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Last winter, as an FBI hostage rescue team took up an elevated position to assess an unfolding crisis, agents heard the buzz of small drones approaching.
Soon, the tiny unmanned aircraft had the team surrounded, swooping past in a series of "high-speed low passes at the agents in the observation post to flush them," Joe Mazel, head of the agency's operational technology law unit, told attendees of the AUVSI Xponential conference in Denver on Wednesday. The swarm caused the group to lose situational awareness of the target.
"We were then blind," Mazel said, according to a Defense One account of the session at the conference focusing on unmanned technologies. "It definitely presented some challenges."
Also at https://www.theverge.com/2018/5/4/17318080/criminals-drones-swarm-fbi-raid
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 05 2018, @11:30PM (18 children)
What? The FBI don't carry shotguns to shoot down pesky drones? That is really hard to believe.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Sunday May 06 2018, @12:54AM (17 children)
Yeah, "caused us to lose situational awareness"
What, one guy watches while the other/s shoot down the drones.
How hard is that, and should be standard procedure!
Either fake, or they suck at their job.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 06 2018, @01:20AM
Why not both?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by RandomFactor on Sunday May 06 2018, @02:01AM (14 children)
FBI shotguns are likely going to be be loaded with buckshot or slugs. Buckshot is comparable to multiple .32 to .35 caliber pistol rounds and shouldn't be fired into the air.
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Buckshot is used to kill BUCKS (male deer), which are ~human-comparable. While a terminal velocity falling bullet is moving much slower than when fired, it is still moving at hundreds of feet per second and can be damaging, injurious, or even lethal.
.
Hunters shooting birds/trap/skeet (or drones...?) use smaller pellets for safety reasons, smaller pellets fall much closer, more slowly, and are more surprising than dangerous when they rain down on you.
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(Score: 2) by frojack on Sunday May 06 2018, @06:27AM (10 children)
Nice pontificating.
Truth is you have no clue what the FBI had in their shotguns, or even if they carried any shotguns.
Nor can you point to a single documented case of falling buckshot injuring anybody. Buckshot is extremely range limited.
And finally we don't even know if there was more than one drone, or the drones were the FBI'S own drones and their own pilots lost situational awareness and started buzzing their own agents. The whole story sounds contrived to me.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 06 2018, @08:31AM (4 children)
Are you advocating firing shotguns into the air around urban or suburban areas?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 06 2018, @10:21AM
Are you implying frojack is Joe Biden?
(Score: 3, Funny) by realDonaldTrump on Monday May 07 2018, @12:29AM (2 children)
In Saudi Arabia, they use machine guns. And it works very well.
(Score: 3, Funny) by arslan on Monday May 07 2018, @12:34AM (1 child)
Here in Oz, we launch drop bears!
(Score: 3, Funny) by c0lo on Monday May 07 2018, @01:18AM
FTFY. The only thing that's needed then is to place your observations points where the drop bear launch themselves and she'll be apples, mate, no longer losing situational awareness to drones.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 3, Insightful) by RandomFactor on Sunday May 06 2018, @04:04PM (4 children)
I'm not defending the the FBI's position or the article, not sure how you're pulling that out of what i wrote. I'm referring to the routine "Just blast it out of the sky." response that keeps getting thrown around and explaining to the (typically non shooters) that keep saying this, that it is a dangerous idea with the loads likely in use in that situation.
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Law enforcement will typically have buckshot, slugs, breaching rounds, or even sandbags. I wouldn't expect the situation (vaguely described) to have sandbag rounds loaded. Try googling a bit on shooting into the air, law enforcement loads etc.
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Or just ask your friendly neighborhood police officer what would happen, and happen to them, if they started popping off buckshot into the air. We can disagree on potential lethality (we do), but even just putting out some innocent bystander's eyes due to recklessly popping off at drones and a million dollar funeral might seem cheap.
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(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 06 2018, @07:52PM (1 child)
Let's say it kills 1 or 2 people when it falls back to earth. Here's what I think would happen to the officer who fired that shot.
...
Wait for it.
...
NOTHING!
Ok, maybe placed on paid
vacationsuspension for a few weeks. Oh! I'm forgetting! If one of the people killed had skin darker than a certain threshold, the cop will be the subject of several sternly-worded stories in the media about police violence against blacks.(Score: 1) by RandomFactor on Sunday May 06 2018, @11:49PM
Certainly possible depending on the situation and circumstances and department and media coverage... I'm a little less cynical about law enforcement than you seem to be, but i'm not going to argue that justice is blind or that police don't give each other slack the plebs can only dream of :-\
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(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 07 2018, @06:19PM (1 child)
"Or just ask your friendly neighborhood police officer what would happen"
lmao! when they pull me over by force of gun to rob me?
(Score: 1) by RandomFactor on Monday May 07 2018, @08:29PM
Yeah, after hearing 'Stand and deliver!' might not be the time for casual conversation :-p
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(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 06 2018, @01:43PM (2 children)
All right, all right, we won't be firing shotguns in urban areas, we will just bring some tennis rackets to swat those pesky drones...
- Your friendly G-Man
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 06 2018, @07:55PM (1 child)
How about a few HERF guns?
Oh... I've just been informed there's one problem with my proposal. HERF guns just aren't macho enough. They don't get the testosterone flowing. Instead they should use RPGs.
(Score: 1) by RandomFactor on Sunday May 06 2018, @11:55PM
HERF guns FTW. I would expect nets though.
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(Score: 5, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Sunday May 06 2018, @03:09AM
Fake - with a purpose. The FBI intends to use this made up story in testimony before congress. And, in summary, "Congress critters, we MUST get these drones under control, before our agents start losing their lives! There is no legitimate reason why a private citizen needs a high-tech drone for his personal use!"
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 05 2018, @11:35PM (1 child)
This reads like fake news to me.
Like, 'this is something that MIGHT happen, eventually, if we wait long enough, so let's just get out in front of things by publishing some fodder to the proletariat, pretending that it happened and getting the money flowing'.
Why?
Recently, traveling on Highway 101, in Northern California, I gave someone who lives in Humboldt County, a ride, via Craigslist's Rideshare board.
This person told me they had observed UAVs flying around in the darkness - large numbers of them - when they had been present in a region of Trinity County, known as Trinity Pines (which is largely populated by marijuana growers), during a raid, at another property, by the FBI, some time in the not too distant past.
(Trinity County is basically an agriculturally oriented county. Witness the name, and residents, of the nearest town - Hayfork. However, Trinity Pines is just over the county line from Humboldt County; and so there is a certain amount of bleedover, across county lines. There's also people growing hay, and running cattle, in Humboldt County - it's not all pot growers.)
I take tales told to me by anonymous travelers with a grain of salt, and so should you.
But so if the FBI *were* overwhelmed by an infusion of foreign flying objects they had not invited, it seems possible that whomever did such a thing was inspired by the FBI, itself.
Anonymous Cow Herd
(Score: 4, Insightful) by takyon on Sunday May 06 2018, @12:09AM
What was this for? A bank robbery? Why not just one or two drones to get the positions of the agents? What software or manpower did they have available to coordinate such a swarm? Why did the suspects have time to fuck around with drones instead of getting their asses away from there? Did they get apprehended?
Now that the scenario (true or not) has been put out there, we can expect it to show up in Law and Order, CSI, NCIS or some other dumb show to help brainwash the public.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Snotnose on Sunday May 06 2018, @12:28AM (4 children)
Dunno why but the fibbies seem to want to push this agenda. As others have said:
1) No time/date/location is given
2) No names are given
3) A shotgun does a pretty good job of taking out a drone.
I'll add that, hell, if I'm on a SWAT team with all sorts of bulletproof clothing and heavy gloves, if you come at me with a drone I'm gonna swat it down. Unless of course I just catch it, turn it off, and call it mine.
When the dust settled America realized it was saved by a porn star.
(Score: 1) by RandomFactor on Sunday May 06 2018, @02:11AM (1 child)
I suspect it was more about the amendment to the FAA Reauthorization bill that requires registration and broadcasting of owner information...
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(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 06 2018, @06:13AM
Easy solution to remove this requirement: arm the drone with a gun, then sic the NRA on it.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Sunday May 06 2018, @03:26AM (1 child)
I can see why #3 could be a problem. Do they really want to start shooting during a tense and volatile situation? Can they shoot the drone if it's all up in the agents' faces or whatever they are claiming?
But the lack of other details is not great.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by urza9814 on Monday May 07 2018, @05:54PM
This is an American police force, so yes, that generally seems to be *exactly* what they try to do...
(Score: 3, Touché) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Sunday May 06 2018, @12:42AM (7 children)
When one can deliver explosives with a drone instead of a suicide vest!
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Snotnose on Sunday May 06 2018, @12:58AM (3 children)
So you get 1-2 lbs of explosives on a drone. Best case you get a hand grenade. Worst case a homemade explosive with nails surrounding it. Either way it's got a relatively small radius of damage. Works nicely if you're in a crowd like a TSA line with soft targets. Works poorly if you're in a crowd of deployed SWAT teams.
Lets see, a $1000 drone with a hard to get explosive with a 10 yard radius, or a $500 car packed with boom-stuff with a 100 yard radius. Granted, it's a bitch to get the car to be controllable via your phone. On the other hand, it's easy to park the car somewhere, make a minor issue, and blow the car when the first responders show up.
Dear TLAs here in the good ol' land of the free: fuck it, knock on my door, search my house, have 20 agents kill 5 hours only to find out the worst thing I have is something in the fridge evolving to sentience. Just don't hurt my cat.
When the dust settled America realized it was saved by a porn star.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Sunday May 06 2018, @03:28AM (1 child)
It may be easier to get the drone to its intended destination. They are harder to spot, make less noise, and can't be defeated by some of the concrete barriers and spikes that can stop cars. Maybe some special software could be used to fly it very close to the ground or walls to make it harder for standing humans to notice.
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(Score: 3, Interesting) by hemocyanin on Sunday May 06 2018, @04:25AM
Most terrorism doesn't go for a specific target so some fragile Rube Goldberged drone is barely a threat compared to that posed by vans and semis jumping a curb.
(Score: 3, Funny) by Knowledge Troll on Sunday May 06 2018, @03:16PM
This is a rather damn good idea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlO2gcs1YvM#t=55s [youtube.com]
(Score: 3, Touché) by linkdude64 on Sunday May 06 2018, @09:15AM (1 child)
I thought martyrdom was part of the appeal?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 08 2018, @09:17AM
They are just suicidal brainwashed idiots looking for an easy way to end the pain or inflict misery on others. Ignore them.
(Score: 2) by Hyper on Tuesday May 08 2018, @02:56AM
Next time they will pack net launchers just for this eventuality
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 06 2018, @03:00PM
Regulations incoming in 3… 2… 1…