered suckerfish in a key lake that’s also the primary source of irrigation water for 200,000 acres (80,900 hectares) of farmland.


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  • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 30 2021, @01:30AM (3 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 30 2021, @01:30AM (#1161226)

    Just waiting for the Greenland real estate scams to get started up. The Brooklyn Bridge has been oversubscribed for awhile now.

    • (Score: 4, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Friday July 30 2021, @08:00PM (1 child)

      by DeathMonkey (1380) on Friday July 30 2021, @08:00PM (#1161477) Journal

      Real estate scams,eh?

      Well, I guess that explains why Trump wanted to buy it so badly! [npr.org]

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 31 2021, @04:30AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 31 2021, @04:30AM (#1161621)

        Well, as the ice melts, develop-able land must be appearing? There's a sucker born every minute (maybe more now that the world population is up) and a good number of scam artists waiting to prey on them.

        I'd forgotten about Trump's silly idea, but maybe he'll try again. This time on his personal account (using someone else's money per usual).

    • (Score: 2) by gawdonblue on Saturday July 31 2021, @02:51AM

      by gawdonblue (412) on Saturday July 31 2021, @02:51AM (#1161594)

      Personally, I don't think that the comment about real estate in Greenland was the best thing ever done but wouldn't have modded it one way or the other, but it is definitely not "Offtopic".

      The modding lately has been weird. Lots of improper negative mods on all sorts of things. It feels like it may be a deliberate down-modding campaign by someone. Maybe we could introduce a maximum of 1 or 2 negative mods per day.

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by c0lo on Friday July 30 2021, @01:40AM (1 child)

    by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Friday July 30 2021, @01:40AM (#1161230) Journal

    “Retiring would be the smart thing to do, but I can’t bring myself to do it because these fish have been so good to us for all these years.

    "The fish is dying, but I can't stop myself to want some more of them."

    Officials have formal reports of 117 empty wells but suspect more than 300 have gone dry in the past few weeks as the consequences of the Klamath River basin’s water scarcity extend far beyond farmers’ fields.

    Worried homeowners face waits of six months or more to get new, deeper wells dug because of the surging demand, with no guarantee that those wells, too, won’t ultimately go dry.

    "Ain't willing to find alternatives until we don't suck everything dry and then we'll know for sure we will need to find alternatives."

    ---

    Question is: after we've been selfish to the extreme and sacrificed the environ for us, what comes next?

    --
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
    • (Score: 4, Touché) by c0lo on Friday July 30 2021, @01:43AM

      by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Friday July 30 2021, @01:43AM (#1161233) Journal

      Question is: after we've been selfish to the extreme and sacrificed the environ for us, what comes next?

      Quip at pages bottom: "Don't tell me I'm burning the candle at both ends -- tell me where to get more wax!!"
      Take it how you wish.

      --
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by HammeredGlass on Friday July 30 2021, @01:40AM (10 children)

    by HammeredGlass (12241) on Friday July 30 2021, @01:40AM (#1161231)

    That's the way it's always been on a time scale significant to modern humans. Stop watering the desert areas there and it will get better.

    https://public.media.smithsonianmag.com/legacy_blog/powellmap.jpg [smithsonianmag.com]

    • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday July 30 2021, @01:45AM (9 children)

      by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Friday July 30 2021, @01:45AM (#1161235) Journal

      Stop watering the desert areas there and it will get better.

      You sure about that "it will get better"?
      Based on what exactly?

      --
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
      • (Score: 4, Insightful) by number11 on Friday July 30 2021, @02:16AM (8 children)

        by number11 (1170) Subscriber Badge on Friday July 30 2021, @02:16AM (#1161246)

        It will get better, because people will have to adapt to living in land that's arid or desert. The population there will dwindle. It's not suited for most farming, it's not suited for large numbers of people. And if you're going to live in the desert, you'll have to figure out how to get water, there probably won't be enough for many people. Or maybe in those areas, water prices act like California real estate prices. Yeah, it sucks if it's you. In the 1920s it was "Okies" (some, but not all, from Oklahoma) who had to flee. Gonna be more again. Mother Nature doesn't care.

        • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday July 30 2021, @02:32AM

          by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Friday July 30 2021, @02:32AM (#1161250) Journal

          The population there will dwindle.

          Bluntly put, your solution is "Stop trying to fit a larger population than an area can sustainable... ummm... sustain".

          I can't say I dislike it, except that "stop irrigating the desert" (if you can't afford to do it in a sustainable way) is only one facet of the more general solution.

          --
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
        • (Score: 2) by quietus on Friday July 30 2021, @10:44AM (6 children)

          by quietus (6328) on Friday July 30 2021, @10:44AM (#1161335) Journal

          Where exactly should those large populations turn to then -- the Amazon Basin?

          • (Score: 2) by HammeredGlass on Friday July 30 2021, @02:33PM (4 children)

            by HammeredGlass (12241) on Friday July 30 2021, @02:33PM (#1161369)

            There used to be a lot more people there. Why not again?

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 30 2021, @04:50PM (3 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 30 2021, @04:50PM (#1161399)

              Tse-Tse flies?

              The reason many of those places have had reduced population is a combination of environmental factors changing, and the apex predators not being humans. Hell, I was just reading the other day about Indonesia getting a few people eaten each year by pythons!

              I don't have the solution to our larger ecology and resource issues, but perhaps it is time to consider how we transport water from the ocean year round inland, so that the water table can recover.

              • (Score: 4, Informative) by HammeredGlass on Friday July 30 2021, @06:43PM

                by HammeredGlass (12241) on Friday July 30 2021, @06:43PM (#1161442)

                A couple of good ways to get the water table to recover is to stop Nestle from emptying aquifers and from actions like the Colorado River being used to water the Los Angeles desert being stopped.

              • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 30 2021, @06:44PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 30 2021, @06:44PM (#1161444)

                The water cycle transfers water at scale much more efficiently than humans can. What we can do is make sure that water gets into aquifers rather than drying up on concrete or being used wastefully... Trees shade the ground, provide habitat for insects and animals, and seed clouds with their respiration. Large-scale public works projects in desert areas would also be a useful test of environmental engineering knowledge with long-term payoff.

              • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Friday July 30 2021, @11:27PM

                by fustakrakich (6150) on Friday July 30 2021, @11:27PM (#1161527) Journal

                perhaps it is time to consider how we transport water from the ocean year round inland

                Gigantic rain barrels to collect the already desalinated water falling out of the sky

                --
                La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
          • (Score: 2) by number11 on Tuesday August 10 2021, @12:54AM

            by number11 (1170) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday August 10 2021, @12:54AM (#1165226)

            "Large populations" should turn to parts of the earth that are habitable. Don't need single-family homes in tinder-dry firebait, when people can live in denser, more amenable, areas. Obviously if you combine large populations with low density, you're gonna run out of good places to site them.

            Don't want to live in the city? Not the American suburban dream? Tough shit, then find a way to reduce your population.

  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by GreatScott2001 on Friday July 30 2021, @01:49AM (26 children)

    by GreatScott2001 (14964) on Friday July 30 2021, @01:49AM (#1161236) Journal

    Is the world ready to adopt desalination yet? Objections should fall by the wayside when people are thirsty. No, not talking about little projects here and there that might serve a million people. Big projects that will serve the world's largest cities are needed - along with equally large projects to irrigate the farmlands that feed the cities. Instead of pumping rivers and aquifers dry, it's time to go to the source, and desalinate ocean water on industrial scales.

    • (Score: 3, Funny) by Acabatag on Friday July 30 2021, @02:07AM (1 child)

      by Acabatag (2885) on Friday July 30 2021, @02:07AM (#1161240)

      Or maybe the world's largest cities are not feasible and people need to move out onto the land.

      I shouldn't propose this, because I don't want them all moving here.

      • (Score: 5, Insightful) by HiThere on Friday July 30 2021, @03:06AM

        by HiThere (866) Subscriber Badge on Friday July 30 2021, @03:06AM (#1161263) Journal

        Moving out onto the land isn't a feasible solution unless you create a lot more land. People in cities actually live more efficiently on a per person basis...it's just that there are so many of them. The basic problem is overpopulation.

        This is something people have been doing since the stone age. Expanding the population into a larger number than they can support with current tech on current resources. Most of the ways its been solved are pretty rugged, involving lots of people dying. Some times because you form the population into a army and take over your neighbor's land...but often it's been the overpopulated area that experiences the high death rate. Look up "irrigation and salinization".

        --
        Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
    • (Score: 3, Informative) by c0lo on Friday July 30 2021, @02:13AM (2 children)

      by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Friday July 30 2021, @02:13AM (#1161245) Journal

      Big projects that will serve the world's largest cities are needed - along with equally large projects to irrigate the farmlands that feed the cities. Instead of pumping rivers and aquifers dry, it's time to go to the source, and desalinate ocean water on industrial scales.

      Ummm... pray tell, how you wanna do that?

      I mean, except for distillation, the other method will let some salts in the resulting "fresh" water - I'll give you 3 years until the soil you irrigate with it is dead. Even for distillation, if you don't supply enough water to wash down the river the salts you bring in, you end in the same spot, just a bit later (make it 30 years instead of just 3).

      Further information [who.int]

      RO [reverse osmosis] processes can produce water in the range of 10 to 500 ppm TDS. [total dissolved salts]
      ...
      Distillation plants can produce water in the range of 1 to 50 ppm TDS

      --
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 30 2021, @06:52PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 30 2021, @06:52PM (#1161449)

        https://projects.leitat.org/new-technologies-for-microbial-desalination-ready-for-market-entry/ [leitat.org]
        Nature already has plants and animals optimized for the task, and judging by the number of deployments, it's not been too difficult to integrate them into water treatment processes. Desalination is newer, but I doubt it will prove much more difficult, especially as mining comes under increasing pressure from environmental groups and sea salt becomes more lucrative.

      • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Friday July 30 2021, @11:46PM

        by fustakrakich (6150) on Friday July 30 2021, @11:46PM (#1161535) Journal

        On the scale we need, it will probably be best to collect the rainwater falling over the oceans. It will save one step at least

        --
        La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
    • (Score: 4, Informative) by c0lo on Friday July 30 2021, @03:37AM (20 children)

      by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Friday July 30 2021, @03:37AM (#1161271) Journal

      Crazy idea: how about one pumps Mississippi water all the way up into the desert?

      Assuming no losses, how high one can raise a kilo of water with the energy required to evaporate it completely?

      Specific evaporation heat of water: 2,260 kJ/kg. The work against the Earth gravitation to raise a mass m over a height difference of Δh is m·g·Δh. So, Δh = 2260e3/9.8 m = 230612m. So that's about... what... 230km???
      (quick check: 1J raises 1kg of water at about 0.1m. Then 2.26e6J is enough to raise that kg of water over a 2.26e5m which is... correct!... 226km)

      Even assuming 99% energy losses, that's enough to pump Mississippi water from Baton Rouge back to Yellowstone park. Good God! Humans are puny in sourcing and manipulating energy!!!

      ---

      Ok, so what gives if one uses reverse osmosis? (pdf warning) current technologies place the specific energetic cost to 2.98 kWh/m3 [uh.edu] which is 2.89*3600 = 8208 J/kg. With this energy, one can raise 1kg of water over Δh = 837m. Say, 40% of energy losses, this translates to 500m elevation.

      Now, consider that reverse osmosis means "sea/ocean shore" - so pumping water uphill is still needed. I feel that it still makes (engineering but not necessary environmental) sense to pump the Mississippi water into Nevada rather than desal water obtained in, say, Los Angeles. But I might be wrong.

      --
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
      • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 30 2021, @04:32AM (3 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 30 2021, @04:32AM (#1161279)

        Googled around, and an "interstate water system" is an idea that's been discussed. It really is tempting to look at floods back east and think, "if only".

        First problem. An economic quantity of water requires a much fatter pipe than an economic quantity of oil, gas, or anything else we routinely pipe. New York City water supply tunnels are 24 feet in diameter, and it looks like they run less than 100 miles. It's still a hugely expensive project, and that's within one state.

        Some recent large water projects have been suggested to move water from the wetter NorCal towards the south and... I think you know where I'm heading with the 2nd problem: lawyers.

        Don't steal our water is a common refrain out west, and the east will pick up on it too. "Whiskey is for drinking, water is for fighting".

        Third issue: environmental. You have to accept that some organisms from back east will mix with western water, possibly destroying fisheries or causing other problems unless you treat the water *first* and that adds to the expense.

        I don't think anybody has ever built a water pipeline that long. That doesn't mean it can't be done... just that it would be hung up for years. Like, if we started 10 years ago I think we'd still be looking at the first flow in 20 years.

        • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday July 30 2021, @06:32AM

          by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Friday July 30 2021, @06:32AM (#1161305) Journal

          New York City water supply tunnels are 24 feet in diameter, and it looks like they run less than 100 miles.

          You know what this means, right? It's unlikely that desal will be used for irrigation any time soon.

          Page 18 water footprint in l/kcal for primary crops [waterfootprint.org]. One harvest/year of any crop, with 1800kcal/day on a lean diet - a human is quite an expensive being to keep alive in terms of water footprint. If drinking/sanitation water for NYC are humongous, imagine the amount required to grow the crops to feed them.

          --
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
        • (Score: 3, Informative) by driverless on Friday July 30 2021, @01:01PM

          by driverless (4770) on Friday July 30 2021, @01:01PM (#1161352)

          Fourth issue: With water-supply tunnels that large you can drive drump trucks full of gold bullion stolen from the Federal Reserve halfway across the country without being caught. Everyone always forgets that one, and then they have to call in John McClane again to clean up the mess.

        • (Score: 2) by Reziac on Saturday July 31 2021, @02:52AM

          by Reziac (2489) on Saturday July 31 2021, @02:52AM (#1161595) Homepage

          Seems to me the problem wouldn't be the size or length of the pipe (or trench; see also the California aqueduct); rather, the energy required to pump it a couple thousand feet uphill.

          BTW by one estimate, about 80% of the CA aqueduct's water is lost enroute to evaporation (open trench in a hot dry climate; what did they expect?)

          --
          And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 30 2021, @06:10AM (4 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 30 2021, @06:10AM (#1161298)

        question: is mississippi fed by rain, or ice in the mountains? the mountain ice is going away, which means increased variation of flow rate (because snowcaps act like accumulation lakes).
        depending on the variation of the flow rate, there may not be anything to divert for a couple of months a year.

        by the way, my guess is that most of the mississippi does come from regular precipitation, but i genuinely don't know.
        if global warming makes all the snow fall as rain, then the delay between "it's raining" and "the rain water is now all in the river" is suddenly shorter, and the river dynamics may change profoundly.

        • (Score: 3, Informative) by c0lo on Friday July 30 2021, @06:41AM

          by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Friday July 30 2021, @06:41AM (#1161308) Journal

          Rain over the collection basin of the river. Which is, like, half of US [mississippiriverdelta.org] - if the water is not used/stored where it rained, it flows in the sea at the end.

          --
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
        • (Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Friday July 30 2021, @04:56PM (2 children)

          by hendrikboom (1125) Subscriber Badge on Friday July 30 2021, @04:56PM (#1161400) Homepage Journal

          The Canadian west's rain originates in evaporation of glaciers in the mountains, so I've been told. Is it the same in the USA? So glaciers are essential even if they don't feed rivers directly.

          • (Score: 2) by Reziac on Saturday July 31 2021, @03:03AM

            by Reziac (2489) on Saturday July 31 2021, @03:03AM (#1161597) Homepage

            Glaciers are absolutely trivial compared to the annual snowpack, and if they did evaporate to that extent, they'd disappear every year instead of only occasionally (and most glaciers are pretty small). Rain and snow come mostly from evaporation over the ocean being condensed out as it goes over the mountains, and runoff from rain and the annual snowpack melt feeds the rivers. Cooler ocean means less evaporation, and less rain/snow.

            We have a bunch of typical little mountain glaciers (none as big as a football field, some smaller than my yard) on the pass south of me. They wax and wane over the years, and only exist because there are spots where snow piles up that never get any sun, and they're over 10,000 feet so the air rarely heats up. If we had to depend on 'em for rainfall, we'd look like the Sahara.

            --
            And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
          • (Score: 2) by dry on Saturday July 31 2021, @07:17AM

            by dry (223) on Saturday July 31 2021, @07:17AM (#1161652) Journal

            I'm on the west coast of Canada, the rain blows in from the ocean, the worst often from Hawaii (pineapple express) as an atmospheric river, sometimes from the gulf of Alaska, and it travels east with much getting stopped by the mountains but enough making it to the prairies that a couple of days after a storm here, they're getting it in Alberta and points east.
            Our summer water comes mostly from snow melt as well as rain and lately there hasn't been much. Here in the rain forest it is very dry, snowing needles from the brown trees and lots of stories about low rivers. Further east it is worse.

      • (Score: 1) by shrewdsheep on Friday July 30 2021, @08:23AM (6 children)

        by shrewdsheep (5215) on Friday July 30 2021, @08:23AM (#1161324)

        quick check: 1J raises 1kg of water at about 0.1m

        Didn't check it in any way, but this hurts my intuition. 1J is very little energy and cannot possibly be the potential energy of 1kg of water 10cm above ground. Maby 1ml 1mm above ground, probably less.

        • (Score: 3, Informative) by deimtee on Friday July 30 2021, @08:54AM

          by deimtee (3272) on Friday July 30 2021, @08:54AM (#1161325) Journal

          Your intuition needs calibration.
          1 joule is 1 newton x 1 metre.
          Lifting 1 kg of water requires 9.8N
          9.8N x 0.1M = 0.98 J
          So c0lo was right to about 98% accuracy.

          Perhaps you were thinking of ergs?

          --
          If you cough while drinking cheap red wine it really cleans out your sinuses.
        • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday July 30 2021, @09:01AM (4 children)

          by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Friday July 30 2021, @09:01AM (#1161326) Journal

          Here's a refresher for you.

          Joule [wikipedia.org] energy transferred to an object when a force of one newton acts on that object in the direction of the force's motion through a distance of one metre

          Newton [wikipedia.org] - the force which gives a mass of 1 kilogram an acceleration of 1 metre per second, per second, 1 kg⋅m/s2.

          Gravity of Earth [wikipedia.org] - denoted by g, is the net acceleration that is imparted to objects due to the combined effect of gravitation (from mass distribution within Earth) and the centrifugal force (from the Earth's rotation). The nominal "average" value at Earth's surface, known as standard gravity is, by definition, 9.80665 m/s2.

          Gravitational energy [wikipedia.org] - Close to the Earth's surface, the gravitational field is approximately constant, and the gravitational potential energy of an object reduces to U = m·g·h

          --
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
          • (Score: 1) by shrewdsheep on Friday July 30 2021, @12:51PM (3 children)

            by shrewdsheep (5215) on Friday July 30 2021, @12:51PM (#1161351)

            Thank you for taking the time, as deimtee puts it: my intuition needs recalibration (stemming mainly on medical examples).

            • (Score: 3, Funny) by c0lo on Saturday July 31 2021, @12:38AM

              by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Saturday July 31 2021, @12:38AM (#1161564) Journal

              stemming mainly on medical examples

              The conclusion: thermodynamic processes are highly inefficient. Also, never try to warm up your feet by repeatedly hitting them with a hammer - it will take a very long time [youtube.com].

              --
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
            • (Score: 3, Informative) by deimtee on Saturday July 31 2021, @03:18AM (1 child)

              by deimtee (3272) on Saturday July 31 2021, @03:18AM (#1161603) Journal

              Calories are what messes up the medical examples. What medicine/diet refers to as a Calorie - as in "you need to eat about 1600 Calories a day" - is actually a kilo-calorie.

              How many joules in a calorie? 4.1858
              How many joules in a Calorie? 4185.8

              --
              If you cough while drinking cheap red wine it really cleans out your sinuses.
              • (Score: 2) by acid andy on Sunday August 01 2021, @10:25PM

                by acid andy (1683) on Sunday August 01 2021, @10:25PM (#1162072) Homepage Journal

                I don't know about you, but I find the ubiquitous usage of Calorie to mean kilocalorie really irritating.

                --
                If a cat has kittens, does a rat have rittens, a bat bittens and a mat mittens?
      • (Score: 2) by bzipitidoo on Friday July 30 2021, @02:01PM (1 child)

        by bzipitidoo (4388) on Friday July 30 2021, @02:01PM (#1161362) Journal

        When it comes to water, crazy has been all too frequent. I have heard of proposals to pipe water from the Great Lakes to Arizona, and from NE Australia clear across the continent to S Australia. There were these ideas to tow icebergs from the arctic to Los Angeles, as well as build more canals to L. A from as far away as Canada.

        Think it's San Diego that fought down their squeamishness to use a more easily processed source of water: sewage. Seems it's easier and less energy intensive to reclaim and purify that water than to desalinate ocean water.

        • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Saturday July 31 2021, @12:50AM

          by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Saturday July 31 2021, @12:50AM (#1161571) Journal

          Seems it's easier and less energy intensive to reclaim and purify that water than to desalinate ocean water.

          I would expect to be so.

          --
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 30 2021, @06:54PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 30 2021, @06:54PM (#1161451)

        that's enough to pump Mississippi water from Baton Rouge back to Yellowstone park.

        You might want to check a map, cuz you're off by about an order of magnitude.

        • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Saturday July 31 2021, @01:18AM

          by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Saturday July 31 2021, @01:18AM (#1161578) Journal

          Just checked: Yellowstone Lake/Surface elevation - 2,357 m
          1% of 230km = 2.3km = 2300m. Somewhere there, give or take.

          --
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
  • (Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 30 2021, @02:08AM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 30 2021, @02:08AM (#1161241)

    Water water everywhere but not a drop to drink...

    AC: Drink whisky, fool.

    • (Score: 0, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 30 2021, @03:55AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 30 2021, @03:55AM (#1161273)

      Jeeze. it's a reference to Coleridge's Ancient Mariner.

      SoylentNews needs to recruit better "audience", but that won't happen with the illiterate "editors" we have now.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 30 2021, @02:11AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 30 2021, @02:11AM (#1161242)

    Let's party!

  • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday July 30 2021, @04:15PM (1 child)

    by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Friday July 30 2021, @04:15PM (#1161391) Journal

    All the way back in college, around the turn of the last decade, I was telling people the Midwest needs to switch its production and start looking into arid-climate crops: fonio, teff, sorghum, basically what gets grown in Africa in heat-stressed regions. The giant wheat and corn lobbies would never let it happen, is the problem. I think we also need to put more land under cultivation and do it less intensively.

    --
    I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Reziac on Saturday July 31 2021, @04:01AM

      by Reziac (2489) on Saturday July 31 2021, @04:01AM (#1161618) Homepage

      Wheat is mostly dryland, not irrigated; there is even desert-adapted wheat. Pretty much all the arable land in the west (and there isn't all that much) that's too dry for other crops is in wheat or barley. Irrigation water is seldom available, so rain (and snow cover for winter wheat) is what you get. My uncle's ranch (somewhere upward of 30,000 acres) grows wheat where it can, runs cows and sheep where it can't, and none of it is irrigated.

      If you switch away from wheat, you don't just affect wheat; you kill the entire breadstuffs industry (and have to replace perhaps a billion dollars worth of farm equipment). Most of the minor grains and replacements have issues that make difficult large-scale harvesting, and unlike Africa, we don't have a population who can be satisfied with a bowl of cooked grits. It should also be noted that we export somewhere around half the crop, largely to Africa (which cannot feed itself).

      Corn is mixed. Some hereabouts is irrigated, some not. When the river is right there anyway, might as well irrigate from it (the surplus eventually winds up back in the river, or percolates into the ground water, and in spring the irrigation system reduces the risk of flooding). East of the "arid line" (see the old map someone posted) more often your problem in farmland is too much water making potholes and bogs, so might as well redistribute some of the water onto crops.

      Soybeans are the real water hog, that can't do without. Same for all the "table vegetables". But veggies are far more profitable than corn or wheat, so everyone grows 'em when they can. This is why arid California grows so many thirsty crops... they're worth a lot more in the market. But the gallon per calorie ratio sucks.

      I use water from an irrigation ditch myself (the cost is built into my property tax) because otherwise I wouldn't have an edibles garden (which in season feeds me, my sister, my mom, their spouses, and occasionally friends and neighbors) nor fruit trees. If you were here, I'd inflict a few zucchini on you. :)

      --
      And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
  • (Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Friday July 30 2021, @05:00PM

    by hendrikboom (1125) Subscriber Badge on Friday July 30 2021, @05:00PM (#1161401) Homepage Journal

    Anybody have reliable information about what happens to sea level when *all* the glaciers melt? Yes, including all of Antarctica, not just the bits floating on water.

  • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 30 2021, @05:02PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 30 2021, @05:02PM (#1161402)

    2021
    And still most of those affected don't believe

    Some acknowledge global warming’s role, but most say they are victims of bad government policy in what’s been framed as a battle between farmer and fish. Now, homeowners are in the mix.

  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by hendrikboom on Friday July 30 2021, @05:02PM

    by hendrikboom (1125) Subscriber Badge on Friday July 30 2021, @05:02PM (#1161403) Homepage Journal

    Try Paulo Bacigalupi's book, The Water Knife.

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