SoylentNews is people
SoylentNews
Humane Society International announces:
Humane Society International [HSI] in Brazil has teamed up with four cities in the northeastern state of Bahia--Serrinha, Barroca, Teofilandia, and Biritinga--and the local Public Prosecutor Office, to transition all of the meals served at its public school cafeterias to 100 percent plant-based by the end of 2019, reducing meat, dairy, and egg consumption by 25 percent per semester. This marks the first time in history that any school districts have committed to having exclusively plant-based cafeterias. The change will impact over 23 million meals a year [covering 30,000 students].
The launch of the project, called "Escola Sustentável" (Sustainable School), took place on Monday, March 19th, and was followed by four days of plant-based culinary trainings for the cities' school cooks, led by HSI's Chef André Vieland. Chef André taught cooks how to prepare cost-effective, nutritious recipes, using accessible local ingredients. Escola Sustentável's mission is to improve student health, reduce the cities' environmental footprint (especially water consumption), and empower local farmers who will be able to supply the school districts with plant-based foods. Leticia Baird, Brazilian Public Prosecutor for the Environment in the State of Bahia, who led the creation of this program, stated: "Providing our school districts with plant-based meals will help save environmental and public financial resources, allow for a future of healthy adults, and build a fair world for the animals."
Sandra Lopes, food policy manager for HSI in Brazil, stated: "We applaud the cities of Serrinha, Barroca, Teofilandia, and Biritinga for becoming the world's first school districts to commit to going 100 percent plant-based. It's an honor to have worked with city authorities, nutritionists, and school cooks on the adoption and implementation of this initiative, and we're excited to continue working closely with them to ensure the success of this program."
AlterNet adds:
School meals in those cities typically feature animal proteins such as beef, lamb, poultry, fish, eggs, milk, and butter, Brazilian publication Correio reported.[pt-br] Under the new, two-year experimental program, lunches will consist of soy, rice milk, peanut butter (instead of butter), vegetables, root vegetables, grains, and whole-wheat bread.
Definitive implementation of the program will depend on health outcomes of the students after the trial period, according to Correio. Students will undergo periodic tests that count blood, ferritin, vitamin B12, total cholesterol, triglycerides, and blood glucose levels. Weight, height, and body composition will also be measured.
Families who do not agree with the newly imposed diet can send their students to school with packed lunches from home, [Ms.] Baird [...] said.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by bob_super on Tuesday March 27 2018, @06:19PM (22 children)
Where is the closest lot that would accommodate building a McDonalds?
If I know anything about school lunches, it's that veggies are not exactly the popular choice. Those kids will kill for a burger...
More seriously: empty stomachs do not promote learning and growing. Save a few bucks, make extremists happy, and therefore fuck up a whole generation?
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 27 2018, @06:26PM (6 children)
Wait. You're suggesting there's a market opportunity for burgers, which I assume implies beef. Why would you then suggest a McDonalds?
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Tuesday March 27 2018, @06:29PM (4 children)
I see hungry kids, I bank on McDo.
I'd rather have The Habit myself, but for max profit, you should give your starving public what they want.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday March 27 2018, @11:38PM
Do they have enough money to pay for the food, or do you plan to exploit teens labour? Which of the two you bank on, McDo do both.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by dry on Tuesday March 27 2018, @11:49PM
So you want to torture these poor kids more by having the smell of hamburger that they can't afford outside their school?
(Score: 1, Redundant) by dry on Wednesday March 28 2018, @12:04AM
So you want to torture these poor kids with no money by making them smell hamburgers?
(Score: 1) by iru on Wednesday March 28 2018, @02:14PM
Fun fact: Brazilian McDonald meals have higher standards than their American counterparts.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday March 27 2018, @11:35PM
What exactly do you imply? (I have multiple possible interpretation of your snark)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Tuesday March 27 2018, @06:31PM (4 children)
"taught cooks how to prepare cost-effective, nutritious recipes, using accessible local ingredients." At least they're doing it right.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 27 2018, @06:55PM (1 child)
It's been a while since I was in school, but my kids concur with my recollections. School cooks are not known for their delicious offerings. I'd bet that there will be a lot more lunch packers in the future. Or you could do what my youngest did. When he discovered that his friends asked him to share the subs that his dad makes now and then, he went into business at school selling sandwiches. of course, I did not see any of the money to offset my raw material costs. ;-)
(Score: 2) by VLM on Wednesday March 28 2018, @12:48PM
Probably varies by district much like everything else education, but it seems common where I live for the design work to be done by the food service manager with a dietician degree at district HQ. If you want a high paying job for life with great bennies related to food, don't get a degree in food hospitality or WTF, stick with BS in dietician sciences or whatever the school district requires.
Kinda like the line workers at McDonalds know how to cook a delicious burger, its just at work all the decisions are made maybe ten corporate levels higher than their station.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Wednesday March 28 2018, @01:06AM
Just hang up some wolfsbane and tell the kids "free lunch! have at it!"
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Wednesday March 28 2018, @06:20AM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 5, Insightful) by acid andy on Tuesday March 27 2018, @07:07PM
If done properly, a vegan meal won't consist solely of the unpopular veg. Kids aren't carivores! This doesn't mean they have to eat a plate of just boiled cabbage and sprouts. Potatoes, beans, onion rings, in some cases mushrooms, all popular. Some of the kids will love chilli too and rice. They won't have empty stomachs.
If a cat has kittens, does a rat have rittens, a bat bittens and a mat mittens?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by edIII on Tuesday March 27 2018, @09:56PM (8 children)
You assume the stomachs would be empty. You can get your fill from the food, since it is not just all veggies. They have whole grains involved too, and bread is filling. Half the reason why a big burger is filling is because of the bread and fries. Try eating a lettuce wrapped burger, even with cheese, and tell me that you're still not hungry.
I doubt that malnutrition will be a problem since it is a pilot study and they're paying close attention to the children's health. Which I would imagine would be contrasted against scholastic scores too.
This is teaching a whole generation a different, and more sustainable, way of eating.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Tuesday March 27 2018, @10:33PM (4 children)
One *can* do attractive and satisfying Vegan food. I've seen it done, often in Chinese restaurants. But this doesn't mean it's easy, and this doesn't mean it's what I expect.
What I really expect is that they'll add enough sugar to everything to make it acceptable. This will eventually show up on the kids weight and glucose measurements, but not for a year or so. At which point they'll quietly call the thing off. But time may tell.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by bob_super on Tuesday March 27 2018, @10:38PM (3 children)
If I had to be a strict vegetarian, I'd rush off to India.
If I had to be a strict vegan, I'd rush off the top of a tall building, bridge or cliff.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by linuxrocks123 on Tuesday March 27 2018, @11:38PM (2 children)
Perhaps you should look around you and find more interesting ways to derive pleasure from life than eating food. It's eat to live, not live to eat.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by bob_super on Wednesday March 28 2018, @12:05AM (1 child)
Given your screen name, I have to ask how much fun it would be to have to spend all your computer time on Windows 2.0. (not wishing ME or Vista on you, I'm evil, but I may have my limits).
Not eating well is a damper on your whole existence. Like a terrible job you don't want to get out of bed for, but since the family gotta survive...
Anyway, the original comment was more related to the state of mind, since I am not aware of any single medical condition that forces people to give up on everything that's an Abomination Onto Vegan. Turning Vegan would be like turning Zombie, and I'd need one of you to Mercy Me.
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Wednesday March 28 2018, @04:29PM
There's no single medical condition per se that would force someone to become Vegan. There's also no real reason why you can't eat healthily or unhealthily as a Vegan. Refined Sugar is Vegan and is arguably as bad as or worse than red meat. Meat is also expensive. Poor people can get better quality vegan food to sustain them at a price they can afford. Random hunk of meat != healthy. I've grown up Vegetarian and I've tried various meats. Well prepared meat tastes good. Same goes for Vegetables, Fruits, Nuts, and Grains. Good nutrition isn't about getting a slab of meat or not getting a slab of meat. It's about getting a balanced diet. That diet can include or exclude meat, dairy and eggs. The biggest issue is making sure you're getting good quality meat, dairy and eggs. There's too much industrialized production of them in unhealthy conditions. Pumping all of the animals up with hormones + vaccinations isn't the answer.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 2, Troll) by Gaaark on Wednesday March 28 2018, @01:09AM (1 child)
and if it's a catholic school, the priests will have lots of nutritious protein to give them: the kids only have to suck it up through the 'straw'......
:-%
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Thursday March 29 2018, @12:32AM
Troll, huh.
"The humour is weak in this one."
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Wednesday March 28 2018, @06:23AM
Grains are veggies.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 27 2018, @06:23PM (33 children)
This is terrible. If you don't like meat or animal products, don't eat them. Children are fast growing and have a lot less margin for error in terms of their nutritional needs.
At least they're allowing the parents to send their children to school with a lunch, but I shudder to think what happens to kids that don't have that option. Veganism is not a healthy lifestyle, no matter how much made up bullshit is used to rationalize the decision. Humans are omnivores in that we naturally eat both animal and plant matter as a matter of nutrition. And while there are a small number of societies that have completely eliminated one or the other, the optimum is going to involve both. It's how our bodies evolved and cutting one or the other out comes with consequences.
The alleged health benefits of veganism only appear when you include meat eaters that have a particularly unhealthy diet. Comparing against people who eat moderate amounts of meat and animal products is much less flattering.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 27 2018, @06:42PM (12 children)
While I do agree, I think seeing this as a health crisis is an overreaction. You're free to eat meat at home all you want every day, one vegetarian meal a day isn't going to hurt you... except maybe if they stuff everything full of soy.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by bob_super on Tuesday March 27 2018, @06:49PM (7 children)
Depending on the family's income, meat at school can often be the only meat a kid gets.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 27 2018, @07:00PM (6 children)
why aren't you people turning this into a conservatives versus social justice warriors argument when the country has nothing to do with that except for being unfairly labeled due to unrealistic stereotypes being impressed upon them? but they do have corruption so i can give them that similarity to us politics.
i only come here to see people froth at the mouth and its not happening. what is wrong??
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Tuesday March 27 2018, @07:05PM (4 children)
If it had been vegetarian or "pizza is a vegetable", maybe ...
But if there's a side that very few here will ever side with, it's gotta be Vegans.
(Score: 2) by acid andy on Wednesday March 28 2018, @12:09AM (3 children)
Not just here. Almost everywhere. But Veganism is on the increase and more importantly, awareness and understanding of it is increasing too. Which is good because there are so many misconceptions about it.
If a cat has kittens, does a rat have rittens, a bat bittens and a mat mittens?
(Score: 2) by slap on Wednesday March 28 2018, @06:10AM (2 children)
My son did the Vegan thing for a year while living with us. So you could say that I'm far more aware than most since I do all of the grocery shopping.
It's a fucking pain in the ass. I can understand being a vegetarian, but reading all of the goddamn labels on every single fucking item? It's amazing how many things have a tiny percentage of dairy products so you have to opt for the much more expensive true Vegan option...
He now has seen the error in his ways. He absolutely loves my grilled chicken and pork, and bacon!
For "easter" dinner (most of us are atheists) he's going to cook pulled pork.
(Score: 2) by acid andy on Wednesday March 28 2018, @10:52AM
You're right. It is a pain in the ass. That's mostly down to the food labeling, but that's getting better too. More things are actually marked vegan than 5-10 years ago.
To an extent though, trusting any food label is an act of blind faith. The best way to control what you eat is to cook from basic ingredients. It often saves money and makes nicer food too.
If a cat has kittens, does a rat have rittens, a bat bittens and a mat mittens?
(Score: 2) by VLM on Wednesday March 28 2018, @01:10PM
I go thru the same thing for more than a decade with my son's medically diagnosed allergy (as opposed to trendy TV actor self-diagnosis of the same disease, etc).
My experience is you can cheat a little and spend inordinate amounts of money on "priestly blessed" near imitations of the stuff that made the kid sick. However its super expensive and generally tastes awful. Whereas genuine food that is naturally "whatever" usually tastes pretty good.
In my son's case something like a little steak with a big chefs salad tastes a lot better than a cupcake made with GF potato flour that smells like a potato chip when its cooked and the texture is all off.
In my own case I mostly eat paleo type food; Again you can buy really disgusting paleo imitations of ice cream and paleo junk food in general, but the again as per above a steak dinner hold the garlic bread is simpler cheaper and much more delicious.
Likewise I'd anticipate the Vegan thing is a huge PITA if you're trying to buy fake vegan cheese and fake vegan meat, but if you stick to fresh produce and grains for all meals, I imagine its easier and tastes better.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday March 27 2018, @07:12PM
(Score: 3, Informative) by Pino P on Tuesday March 27 2018, @06:59PM (2 children)
Or if your child has a peanut allergy. Some schools elsewhere forbid peanut products in even packed lunches because of a handful of peanut allergic students.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 28 2018, @05:04AM (1 child)
I'm allergic to RWNJs (that's right wing NUT jobs)
(Score: 3, Insightful) by slap on Wednesday March 28 2018, @06:12AM
I'm allergic to nutjobs on the right and left. Because both suffer from a disease.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 27 2018, @11:41PM
The problem is as already stated that often times the school lunch is the only nutritious meal that a child gets and possibly the only one at all. Students shouldn't be forced to eat vegan at school if their parents can't or won't provide a bag lunch. Especially if there aren't any steps being taken to ensure that the children aren't receiving nutritious meals at home as well.
A small amount of meat in a student's lunch isn't going to make them fat or unhealthy, but it does make it a lot easier to make sure that the student is getting all of the necessary nutritional content.
There's also the problem that I saw when I was a kid. There was this one kid whose parents were extremely strict at home and he'd just absolutely go nuts when they weren't around. Since they weren't letting him make any of his own choices, he had little experience making them. I remember one time he wound up knocked out and lying in the back of a truck for a bit because of his poor judgement.
Similarly, nobody is suggesting that these kids need access to junk food at school, especially for meals paid for by the school, but if you don't allow the students to make decisions about which healthy options they choose, then you run the risk of them growing older without knowing how to make those decisions or any experience doing so.
(Score: 5, Informative) by takyon on Tuesday March 27 2018, @07:21PM (16 children)
Can we get one link that supports any of your claims?
https://www.forksoverknives.com/the-myth-of-complementary-protein/ [forksoverknives.com]
https://www.vegansociety.com/resources/nutrition-and-health/nutrients/vitamin-b12/what-every-vegan-should-know-about-vitamin-b12 [vegansociety.com]
Add a source of B12 and you're good.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 27 2018, @07:46PM
What's this? Facts? Updated research? Blasphemy! Away with your facts, so that we can froth at the mouth about blue-haired vegans!
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 27 2018, @08:02PM (12 children)
Take these four, please don't choke on your crow. ;)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28040519/ [nih.gov]
http://www.couriermail.com.au/archive/lifestyle/going-veggie-shrinks-the-brain/news-story/25a663862ec85ba68dabdaf9385daf1f [couriermail.com.au]
http://evolutionarypsychiatry.blogspot.com/2012/06/youre-vegetarian-have-you-lost-your.html [blogspot.com]
http://news.cornell.edu/stories/2016/03/eating-green-could-be-your-genes [cornell.edu]
(posted to parent thread at first, sorry)
(Score: 4, Touché) by takyon on Tuesday March 27 2018, @08:20PM (11 children)
The Great Redundo
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 27 2018, @09:45PM (10 children)
OK, so that doctor's article about the complete protein myth actually doesn't say what the headline says it says (and makes a very weak, hand-wavy case for what it purports to say).
Sure, you can get all your amino acids from vegetables. This isn't new news; it's been well known for a long time. The trick is which vegetables, and prepared how? Not all vegetables contain all significant amino acids, and even the ones that do contain them in varying quantities. Simply stuffing yourself with brown rice and black beans will not give you a balanced diet. This is one reason for vegans having such a hard-on for soy and quinoa. (It turns out that Brazil is a major soy grower, so I bet that factors into the argument in a big way. Big money wins again ...) It also turns out that messing with the diets of people who are growing bodies (both children and pregnant women, but also body builders) can have major ill effects on their health - in particular related to the availability of calcium and protein. You won't be growing much in the way of muscles and bones without those, and the diseases of deficiency that you get without them are rare in the first world, but very well-documented.
The doctor waves his hands cavalierly over the topic of who needs how much of which proteins and why, simply declaring that we need much less than we think based on the original sources for that information. Unfortunately there's a long list of (again, well-understood) reasons why the usual recommendation might not be enough. If you're twenty-five years old, sedentary, not pregnant and happy to avoid gyms and other sources of effort, you can get away with very small amounts. If you're a manual labourer, that is a problem. If you're pregnant, a low protein diet is a real problem for you and the fetus alike. If you're a child, low protein intake can cause retardation and stunting. Simply declaring ex cathedra that eating a vegetable diet will get you all you need along with calories is only conditionally true, at best.
The doctor's strongest argument based on available information is that it's possible to have a healthy vegetarian diet.
Yeah, great. We knew that. Thanks a bunch.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 27 2018, @10:23PM (9 children)
you can get all your amino acids from vegetables
Rather than saying "vegetables", "plant sources" would be better.
If you regularly eat a legume with a grain, you will get all the amino acids your body needs to build proteins.
Pasta and garbanzos.
Bread and hummus.
Kidney beans and rice.
Burritos.
Frijole dip and tortilla strips.
3-bean soup with crackers.
Lentil soup with pasta alphabits.
brown rice and black beans
Yup. That works too.
The possibilities are legion.
stuffing yourself with...
Most people greatly overestimate the amount of protein they need.
Now, what I think of as "veggies" adds micronutrients (vitamins and minerals) to your diet.
Don't forget some nuts now and then as well.
Vitamin B12 is the only thing missing from a diet with no animal products.
How to synthesize B12 for pennies has been known for over half a century.
...and its rare that I can't beat the price of the cheapest on-sale animal product by a factor of at least 2 by shopping in the produce aisle.
The differential is typically A LOT greater.
Veggies are much better for the budget.
My cardiologist would rather that I stay away from animal products as well.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 27 2018, @10:44PM (7 children)
So far so good.
Now we come to the other problem: agronomy.
Can we grow enough of the right kind of vegetable sources to get enough of the right kinds of amino acids to everybody to get them a balanced diet?
(Spoiler alert: no. If you exclude petrochemical and other exhaustible mineral fertilisation sources, that turns to Hell, no!)
But it's all good for the privileged few who can be so picky as to eat vegan.
(Score: 2) by dry on Wednesday March 28 2018, @12:15AM (3 children)
Just grow hemp, grows like a weed, the seeds have complete protein, all the essential oils, most of the essential B vitamins and as I said, grows like a weed.
(Score: 2) by deimtee on Wednesday March 28 2018, @09:31AM (2 children)
Serious question. If hemp grows that fast and is that good as a food source, it should be the diet of choice for a whole raft of insects and animals. Is it?
If not, why do bugs and critters avoid it?
If you cough while drinking cheap red wine it really cleans out your sinuses.
(Score: 2) by VLM on Wednesday March 28 2018, @01:22PM
Wikipedia implies but does not state that insects may not like THC very much. "Journal of the International Hemp Association" claims it very explicitly, but I donno if the source is trustworthy. The idea in a post-legalization world of gardeners spraying food crops with 5-gallon buckets of pure THC is kinda weird, but probably would work. Rinse off your apple before eating it or you'll get pretty high...
With respect to animals, some googling around indicates without extensive industrial processing and masking by stronger flavors, low-THC hemp tastes like grass and dirt, so almost anything else would taste better, although I imagine hungry herbivores would ravage a hemp field if they got into it. High-THC weed probably doesn't taste good to animals plus or minus getting high.
(Score: 2) by dry on Wednesday March 28 2018, @02:41PM
Lots of bugs and animals like to eat the leaves, though it is mostly birds that like to eat the seeds, which ripen pretty late in the season for bugs, at least around here. It's the seeds that are nutritious, as well as not containing any active compounds.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 28 2018, @12:37AM (2 children)
[Can't] grow enough of the right kind of vegetable sources [...] If you exclude petrochemical and other exhaustible mineral fertilisation sources
Your sources of information are poor.
It's clear that you consume large amounts of USAian propaganda.
Native Americans were growing more than enough food long before petrochemicals. [wikipedia.org]
Digging up shit that's been sequestered for tens of millions of years is NOT an infinite resource as Tower of Power has said. [google.com]
Some places are doing community gardens and maximizing other unused resources.
Cuba, in particular. [googleusercontent.com] (orig) [counterpunch.org]
Even the city of Havana uses every undeveloped area to grow food for itself.
N.B. Over a century ago, a really smart English dude named Henry George [archive.is] (orig) [dissidentvoice.org] came up with a taxation notion that would have gotten idle land down to approximately zero.
The "communes" in Venezuela are currently riffing on his ideas, expropriating farmland that has been abandoned and putting it back into production.
Folks in Africa have also found that USAian-patented seeds and petrochemicals are unnecessary for bountiful yields. [googleusercontent.com] (orig) [truth-out.org]
These guys aren't vegan, but they turned saltwater and desert into a sustainable ecosystem. [googleusercontent.com] (orig) [dankalia.com]
Again, it's clear that your vision has been tainted by USAian corporatist bullshit.
The big problem here on Earth is Capitalism (an ownership model that has long since outlived its usefulness).
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 28 2018, @03:18AM (1 child)
The point about boosted yields from petrochemicals comes right back to Norman Borlaug.
Yes, yes, he improved yields a lot with breeding. That's great. We got that memo. The problem is that so much of agriculture is limited by sheer pace of nutrient cycles that anything above that level of activity amounts to strip-mining the soil for historically placed nutrients. Now, you can supplement it with oceanic resources (kelp, baitfish and so on) that do help, but even so it's far from ideal.
And even if you decided somehow to fertilise all the everything with oceanic resources (that are themselves limited by the way), you still run into the problem that no power on earth will turn Wyoming into the next Garden State. Sheer altitude and climate dictate the limits. Land is quite simply not fungible, which is one reason that driving the indians into the high plains was such a cruel blow - the palefaces had quite correctly assessed the relative value of various pieces of land, and repeatedly took the best bits for themselves.
The same applies worldwide. Much of each continent is quite hostile to agriculture, and takes specialised knowledge and substantial investments to make really productive. In fact, it was Norman Borlaug (among others) who calculated the carrying capacity of earth and figured out that the Malthusian trap is a tragically real one.
But please, by all means show the way. Get some land, roll up your sleeves and show us all how it's done.
You should get a Nobel prize if you're right.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 28 2018, @04:56AM
If you were half as aware as you want folks to think you are, you'd know about this guy. [wikipedia.org]
He was a bit of a legend in the field of farming in the city.
I've mentioned him several times [soylentnews.org] before. [soylentnews.org]
The "before" link has another guy saying basically the same thing: Build your soil via EARTHWORMS.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 27 2018, @11:55PM
My doctor put me on a low carb diet. Not a whole lot on that list of yours I can eat.
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Tuesday March 27 2018, @10:40PM
I found one wrong "fact" in the linked site, and stopped believing (or reading) it. If they had been a bit less simplistic I might have considered them seriously enough to check them further.
In particular there exists at least one whole plant food no matter how much of which you eat will not provide you with a sufficient amount of balanced amino acids. Try sugar cane. Or iceberg lettuce. So one of their central assertions is wrong.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Wednesday March 28 2018, @07:01AM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 27 2018, @07:59PM (2 children)
Take these four, please don't choke on your crow. ;)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28040519/ [nih.gov]
http://www.couriermail.com.au/archive/lifestyle/going-veggie-shrinks-the-brain/news-story/25a663862ec85ba68dabdaf9385daf1f [couriermail.com.au]
http://evolutionarypsychiatry.blogspot.com/2012/06/youre-vegetarian-have-you-lost-your.html [blogspot.com]
http://news.cornell.edu/stories/2016/03/eating-green-could-be-your-genes [cornell.edu]
(Score: 2) by takyon on Tuesday March 27 2018, @08:18PM (1 child)
Your first link doesn't find a mortality difference, which is different than saying "a vegan diet will harm/kill you". Relevant to the TFA, but not the comment I replied to.
The second link talks about B12 deficiency, which I addressed. It also fails to note that yeast extracts don't contain B12 by default, they have to be fortified with it.
The third link says the diet does not seem to be causally linked with mental illness.
Your fourth link finds that for most of the world, a vegetarian diet is appropriate. The map in the article doesn't seem to agree with some of the numbers quoted, but it seems to indicate that over 40% of South Americans have the allele.
So I don't think I'll be choking on crows anytime soon. Even though I'm not a vegetarian or vegan anyway. And as is typical with metabolism and nutrition studies, someone who feels like Googling more can probably come up with the opposite conclusions.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 27 2018, @08:44PM
Why am I not surprised?
And the other 60% should be written off as acceptable losses. Or what?
I readily believe you know more vegan propaganda sites than the two you've linked.
(Score: 4, Informative) by LoRdTAW on Tuesday March 27 2018, @06:59PM (9 children)
The purpose being?
Doable without vegan nonsense.
Not the cities water direct consumption but the meat industry, which is a very large consumer of water.
How are they barred from doing so now? Do schools not serve vegetables in Brazil?
Honestly, this is nothing more than an agenda pushed by a group who has no authority on nutrition. This isn't helping kids, it's helping their cause.
You want to be healthy and low impact? Reduce meat and dairy consumption (reduce animal fats) plus cutting added sugars completely. I lost about 30 lbs over the last 8 months by removing added sugars and cutting meats.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 27 2018, @07:03PM
yay! i got the frothing I wanted!!
but the example by anecdote was most unexpected. it is almost like you wrote with authority and knowledge on the topic, which barely happens in the battle of the defenders of the conservative way and the social justice warrior agenda.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by edIII on Tuesday March 27 2018, @10:11PM (6 children)
I don't see how a group is pushing any agenda. Like you said, you reduced your meat consumption. Bob_Super has a pretty good point about how some families may not be able to afford meat otherwise, but on the whole, I think this is a good thing. If we wanted to be really moderate, the school could introduce a few days to eat meat, maybe once per week.
It's the teaching kids how to cook, and how to prepare vegetables to make them tasty and edible, that I like. Teaching them to have more meals without meat in them is a very good thing.
Let's not forget that these kids will be under medical supervision the entire time, since the people pushing this want data to justify keeping the program. I don't think that would part of a Vegan agenda.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 27 2018, @10:38PM
A vegetarian diet is not the same as a Vegan diet
...and they're doing the transition in steps.
FTFS: reducing meat, dairy, and egg consumption by 25 percent per semester
these kids will be under medical supervision the entire time
Done right, they could be the healthiest kids on the planet.
Additionally, 23 million meals a year [covering 30,000 students] sounds to me like the kids will be taking 3 meals a day at school.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 27 2018, @11:45PM (3 children)
There are no health benefits cutting animal products from a minimal amount to zero. A diet that has roughly 10-20% of calories coming from nutritionally sound animal products is typically best for people. Cutting it below that point makes it hard to get enough essential nutrients like cholesterol. Cholesterol, which BTW is rather important as it's not just the molecule that the body uses to manage the flexibility of the membranes in the cardiovascular system, but also the basis for some of our hormones.
The evidence against eating any meat or animal products is scant at best. We evolved eating meat when possible as well as fruits and vegetables and there's a certain amount of evidence needed to prove that isn't the best for us. We know that eating excessive amounts of meat and animal products is unhealthy, but that doesn't mean that cutting all of it out is going to lead to better health.
(Score: 2) by edIII on Wednesday March 28 2018, @12:47AM (2 children)
To be fair, the program sounds like one of the three meals per day that these kids should be eating. Nothing says that some of them might not have a bacon & egg sandwich for breakfast, or some baked chicken casserole later on. I know this is Brazil, but I don't know what the food there is like.
Let's face it. The majority of the site membership would probably be greatly served by replacing a lunch with meat, with a lunch sourced entirely from vegetables.
I'm only hearing vegetarian for lunch. I do agree that the program would be better served by introducing meat once per week. Grilled chicken is pretty damn healthy.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Wednesday March 28 2018, @01:17AM
I love Cuke, it´s heaven in a can!
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 28 2018, @02:12AM
Here in South America, not a lot of vegetables are eaten (in comparison with the amount of meat, that is). People on the lower end of the socio economic scale are basically eating beans, grains and meat. Even if you are in the better-off end of society, depending on where you live, it can often be difficult to get a meal with any reasonable amount of vegetables. You may get a bit of tomato and onion "salad". Believe me, those kids would be *stuffed* full of chicken. Chicken is plentiful and cheap in these parts; in contrast, a plate of *real* salad can cost you way, way, way more more than a cheap-ass crumbed chicken and fries with rice and a coke. Another factor is that we have so many young mothers, they often never get much past 9th year at school, and so have the same kind of relationship with food as uneducated westerners, which gets passed down to their kids, etc.
It's a cultural thing. It's good to see this occurring - especially given that governments down this way are not renowned for being particularly charitable.
TL;DR The kids will get a vitamin boost compared to their regular diets. Some of those kids may have never had a salad or veggie meal in their lives. It's a nice thing to happen. :)
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 28 2018, @02:42AM
Tasty and edible vegetables is not something I normally associate with school lunches. Edible possibly, but definitely not tasty. They can fuck up mashed potatoes.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by FatPhil on Wednesday March 28 2018, @07:19AM
What do you have against the CLA and stearic acid that's in my beef steak? Do you object to reducing belly fat and LDL levels for some reason?
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 27 2018, @07:01PM (9 children)
Build a fair world for animals? Is Berkley shipping some of their crazy tree huggers to Brazil? Or has PETA infected South America with their brand of crazy?
(Score: 3, Touché) by takyon on Tuesday March 27 2018, @07:10PM (7 children)
What would be fair is if we raised humans for animal consumption.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by archfeld on Tuesday March 27 2018, @08:11PM (1 child)
So says a soylent subscriber...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IKVj4l5GU4 [youtube.com]
For the NSA : Explosives, guns, assassination, conspiracy, primers, detonators, initiators, main charge, nuclear charge
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Wednesday March 28 2018, @01:19AM
So say we all!
SO. SAY. WE. ALL!!!
Man, i'd kill for a McDonald.
;)
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Tuesday March 27 2018, @10:47PM (2 children)
Well, on could claim the Zoroastrians raised humans for animal consumption, considering their funerary practices. Though they discouraged consumption by rats, and, to a lesser extent, mice. And favored birds.
The constructed racks out in the countryside on which the corpses of the deceased were laid to be eaten. Of course, the corpses had usually been dead for a day or two before they got there, but the eagles didn't seem to mind.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 2) by archfeld on Thursday March 29 2018, @10:59PM (1 child)
To be eaten for food or as part of a religious ceremony ? Zoroastrians as I understand worshipped God in the form of a flame, and thus the burning bush was a good Segway into the newest shiniest form of religion at the time Judaism. I wish I had spent more time studying comparative religion when I was in school, but there were other things that drew my more immediate attention, such as studying women, and beer, and pot.
For the NSA : Explosives, guns, assassination, conspiracy, primers, detonators, initiators, main charge, nuclear charge
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Friday March 30 2018, @12:58AM
The bodies were usually mainly eaten by birds, but climbing animals probably got a bit. Eagles is what they wrote about.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 28 2018, @02:44AM (1 child)
Why don't you volunteer to be the first in line? Nobody here would miss you.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Wednesday March 28 2018, @02:46AM
So says the AC scumbag. Get into our Soylent meat grinder and feed the Brazilians.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by archfeld on Tuesday March 27 2018, @08:08PM
Not from Berkeley, they are too busy sitting with their fingers in their ears chanting I am in a safe spot and can't hear you...
For the NSA : Explosives, guns, assassination, conspiracy, primers, detonators, initiators, main charge, nuclear charge
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 27 2018, @07:35PM (8 children)
Man, that is A LOT of cities! I didn't know there were that many cities in the whole world. I can never remember the names for the exponents past a million. What order of magnitude is a brazilian again?
(Score: 3, Funny) by bob_super on Tuesday March 27 2018, @08:55PM
A Brazillian is between 10% and 25% of the starting amount, but maybe in this case it's probably used as a unit of pain.
As in "ask school cafeteria personnel to force kids to eat cafeteria veggies: they say they'd rather get 4 Brazillians, even the men"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 27 2018, @10:53PM (5 children)
The first time that I heard a joke with that usage, it was poking fun at chickenhawk[1] Dubya.
Aide: Sir, 4 Brazilian soldiers were killed today in Afghanistan.
Dubya: Man, I didn't even realize we had that many soldiers over there.
[1] George W. Bush enlisted in the Texas Air National Guard and was trained to fly the obsolete F-102 Delta Dagger.
In the Vietnam era, National Guard units were never deployed to combat zones.
The most "action" they ever saw was when they were called on to murder USAian children. [wikipedia.org]
After multiple student deferments, chickenhawk John Bolton (currently nominated as Trump's National Security Advisor) used the same method to dodge the draft, joining the NJ Army National Guard.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 28 2018, @03:24AM (4 children)
You make an astonishingly good point. Nobody should be permitted to run for president unless they actually served and got that Combat Infantry Badge. Anyone else? Chickenhawk. You were an intelligence analyst, sitting on your butt in a nice safe air-conditioned office? Chickenhawk. Chopper repair? Chickenhawk. Medic? Chickenhawk.
And, to keep it straight throughout society, we'll make sure that nobody can vote unless they at least worked for the government in some regular capacity. After all, what does some Silicon Valley pencilneck know about the hazards and complexities of public policy? Some inbred hick farmer? Some buttcrack plumber?
Heinlein was right. You heard it from -- gewg_ first, folks.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 28 2018, @05:01AM
Nice https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man [wikipedia.org]
But I guess you like corruption and government by the elite for the elite.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 28 2018, @05:05AM
You seem to have completely missed the core of the idea.
A Hawk is someone who advocates for war.
A Chickenhawk is someone who advocates for sending OTHER PEOPLE to war after he has found a way to assure that he himself will never be in a combat zone.
Don't want to be called a Chickenhawk?
Start by not advocating for military aggression.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 28 2018, @07:43AM
I would actually say that noone should be allowed to vote for[1] a war unless they've been on the ground in an actual war themselves, so they at least know what they are voting for.
[1] They should still be allowed to vote against, many people are smart enough to realize they don't want to try something without actually trying it (Darwin awards are the exception, not the rule). It's the ones that are demonstrating that they want (other people) to try it that I want to make sure they know what they are voting for.
(Score: 2) by archfeld on Thursday March 29 2018, @11:09PM
Hooray for Heinlein. I am not sure it should be limited to just military service, but some sort of service I could agree to. I fully support those will serve in the Peace Corps but will not carry rifle. I am not sure I could go over to say Iraq and defend the petrochemical corporations right to profit but can and do respect the hell out those that volunteer to defend our country. Woe unto any who think to invade US territory, I could and would defend our lands and people here. I am ashamed sometimes at what I fear the CIA is doing in the name of our countries interests abroad. You telling me you don't appreciate that combat medic or MASH surgeon, or the air cab who flies in under fire, unarmed to retrieve the wounded ?
For the NSA : Explosives, guns, assassination, conspiracy, primers, detonators, initiators, main charge, nuclear charge
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 28 2018, @02:47AM
As I recall, a Brazilian is the practice of stripping the cooch from any and all fur. I'd go with a magnitude of "best".
(Score: 2) by quacking duck on Tuesday March 27 2018, @07:47PM (6 children)
Mildly surprised peanut butter will be part of this, I thought anything nut-based was either banned or very restricted in many schools in North America due to allergies. Are such allergies just far less prevalent or at least less severe in South America?
(Score: 3, Informative) by LoRdTAW on Tuesday March 27 2018, @08:07PM
Don't forget that soy is another common food allergy and at the top of their list.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 27 2018, @11:48PM (4 children)
Probably. Even in the US back in the '80s they were infrequent enough that having peanuts in your lunch wasn't a problem. And it was unheard of for people to be so allergic that they couldn't be in the same room as the proteins to which they were allergic.
It's hard to say exactly why that's changed, but the aseptic environment that children are raised in is probably part of it. As is the increasingly processed foods that include all sorts of things that weren't in our diets at all until recently. And probably other things as well.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 28 2018, @02:51AM
That's because since the 20 aughts, we have been utterly overcome with severe cases of hypochondria. It coincides with a major increase in social media and a major downturn in IQ and critical thinking.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 28 2018, @07:54AM
Allergies are often[1] an overly active "uh oh, here's something I haven't dealt with before" immune response.
When people get so afraid of allergies that they avoid giving their kids things that can cause allergic reactions, even though the kids are not allergic, there will be a lot of "something I haven't dealt with before" reactions later in life[2].
[1] Often, not always. Some people are born without the ability to digest peanuts.
[2] Early in life, everything is "something I haven't dealt with before", but everything in the body of a young child is set up for trying new things.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by VLM on Wednesday March 28 2018, @01:29PM (1 child)
Advanced lifesaving technology as a business process. The whole "paramedic at your door in two minutes" thing didn't really exist before, oh, roughly gen-X. So toddler allergic to peanut butter eats peanut butter in 1900 and dies, so nobody in school knows anyone with a peanut allergy. Toddler does the same thing in 1990 and the EMTs rush the kid to the hospital etc and the kid can possibly spend most of a normal lifetime if they avoid peanuts so everyone knows someone with a peanut allergy.
Sorta like type-I diabetes where in 1000 AD they simply died so no one knew anyone with type-I diabetes, but now they live, so its not unusual at all that I had a coworker with type-I. I'm not sure type-I is any more or less common than it used to be, its just not an immediate death penalty anymore.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 28 2018, @05:12PM
probably, brazilians don't have nearly as many allergies due to having different gene altering intoxicants in their immediate environment that the typical US resident is exposed to that causes these problems that didn't exist before VLM was born.
(Score: 2) by archfeld on Tuesday March 27 2018, @08:03PM (1 child)
What is sustainable about an empty school ? I don't mind eating vegetarian for a nice change, but Vegan is outside my scope, I like eggs, and cheese too much. I am and have always been a dedicated omnivore, if I can catch it I will try and eat it. What about crickets and insect protein ?
For the NSA : Explosives, guns, assassination, conspiracy, primers, detonators, initiators, main charge, nuclear charge
(Score: 3, Touché) by Freeman on Wednesday March 28 2018, @04:51PM
You can keep your crickets and insect protein. I'd eat a steak, before I'd eat those.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 3, Informative) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday March 27 2018, @08:33PM (4 children)
I'm worried this is another case of greenwashing. Does their "sustainable" actually mean sustainable, or does it mean something else entirely?
Besides which, if they're going to do this vegan thing right, they're going to need to make sure a wide variety of different foods are available, not just plain vegetables. Lots of beans, good whole-grain bread if they can get it, mushrooms, etc. And I hope the cooks know their way around a spice rack. Then there's the question of vitamins...
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Tuesday March 27 2018, @10:54PM (3 children)
Yes, the training of the cooks is a real concern here. With properly trained cooks it's quite possible to turn out tasty vegan meals that are well balanced...though I've noticed that stir frys don't seem to keep very well. They're delicious the first night, but the next day they are a chore to eat...and best reprocessed as soup.
That said, it's quite possible to do the job, and to save lots of money, and still have delicious meals. But schools are not known for turning out delicious meals even with ingredients that make the job easy. I've even got memories of spaghetti with red sauce that was nearly inedible...and that was decades ago.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday March 28 2018, @02:07AM (1 child)
Oh, I went to NYC public schools in the 90s...know exactly what you mean, though i actually *liked* everything they served. That's me, Marissa Iron-Guts, LOL. Have things improved since then, would you say? Because back then "PB&J, and fuck your allergies" was their vegan option...
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Wednesday March 28 2018, @05:38AM
I don't really know. It's been decades since I went to school, and even then I packed my lunch. (Economics, not cuisine. I don't even know what the cuisine usually was, since I only ate there when my mother was too pressed for time to arrange things.) How often did they serve SOS?
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by VLM on Wednesday March 28 2018, @01:38PM
You can't stir fry and serve 800 kids per hour with four minimum wage employees using woks. Everything served at school MUST come from a tray loaded into a bulk oven/steamer machine.
The veggies must be raw (salad bar style) or steamed/ovened.
This also extends to food prep. If it doesn't come in a 25 pound bag at costco, or a #10 tin can, it can't be prepared in bulk fast enough. No chopping up onions by hand to immediately serve that many kids.
This extends the problem to logistics. It could be possible for some weird centralized facility to deliver fresh-ISH food takeout style, kinda, some giant building with 50 employees cooking like mad instead of 4 onsite employees. Maybe if kids ate in shifts from 10am to 2pm it would average out. Who's going to pay for a lot more lunch ladies labor?
There's a scaling issue where we're talking about feeding all of America's school kids which is a lot of kids, but using hipster unscalable standards of local hand made fresh which humanity can't afford in bulk, only a fraction of special snowflakes can eat like that. It would be like fetishizing kobe beef for schoolkids meals, we can't make that much.