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from the poo-pill-prescriptions-provide-partial-protection dept.
In a battle against an infection, antibiotics can bring victory over enemy germs. Yet that war-winning aid can come with significant collateral damage; microbial allies and innocents are killed off, too. Such casualties may be unavoidable in some cases, but a lot of people take antibiotics when they're not necessary or appropriate. And the toll of antibiotics on a healthy microbiome can, in some places, be serious, a new study suggests.
In two randomized, placebo-controlled trials of healthy people, a single course of oral antibiotics altered the composition and diversity of the gut microbiome for months, and in some cases up to a year. Such shifts could clear the way for pathogens, including the deadly Clostridium difficile. Those community changes can also alter microbiome activities, including interacting with the immune system and helping with digestion. Overall, the data, published Tuesday in the journal mBio, suggests that antibiotics may have more side effects than previously thought—at least in the gut.
In the mouth, on the other hand, researchers found that microbial communities fared much better, rebounding in weeks after antibiotic treatments. The finding raises the question of why the oral microbiome is less disturbed by drugs. It could simply be because of the way that antibiotics, taken orally, circulate through the body. Or, it could imply that oral microbiomes are innately more resilient, a quality that would be useful to replicate in microbial communities all over the body.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by SubiculumHammer on Friday November 13 2015, @04:30PM
I wonder if you are currently deeply colonized by a 'fat' carb centric flora biome if initiating with antibiotics then following a strict veggie diet for several months would help change the type of deeply colonized flora one has?
Also, I wonder about preservatives and water chlorine effects on gut flora?
(Score: 3, Interesting) by SubiculumHammer on Friday November 13 2015, @04:35PM
Not a biologist, but I have a hypothesis about red meat. Eating red meat is associated withcancer and with changes in the gut biome. I hypothesize that the flora that ferment red meats cause inflammation, because our bodies are also red meat, and that flora will also try to ferment our bodies. Meanwhile flora that ferment fowl and veggies might cause less inflammation. Just a hypothesis.
(Score: 4, Informative) by Gravis on Friday November 13 2015, @05:05PM
Not a biologist, but I have a hypothesis about red meat.
congratulations, you have formed a specious argument! :D
Eating red meat is associated with cancer
this is partially correct. a more correct answer is that improperly cooked foods with high numbers of proteins are associated with cancer. the problem is a) when you burn something like meat, you scramble the proteins in that burnt area and b) when you cook with hydrocarbons (gas/coal/wood), some of it sticks to the food. the result of these two things is a serious barrage on your DNA. guess which food is burnt by a grill the most? you guessed it: read meat!
dont worry, your secret [brobible.com] is safe with me!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 13 2015, @05:08PM
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 13 2015, @05:26PM
Eating red meat is associated with cancer and with changes in the gut biome.
The preservatives which are commonly used to keep red meat red should be the primary suspect, not the meat itself.
(Score: 2) by mhajicek on Friday November 13 2015, @10:25PM
CO2?
The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Reziac on Saturday November 14 2015, @03:02AM
Erm...
http://feinmantheother.com/2015/11/10/red-meat-and-cancer/ [feinmantheother.com]
As to the trials... how do we know their previous gut biome was optimal, or even normal? might be their previous flora was in various ways screwed up, and had been so a long time. In fact I'd investigate the possibility that what was now missing was actually an invading species, or a chance colonizer that doesn't matter one way or the other... because just everyday living should offer plentiful opportunity for recolonization, if that bacterium belongs there. Or maybe the subject acquired it elsewhere but has since moved to an environment where that species doesn't occur. Our gut bacteria don't spontaneously generate; we ingest them from our environment (including whatever sources arrive via the very food we eat).
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 3, Informative) by nitehawk214 on Friday November 13 2015, @05:39PM
There are some treatments that do exactly this. There was one with a "fecal transplant" which cured certain diseases.
You may google search that term at your own risk.
"Don't you ever miss the days when you used to be nostalgic?" -Loiosh
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 13 2015, @08:06PM
It's still done, they stick a tube down your throat and pump someone elses shit into it.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 13 2015, @04:39PM
poop.
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 13 2015, @04:50PM
Eat poop with good brain and good bodies...
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Thexalon on Friday November 13 2015, @04:50PM
Antibiotics kill bacteria. Film at 11.
That's why I've never understood the American obsession with anti-bacterial everything: It's not bacteria that are bad, it's bad bacteria that are bad. But there's all sorts of indifferent bacteria and even beneficial bacteria, and some bacteria that is sometimes good and sometimes bad (e.g. E. Coli), so going after bacteria in general is a bad idea unless somebody is dealing with a large amount of bad bacteria. And of course prescribing antibiotics for viral infections is a practice that should really be going away - if the doc wants to do *something* so the patient thinks they'll get better, why not hand out placebos instead?
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 2) by fishybell on Friday November 13 2015, @06:00PM
Because that's against the law; at least here in the US. I would 100% be in favor of switching this around if I didn't think that doctors wouldn't start prescribing placebos to people they don't like like minorities, LGBT individuals, what not. Even if they weren't aware they were doing it, they almost definitely would [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 14 2015, @12:53AM
Lets play a game.
A patient comes in with an infection, that could potentially be life threatening, and you know that:
1. You won't get test results in a reasonable enough time if the infection is dangerous.
2. There are no broad-specturm antivirals and very few antivirals in general.
3. If something bad happens to the patient, then it is your ass on the line and you are the one that has to live with the aftermath/guilt.
What do you do?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 13 2015, @05:34PM
Get yourself a bottle of "Jarrow Formulas Sacharomyces Boulardii & MOS" and it'll replenish your gut bugs. Warning... your farts will smell like a barnyard for awhile.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Kawumpa on Friday November 13 2015, @08:26PM
You could do that, but unfortunately the probiotics you get as over the counter supplement are not what makes up the majority of a healthy microbiome, or at least the ones that matter the most. So yeah, take those if you've got money burning a hole in your pocket.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 13 2015, @09:34PM
They worked fine for me. Only had to take them for three weeks, then regular diet maintains the gut bugs. Yogurt helps too. But like I said, the farts smell like horseshit.
(Score: 2) by el_oscuro on Saturday November 14 2015, @12:30AM
Why not just eat yoghurt? It has the same probiotics as the pills and cost less, plus is actual food.
SoylentNews is Bacon! [nueskes.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 14 2015, @12:55AM
Lactobacillus will not survive your stomach.
You could try to take antacids first and see if that helps.
(Score: 2) by ese002 on Tuesday November 17 2015, @02:32AM
The obvious case being those who are lactose intolerant
It is reasonably common among those with chronic digestive issues to be unable to tolerate yoghurt even without being lactose intolerant. I am one. Yoghurt seems like it would be a good idea but it makes me very quickly gassy and the negative effect persist for hours, even days.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 13 2015, @07:10PM
I took an antibiotic as malaria prophylactic when I visited SE Asia 20 years ago. I was there only for two weeks, but you have to keep taking it for a week after I came home. Ever since, I've become a fart machine till this day.
Well, that's my story, and I'm sticking to it.
(Score: 1) by Waraqa on Friday November 13 2015, @08:58PM
Antibiotics should be avoided whenever possible. Once I had a diarrhea for a week and the doctor prescribed an antibiotic for me without any lab test. I felt slightly better but I suffered from gut problems for a few months. Another doctor told me I would have been cured without taking it.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 13 2015, @09:42PM
Antibiotics should be taken whenever possilbe. I had an ear/sinus infection for several months thinking it would go away on its own. Then went to the doctor who prescribed antibiotics and it went away in a few days.
(Score: 1) by Waraqa on Saturday November 14 2015, @06:41PM
Did you try natural medicine and herbs? Onion, garlic, ginger, sage, honey...etc can be used as natural antibiotics without causing side effects of modern medicine.
(Score: 1) by Kawumpa on Friday November 13 2015, @09:49PM
That's the bad thing in a nutshell: Doctors prescribing antibiotics without ever testing for the bacteria causing your problems. It's bad for the individual patient because the antibiotic you're taking may or may not target the bug you got. Doctors get around this problem with broad spectrum antibiotics. So they are treating not only for the malicious bacteria (if any, didn't test) but also many of the normally benign germs. Constant overkill causes antibiotic resistant strains a lot faster than was necessary. Great for the general population.
In essence: In case your doctor prescribes antibiotics without any lab tests, change your doctor.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 14 2015, @01:03AM
If your doctor doesn't prescribe antibiotics when you might need them, then you might want to change your doctor.
Less antibiotic use is a good idea from a public health standpoint but what is best for the public isn't necessarily best for the individual. If you happen to be unlucky, then your infection may progress too quickly for the delayed treatment to catch up.
(Score: 1) by Kawumpa on Monday November 16 2015, @01:35AM
If your doctor doesn't prescribe antibiotics when you might need them, then you might want to change your doctor.
Less antibiotic use is a good idea from a public health standpoint but what is best for the public isn't necessarily best for the individual. If you happen to be unlucky, then your infection may progress too quickly for the delayed treatment to catch up.
Errr, no one ever said that a doctor shouldn't prescribe antibiotics when they are needed. Testing for pathogens to allow for targeted treatment is always recommended. Sure, in life threatening circumstances you should be given treatment but the tests still have to be conducted to adapt treatment if necessary in case the initial course was wrong.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 14 2015, @01:58PM
Antibiotic resistance is horrible for the general population. We're getting pushed back to dark ages where we cannot treat disease.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 13 2015, @09:42PM
The medical research community has no idea what it is going on. On top of this, the reigns have been taken over by scammers and MBA types quite a few decades back. It should scare you to go to the doctor/hospital almost as much as the medical problem scares you. In some cases it may be worth the risk, but think hard. Think hard about how our understanding of the human body is rudimentary, and the vast majority of those responsible for studying it don't understand statistics (despite that they use them incorrectly constantly) or the scientific method (independent replications, etc).