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from the putt-putt-putt-putt-putt-putt dept.
A Google small neighorbood electric vehicle (aka golf cart) was recently pulled over while traveling on an extremely busy main thoroughfare in the Silicon Valley and a cute story is forming in the media about a cop who pulls over a car with no driver for no reason. What happened you ask? The car was driving slowly, 24 mph (40 kmh) in a 35 mph (55 kmh) and had a chain of other cars behind it being held up. The Google team even acts as if this is some kind of badge of honor: Driving too slowly? Bet humans don't get pulled over for that too often.
Yes, well, they do in fact get pulled over exactly for things like this. California has a law about holding up traffic on a highway. California has a law about driving at speeds so low they are dangerous because differences with other vehicles are too high. None of those laws were broken here as the Google vehicle was never actually operating outside of the law. However being inside the law isn't what we should be analyzing.
When was the last time you saw a golf cart holding up traffic on a major street in a major city? If you saw that would you think it was cute? What kind of jerk would think that was appropriate then respond that its fine because driving that slow makes things safer. The Google car and worse, the Google team. Yay?
(Score: 4, Funny) by Nr_9 on Saturday November 14 2015, @11:55AM
I know horrible, horrible news like this Google car scandal clouds the lives of everyone on the planet. We all react differently. Some react with anger, lashing out at a world we can no longer control, others sink into lethargic depression, giving up even trying to struggle against the encroaching might of our coming robot overlords.
My only advice is to take a deep breath, realise that while these terrible tragedies do happen, we can still enjoy life where we are. At least until we are fed into the furnaces by giant killer UAVs.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by RedBear on Saturday November 14 2015, @11:56AM
cmn32480 gets an editor demerit for allowing this sensationalist crap through the pipeline. The newsy part of this submission ends at the end of the first paragraph. The rest is just angry ranting by someone who almost seems to have a personal issue with Google.
Bad editor. No cookie.
¯\_ʕ◔.◔ʔ_/¯ LOL. I dunno. I'm just a bear.
... Peace out. Got bear stuff to do. 彡ʕ⌐■.■ʔ
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 14 2015, @01:26PM
Editors should not post stories submitted by FNGs with the word Troll right in their user name.
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Saturday November 14 2015, @07:00PM
FWIW, to call El Camino in Mountain View a highway is to misuse the term. It is, officially, a highway, but in practice it's a multilane local boulevard (without the trees in the center). I don't know what the time of day was, but it's often impossible to drive 35 MPH on that street. It's three lanes wide (in most of Mountain View) so if cars were backed up either the traffic was so dense that it had already slowed, or they didn't want to change lanes for some reason.
This really *seems* to be a "nothing happening here" story.
P.S.: El Camino is called a highway because it's officially US 101 business route. The freeway is just a bit to the East, and the Central Expressway is between the El Camino and the freeway. In the 1950's it really was the highway, but that's awhile ago now.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Knowledge Troll on Saturday November 14 2015, @07:56PM
to call El Camino in Mountain View a highway is to misuse the term
Ah that is not an association I had intended to cause though the paragraph is pretty ambiguous. It was an incomplete description of my thought process. Your analysis even demonstrates it technically is a highway though functionally is not which I agree is accurate. I was intending to draw attention to the law regarding yielding to traffic on a highway when N cars are being held up as it is essentially minimum courtesy encoded in legislation.
This really *seems* to be a "nothing happening here" story.
I disagree which is why I decided to frame my submission in terms of jerks on the road to draw some attention to the disconnect between robots and non-yielding slowpokes. I haven't lived in the area for about 8 years now, long before NEV was on anyone's radar. Is it common to find NEV on El Camino Real? If so, then this is not a big deal. If the robot car isn't programmed to avoid spots and situations that humans do that is a point, discovered during testing, that should be improved.
It would have been good for me to include this part [mountainviewpoliceblog.com] in the original summary:
This afternoon a Mountain View Police Department traffic officer noticed traffic backing up behind a slow moving car traveling in the eastbound #3 lane on El Camino Real, near Rengstorff Ave.
I can't entirely figure out what happened either but I'll give the officer some benefit of the doubt. The car would not have even been on his mind if something wasn't going on that was out of the ordinary. I don't think the media draws attention to non-optimized routing and focuses more on feelings about the situation. Shaking that up sure unleashed a foaming at the mouth can of worms that converted me into a tail-gaiting jerk that is running bicyclists off the road. In reality the dumb asses of the world tailgate me like crazy while I try to maintain safe following distances and give others respect on the road.
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Sunday November 15 2015, @07:47PM
If that's the car I think it was, the police officer could tell at a distance that it was a Google car. The things look like toys. This was an intentional design choice on Google's part, as they wanted to cars to look non-threatening. And I suspect some of the cars lined up behind it (at least the closest one) were lined up precisely BECAUSE it was an obviously Google self-driving car. They wanted to watch it.
What I suspect of causing the traffic jam was drivers passing it slowing down to get a good look at it. This happens whenever something interesting is happening along the roadway. Gawkers at accidents are a common cause of traffic jams, commonly even more than the accident itself. (Not if it blocks a lane or two, of course.) And I suspect the officer of pulling it over because HE wanted to get a good look at it. (Naturally, this would not be the reason in the report, and the listed reason is a reasonable justifier, so I may be wrong.)
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by bradley13 on Saturday November 14 2015, @12:02PM
It isn't all that unusual.
Construction equipment often drives far below the speed limit. If you live in a semi-rural area, you'll get stuck behind farm equipment. There are occasionally other types of vehicles that have their own, maximum speed that is lower than the speed limit on the road. If the driver is going a long distance, and notes a big queue behind, it's common courtesy to pull over to let traffic pass.
In the case of Google, it's hardly cute - it's much more an indication that they are still figuring out how to get their cars to behave in a normal and expected fashion. We've all read the accident statistics: self-driving cars aren't technically at fault in very many accidents, but they do seem to provoke accidents where the other driver is at fault. Most likely cause: unexpected behavior, for example, driving too slowly for no discernible reason. Nothing to be proud of, just a problem to be fixed.
Everyone is somebody else's weirdo.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Saturday November 14 2015, @01:45PM
I grew up in west central Florida in the 1970s - highest death rate per capita in the nation, primary cause: old age. Needless to say, there were plenty of human drivers in my town who would happily pull out in front of you (because they can't discern objects more than 300' away), and then drive 20mph in a 45 zone. These humans were also politically active and shaped the police behavior in the town - they never got tickets, or even pulled over, for that kind of behavior.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 14 2015, @09:05PM
(Score: 5, Insightful) by darkfeline on Saturday November 14 2015, @03:12PM
I think expecting other drivers to be pushing and/or breaking the speed limit is the real problem, not driving below those unreal expectations. (Maybe the speed limits are too low, but that's no excuse for breaking the law, especially for autonomous cars in their infancy.)
Join the SDF Public Access UNIX System today!
(Score: 1) by turonah on Tuesday November 17 2015, @10:20AM
This was my thought when reading the blurb as well - drivers getting irritated because "how dare someone else slow me down, regardless of safety". Just sums up our attitudes with cars and how commonplace operating 1000 kgs of speeding metal has become.
(Score: 1) by Knowledge Troll on Saturday November 14 2015, @05:13PM
I have a feeling lots of people here drive like total assholes and don't care. Not because they want to be assholes but they don't seem to be able to think in terms of using the road in a way that minimizes problems instead of just being oblivious to them.
Sigh.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 14 2015, @09:03PM
Google's vehicle was in the "#3 lane", meaning that there were two lanes to the left of it. People could use those lanes for passing. Unless there are at least five lanes going in the same direction, the Google car was in one of the two rightmost lanes, where slow-moving traffic is supposed to be.
Now if the traffic in the #2 lane was going much faster than the Google car, and the other users of the #3 lane also wanted to go much faster than Google's car, so that every few seconds another vehicle would pass it, that is probably more dangerous than going at a similar speed to everyone else (think about what happens when it's side-swiped).
(Score: 5, Insightful) by ledow on Saturday November 14 2015, @12:59PM
No.
The people I don't want on the roads are idiots like the poster.
People doing 25 in a 35 are fine. It's the dickheads coming up behind them wanting to do 45 no matter what hazards may be ahead that are the problem.
If you get that tense and annoyed just overtake him when safe.
If you get that tense and annoyed just WAITING to overtake, then I do not want you on the road. You obviously have no self-control and shouldn't be in charge of a ton of metal capable of moving at 100mph.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 14 2015, @03:26PM
People doing 25 on 35 zone without any real reason like weather conditions or other kind of hazardous situation are definately not fine. If you can't drive according to speed limits then you have no business being there. You are an ass too.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 14 2015, @04:19PM
If you can't drive according to speed limits then you have no business being there. You are an ass too.
The 35 is a maximum speed limit, not the minimum. It's a PUBLIC road fascist pig. Seems to me you're the asshole. What next? Tell old people they are an ass if they walk too slowly on a public sidewalk?
35 zones aren't high speed zones by definition, so if people want to drive at 25 in those zones for whatever non-malicious reason (enjoy the scenery, vehicle/driver can't go so fast) as long as they are not on the overtaking lane, YOU should learn to live with it.
If they are driving slowly on the overtaking lane and they aren't overtaking any vehicles and there are no other vehicles ahead forcing them to go that slow, then yes they are an ass. But otherwise just because someone is driving slower than you want them to doesn't make them an ass. You are the ass for requiring them to drive faster.
If there's only one lane, well too bad, overtake them when you can do so safely and legally.
Yes I too get annoyed when I'm stuck behind someone driving/walking slower and I want to get to some place faster. BUT that doesn't make them an ass. The world doesn't revolve around me, nor around my needs and wants. Other people have their own needs too. The assholes are those who tailgate people and make things more dangerous, and/or cause traffic jams when stuff happens and they can't stop in time.
That said, the google car has a long way to go if it can only have a good safety record by driving at 25 mph...
(Score: 1) by Knowledge Troll on Saturday November 14 2015, @05:08PM
Yes I too get annoyed when I'm stuck behind someone driving/walking slower and I want to get to some place faster. BUT that doesn't make them an ass.
The car is an ass because the routing is bad: why does it not cross the busy roads at right angles? Is it because Google thinks it should drive 25 in a 35 to make it safer? Or is it because they didn't think about it and still didn't think about it and aren't going to correct it after this problem?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 14 2015, @06:38PM
http://dailycaller.com/2015/11/13/google-is-bad-for-traffic/ [dailycaller.com] Was article on google news :)
(Score: 1) by Knowledge Troll on Saturday November 14 2015, @07:24PM
http://dailycaller.com/2015/11/13/google-is-bad-for-traffic/ [dailycaller.com]Was article on google news :)
Haha wow that really made me laugh. Thank you!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 14 2015, @05:08PM
I suppose you are one of those people that thinks bicycles belong on the side-walk mixed with all of the pedestrian traffic.
Bicycles have fewer fatal collisions (per hour driven, not mile driven) because they have a top speed of like 30MPH. In the kinetic energy equation, the speed term is squared. Even with airbags and crumple zones, comming to an abrupt stop at high speeds is dangerous.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 14 2015, @06:46PM
If you get that tense and annoyed on the internet you obviously have no self-control and shouldn't be in charge of a ton of metal capable of moving at 100mph.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 16 2015, @01:27AM
25 in the 35 generally ends up being more unsafe than otherwise, since general traffic will probably be moving at 35 (in practice, most traffic is probably doing around 50 because the speed limit shouldn't have been 35 in the first place (which is a totally different point, but hey), so that 25MPH car is really sticking out like a sore thumb). It sounds safer (hey, less speed, if you hit something, your expected injuries become drastically less severe the slower you go), until you introduce the human factor (generally, people rushing to work or something or other).
Going too slow generally results in getting hit in the back by the guy not paying enough attention. Down here in FL, that's a major issue (often involving the elderly -- whether it's the elderly going way too slow and getting hit, or going way too fast for themselves to handle at their age and hitting someone).
Man, now I wonder how the Google car would fare down here? It'd probably be totaled in the first week.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday November 14 2015, @01:42PM
Cops are somewhat stupid. They'll pull the guy over for going 5, 10 or more mph over the limit, and never even look at they guy driving below the limit.
Let's say that I have a livestock trailer full of human cargo. Am I going to speed? No - I'm going to stay below the speed limit, because I KNOW the cops aren't going to come after me. Or, I've got a trunk full of drugs. Or, I'm headed home from my latest serial killing, and my clothes are covered in blood. The cops are far more interested in the chase, than in apprehending criminals.
I once drove about fifteen miles, behind some fool driving 8 to 12 mph below the speed limit. A cop was following directly behind that slow car. I passed the cop and the slowpoke. 7 or 8 miles further up the road, I entered a city limit, then I was stopped at a red light. The cop came up behind me, and flashed his lights, demanding to know where the emergency was. I told him flat out that the slow car he was following was the emergency. The turkey at the wheel probably had something to hide, and couldn't afford to be pulled over, whereas, I had nothing to hide and was perfectly happy to pass a cop.
The idiot just didn't "get it".
(Score: 3, Funny) by deadstick on Saturday November 14 2015, @02:42PM
The turkey at the wheel probably had something to hide, and couldn't afford to be pulled over
Wow, I haven't flashed on Cheech & Chong in years...;-)
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday November 14 2015, @03:14PM
Real life C&C? A woman who I had an interest in needed to get from Chicago to Hot Springs, years ago. She accepted a ride with an acquaintance. She was warned ahead of time, the driver was kind of weird. She figured, "Whatever, I've got to get there somehow - how weird can a driver be?" The driver turned out to be really weird. He drove 10 mph below the limit, all the way. He set his cruise control exactly 10 mph below the limit, each and every time the speed limit changed. And, he laid a "big ass" revolver in his lap as he drove.
The lady who I was interested in decided that she needed to choose her freinds and acquaintances more wisely.
Actually, it was less Cheech and Chong, than it was Godfather.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 14 2015, @02:24PM
California has some basic speed laws... including 5 or more vehicles following you, you must pull over (where it is saft) and allow them to all pass you. This for farm equipment or cars. ( I learned to drive in CA while living on a farm).
It sounds more like it is warning ticket to write but to whom? Is why this is news. Whom to write the ticket to and vehicle brand and model.
UPS got out of a lot of parking tivkets in NY, when they pointed outt that "UPS truck" was not the legal type of vehicle so the tickets where invalid. The writer was required to but down the frame manufacture (gmc, ford, international, ....) which was not branded on the outside of the truck.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 14 2015, @02:51PM
I'm getting really tired of all these sensationalist posts from people who have a beef with the development of autonomous cars:
- Oh noes, they act unpredictably because they actually tend to follow the rules of the road to the letter!
- Oh noes, they drive too slowly, how am I ever going to cope with that!
Is this FUD really all you can come up with?! Here's my response to this bullshit:
- These vehicles were not designed to drive on highways, so driving too slowly is a moot point.
- If you hate driving behind slow vehicles, I advise you to never go to the countryside. You might get stuck behind a tractor. The horror!
- These vehicles in the news today are PROTOTYPES used for DEVELOPMENT and TESTING. They will not flood the streets tomorrow. Stop making a big deal out of them.
- These and other potential problems will all be solved or at least dealt with before mass produced autonomous vehicles are allowed on the market.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Saturday November 14 2015, @02:57PM
Another suggestion is for those who are complaining to switch their transportation mode to bicycle, then 20mph will feel fast.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 1) by Knowledge Troll on Saturday November 14 2015, @05:25PM
I'm the troll?
These vehicles were not designed to drive on highways, so driving too slowly is a moot point.
Ok.
These vehicles in the news today are PROTOTYPES used for DEVELOPMENT and TESTING.
Yes.
These and other potential problems will all be solved or at least dealt with before mass produced autonomous vehicles are allowed on the market.
So, wait. According to your reasoning: it is slow, that is not a problem. It is new and going through testing, so that is not a problem. It does not yet avoid clogging up a road and that's a problem but they'll fix it by the time it is no longer a prototype.
Isn't an important part of fixing the problem acknowledging one exists? Because I don't see Google doing that. Do you?
Here is a mental exercise: can you get a golf cart across the Silicon Valley with out pissing off a lot of people in the process? Here is a tip: you might want to keep the small neighborhood electric vehicle inside of neighborhoods the majority of the time. Some kind of intelligent comp-sci person might even be able to find some kind of way to score a route and prioritize that if the vehicle can't go very fast.
Maybe you should get a job at Google on the car?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 14 2015, @03:13PM
The day after the Paris attacks, they switched their home page back to vanilla. No cute stuff today.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 14 2015, @03:49PM
Yesterday. But technically, it was a Toyota Prius.
The Prius is today's stereotypical "bad driver's car". In prior decades, it would probably have been some blue-haired old lady in a 1970's Buick Electra, but now you see ultra-slow drivers in a Prius. The age of the driver doesn't seem to matter; it's now a factor of the apathy of the driver towards the art of driving. And it's disheartening to see that what could have been the solution to this problem is going to be as bad as, if not worse than, the original problem. (Actually, I think that last phrase could summarize almost all of Google's efforts these days.)
(Score: 1) by Knowledge Troll on Saturday November 14 2015, @05:37PM
The age of the driver doesn't seem to matter; it's now a factor of the apathy of the driver towards the art of driving.
The knee-jerk reactions of the posters here are extremely worrying for me because of what you just pointed out. They seem to be unable to out think the route and behavior of this obviously not optimized antonymous vehicle system. If these are drivers that aren't even as smart as a prototype robot so they can't even figure out when to fault it for driving like a dick I'll be glad when the autonomous vehicles come around because the car companies will do it better and Google will have to catch up even if computer nerds give them an unreasonable pass for no reason.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by frojack on Saturday November 14 2015, @08:58PM
Any time you have to post this many times trying in vain to defend your own submission it should stand out as a clear indication that your whole approach was wrong and trolling.
You lost your audience the instant you made your bias so blatantly obvious. Golf cart? Really?
Chock it up to experience and learn to include some balance in your submissions.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 1) by Knowledge Troll on Saturday November 14 2015, @09:41PM
I've been keeping an eye on the mod points since posting AC and after. Thanks for the tips, I'll find a smoother way of delivery.
(Score: 2) by jdavidb on Sunday November 15 2015, @01:53AM
they can't even figure out when to fault it for driving like a dick
My life is so much happier since I quit blaming people for problems. I'm such a better problem solver, too.
ⓋⒶ☮✝🕊 Secession is the right of all sentient beings
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 14 2015, @04:05PM
"These vehicles in the news today are PROTOTYPES used for DEVELOPMENT and TESTING."
Being developed in one of the area's WORST places to drive, thanks to Google Cars, Google Busses, and the G-Tards that
crown into a once great area to live in.
I'm counting the days when I can GTF out of this Google-made hell hole.
They should just rename Mountain View to Googleville. It's a company-owned town now.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 15 2015, @10:24AM
So they should just test these things on some empty stretch of road in the mid-west, to avoid inconveniencing anyone? Great idea! Except for the fact you need to be able to test in real-world conditions, which also includes those worst places to drive, otherwise the test is meaningless.
(Score: 3, Informative) by jdavidb on Saturday November 14 2015, @04:14PM
ⓋⒶ☮✝🕊 Secession is the right of all sentient beings
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Knowledge Troll on Saturday November 14 2015, @05:05PM
Is it opinion? Yes. Is it trollish? Yes. Is this something you need to think about? Yes.
The people I don't want on the roads are idiots like the poster.
You don't actually know how I drive - I don't drive fast and I don't tailgate. I drive with high efficiency and respect and am frequently tailgated.
When I am slowing people down I get out of their way!
The rest is just angry ranting by someone who almost seems to have a personal issue with Google.
I've got a problem with magical thinking and reverse guilt by association (the car must be good because it was made by Google so it can do things humans are not allowed to do)
Construction equipment often drives far below the speed limit.
Bicycles and other slow vehicles as well all have to *share* the road.
Here's a question: can't Google apologize for clogging the road up and say that they will work on adjusting the routing so that slow vehicles such as an NEV can route smarter like avoiding a major road by crossing it at right angles or minimizing time on the road to only left turns? That's how you drive slowly and with minimizing being a dick.
The robot car isn't programmed well and the programmers don't seem like they are interested in improving this aspect. That's pretty cruddy.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 15 2015, @05:27AM
Cops pull over unusual cars all the time. This guy just was bored and wanted to get a look at the google car. He used the law as an excuse to do so.
Dont think so?
http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2015/04/20/playmate-of-the-year-amx-returns-to-its-original-pink/ [hemmings.com]
My bets are the google car was doing nothing wrong per-se but the cop wanted a good look... But he can say 'see law xyz says I can'.
In all the time I have been driving I have only seen one other person get a ticket for being bellow the speed limit. But stopping in the middle of the road because someone thought we were ridding too close. The cop behind us didnt find it as funny.