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from the there-are-acceptable-levels-of-lead-poisoning? dept.
Some neighborhoods in California are experiencing levels of lead that exceed those measured in Flint, Michigan:
Dozens of California communities have experienced recent rates of childhood lead poisoning that surpass those of Flint, Michigan, with one Fresno locale showing rates nearly three times higher, blood testing data obtained by Reuters shows.
The data shows how lead poisoning affects even a state known for its environmental advocacy, with high rates of childhood exposure found in a swath of the Bay Area and downtown Los Angeles. And the figures show that, despite national strides in eliminating lead-based products, hazards remain in areas far from the Rust Belt or East Coast regions filled with old housing and legacy industry.
In one central Fresno zip code, 13.6 percent of blood tests on children under six years old came back high for lead. That compares to 5 percent across the city of Flint during its recent water contamination crisis. In all, Reuters found at least 29 Golden State neighborhoods where children had elevated lead tests at rates at least as high as in Flint.
Interactive map of U.S. lead hotspots.
(Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 23 2017, @10:04PM (13 children)
In yet another bid to outdo Obama he already has a higher record of lead in the water supply.
(Score: 0, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 23 2017, @10:19PM (9 children)
Hooray! You got your sarcastic comment about Trump in! Only 10 more to go for the daily quota! Of course this article has nothing to do with politics, but you inserted yours anyway.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by bob_super on Thursday March 23 2017, @10:41PM (5 children)
> this article has nothing to do with politics
Sure, it doesn't.
Because refusing to pay enough taxes to maintain infrastructure, or replace dangerous bridges and pipes (especially in impoverished neighborhoods) has nothing to with politics.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 23 2017, @11:44PM
replace dangerous bridges
(a message from the Trolls' United Bridge and General Infrastructure Replacement League)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 24 2017, @04:31AM
The pipes were installed by developers. Should they be liable? If they are dead, maybe their heirs could pay?
The houses are owned by people, some of whom are landlords. Some of these people have replaced some of the pipe, while others did not. If government now pays, it is not fair to the people who already paid. Perhaps they should get cash payouts? With interest? When homeowners are raising families in contaminated homes, should they get in trouble for child abuse? What about landlords, are they guilty of child abuse or perhaps financially liable for the harm?
The houses are subject to local government. Flint didn't care to fix anything, but the neighboring cities have been replacing pipes for decades and are nearly done. If we tax everybody in the USA to pay to fix Flint, aren't we being unfair to the responsible cities? The governments in these bad cities were elected by the people, and the people got the government they deserved. Perhaps the voters should be liable, particularly ones from years past. We could track down former residents, say from 1970 to 1995, and make them pay.
Maybe we could just shut off the water or use Bitrex to make it taste bad. That is really cheap.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday March 24 2017, @11:15AM (2 children)
Because refusing to pay enough taxes to maintain infrastructure, or replace dangerous bridges and pipes (especially in impoverished neighborhoods) has nothing to with politics.
What happens when you pay enough taxes - and it happens anyway? We need to keep in mind that just because one pays taxes, doesn't mean that they get spent well. I think we'll find there is a significant correlation between lead poisoning, especially on public infrastructure like water systems, and government corruption and high non-essential spending like public employee pension funds.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by bob_super on Friday March 24 2017, @04:31PM (1 child)
If you pay high taxes and don't get proper services (especially life-saving ones), you start chopping heads... at the ballot box, then literally.
I'm getting really tired of Americans telling the world they have the best system, but the worst government. Kicking butt around the world but being sheep at home, worshiping a decent but outdated and imperfect constitution, while pledging and singing to a flag which means less every day...
Get your butt off your chair and kick some sense into your ruling class, o former blah-blah-representation people!
Put your pride where it matters, instead of in your truck size...
"Sorry, can't get involved. I've got my little chunk of the American Dream I could lose to the big nebulous scary government" (which is made up of millions of evilmongers, not 99.9% decent people trying, hard or not, to do their jobs under the direction of a thousand lunatics)
Fucking pathetic.
> high non-essential spending like public employee pension funds.
Right, blame the pension funds!
Isn't the Pentagon getting a 10% raise while a hundred thousand bridges are structurally deficient?
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday March 25 2017, @02:05AM
If you pay high taxes and don't get proper services (especially life-saving ones), you start chopping heads... at the ballot box, then literally.
I'm getting really tired of Americans telling the world they have the best system, but the worst government. Kicking butt around the world but being sheep at home, worshiping a decent but outdated and imperfect constitution, while pledging and singing to a flag which means less every day... Get your butt off your chair and kick some sense into your ruling class, o former blah-blah-representation people! Put your pride where it matters, instead of in your truck size...
And I get tired of people calling for more taxes without considering what those taxes get spent on. There's a kit of voters who have gone along with this mess. And a key , if not majority component are the voters who can't be bothered to care where the money goes.
"Sorry, can't get involved. I've got my little chunk of the American Dream I could lose to the big nebulous scary government" (which is made up of millions of evilmongers, not 99.9% decent people trying, hard or not, to do their jobs under the direction of a thousand lunatics) Fucking pathetic.
high non-essential spending like public employee pension funds.
Right, blame the pension funds! Isn't the Pentagon getting a 10% raise while a hundred thousand bridges are structurally deficient?
There's several things to remember here. First, pension funds and Social Security is first and foremost a bribe to the US voter to go along with the status quo. For any attempt at fiscal responsibility has to address these items which are bigger than military spending after the proposed budget hike in large part because they are also increasing faster than the US economy than military spending.
Second, without the significant additional stream of revenue from Social Security over the past 80 years, US military spending wouldn't have gotten as big as it did. Excess revenue gets dumped into the general fund and spent.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 24 2017, @12:04AM (1 child)
Of course this article has nothing to do with politics
It's almost as if it was intended to be a joke rather than a political statement. Nah, couldn't be.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 29 2017, @12:30PM
What makes you think it couldn't?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 24 2017, @12:27AM
If by now you don't think Trump deserves quite a bit of mockery, then you should pull your head from out between your cheeks and say "heewwwoooo" to the world.
(Score: 2) by Sulla on Thursday March 23 2017, @11:15PM (2 children)
Good thing the EPA has been keeping an eye on these things. Hope we give them more money to keep up the great work.
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 23 2017, @11:46PM
"data was released by the California Department of Public Health"
(Score: 2) by tibman on Friday March 24 2017, @02:02PM
I doubt the EPA is tasked with protecting our plumbing. Rivers, yes.
SN won't survive on lurkers alone. Write comments.
(Score: 2) by richtopia on Thursday March 23 2017, @10:28PM (7 children)
I would recommend looking for John Oliver's story on lead on YouTube. It is an easy watch detailing an important environmental concern.
(Score: 2, Disagree) by jmorris on Friday March 24 2017, @01:53AM (6 children)
Because we should get our news from unfunny comedians. Next up Larry the Cable Guy will be laying some serious knowledge on us about SpaceX's latest launch.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday March 24 2017, @02:36AM (5 children)
One of the key signs of an empire in terminal decline is that only its fools and jesters dare to tell the truth to a wide audience. We are officially at the point where satire writes itself; ergo, the kind of mind that, as Franken said, specializes in pointing out absurdity for a living becomes, if only de facto and by accident, the perfect newscaster.
You just don't like it because they're all laughing at you :D
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2, Insightful) by jmorris on Friday March 24 2017, @03:24AM (4 children)
Oh yea, feel the fear, see the courage of the few willing to speak "Truth to Power", see them pat themselves on the back and hand each other awards for their bravery. Lemme give you a hint. When people are putting on bumper stickers about "Bush Hitler" and waving signs about how Trump is "Literally Hitler" it is a sign of virtue signaling only. Try it in Russia and get back to me on bravery. When it is really true you don't dare say it. What people like Oliver do, as low level but integral cogs in the ruling class, is speak "Power to Truth."
John Oliver wouldn't know what Journalism was if it bit him on the butt and neither would his writers. His network would be angry if he wasted their valuable airtime on serious journalism even if he outsourced the writing to someone competent to do the work. Which side he does his politics on really doesn't matter. I love watching Milo's antics but I probably wouldn't be interested in any attempt he made at this subject either. I might watch to see the usual Milo behavior, but expecting to learn something about lead? No. And Milo actually was a working journalist before becoming... what exactly isn't readily quantifiable.
You appear to be like most people these days, unable to even conceptualize what actual journalism would look like. It ain't nothing like the antics of political hacks scoring rhetorical points for laughs. Who, What, When, Where, Why and How; Just the facts. Anything else is analysis best left to smarter people than an ink stained wretch.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday March 24 2017, @04:22AM
Someone sounds just a liiiiiiittle triggered :) Go have a spell on yon fainting couch, J-Mo. Nothing you said invalidates my point.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 24 2017, @04:43AM (1 child)
Virtue Signalling refers to the public expression of an opinion on a given topic primarily for the purpose of displaying one’s moral superiority before a large audience to solicit their approval.
Almost like when right wing conspiracy theorists constantly use the phrase before talking about how much better they are than the person they are responding to.
In this case, it appears to be "You aren't brave, and I know all about journalism. I'm the best at journalism. It's tremendous. Our journalists are the greatest, most talented journalists. Our people are the bravest. Not like your people. They're crap, they just say things to try to make other people think they're great, but they're not, they're bad. Fake and bad.
I know. I'm smart. You aren't smart, but I'm tremendously smart. You and the people you follow are unsmart, it's a little thing called 'ink stains' maybe you've heard the term. Your people aren't funny, not like my people. My guy, Milo, he's tremendous. Really tremendous. Really funny. You'll laugh bigly"
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday March 24 2017, @04:53PM
AC, that was awesome :D I actually laughed out loud reading that. Thank you! The one thing J-Mo and his kind cannot *stand* is being ridiculed.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 3, Insightful) by AthanasiusKircher on Friday March 24 2017, @06:14PM
John Oliver wouldn't know what Journalism was if it bit him on the butt and neither would his writers. His network would be angry if he wasted their valuable airtime on serious journalism even if he outsourced the writing to someone competent to do the work.
Without commenting at all on the quality of Oliver's "journalism" (which seems to be a term used mostly here to pretend that there's a difference between "journalism" and entertainment, when really 98% of the "news" is created in a format to be maximally entertaining and sell ads -- maybe not "funny ha ha" entertaining, but designed to provoke interest more than simply to inform)...
History has long told us that many people are capable of insightful social commentary, even if they aren't "journalists" or whatever -- entertainers, comedians, heck even an occasional commenter here. Whatever your preferred brand of comedy, there's likely some comedian who has at times made insightful points about politics, society, etc. (Personally, I guess I'd have to put George Carlin at the top of my list of entertaining but insightful comedians; you may like someone else.)
What Oliver does is take legitimate issues that don't often receive enough attention and create entertaining ways to allow an audience to spend a few minutes paying attention to something that they'd otherwise skip over in the newspaper or whatever. In the process, they might come away both entertained AND a bit more informed. There may be a lot of "low-hanging fruit" in many of his pieces, but I don't think he's claiming to be some sort of deep investigative journalist trying to find a hidden truth. He's drawing attention to neglected, but frequently important, issues while also being somewhat silly.
It ain't nothing like the antics of political hacks scoring rhetorical points for laughs.
Have you even watched more than 5 minutes of a John Oliver show? I'm not saying it's the best thing ever, and there are things I disagree with him about too. Some of his comedy is successful than it might be too. And yes, he clearly has a favorite political side, and he often makes fun of his opponents (though he also happily makes fun of himself and his allies). But amidst all of that puffery, there are actual issues frequently discussed, which should be concerning regardless of your party affiliation.
So go ahead and criticize his delivery or format or bias, but that doesn't mean he can't also help draw attention to stuff that most people wouldn't think about otherwise. And because he's generally trying to introduce complex issues to people who don't usually pay attention to them, his segments frequently break things down to some basic stuff you need to know, generally coupled with a few outrageous facts that make the importance of the situation clear. (If you don't think his interview of Snowden in Moscow and the subsequent framing of the surveillance argument in terms of accessibility of "dick pics" was a genius move that is simultaneously hilarious AND brings the point home to people who before just didn't get it, I don't know what to say.) I haven't watched the segment on lead, but I'd assume he brings a similar mix to it.
(Score: 1, Redundant) by Immerman on Thursday March 23 2017, @10:37PM (1 child)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Flint lead poisoning crisis ongoing?
"Recent" implies "in the past"
(Score: 2) by MostCynical on Friday March 24 2017, @04:13AM
"Recent" as in "recently mede it into the news", and/or "not forgotten be everyone (yet)"
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 2) by termigator on Thursday March 23 2017, @10:50PM (10 children)
Always pissed me off when the phrase, "unacceptable levels of lead," is used. This is common when products are recalled that tested positive for lead. Such a phrase begs the questions, "What is an acceptable level of lead?"
Congrats to the FTA for including the following:
Emphasis added.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by takyon on Thursday March 23 2017, @10:55PM (4 children)
Is there anywhere outside of a laboratory that does not have a few molecules of lead around? Lead is in dirt all over the goddamn place. So unless you want to spend $100 trillion to collect all the molecules, there has to be an acceptable level of lead, because you are consuming it and breathing it in every day.
"No level of lead exposure is safe" does not conflict with an acceptable level of lead, because it is impossible to reduce all environmental risks to zero. Did you breathe in a tiny amount of auto fumes today? Did it feel acceptable to you, or did you just accept it? Did you even notice it?
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 23 2017, @11:13PM (3 children)
I used to chew Xmas tree tinsel back in the 60s that was made from lead at that time. I didn't suffer from any consequences.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 23 2017, @11:48PM
Scott Pruitt, is that you?
(Score: 3, Funny) by Bogsnoticus on Thursday March 23 2017, @11:56PM
This has been a community announcement from Darth Cheeto.
Genius by birth. Evil by choice.
(Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 24 2017, @12:04AM
Shut up Ethanol.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by Hartree on Friday March 24 2017, @01:18AM (2 children)
"No level of lead exposure is safe"
Then you're unsafe. No matter who you are. No matter where you are from on earth. And this isn't a new thing. You can go back to Australopithecus and Lucy would have had some lead in her body.
This is a meaningless phrase as there has never been a human with zero lead among all the atoms of their body. It gives the impression that somehow having those trace levels of lead removed would be healthier in some way. I strongly suspect it wouldn't, but the experiment has never been done and would be almost impossible to do not only in humans but in animals as well.
Your body is massively parallel for a reason. That way if an individual protein, lipid, carbohydrate, etc molecule (or even a small subset of the protein, lipid, carbohydrate, etc molecules) get screwed up there is no effect on your health. Lead binds to the proteins it screws up, so it isn't a cascade catalytic process. Thus, there has to be at least SOME level that has no detectable effect. And if there is no effect, then saying it is unsafe at that level isn't scientific, but metaphysical.
When they say "no acceptable level", it's not a scientific statement, but a political one.
Sorry to get up on a soapbox, but toxicology is an area where there is an amazing amount of nonsense out there.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by jmorris on Friday March 24 2017, @02:08AM
Amen! And when you combine that attitude of "any amount is unacceptable" with the ever increasing ability of labs to measure ever smaller concentrations it creates whole new levels of stupid.
Everything is a balance. Too much of most things is bad. Low enough and it isn't, or sometimes even good. Don't think anyone has ever even proposed any benefits of lead though, even in tiny quantities.
We really should be working on eliminating as much lead as practical from places where people, especially children, live. This is a real problem and there really isn't a debate about it. Key word being practical, once we lower the levels beyond a certain point we have to stop and we will probably have to decide some mitigation efforts aren't economical and simply buy out the properties and abandon the area until some point in the mysterious future when new tech makes it practical or time has solved the problem on its own.
(Score: 2) by termigator on Tuesday March 28 2017, @04:45PM
You infer a core problem: What is acceptable? We really do not know. We do know that at some exposure levels, it is detrimental to health, with some effects causing permanent damage (especially to those still developing physically and mentally). Lead is also a substance that the body does not eliminate easily, so it can accumalate over time from repeated exposures.
So although the statement, "no exposure safe," can be pendantically categorized as a political statement, science cannot yet state what is safe. Therefore, I think the statement is a appropriate when determining how we deal with lead exposure.
For those interested in the history of the usage of lead in industry and the propaganda industry used to hide the detrimental effects of lead to our health, I recommend the following book:
https://www.amazon.com/Deceit-Denial-Industrial-Pollution-California/dp/0520240634 [amazon.com]
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Friday March 24 2017, @01:25PM (1 child)
Under the current administration, lead is to be recognized as an important mineral and nutrient. The FDA is directed to come up with RDA guidelines for lead.
When trying to solve a problem don't ask who suffers from the problem, ask who profits from the problem.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 24 2017, @08:10PM
Interesting that despite both lead issues happening in heavily democratic locations, they STILL manage to blame Republicans for their problems.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 23 2017, @11:27PM (3 children)
Fresno? Nobody goes to Fresno anymore.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 24 2017, @01:06AM
The Fresno Chamber of Commerce begs to differ. Check out the calendar of events [fresnochamber.com]!
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 24 2017, @06:19AM
I picked the wrong day to quit licking lead
(Score: 2) by Taibhsear on Tuesday March 28 2017, @04:31PM
I flew into Fresno once on a trip to the sequoia forests. The lady at the counter was processing my car rental / ticket and asked what I was doing in Fresno. I said, "vacation." The look of utter disgust on her face was priceless. "IN FRESNO?..." Once I explained I was going to the forests she seemed relieved but encouraged me to get the hell out of dodge as soon as possible.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 24 2017, @12:16AM
I look forward to reading about the Governor switching the water supply to save a few pennies which brought this about. And advising family members to drink bottled water but not everyone else. Sorry, got sidetracked: LEAD LEAD LEAD. SEE EVERYONE'S BAD NOT JUST US.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 24 2017, @12:44AM (1 child)
There is nothing in the article to say how he led exposure is happening.
There are lots of things it could be, but what is the mechanism?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 24 2017, @04:05AM
The article repeatedly mentions lead paint as a factor.
(Score: 2) by shortscreen on Friday March 24 2017, @01:48AM (3 children)
Digging up the street to replace old pipes costs money. Same with bottled water. Generally, running your tap water through a filter would be a lot more cost effective, since you can get 1,000 gallons or so before you have to replace filter cartridges. I'm not sure how well these setups would handle significant lead contamination but I imagine it would be better than nothing...?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 24 2017, @04:21AM
The Brita filter is the kind of thing that someone who already has good quality water will afford/think to buy. And they have better access to bulk discounts through their collection of Costco, Amazon, etc. memberships.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 24 2017, @04:57AM (1 child)
Charcoal does nothing for lead. It really does nothing for much of anything except chlorine. For this kind of thing you'd need a rather expensive reverse osmosis setup.
(Score: 2) by shortscreen on Friday March 24 2017, @09:19AM
they aren't that expensive http://bestreviews.io/best-reverse-osmosis-systems [bestreviews.io]
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 24 2017, @07:34AM
Side effects of lead exposure include:
- Rigid, inflexible problem-solving abilities
- Delayed general intellectual abilities
- Problems controlling behavior (e.g., aggressive, impulsive)
- Poor language understanding or usage
Really only half joking. The behavioral changes throughout the nation are bizarre in their degree and rapidity of change. Aside from freak lead exposure, there are a vast array of new chemicals, compounds, and conditions we're now regularly exposed to. I don't think attributing everything entirely to psychosomatic and social conditions is necessarily logical. Would be interesting if it turns out that we're repeating leaded fuel all over again, just with a different culprit. For those unaware lead exposure has been causally linked to violence and aggression. The regulation against lead correlates not only to the sharp drop in violent crime in the USA, but worldwide - varying precisely by the times countries regulated against leaded fuels. In some countries, such as Brazil, regulations against lead were rolled out in different periods at different times and the according reduction in violence followed closely. Wiki overview [wikipedia.org]. Oh and nearly all political leaders throughout the world, including the US, grew up huffing lead as much as their mother's milk. Just lovely.
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Friday March 24 2017, @12:25PM
Of course Flint is not the only place where lead poisoning is a major problem. The reason Flint got famous is that the government knowingly made specific decisions that they knew would increase the level of lead in the drinking supply, without telling anybody, and then tried to cover up that fact.
You can find industrial sites all over the country with higher levels of lead and other toxins, and kids who've been poisoned by it. Indeed, there's substantial evidence that it's one of the major reasons why inner-city kids have a harder time than suburban kids: their homes were built before the anti-lead laws were in place, and landlords didn't bother with the expensive and time-consuming process of fixing the lead paint and plumbing.
I'm all in favor of journalism trying to investigate lead levels and publicize them. I'm also hoping against all hope that "these levels are worse than Flint" isn't taken to mean "... so those people in Flint should just shut up, it's not a big deal".
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.