SoylentNews is people
SoylentNews
Just a few months since its first motorcycle, the Redshift, became available to the US market, Alta Motors is set to roll out a new concept model. Inspired by flat track machines, the Street Tracker is conceived as a road-legal battery-powered motorcycle built around the Redshift platform.
Californian startup Alta Motors spent six years setting up a production facility, organizing a dealer network, and developing its first model from the ground up ahead of its market launch in 2016. The Redshift is a lightweight electric off-road motorcycle available in a motocross (MX) and a street-legal supermoto (SM) version.
The American company builds the motorcycle's engine, frame and battery cases in-house, as well as all the electronic gear tasked with controlling the motor's 40 hp (29.8 kW) power and 122 lb-ft (165 Nm) torque output. These are complemented by equipment outsourced from industry leading brands, like WP suspensions and Brembo brakes.
Is there a market for silent motorcycles?
(Score: 3, Informative) by Whoever on Sunday April 09 2017, @04:42AM (1 child)
Go to China and listen to the two-wheeled devices that they ride there.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Scruffy Beard 2 on Sunday April 09 2017, @04:46AM
I think I have one. The dirt/winter tires make a lot of noise though.
(Score: 1) by butthurt on Sunday April 09 2017, @05:24AM (2 children)
Does the term simply mean a racing track that isn't banked, as a photo gallery on the World Wide Web and an Urban Dictionary entry lead me to believe?
http://www.hotbikeweb.com/super-hooligan-flat-track-race [hotbikeweb.com]
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=flat-track [urbandictionary.com]
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 09 2017, @07:18AM
That's certainly the etymology, and I think it was originally opposed to racing on banked board tracks [wikipedia.org]; however, as it applies to motorcycle racing today, it indicates a specific class of racing on unbanked dirt tracks, and the bikes (with suspension and brakes) used for it; other motorcycle races, such as speedway (with no brakes and no suspension), are not called flat-track, even though they're also run on unbanked dirt tracks. (In general, flat-track is a US thing and speedway is a Europe/Australia thing, so it's maybe not as confusing as it sounds.)
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday April 09 2017, @11:06AM
I think that "flat track" refers to flat dirt tracks - no pavement. Let me check on that . . .
http://www.americanflattrack.com/news/view/ama-pro-racing-announces-2017-american-flat-track-schedule [americanflattrack.com]
Image at the top of the page suggests that I'm right, but let me dig a little further . . .
http://www.indianmotorcycle.com/en-us/flat-track-race [indianmotorcycle.com]
Scroll down the page a little for a very early flat track racing image - those crazy bastids didn't have the brakes we have today, or any other safety gear.
This is the link you want: http://www.americanflattrack.com/news/view/motogp-world-champion-valentino-rossi-hosts-american-flat-track-stars-brad-baker-and-sammy-halbert-for-a-flat-track-training-day-at-rossis-ranch [americanflattrack.com]
(Score: 2) by gringer on Sunday April 09 2017, @05:33AM (3 children)
Does anyone know how these compare with Zero's offerings:
http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/ [zeromotorcycles.com]
Ask me about Sequencing DNA in front of Linus Torvalds [youtube.com]
(Score: 2) by gringer on Sunday April 09 2017, @11:11AM (2 children)
Is there a market for silent motorcycles?
According to Zero Motorcycles, the Police find silent motorcycles to be quite useful:
This motorcycle is so quiet that we continuously sneak up on suspects while out on patrol, and we continue to receive positive feedback from the public
Ask me about Sequencing DNA in front of Linus Torvalds [youtube.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 09 2017, @04:10PM (1 child)
Silent motorcycles are extremely dangerous. I'm not one of those loud pipes save lives morons, but a more or less completely silent bike is even more likely to be unnoticed than a normal bike. Not to mention, the fact that it means that blind people and other pedestrians don't have the sound available to help judge the distance.
(Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Sunday April 09 2017, @05:48PM
There is zero evidence that is true. It doesn't make a lot of sense either. You have a driver ensconced in a sound dampened interior approaching a motorcycle. The exhaust and majority of the noise from that motorcycle is direct rearward in a direction away from the approaching vehicle. The only people the noise alerts are those behind the motorcycle or outside of cars, and it alerts them you are an asshole. I say this as a motorcycle rider.
https://motorbikewriter.com/challenging-loud-motorcycle-pipes-theory/ [motorbikewriter.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 09 2017, @06:43AM (11 children)
It is a sad fact that many motorists do not see motorcyclists (too small, evidently), even with engine noise to help make them "notice". Expect an increase in squished motorcyclists if these become popular. The noise is a safety factor.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by bradley13 on Sunday April 09 2017, @07:27AM (2 children)
So: I don't see silent as a problem. Cars are soundproof enough that you generally don't hear other vehicles anyway. The problem is a different one.
I don't ride a motorcycle, but I have commuted by bicycle quite a lot. While some motorists were a problem, even as a bicyclist I have to say that the biggest danger to bicyclists is: bicyclists doing stupid things, like squeezing between or alongside cars, where drivers have no reason to expect them.
Motorcyclists do the same things, only at higher speeds. "White lining", for example, is a stupid idea, because lane-changing cars aren't expecting it. When traffic is stopped at a traffic light, whipping around the traffic and pulling up in front of the first car: if the light turns green at the wrong moment, or "right turn on red" is legal, that can go very wrong. Just because a motorcycle (or bicycle) is narrow is no excuse not to occupy and use lanes normally.
Silent motorcycles? Yes please. Same for cars - requiring noisemakers is no different from requiring people with bells to walk in front of the first automobiles. Noise is also pollution.
Everyone is somebody else's weirdo.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday April 09 2017, @11:22AM
Well, Bradley, I used to think very much the same as you, regarding "filtering". In California and most of Europe, it is legal, and expected. As a rule, the motorcycle should keep it's speed within about 20 mph of traffic, and he is totally responsible for moving safely through traffic. It works well. I do it, to some extent, my kid grew up with the idea, and he just does it without any special consideration.
But, you're right. I've seen it go horribly wrong. I watched a bike zip right past me on my bike, he misjudged the clearance between two cars, caught his big D-ring engine protector and flipped it. He got off lightly - the girl on the back skidded down the road a ways on her face. That one happened on Sunrise Highway on Long Island, I think it was the fourth accident I attended after getting my EMT diploma. Ugly.
(Score: 2) by dry on Monday April 10 2017, @02:04AM
There's something to say about noise. When I used to ride a bicycle, I listened as much as looked for traffic. Now that I drive, I have a rural driveway on a somewhat blind corner, I always roll the window down so I can hear a car/truck coming, especially if it is speeding. It helps. Last year I had an idiot pass me on the left as I initiated a left turn (and yes I was signalling and the signal worked when I checked after finishing the turn), would have been a nasty accident with my door t-boned if I hadn't heard him.
(Score: 2) by black6host on Sunday April 09 2017, @10:18AM
Hey, they could always take a hint from the auto manufacturers and have the bike go "Vroom Vroom" through the stereo system :)
(Score: 3, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Sunday April 09 2017, @11:17AM (4 children)
The reading that I've done suggests that it is mostly psychological. A massive 18-wheeler poses a very serious threat to a motorist, so motorists almost always see them as a threat, even when they are not actually a threat. Even more for trains. Smaller cars are sometimes missed, because they are not percieved as a threat to the guy in a one-ton truck, or a big SUV. Motorcycles aren't percieved as a threat by almost anyone, so they are often "seen" - that is the eye picks them up, but the brain does not catch the non-threat.
Of course, psychology doesn't explain it all. Simple physics goes a long way toward explaining that a smaller object is less likely to be noticed than a larger object. But, psychology comes back into focus, when masses of people take immediate notice of an armed man, but they take no notice of any of the unarmed people around them.
Engine noise doesn't help the typical motorcycle rider, because most of the noise is behind him. A slow V-twin with modified exhaust often warns people ahead that it is coming. A fast bike does not project much noise out ahead, with or without a good exhaust, regardless of the engine configuration.
Go to a track one day, get a nice seat close to the track, and listen carefully. That bike coming at you seems to be floating in near silence, until he is just about beside you, then the sound explodes over you. Cars do the same, but the effect is less pronounced, probably because they have better muffler systems.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 09 2017, @04:15PM (3 children)
That depends on the motorcycle. I live a few feet from a major arterial and I can here those blasted harleys from a mile away.
As with everything, this is a matter of degrees, most bikes will be somewhat audible to the sides and in front, but as you point out, most of the noise is backwards. With some extremely loud bikes I've heard, I couldn't even place the sound because it was so loud that it was bouncing off of just about every building in the area.
That being said, the real safety risk of electric motorcycles has nothing to do with the sound, it's the relatively smooth torque curve that doesn't require shifting. It's risky enough for new riders to have a bike that's capable of doing 50 in 1st gear, a bike that could do 70 or 80 in first gear requires a lot of restraint to not go too fast. At least with shifting, you're somewhat restricted in how fast you can go without purposefully doing it.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday April 09 2017, @04:24PM (2 children)
Good point - I hadn't thought about that. There are many videos on Youtube where some young dummy climbs on a crotch rocket, and rolls that throttle wide open. He has no idea what to expect, and he launches himself through a brick wall or something. Electric bikes will be prone to that very same thing. Experienced riders may well screw it up the first couple times. There is a world of difference between internal combustion and electric.
(Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Sunday April 09 2017, @05:54PM (1 child)
My very first motorcycle was a used and beat up 78 Honda 100cc -- single cylinder. I doubt the top speed on that was much more than 50 and it took a long time and a downhill slope to get there. It seems to me that having a horsepower limit for new riders would be a really good idea -- maybe not as anemic as my first bike was, but something reasonable. 100+ HP for a new rider is just crazy.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Monday April 10 2017, @01:35AM
That is a law, some places in Europe. I'm not European, so I'm repeating hearsay, but the kid gets a bike at age whatever, and he's licensed for it, based on horsepower. After so many month or years, he can go down and get relicensed. With his new license, he can go to a shop, and have his bike turned up.
Sorry, it appears this guy's first language isn't English, but he attempts to explain the scheme from days gone by, and compare it to today's scheme. The cutoff is 125 cc and/or about 15 hp. https://www.autoevolution.com/news/motorcycle-licensing-in-europe-explained-90006.html [autoevolution.com] A2 license goes up to 46.9 horsepower, and for anything more powerful, you need to return and get an A license.
Note that there are age restrictions, as well as experience restrictions. It all makes sense, if you read around the strange grammar.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 09 2017, @03:39PM (1 child)
Completely false. Sound makes absolutely no difference to motorcycle safety. It hasn't mattered since car windows and high wattage stereos were invented.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday April 09 2017, @04:39PM
I scoff at the "loud pipes save lives" crowd myself. But, I'm not entirely sure that sound "makes absolutely no difference". We talked in another post about silent electric cars, and the hazards they will pose. A reasonable motorcycle is hardly any louder than a car - and cars aren't silent. I can hear them most of the time when I am outside of the car. School kids can usually hear a car, pedestrians of all ages can usually hear a car approaching. The streets will be less safe with electric cars and motorcycles, unless they are required to make an audible hum or something. Gotta have some noise, even if it's just the knobby tires slapping the pavement - except, knobbies are usually illegal on the highway.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday April 09 2017, @10:33AM (5 children)
Sorry not sorry, if it doesn't sound like your grandma after Thanksgiving dinner, it's not a motorcycle; it's just a toy. Real motorcycles require the noise just as much as they require the black and the chrome and the lack of a windshield.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday April 09 2017, @01:49PM (4 children)
Sorry, Buzzard, but I'm not the same kind of bike man that you are. I really LIKE my in-line 4 cylinder engines that will run in excess of 150 mph. They are so quiet at idle, you can think they have stalled. They're so quiet under easy acceleration, all you hear is a kind of deep-throated hum. Crank that throttle though, and the thunder roars across the neighborhood. And, yes, I like my windshield. That famous image titled "Stormrider"? That's been me, many times. https://www.customautotrim.com/img/windowsgraphics/rwg2018.jpg [customautotrim.com] You KNOW how much it hurts to be pelted with big fat rain drops, and even sleet or hail. Bugs can be just as bad - ride across the Sabine River when the buffalo gnats are in season.
I'm with you on the black though. Most other color schemes are either gay or sissy. Chrome? A little chrome goes a long way. Gold or black anodizing looks better, IMO.
Finally, though, V-twins are notorious for rattling themselves apart. I know, everyone says they aren't like that anymore. People claim that the Harley Wannabe imports don't shake, rattle, and roll. Whatever people say, I've seen plenty of Harleys on the side of the road, with the rider wrenching stuff back on.
I expect to ride 8,000 to 12,000 miles between tire changes, and to NOT do any work on my bike until I'm ready for a new tire. I really and truly expect that. It's how I've ridden since my first Kawasaki.
Long story short - if you can hear my motorcycle, I'm almost certainly breaking the law. ;^) Further, if the cops are after me, I can give them the slip, get out of sight, then ride QUIETLY out of the neighborhood. Good luck with stealth mode on a V-twin!!
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday April 09 2017, @07:05PM (3 children)
Man, I've been hit in the chest by birds and I'm still not having a sissyfied piece of plastic on anything I ride. Bikes aren't about getting from one place to another and they're not about comfort, they're about the power, the freedom, and the experience.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @01:06AM (2 children)
> ... they're about the power, the freedom, and the experience.
Look, I liked "Easy Rider" too, but that was a movie, not reality.
I've been riding since I built a mini-bike from steel tubing at age 12. For me it is about minimalism (no need to lug around a car for one person), economy (great mileage on small and mid-sized motorcycles), and reducing trip time (getting around traffic, park close to destination).
I hope your world has room for utilitarian motorcyclists too (??)
(Score: 3, Funny) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday April 10 2017, @01:21AM (1 child)
Room? Sure. Respect? Nope.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 10 2017, @03:22AM
Ah, so your current sig explains your position perfectly, thanks.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 09 2017, @12:23PM
In 1974 Charles MacArthur rode a Corbin electric motorcycle up Mount Washington:
http://insideevs.com/corbin-xlp-1-sn-001-comes-home/ [insideevs.com]
(Score: 1) by Jtmach on Sunday April 09 2017, @01:32PM (1 child)
They need to up the range and get the price down. If they could get a 200 mile highway range in a bike around 10k I'd probably buy one.
On a sport bike I'm not riding cross country, I just like to go out for an afternoon and get away from the city.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday April 09 2017, @04:31PM
Hmmmm. I've often said that a 200 mile range would be enough to entice me to look at an electric car. I'm not so sure about a bike though. Using the bike as a commuter, 200 miles would be fine. But, when I decide to cut out on a weekend, 200 miles isn't nearly enough. I've often run my tank dry 3 or 4 times in a day. My cruiser is a 1982 Honda Silverwing, 5.1 gallon tank and 53 mpg, giving me a range right at 200 miles. Hit a gas station, and keep on rolling.
If I could convince myself that I need two bikes, then that 200 mile electric would be my commuter, and the Silverwing would be my open road ride.