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Milo Yiannopoulos brings us this disturbing tidbit:
A gay man from Chechnya, Russia has spoken out, providing some troubling details related to the the majority-Muslim province's effort to eliminate the LGBTQ community entirely.
According to Metro.co.uk's Charles White, many gay men living in Chechnya fear the government will "eliminate" them by the Muslim holy month of Ramadan.
The government is reportedly hoarding[sic] the gay men into "concentration camps" where some may have been killed.
According to Breitbart, the Agence France-Presse (AFP) spoke with several gay victims of oppression who have managed to escape Chechnya. What they've revealed is that not only are gay men in the region afraid of persecution from authority.
They're also scared of "honor killings" by family members looking to punish them for shaming their family name. This fear follows the individuals even after they've left Chechnya, where the bulk of the atrocities appears to be occurring.
"If any of my relatives realize I'm gay, they won't hesitate a minute before killing me," said one 28-year-old victim according to the outlet. "And if they don't do it, they will get killed themselves for failing to uphold the family honor."
[Ed. note: See also this fascinating background article on the apparent cause of this recent pogrom in Chechnya. Hat tip to n1 for providing this link.]
I know it's not our usual fare but some things just need brought out in the open; see what Iran is up to.
(Score: 4, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 26 2017, @10:53AM (28 children)
Its sad how the only time conservatives give a shit about gay rights is when they can uses them as a club to bash muslims.
Meanwhile, in america support for marriage equality is higher among muslims than it is among evangelicals. [reason.com]
And of course, utter silence about american evangelicals spending millions of tax-free dollars to promote the "kill the gays" law in Uganda. [latimes.com]
(Score: -1, Troll) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday April 26 2017, @10:57AM (17 children)
Your blatant politicizing of the deaths of those you purport extremely loudly to care about is also noted.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 26 2017, @11:09AM (13 children)
> Your blatant politicizing of the deaths of those you purport extremely loudly to care about is also noted.
Is that some kind of "I know you are but what am I" defense?
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday April 26 2017, @11:14AM (11 children)
Sweety, there is nothing even approaching conservative about me. It just looks that way to you because you're blinded by your side's insistence on a two party narrative.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 26 2017, @11:21AM (9 children)
What does a semantic argument about the definition of "conservative" have to do with the fact that you and your fellow travelers DGAF about gay rights?
Absolutely Nothing.
Why is that your response to an accusation of politicizing people's deaths for your own political goals?
Deflection.
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday April 26 2017, @11:33AM (8 children)
I didn't politicize this. You did. I just shared a story on a terrible thing that was happening.
And you don't have a clue what you're talking about when you say I don't give a fuck about gay rights. Gays are human and I'm a strong proponent of human rights. You misunderstand this because you think Protected Classes should have special rights above and beyond mine and I do not.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 4, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 26 2017, @11:55AM (6 children)
> I didn't politicize this. You did. I just shared a story on a terrible thing that was happening.
Your mendacity isn't fooling anyone.
>And you don't have a clue what you're talking about when you say I don't give a fuck about gay rights.
Yet you never mention gay rights in any context other than muslims.
No stories from you about Jamaica's horrendous treatment of gays. Where one of the two dominant political party's official theme song was a catchy-as-hell song about burning gay men alive. [splcenter.org] Where gay people are regularly murdered without investigation. [antillean.org]
No stories from you about Russia's anti-gay laws or the recent trend of declaring russian cities "gay-free" [lgbtqnation.com] and then forbidding the entry of gay people.
No stories from you about the aforementioned american promoted hate-mongering laws in Uganda.
Your silence speaks louder than your words.
But you did see fit to insert an unrelated story about iran into this one about chechnya.
What do these two countries have in common?
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday April 26 2017, @12:21PM (5 children)
Yes, in fact I do. I just don't cheerlead for them because I, unlike you, treat them as equal to anyone else; i.e. I don't give two shits about them unless there's something noteworthy going on.
I don't go looking for injustice around the world, so I hadn't heard of any of these stories. I'm absolutely sure it's out there but dealing with the stuff on my doorstep is generally sufficient for the day. See above about not being a cheerleader.
One of your Protected Classes attempting genocide on another and your entire movement saying fuck-all about it. It deserved covered and you couldn't get past the cognitive dissonance that Muslims killing Gays was causing you long enough to publish a story about an atrocity.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 26 2017, @12:29PM (3 children)
Yes, in fact I do.
Sure you do...
We've all seen you do it!
Right?
Right...?
Protected Classes
JFC would you quit with the whinging already?
All you are doing is proving that it really is all about politics for you.
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday April 26 2017, @12:46PM (1 child)
You just said that attached to a story I submitted about their right to life. How stupid can you possibly be?
Again, you are the one who politicized this. To me it was nothing but a story about something atrocious that should not be happening.
You've lost this argument. Time to Move On.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 26 2017, @01:03PM
You just said that attached to a story I submitted about their right to life. How stupid can you possibly be?
Not stupid enough to think that example of you using gay rights muslim bash as proof that you care about gay rights in any other context.
In fact, I am confident that you have literally never submitted a story about human rights of any kind that wasn't actually a twisted defense of bashing minorities.
To me it was nothing but a story about something atrocious that should not be happening.
Just because you keep denying the obvious doesn't make it any less obvious.
We aren't that stupid either.
You've lost this argument. Time to Move On.
You lost the argument the minute you submitted the story.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 26 2017, @03:42PM
JFC would you quit with the whinging already?
Can you feel my cock sliding into your rancidhole?
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 26 2017, @02:14PM
Yes, in fact I do. I just don't cheerlead for them because I, unlike you, treat them as equal to anyone else; i.e. I don't give two shits about them unless there's something noteworthy going on.
Which is why you staunchly condemn yapopolis's harassment of a trans student in front of a riled-up crowd - naming her while displaying a picture and accusing her of 'forcing his way into women's locker rooms' [teenvogue.com] - the standard trope for inciting violence against trans people.
Oh, you don't condemn that?
Yeah, you really care about the rights of LGBTQ people.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 26 2017, @03:28PM
I didn't politicize this.
Yeah, that "religion-of-piece dept" in the original submission was not at all a political statement.
You aren't half as clever of a liar as you think you are.
(Score: 2) by ikanreed on Wednesday April 26 2017, @06:25PM
Yes there is. You're one of those very xenophobic, vaguely racist people who identify as "libertarian", as if you don't pick up all the worst elements(except the strictly theological ones) of conservative ideology and rub them all over your body, moaning in ecstacy as you imagine yourself as some kind of third-way rebel who doesn't fall in line every single goddamn election cycle.
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Thursday April 27 2017, @02:46AM
Is that some kind of "I know you are but what am I" defense?
Why, yes, I believe it is! Not a very good one, though.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 26 2017, @01:12PM (2 children)
Your blatant politicizing of the deaths of those you purport extremely loudly to care about is also noted.
So, to be clear, you weren't trying to make a point about islam?
That the AC is guilty of projecting that narrative on the story because of his (or her) own liberal delusions?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 26 2017, @03:04PM
That's what happens when you let yourself get trolled by somebody like TMB who's an expert at "trapping hands."
(Score: 1) by butthurt on Thursday April 27 2017, @07:08AM
In case that wasn't a rhetorical question, check the last paragraph of the original submission.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 26 2017, @11:34AM
Its OK for Chechnya to round up gays though, because American muslims support gay marriage.
(Score: 2, Touché) by EvilSS on Wednesday April 26 2017, @02:06PM (4 children)
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 26 2017, @03:08PM (3 children)
Can't it be both things at once?
I'm glad that, in this moment, more people are becoming sympathetic to the plight of homosexuals in less civilized parts of the world.
But like I said in a longwinded way in a longer comment below, it's not something that should engender trust. They absolutely are not sincere with the concern they're showing.
But we can join them, in this moment, while circumstances are such, and denounce people who, for whatever reason, blatantly disregard human rights.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by EvilSS on Wednesday April 26 2017, @04:46PM
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 26 2017, @05:48PM (1 child)
But we can join them, in this moment, while circumstances are such, and denounce people who, for whatever reason, blatantly disregard human rights.
Ironically that is exactly what happened in the Iranian revolution.
The students made common cause with the zealots, they figured they both wanted the Shaw out so they joined them in the moment.
And once the Shaw was out, the zealots quickly turned on the students and crushed them.
And now Iran is much worse off than it was under the Shaw who was a pretty shitty guy himself.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 27 2017, @05:37AM
both wanted the Shaw out
Would that have been "George Bernard Shaw"? Or did you mean the "Shah" of Iran, a CIA puppet? My God, can no one on this cite spell anymore? It's almost like SN has been taken over by alt-right dangerous faggot Bannons and Brietbarfs who do not have enough education, have only heard things and try to spell them Phonecionly, like the Phonecians did.
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by khallow on Wednesday April 26 2017, @02:06PM (1 child)
Its sad how the only time conservatives give a shit about gay rights is when they can uses them as a club to bash muslims.
Smart people would call this "common ground". For example, this story illustrates why basic rights for everyone are important. Yet instead you're whining. Learn to strategize and communicate.
And of course, utter silence about american evangelicals spending millions of tax-free dollars to promote the "kill the gays" law in Uganda.
Maybe we could point out the similarities between Chechnya and Uganda as a way to undermine support for those Ugandan laws? Hmmmmm?
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 26 2017, @03:03PM
Smart people would call this "common ground".
No, smart people call this "being a useful idiot."
When you allow the justness of your cause to give legitimacy to an unjust cause you become complicit in that injustice.
Aren't you one of those people who thinks Clinton was corrupt because her foundation took money from saudis?
It didn't matter that the foundation spent the money to do significant amounts of good.
That good was diminished by the white-washing the foundation's reputation gave to those despots in return for their dirty money.
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 26 2017, @02:25PM
Muslims, Christians, and Jews all follow broken combination religions and political systems that worship a cruel war god as the head of state. One of the laws of that religion is that homosexuals and crossdressers must absolutely be put to death, no exceptions. Fortunately, they all hate each other since at the core of those religions is the idea that any change in the religion is perversion to be met with violence and death.
(Though I paint with a wide brush. There are some followers of Jesus, who may have been a buddha, on this site, so sorry the terminology is confusing. I'd rather not get caught up in trying to find a true Scotsman. The vast majority of Christians do not follow Jesus but the war god Yahweh who some call Allah. They've got one thing right: you can't serve two masters. In fact, in the brand of Christian Identity [wikipedia.org] I've had personal experience with, Jesus is a warlord not unlike Mohammed who will slaughter the infidels and make the seas run red, just as soon as he gets around to returning to lead the army of the apocalypse in glorious jihad. The buddha theory seems to fit the facts better than the warlord theory, but hey.)
I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for Chick-Fil-A to have a change of heart soon. So while it would seem to behoove one to go easy on Christians for a while if they're going to pretend they're better than Muslims by suddenly putting on airs of homosexual acceptance, never forget that they know nothing but treachery in the depths of their souls.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 26 2017, @05:16PM
The democrats have noticed that Muslims make more Muslims, unlike gays, and can be imported in huge numbers. This is now their strategy. Of course they won't openly speak of abandoning gays; the hope is that gays are not smart enough to notice that democrats are welcoming people who kill gays.
The republicans have long opposed Muslims and have long opposed having Americans killed, gay or not. (not into special group rights) Those in the party who oppose everything gay are being told to sit down and shut up. Most of them, Mormons excepted, hate the Muslims too and thus won't be switching over to the democrats.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 26 2017, @11:30AM (2 children)
I like how it is claimed that there are no gays in Chechnya, these men were merely suspected, so it doesn't count.
"How can you eliminate something that doesn't even exist?" 10/10 logic, can't argue with that.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 26 2017, @01:27PM
Another detail is that the authorities claiming that "there are no gays in Chechnya" is a plain admission that they killed them. If they had kicked them out, we would know about it (we are talking around 10% of the population here), and there really are no other options.
(Score: 3, Informative) by DannyB on Wednesday April 26 2017, @02:45PM
Also: there are no gays in Iran [dailymail.co.uk], according to Holocaust denier, supporter of terrorism and Iranian President, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
What doesn't kill me makes me weaker for next time.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 26 2017, @11:34AM (1 child)
Meanwhile in the Middle-East (Syria, Yemen, Iraq, ...), people are bombed to death in scores and no mention of that because it is not "disturbing".
And when a few gay men are stopped from harming society (from that society's point of view), it is "disturbing"?
The government is reportedly hoarding[sic] the gay men into "concentration camps" where some may have been killed.
And it is perfectly fine to put an entire nation in concentration camps in Palestine? NO, it is not OK. Fuck your double standards. The Criminal Zionist Khazar Jews are behind these "disturbing" manufactured, promoted "news". Send them all to hell. Shifting focus somewhere else, to something insignificant so you wouldn't notice you are being pushed into another World War of their making.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 26 2017, @11:58AM
The Criminal Zionist Khazar Jews are behind these "disturbing" manufactured, promoted "news". Send them all to hell. Shifting focus somewhere else, to something insignificant so you wouldn't notice you are being pushed into another World War of their making.
Two wrongs don't make a right.
You aren't helping.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 26 2017, @11:46AM
Easy solution: Don't be gay.
(Score: 1) by justinb_76 on Wednesday April 26 2017, @11:54AM (2 children)
(Score: 1, Offtopic) by Dunbal on Wednesday April 26 2017, @12:59PM (1 child)
Wikipedia does not have an article with this exact name
I can make relevant wiki links [wikipedia.org] too.
(Score: 2) by butthurt on Wednesday April 26 2017, @01:22PM
Try it without the trailing slash, like this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_penalty_for_homosexuality [wikipedia.org]
(Score: 5, Insightful) by c0lo on Wednesday April 26 2017, @12:04PM (15 children)
A link to milo yiannopoulos's web site really brings credibility to the story, right? Right?
You may have the right to the freedom of speech, but I also have a right not to listen to it if you use your speech to peddle bullshit.
There, I said it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 26 2017, @12:15PM (12 children)
As he's said before, [soylentnews.org] he doesn't give a damn about the quality of discussion, he just wants to make noise. He's an insecure pissant who is all about the attention but can't back up his beliefs with anything more complex than "I'm smart and yer dumb."
I love watching people dismiss a message simply because they can't stand agreeing with the messenger.
(Score: 0, Troll) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday April 26 2017, @12:51PM (11 children)
What can I say, I'm a complex guy. I can both care about what's happening halfway around the world and want to see shitbirds like you say the messenger is more important than the message.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 26 2017, @01:05PM (10 children)
> What can I say, I'm a complex guy.
You can say anything.
But if you said were a socially retarded narcissist, at least that would be true.
(Score: 2) by Spamalope on Wednesday April 26 2017, @01:32PM (9 children)
And yet all you've added to the conversation is substance-less invective. You even seem to be trying for High Ground with your Ad Hominem despite bravely posting as AC.
Gunning for a participation trophy?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 26 2017, @01:39PM (8 children)
By his own admission he submits articles to generate noise, not signal.
And when he succeeds you hold everyone but him responsible?
Sounds like sociopath apologia to me.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday April 26 2017, @02:10PM (7 children)
By his own admission he submits articles to generate discussion, not agreement.
FTFY. I don't think you get the point of SN.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 26 2017, @02:16PM
What part of "I love watching people dismiss a message" do you consider to be discussion?
I don't think you get the point of words.
(Score: 2) by pe1rxq on Wednesday April 26 2017, @03:27PM (4 children)
Is the point of SN to give one troll a podium against the rest of the world? If so this article is a great success.
(Score: 1) by charon on Wednesday April 26 2017, @05:32PM (3 children)
I'm no fan of Milo Yiannopoulos either, but you know the old saw about broken clocks. Unfortunately everyone has gotten hung up on his name and has said almost nothing about the story. I assumed y'all might be big enough to evaluate the content independently of its author. You know, like you do with AC posts.
Also, no one has a podium here. We post what the community finds interesting and submits to us. The only requirement is the 10 seconds it takes to paste a link into the submit field.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 26 2017, @06:31PM (2 children)
We post what the community finds interesting and submits to us.
Clearly that's not true. Else you would have published the other mighty buttrumpet story that's been sitting in the queue for a few days.
That story is even worse than this one, basically straight-up lying that a professor said students could protest trump in lieu of a final when the truth is that prof said the class could do a class project in lieu of a final and the students decided the class project would be a protest.
At least this story is factual, partial facts, cherry-picked to promote a self-serving agenda, but at least the headline-level facts are true.
But you can still do better. His use of the "religion-of-piece dept" and the arbitrary inclusion of iranian repression not to mention the abject quality of the sources indicated the submission was not made in good faith. Don't let guys like that play you for their own entertainment.
(Score: 1) by charon on Wednesday April 26 2017, @07:00PM (1 child)
Fair point, we don't post everything that is submitted. Stuff like the flamebait sub you mentioned sits around in the queue because no editor wants to post it; eventually it gets deleted.
In the case of this particular story, I would probably have passed on it too, if not for the other link provided by n1 which gives more information and nuance. Again, no one is discussing the story, only the source.
(Score: 2) by pe1rxq on Wednesday April 26 2017, @10:03PM
The story is a pile of crap.
The sources are websites that are well known to post incredible amounts of crap.
The submitter has a track record of posting crap on SN. (And appearantly we are suppposed to be ok with that because he manages to pull some working code out of his ass every once in a while)
So you have a huge pile of shit and you think that N1 sticking a little umbrella in it is going to result in a nice discussion about the story??????????
If you don't like the discussion you should not have posted this kind of obvious flamebait.
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Thursday April 27 2017, @02:23AM
By his own admission he submits articles to generate discussion, not agreement.
FTFY. I don't think you get the point of SN.
Ha! Haha! Hahahahaahahaaa!! khallow! You made an actual joke! I knew you could get better!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 26 2017, @03:45PM (1 child)
Alright, then don't listen and just fuck off. I want to hear what he has to say.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 27 2017, @05:40AM
I want to hear what he has to say.
No, you really don't. It's fake news, you know. Word to the wise. Wink, wink, nod, nod, say no more!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 26 2017, @12:57PM (6 children)
the majority-Muslim province's effort to eliminate the LGBTQ community entirely.
That's just peace-loving muslims showing the tolerance they are famous for.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 26 2017, @01:27PM (5 children)
The problem is that they're mad at US Republicans. Yerp. Once we get rid of those, only then will people on the opposite side of the world stop murdering and oppressing others. That's why us liberals love Muslims.
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 26 2017, @03:32PM (4 children)
Having been personally harmed by Christian violence and child abuse, it took me a while to see that Muslims were no better.
I would encourage liberals to realize that, assuming they're simply not partisans, Muslims are using the same source material as Christians, so every reason one might have for hating Christians applies equally to Muslims. If one was personally harmed by Christians as I was, consider that Muslims are equally at fault because they follow the exact (the EXACT!) same religio-political system Christians do from the exact same books and scrolls. The only disagreement between Christians and Muslims seems to be what time of day is best for praying and certain items of fashion and clothing.
When one sees a woman wearing a hijab at the supermarket, one should have the same reaction one has to a Christian bumper sticker in traffic. She is not a victim of anything. She willingly put on that hijab. She willingly insisted on mutilating her daughter's genitals, even to the point of traveling half way around the world to get it done! If you grant her citizenship, she'll join her Christian sisters side-by-side voting in Sharia law. If you're a liberated woman, she, both the Muslim woman in a hijab and the Christian woman driving an SUV with an anti-choice bumper sticker, very much want to control your body. Neither of them is being coerced. That is so important to understand. They want to enact violence against you and violently impose upon your very body, and they choose this from their own free will!
Neither Muslims nor Christians are deluded. They know exactly what they're doing, and they're dangerous. All of them.
(Score: 2) by dyingtolive on Wednesday April 26 2017, @05:26PM
Seems reasonable to me. Religion is terrifyingly harmful with few, if any, positives.
Don't blame me, I voted for moose wang!
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 26 2017, @05:54PM (2 children)
> She willingly insisted on mutilating her daughter's genitals, even to the point of traveling half way around the world to get it done!
Fuck you and your bullshit. FGM is not a religious practice. Its cultural and it applies across all religions in the same geography - primarily central africa.
There are 300+ million muslims in india and pakistan who don't practice FGM and ~250 million muslims in Indonesia who don't either.
Meanwhile Eritrea has almost 90% FGM. It's a Christian country. Ethiopia has 75% FGM. It's a Christian country.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 26 2017, @07:04PM (1 child)
Well, that's true. I'm sorry I conflated those things. Male genital mutilation is a something that Christianity, Islam, and Judaism all demand. Female genital mutilation seems to be peculiar to different cultures, but as you've illustrated, none of those religions have any compunction against it, all coming from the same book of laws that prescribes the same political system.
Like all forms of child abuse, the abused becomes the abuser. With male genital mutilation, we see the abused father demand that his son be likewise abused. The gender is easily swapped. With female genital mutilation, we see the abused mother demand that her daughter be likewise abused.
Genital mutilation is interesting if I may detach my emotions about the topic and attempt to be academic. It's a way of marking members of the tribe. Why not a tattoo or a brand or something less deleterious? I believe there are two reasons, the obvious first being that the deprivation of sexual pleasure seems to result in an inclination towards violence.
The other thing is that unlike a tattoo or brand, it's something that's no so easily faked by an outsider. Somebody would have to be literally (yes, literally) mentally ill to willingly mutilate their own sexual organs (and criminally depraved in my view to do it to an infant). Individuals who practice those three religions, separate as they pretend to be, demonstrate that they are fundamentally insane by permitting, in the case of female genital mutilation, and demanding, in the case of male genital mutilation, these practices.
Granted, there are people who say they are members of those religions who do not practice such horrific things. I question why they should even bother counting themselves among people who are under orders from their god to murder gays, mutilate or permit the mutilation of genitals, kill infidels, and, among other things, avoid bacon. If one has no intention of killing gays, mutilating male genitals, and allowing people who practice FGM to continue to abuse infants (and if one likes bacon), then why should one identify as a Christian, Muslim, or Jew?
Personally, I think Jesus was an influential person who had some very good things to say. I do not need to call myself a Christian or Muslim to recognize that there is something of value to be found what's related of his philosophy in the Gospel. I also think that Jesus would look very dimly on killing anybody or mutilating anybody's genitals for any reason at all.
(Also note, we must not confuse infant genital mutilation for other practices such as genital mutilation as a right of passage especially into manhood. It's still cruel, but at least they have the unimaginable option of, say, running away. [And then what? Dying alone? Hence the cruelty.])
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 26 2017, @07:07PM
Female genital mutilation seems to be peculiar to different cultures, but as you've illustrated, none of those religions have any compunction against it, all coming from the same book of laws that prescribes the same political system.
This came out completely jumbled. Guess I need to make better use of the preview button. You illustrated that FGM is independent of religion and that religious people may opt out of MGM, nothing more.
(Score: 2, Touché) by cloud.pt on Wednesday April 26 2017, @01:36PM (1 child)
As soon as the Russians stop being useful to the trumpists, Breitbart just makes a sharp turn to the left.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 26 2017, @02:29PM
What part of this do you think is of the left?
Cechnya is Putin's go-to for inciting unthinking nationalism and support for authoritarianism.
In fact, his ascendancy to the throne in 1999 was cemented by an actual false-flag attack he orchestrated and blamed on Chechens. [the-american-interest.com]
As for LGBTQ rights? The alt-reich loves them some gays, but only when they are a foil to attack the "rapists, murders and thugs" that we all known muslims to be.
Its not just the trump branch of the alt-reich either, its consistent all across europe.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/lesterfeder/frances-nationalist-party-is-winning-gay-support [buzzfeed.com]
https://www.buzzfeed.com/lesterfeder/geert-wilders-the-netherlands [buzzfeed.com]
(Score: 5, Insightful) by letssee on Wednesday April 26 2017, @01:50PM (3 children)
While the prosecution of gays in Chechnya (and probably Iran) is certainly a real problem. Citing Breitbart and Milo Yiannopoulos as sources makes me not want to read the story or discuss the conclusions.
Breitbart is so full of 'newspeak' and plain old lies that I (as a non-american) can't understand *anybody* reads that site and believes *anything* that's on there.
I
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 26 2017, @02:59PM (2 children)
Tmb is their special leader, he is the Tump of soylentnews. I checked Slashdot the other day, I'm close to migrating back there as the ads are becoming less annoying than the libertarian trolls around here.
I don't think they realize or care that their crappy trolling is ruining the site, they just want a soapbox for their crap. No discussion of value, just foils for them to spew garbage at. It is like voat.co, I went there hoping for a return to old style reddit and the sheer amount of alt-right garbage and hate made me quickly never go there again. Slashdot may be a corporate sellout that doesn't run the more political stories, but I'm not finding much value fighting trolls on here.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 26 2017, @03:24PM (1 child)
I don't think they realize or care that their crappy trolling is ruining the site,
I think that's their goal.
They aren't able to build anything, only tear things down.
So they gleeful encourage as much noise as they can to drown out the signal. They prefer to keep people arguing about the same old shit over and over again because that prevents the discussion from making any progress. They pretend to be for freedom of speech, but only so much as its enables a sort of heckler's veto of crap-posting. All ideas are of equal merit because there is no truth, only narratives.
Tmb's attack on the original moderation system under the guise of "preventing unfair downmods" was part of that. Since then moderation has become mostly ineffective. Pithy but ultimately vapid, or even outright delusional, zingers get modded up way more frequently than thoughtful analysis. People with long histories of threadcrapping like ethanal-fueld never take a karmic hit and lose that +1 bonus, despite the FAQ saying otherwise. And meta-moderation is never going to get implemented because if shitty moderators were to be held responsible for their choices that would reduce the noise.
The site is exactly how those dullards want it, and we are just snowflakes for expecting any sort of baseline community values.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday April 26 2017, @06:22PM
That's fine, this blade gets dull if it isn't regularly used. I'll always be around to kick him and his fellow travelers up and down the aisle, and now that it seems to have hit critical mass and the rest of the site is knocking him too, things may actually improve a bit :)
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Gaaark on Wednesday April 26 2017, @04:29PM (8 children)
I can't wait until the worlds' adult population pulls up their big boy pants and realizes that people are people.
If you're gay, WTF can you do about it? Nothing!
It's been said that "homosexuality is a choice".
WTF?!?!
Did i, as a teenager, look at guys and girls and say "Yeah, guys are gorgeous and girls are gorgeous..... meh, i'll go straight... I'm going for girls".
No.
I looked at guys and looked at girls and went "Man! Girls ARE GORGEOUS!"
We need to all grow up and be mature and realize that people are different.
And we need to stop with all these religions that say "believe what i believe or i will kill you".
Religion strikes again.
Shit.
Grow up people.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 26 2017, @06:23PM (6 children)
Religion strikes again.
Did you know that homosexuality literally did not exist until about 130 years ago?
This isn't some denialism, I mean the word simply did not exist.
Although coined by a pro-gay rights campaigner, it didn't see significant usage until adopted by a (european) psychologist intent on pathologizing a wide range of sexual behaviors. [wikipedia.org]
No edition of the bible even contained the word until 1946.
The mere popularization of a single umbrella word to describe a multi-dimensional set of behaviors has shaped the modern conception of sexuality.
And certainly some of those behaviors were scorned by a variety of religious subgroups before the word was ever spoken, the outright hate of all things gay was not in the original texts of any of the abrahamic religions. Gayness was barely even mentioned. For every 500+ biblical and koranic verses about "love your neighbors" and "its god's job to judge, not yours" there is one verse that mentioned a aspect of homosexuality.
For example Leviticus 20:13 "If a man lies with a man as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination" doesn't cover blow-jobs, or hand-jobs and doesn't cover anything lesbian. In fact, the original text doesn't even say "abomination" [religiondispatches.org] the word is toevah which is more like a religious ritual that is forbidden, its the same word use to describe idolatry, witchcraft and child sacrifice.
The point is, gay-hate has been exaggerated and reinserted into modern religious doctrine. Its more a reflection of the people interpreting the scriptures than it is of the scriptures themselves.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Wednesday April 26 2017, @07:04PM (2 children)
"The point is, gay-hate has been exaggerated and reinserted into modern religious doctrine. Its more a reflection of the people interpreting the scriptures than it is of the scriptures themselves. "
But this is not quite correct. It can't have been exaggerated if it wasn't there, and it wasn't there, the concept of 'gay' or 'homosexual' as an orientation simply did not exist when these books were written. There was no concept of a gay man (as opposed to a straight man) to be condemned. The ancients certainly knew of homosexual *acts* (and wrote about them on several occasions, often in condemnation but also at some times and places positively) but they didn't have that crucial concept of homosexuality as an identity or an orientation at all.
What you see with modern religious gay hate is deeply rooted in the concept of shared identity which forms the root of most religions in practice. The moment the notion came to be held that there are actually two different types of men, rather than simply two different types of acts which men might (or might not) choose to engage in, it also became necessary at a sort of gut level for those religious groups to pick one or the other. For some unfathomable reason most of them chose hetero, which immediately results in homo becoming 'the other' - the definitional opposition to the in-group. Looking for scriptures with which to condemn them could only have come after that.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 26 2017, @07:50PM (1 child)
> it also became necessary at a sort of gut level for those religious groups to pick one or the other.
Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 27 2017, @07:07AM
AC you sound sarcastic but Ank's nailed it. The key part:
>> The moment the notion came to be held that there are actually two different types of men, rather than simply two different types of acts which men might (or might not) choose to engage in
The moment there is a "we-are" and a "they-are", the larger group will cohere and use its larger mass to gain power. It's just the way that social group animals work, and humans are included. It's absolutely a "gut level" thing.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 26 2017, @07:18PM (2 children)
I tire so much of etymological lawyers and apologists. You're not going to change anybody's mind, and on top of that, why would The Message of all translations screw this up? Why would the NIV also screw it up? Is there anybody whose translated this in a way that's more accurate?
KJV first:
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
NIV:
If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
MSG:
If a man has sex with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is abhorrent. They must be put to death; they are responsible for their own deaths.
Also The Voice just for shits and giggles because I love the screenplay format, though I've no idea about its veracity. Scene 20, which is a smashing scene with some lovely acting, in which Moses discovers a vital clue, in which there aren't any ancaps, although I think you can hear a violently imposed -oolp!
The Eternal One spoke to Moses.
Eternal One: ...If a man has sexual relations with another man, they have participated in a detestable act. Both men are to be put to death, for their blood is on them.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 26 2017, @07:47PM (1 child)
You're not going to change anybody's mind, and on top of that, why would The Message of all translations screw this up? Why would the NIV also screw it up?
I assume you are referring to the "kill them both" part?
A little more context is necessary.
The list of things leviticus says to kill you for is pretty long.
Like half the verses in chapter 20:
Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death.
And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death
And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they
A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death
We stopped killing people for all of those things, they aren't even illegal.
The only reason people get amped up about teh gays is because they want to be amped up about teh gays.
The bible doesn't cause them to do it, the bible is just a handy excuse. They'd find another excuse if this one wasn't available.
For example, the nazis weren't big on scripture but they still singled out thousands of gays for the camps. They were the ones who came up with the pink triangles. [wikipedia.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 27 2017, @07:46AM
> Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.
To a culture that believes curses inflict real harm, this is the equivalent of "if you kill your parents or destroy their spiritual beings, die" - matches US law
> If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death.
Cuckolding that results in offspring was, culturally, the same as murdering one of the married mate's, since that pregnancy cycle wasn't available (and in a world of many miscarriages and frequent childbirth deaths to mother and child, and low infant survival rates, this made sense. Again, murder can be a death penalty in the US right now.
> And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death
Sex with one's mother is in the gravest crimes category for most cultures. Incest gets imprisonment in the US.
> And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they
Close enough to mother taboos.
> A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death
Don't even get me started.
> We stopped killing people for all of those things, they aren't even illegal.
Not factually correct, if by 'we' you mean 'people of the USA'
(Score: 2) by tfried on Thursday April 27 2017, @08:24AM
Did i, as a teenager, look at guys and girls and say "Yeah, guys are gorgeous and girls are gorgeous..... meh, i'll go straight... I'm going for girls".
No.
Very good point. But do note that there there is bound to be some unknown quantity of people for whom it did go like that. Remember that people can indeed be attracted to both sexes, and there seems to be quite a large margin of uncertainty about the actual prevalence of bisexuality in the population.
In fact, I wonder what part this may play in the debate. How many of those shouting "homosexuality is a choice" actually did make a real choice, themselves?
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 26 2017, @05:22PM (3 children)
If anyone had doubts as to what Muslims will do once they get in power. Have a deep study in to Chechnya!
And don't forget the countries in middle eastern..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 26 2017, @09:14PM (1 child)
If anyone had doubts as to what Muslims will do once they get in power. Have a deep study in to Chechnya!
Er, no.
Chechnya has been brutally repressed by Putin, for, you guessed it, oil.
It run by a puppet dictator, who makes a show of defying putin but the reality is he needs putins backing (and putin needs a reliable puppet).
This is about repression and the resource curse [wikipedia.org] more than it is about muslims, who are pretty chill in the largest muslim country in the world - Indonesia).
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 27 2017, @05:09AM
Your perception of Indonesia is inaccurate. Indonesia only gained its independence in 1950 after which it was taken over by a Islamic extremist who, along with his half dozen wives, engaged in mass murder [wikipedia.org] of "communist sympathizers, ethnic Chinese and alleged leftists" in 1965. The death toll was in the millions and that of course should not let us forget the mass imprisonments, torture, rape, and so on.
His successor was a more secular Muslim, but in his decline he began promoting and appointing fundamentalist Muslims to various government roles to try to appease growing unrest among more radical Muslims. It failed. He's out, they're still in. To this today Indonesia continues its decline with things like women's rights increasingly being thrown out the window. You have various regions enacting things like laws requiring all women wear the burqa. Groups like Hizb ut-Tahrir [wikipedia.org] Indonesia are also thriving. They're a radical Islam group whose goal is to reestablish the Islamic state. Indonesia is headed down the path to becoming the next Saudi Arabia within a couple of decades if nothing changes.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 27 2017, @02:32AM
what Muslims will do once they get in power. Have a deep study in to Chechnya!
Or, you could just visit Utah!!!
(Score: 2) by Hairyfeet on Wednesday April 26 2017, @05:47PM (2 children)
After all Islam is a "religion of peace", isn't that what the left says? And its no different than Christianity or Judaism? Funny I haven't see any concentration camps set up by the local Baptists, I guess I'll have to ask the local pastor about that..
ACs are never seen so don't bother. Always ready to show SJWs for the racists they are.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 26 2017, @06:42PM
> Funny I haven't see any concentration camps set up by the local Baptists,
You haven't seen any concentration camps set up by the local muslims either.
But maybe you remember this photo [time.com] of a christian run concentration camp imprisoning muslims [wikipedia.org] as part of the bosnian genocide.
And the pope just apologized for the catholic church's complicity in the Rwandan genocide [theguardian.com] of nearly a million people.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 27 2017, @02:39AM
Funny I haven't see any concentration camps set up by the local Baptists,
My Gawd you are an ignorant old bugger, Hairybrain! It was called "Andersonville". Thirteen thousand died, probably not including the Negros. Fucking racists!!