SoylentNews is people
SoylentNews
Lucasfilm "Licking Their Wounds" But Not Halting 'Star Wars' Development
Mild spoilers in TFA about certain characters that appear in the film.
Disney and Lucasfilm are reassessing their plans for future Star Wars movies in the wake of the disappointing performance of Solo: A Star Wars Story, which is having to fight to make much more than $350 million worldwide, sources tell The Hollywood Reporter. "They haven't slowed down development," says a source with knowledge of Lucasfilm's thinking, "but they are licking their wounds."
Lucasfilm president Kathleen Kennedy and her team are regrouping and figuring out the direction of the movies beyond the final installment of the main series of films, Star Wars: Episode IX, which is scheduled for release Dec. 20, 2019. "It doesn't mean those spinoffs don't happen," says another insider of Solo's underperformance globally. "It just means they're trying to figure out how to make, and market, them differently."
[...] "They were developing anything and everything," says another exec. "It was a case of them stuffing so much sausage and not try to break the casing."
Meanwhile, Han Solo's blaster was sold for over 0.1% of the film's gross.
Also at Collider, Space.com, and Forbes (archive).
Related: Star Wars Franchise Loses Fourth Director in Two Years
Meet the New Star Wars IX Director: J. J. Abrams
(Score: 3, Informative) by arslan on Sunday June 24 2018, @10:45PM (18 children)
I wasn't going to watch it when I first say the trailers and release date. I was originally anticipating it for a Christmas/New year date but was surprised they released it in May. The trailers didn't impress either - Alden Ehrenreich comes across as more of a sleazeball. I did eventually watch it only through word of mouth from mates that it was pretty decent, and it was.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by JoeMerchant on Sunday June 24 2018, @11:03PM (15 children)
The real Han Solo character is mostly a sleazeball, shoots first, "better her than me," (being killed) etc. but shines through as a hero when it really counts.
The insurmountable problem with Han Solo stories in the theater is that Harrison Ford a) doesn't want to do it anymore, and b) so owns the character that most people won't ever think they'll be happy with anybody else. 1976 was a LONG time ago, in a galaxy without smartphones or the internet - they had to make this move sooner or later, probably should have tried it sooner instead of waiting until they had no other option.
Of course, I'd like to see them try to produce Lucas' ideas about microbes ruling the galaxy - pull that off and I'd really be impressed, try and fail and I'll still go see at least the first one in the theater just out of respect for having the chutzpah to try.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 24 2018, @11:33PM (1 child)
Go read the Lando Calrissian and Han Solo Trilogies from the late 70s early 80s.
Those books owned both characters. And if they had licensed the rights to make movies off of them instead of badly rehashing them, they would have had a couple of epic stories that would have made the fans and non-fan moviegoers alike want to see it. Blue Max plus Bollux was a far more interesting character duo than L337 and they even had a tragic sacrifice and surprising reveal at the end to leave you feeling sad then good. And while both Calrissian and Solo were made out as thieves, ne'er do wells and smugglers, they were also shown to have a soft spot for the underdogs, blowing a sure thing when plans went awry to help out someone in need rather than getting that big score.
Really, those two trilogies set the stage for all of the post-ROTJ extended universe novels that included the characters and up until the Prequels came out really had a positive impact on the star wars world that fans came to love after the original trilogy ended.
(Score: 3, Funny) by JoeMerchant on Monday June 25 2018, @10:50AM
Now you're ignoring the 99% - movie producers who invest millions of dollars per minute of screen time NEVER ignore the 99%.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 5, Funny) by isostatic on Monday June 25 2018, @08:43AM (10 children)
The real Han Solo character is mostly a sleazeball, shoots first
I've seen the film, Greedo shoots first.
(Score: 2) by MostCynical on Monday June 25 2018, @10:24AM
Did they change the release date in the "digitally remastered" versions, or did they pretend it was always like that, and Greedo shot first?
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Monday June 25 2018, @10:52AM (8 children)
There was a DVD set of the original theatrical releases, that's the one I show my kids.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by darnkitten on Wednesday June 27 2018, @06:20PM (7 children)
Do you have the UPC or ISBN code? I'm stuck with the original trilogy on VHS...
(Score: 3, Informative) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday June 27 2018, @06:32PM (6 children)
They were last (and only) released in 2006:
http://www.syfy.com/syfywire/star-wars-original-trilogy-unaltered-dvds [syfy.com]
ALL of our physical discs (including Toy Story, Barney, etc.) have traveled to the great beyond, but our fair use backup copies live on...
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by darnkitten on Tuesday July 03 2018, @04:44PM (4 children)
Thanks--I have downloaded Harmy's Despecialized Edition, and have the requisite lucased DVD/Blu-Ray sets, but I would like to get a personal DVD copy of the theatrical release, to spare my poor old VHS copies.
I'd also like to donate the original theatrical releases to my local library (I donated my spare VHS copies, though most people can't play them anymore, and also donated the Star Trek: the original series DVD sets with the unaltered effects), so the upcoming generation will be able to see them the way they were intended.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday July 03 2018, @06:08PM (3 children)
Watching the original Star Trek series in reruns on a B&W TV set in the 1970s was very instructive, on my set at least you could see the cut-out around the Enterprise as a brighter shape than the background star field - the effect was invisible on most color TVs.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by darnkitten on Tuesday July 03 2018, @08:16PM (2 children)
Cool--I will have to watch it in B/W. Oddly, I don't believe I've ever watched ST:tos in black and white, aside from the VHS release of The Cage/Menagerie which spliced together existing color and black-and-white footage in an attempt to reconstruct the pilot.
Even though we had a (B/W) TV back in the late 70s, I don't recall Star Trek being broadcast, at least at a time I was allowed to watch--my exposure (around at age 9 or 10) was through 4 episode prints shown one time at the base matinee (instead of the usual westerns), as well as some of the Blish novelizations and a handful of photonovels I searched out at the base library after being blown away by those four episodes in the theater. I went to every matinee after that, in the vain hope they would show Star Trek again, and, disappointed, would sneak out of the theater and go to the library, leaving my little brothers to watch the movies--I've generally disliked westerns ever since.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday July 03 2018, @10:30PM (1 child)
It was on just before dinnertime at my house, really made my dad made that I wanted to watch it instead of jumping up for another plate of burgers & green beans.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by darnkitten on Tuesday July 03 2018, @11:31PM
Yeah--Star Trek vs green beans? No contest. Somehow adults just don't see the obvious.
When Next Generation happened, my mom was became a fan, so dinner was delayed anyway.
(Score: 2) by darnkitten on Tuesday July 03 2018, @04:50PM
I also should try to get the LD set the DVDs are based on, as I still have a laserdisc player.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Spamalope on Monday June 25 2018, @01:36PM
Most things about the first Star Wars were copied except the effects. (2001 proved it could be done, but Lucas did pioneer visual and sound effects)
First, Star Wars is epic fantasy set in space not sci-fi. Thus the wizards, damsel in distress etc.
Han Solo's character only works if he's a 'Romance Novel' villain. Those men are female fantasies that are somehow sociopaths or at least rogues who are transformed into worthwhile people when the female lead wins them (often they're only transformed as to that woman). His character absolutely depends on getting this right. So in the recent movies it seems we have one where the writer may have known but sought to pop that bubble instead, replacing the bodice ripper rogue with a 'see men never change and look what happens' figure before killing him once he's unsympathetic. It's a movie, he should have died in a romance novel roguish exploit so the story telling is good and to keep the fantasy element.
This recent movie seems to miss the point of the character completely. His character should make the men think he's a jerk and the women think about batting eyelashes. (bonus points if the women don't know quite why) If the women think hes a jerk and the men reject the story telling you've done it completely wrong. Either they don't understand, or do and have an ax to grind instead.
FYI, The original is just the hero's story set 'in spaaaaace'. It's the Gilgamesh/King Authur epic. Story boarding cribbed from Kurosawa's Samurai films and 'The Damn Busters'. Marcia Lucas's editing transformed the horrible mess, changed the plot and made a success out of the horrible mess of the original.
(Score: 2) by arslan on Monday June 25 2018, @10:37PM
Yes, that's why I said it was only in the trailers, after watching the movie Alden was pretty good as a young Solo. The trailers didn't really help the cause.
(Score: 2) by Sourcery42 on Monday June 25 2018, @07:02PM (1 child)
It was decent. I honestly liked this one as good as anything since the original trilogy.
My kid is into Star Wars, so I've been to all of these since Disney started grinding out 2/year. Maybe this will convince them to quit crapping out a new Star Wars flick every 6 - 9 months.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 25 2018, @09:10PM
The consensus is that it's more or less "average" as far as Star Wars movies go. But its box-office showing makes it appear sub-average. My gut feeling is that Star Wars O.D. is the biggest problem with the revenue slump, and not the movie itself. I don't think trailers make that much difference for established franchises. Word of mouth matters much more. Lack of familiar actors may also have played a role. (Stop blowing them up with death stars.) Regardless, Disney should pace itself. A Thanksgiving turkey meal every month makes Thanksgiving less "special".
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Gaaark on Sunday June 24 2018, @10:53PM (13 children)
Obviously putting out crap has caught up to them:
Kill off Han Solo, but do it in so crappy, unemotional and unmoving way...they killed him and I didn't care. In the first Star Wars, Luke's aunt and uncle die and I felt bad for Luke: they sold me on his loss, made me care.
Han Freaking Solo dies and I didn't give a fart.
Stop with 'splosions, mega hugeGigantic death stars and write a story. Make me HAVE to watch it, and not just once.
But no...put out crap and then market it to hell and try to pull the money from my wallet by...the Force? Ain't gonna work.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 1, Troll) by JoeMerchant on Sunday June 24 2018, @11:10PM (12 children)
What do you think this is, Pixar?
The Star Wars formula has always been a napkin sketch of a plot writ large across hours of special effects sequences.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 3, Touché) by Gaaark on Sunday June 24 2018, @11:43PM (10 children)
In the past, though, they had nice large napkins. You can't fit much plot on today's little drink square napkins.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Monday June 25 2018, @02:16AM (5 children)
I think, literally, plots 1-9 were sketched in a ridiculously short time. Granted: starting in the middle worked really well for the story - made it seem like more than it was, but stretching this to 2 hours takes a lot of eye and ear candy:
- Princess has plans for the big bad boom, gets captured, intro Vader the badass, droids escape to sandland
- droids wander sandland and get picked up by Jawas and sold to Luke, lead Luke to ObiWan, Sandpeople cameo
- ObiWan plants light saber Princess rescue seeds in Luke, then shrugs like he doesn't care, they head out and Luke discovers his crispy relatives
- Luke wanted to leave anyway, goes with ObiWan to a barfight/muppet fest, hires a mercenary with a walking carpet and they blast off
- More force teasers / exposition, Princess' planet goes boom, Falcon flies into the rubble then chases a scout to the big boom and gets captured
(BTW, the whole Falcon backstory hadn't been told properly until the Solo movie...)
- Extremely improbable stealth mission on the big bad ensues, prison break, Vader-ObiWan showdown, escape with space-fight sequence, Falcon tracked to rebel base
- Prep and execute huge space fight scene: fighters vs big bad, Solo doubles back from mercenary to hero, boom, Vader lost in space
- Celebration, John Williams theme over closing credits (like so many other movies of the era, Superman for one...), everyone leaves exhausted from the action and happy.
I forget the name, but the recent 3.5 release felt like a whole movie written to explain the line "many Bothans died to bring us these plans" in A New Hope...
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by cubancigar11 on Monday June 25 2018, @03:40AM (3 children)
Am I right to guess you have watched Bushes of Love one too many times?
(Score: 3, Funny) by Arik on Monday June 25 2018, @04:23AM
I'm not him, but I simply can't let that go unremarked. "Bushes of Love" and "Too Many Times" are entirely different songs.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Monday June 25 2018, @10:54AM (1 child)
Never heard of it until now...
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 3, Informative) by cubancigar11 on Monday June 25 2018, @12:42PM
Thou shalt [youtube.com].
(Score: 2) by kazzie on Monday June 25 2018, @06:50AM
Except, of course, that line was from Return of the Jedi: the Bothans fetched the plans for the second Death Star.
Regardless, a number of people have complained about the retconning of Rogue One to remove the Bothans (that were never there in the first place), which could have soured peoples attitudes towards these "a Star Wars story" films.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday June 25 2018, @07:35AM (3 children)
Don't the font size and the dpi resolution of your printer play any role into it?
(grin)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by MostCynical on Monday June 25 2018, @10:26AM (2 children)
Nah, it was written in lipstick.
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday June 25 2018, @11:10AM (1 child)
What, REDRUM?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by MostCynical on Monday June 25 2018, @11:36AM
https://www.romper.com/p/13-actors-who-almost-starred-in-star-wars-which-would-have-totally-changed-the-films-2638 [romper.com]
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 25 2018, @05:44PM
I have yet to watch a Pixar flick without crying at least a little the first time.
Except Wall-E, I just didn't get what people liked so much in that one.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by LoRdTAW on Sunday June 24 2018, @10:56PM (36 children)
The only good star wars films were the first two where Lucas didn't have 100% control of everything from script to casting. And the main reason the first two were good is the special effects which were revolutionary. The script, cast and characters were all shite and everyone knew it. But for little kids it was magical, probably why so many liked it, not for the dumb story but for the neat o space guys, laser blasters and star ships! Wow! Cooooool! I'm pretty sure most adults were like meh. I liked it as a kid, just like I liked the dark crystal. But you don't see me worshiping fictitious film stories and characters.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by takyon on Sunday June 24 2018, @11:02PM (13 children)
The main reason the first movie was good was because of the aggressive editing job that was done on the film (by people who weren't George Lucas).
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 3, Informative) by JoeMerchant on Sunday June 24 2018, @11:12PM (1 child)
A big part of why the first movie was so well received was its competition in the theaters for the previous 5 years.
A big part of why the series endured was the second movie, Empire really was an impressive sequel. It has been somewhat milking it ever since, but still an entertaining ride.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 25 2018, @02:08PM
Don't forget John Williams and the #1 ranked film score of all time.
http://www.afi.com/100years/scores.aspx [afi.com]
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 24 2018, @11:14PM (7 children)
But was called Martha Lucas and has been erased from Star Wars history. [news.com.au]
(Score: 4, Informative) by AthanasiusKircher on Monday June 25 2018, @12:48AM (6 children)
Well, she is named Marcia Lcuas [wikipedia.org], and she won the Academy Award for Best Film Editing for Star Wars, so I'd hardly say she's been "erased from Star Wars history."
But yes, her contributions have perhaps been underappreciated.
(Score: 3, Funny) by AthanasiusKircher on Monday June 25 2018, @12:49AM (4 children)
[Lucas, obviously... that's what I get for trying to make a correction.]
(Score: 2) by takyon on Monday June 25 2018, @12:57AM (3 children)
So thoroughly erased from history, nobody can get her name right.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 25 2018, @01:11AM (1 child)
For future reference, it's Martha Lcuas.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Monday June 25 2018, @05:03PM
The world has decided to forget any movie in which Martha is a significant plot contributor.
(Score: 4, Touché) by JoeMerchant on Monday June 25 2018, @02:19AM
These are not the Lucases you are looking for...
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 25 2018, @09:14PM
"Marcia Marcia Marcia!"
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Gaaark on Sunday June 24 2018, @11:45PM (1 child)
I heard one of the main editors was George's wife who he later fired after their divorce.
Then the films went to shit.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 25 2018, @02:23PM
It's when they ran out of movies to copy scene by scene from.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNdb03Hw18M [youtube.com]
(Score: 2) by Arik on Monday June 25 2018, @02:57AM
It is quite an odd situation, the man who gets official credit for the movie may well be the only person on the credits who was truly worse than useless.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Sunday June 24 2018, @11:06PM
Yes, but lovable and hugely entertaining shite which is so much better (and more marketable) than a "hard" science fiction story done well.
And, you realize that Dark Crystal, Labyrinth, Star Wars, and Sesame Street are all heavily Henson?
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 5, Insightful) by PartTimeZombie on Sunday June 24 2018, @11:27PM (20 children)
I saw the first Star Wars movie in 1977 when I was 12, with my Father, who was 58 ( I think).
We both really loved it for the amazing special effects, but I also loved the plot, simple as it was. The characters were great also, I cared about them.
I do remember my Father telling me it was really just a cowboy movie set in space (which seemed really stupid to 12-year-old me) and of course he was right.
The next two movies were also pretty cool, I enjoyed both of them, even if they did start to get a little twee. When episode one was announced, I was happy it would be more of the same adventure stuff but it turned out be just a "product" specially made to sell merch to "consumers".
That's the current state of Star Wars in my mind, it's just another (not very good) Hollywood "franchise" like all the super hero crap infesting theatres at the moment.
Being a Star Wars fan feels a little like being emotional about my local McDonalds.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Ethanol-fueled on Sunday June 24 2018, @11:37PM (5 children)
Somewhat meta: but given the poor sense of humor here this passage from the summary actually made me laugh:
And now referencing you:
The original trilogy was all a masterpiece, one of the true triumphs of American culture. But when I heard Episode I was coming out, I knew in my 17-18 years of age that it, and everything after it, was going to suck, and suck hard.
Being a true Star Wars fan is a lot like being a true Metallica fan: everything up to a certain album were masterpieces, but as regular listeners you kinda just pretended that everything after that just doesn't exist. In the case of Metallica fans, the demarcation comes after Justice, or in some cases after The Black album. The Black album was a lot like Episode I, Metallica were becoming worse and less cerebral and had nowhere else to go but down, they were now just in it because they knew they'd make money from it, but the true fans gave it a chance hoping for something better.
That "Something Better" never happened, and never will. It's too late now.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 24 2018, @11:59PM (3 children)
Lucas was going to direct Apocalypse Now but instead opted to tell a Vietnam parable set in space so we get teddy bears defeating a more powerful enemy. Star Wars captured the mood of the time with Lucas channelling Susan Sontag [wikipedia.org] and Joseph Campbell. [wikipedia.org] Campbell was subsequently to call Lucas the best student he ever had. Star Wars has it's roots in Jungian archetypes and more in common with views espoused today by the likes of Jordan Peterson rather than the social justice authoritarians producing the new movies. Fans have noticed this!
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Ethanol-fueled on Monday June 25 2018, @12:18AM (1 child)
I like Jungian archetypes: Jung espoused those things were about soul, those aspects of humanity everybody believed to be universal truths without questioning why, things they knew instinctually, and were less about pedantries and all those other bullshit so-called "higher-level abstractions" people who were high on cocaine such as Freud told us that were truths.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 25 2018, @12:48AM
Yeah, Sigmund Fraud - the pervert who only ever diagnosed himself. The worst day of my fucking life was realising that there are people who actually fit the Freudian model. Would never had thought you would have time for Jung TBH but think I can see it in a weird way. Carl Jung will probably be entirely vindicated by RNA studies [scientificamerican.com] no surprise as his insights always held instinctively true. Ha!
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Monday June 25 2018, @01:33AM
Yes, there is something to that. The revolutionary special effects, and the mood of the time probably sums up Star Wars original success. Other things that didn't hurt it were the simple plot, nice costumes, and the lack of xenophobia. (Star Wars was probably the most "inclusive" work of art for years to come, if you don't count Tolkein.)
I was happy to pay hard earned money to watch the early Star Wars. I can't be assed to watch the later works for free.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday June 26 2018, @10:31AM
Ever watch Highlander?
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Sunday June 24 2018, @11:37PM (9 children)
A big deal was made at the time about the "unknown actors/actress" taking the lead roles. They did a really good job, in part because it was such a simple and action based story - not a lot of acting nuance required from any of the characters (especially Vader and the droids.)
I found some enjoyment in the I and II movies, although the pod racing sequence was just too much for my patience. III seemed to be pure and simple obligation to explain why Vader was so evil in IV yet redeemable in VI. Practically devoid of enjoyment, III was.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Monday June 25 2018, @12:13AM (1 child)
It was the pod racing scene that made me realise Star Wars had turned into a vehicle for selling toys. Pod racers in this case.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Ethanol-fueled on Monday June 25 2018, @01:03AM
Pod racing:
Booboobooboobooboo!
Normal People like me:
Man, that's fucking retarded. Boobooboobooboo? This sounds fucking ridiculous. "Boobooooboo?" Hahahahaha! Come on, niggers.
(Score: 2) by krishnoid on Monday June 25 2018, @02:01AM
I liked the movie as a story on its own -- lots of adventure, scoundrelry, pathos. Considering box office marketing and returns, though, it didn't seem like it was suited towards younger kids, considering the themes of separation anxiety, cheating, theft, adult slavery, murder, etc. So while I found it a worthy prequel, I can see that adults, when given a choice in the current (crowded) landscape of movie choices, could have spent their precious time and money on something with more modern, family-friendly themes and better accessibility (?) to the young mind? I'm thinking more conventional romance, fights and explosions between larger-sized enemy forces, etc.
In retrospect, Solo brings more of a western flavor to mind, which seems in line considering Star Wars' drawing from WWI+ dogfights. In this regard, I can easily see mid-1900's kids having a better connection to the story style, but it may not have matched what older fans were expecting to bring their kids to see in a 'Star Wars Story'.
I suspect a sequel could pull people back in if it better matched a buddy-movie mold. For my own part, I was legit excited when I saw Chewbacca appear (spoiler :-).
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 25 2018, @08:32AM
Wait, the pod racing sequence was the break from Jar Jar Binks The Movie, and you found enjoyment *except* ffor the pod racing?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 25 2018, @10:05AM (4 children)
And they were given a chance to act and people had some taste of which shots to keep.
For example Han Solo's "I know..." to Leia's "I love you".
The good actors become specialists in their character and whether subconsciously or consciously would often go "this is what my character would say" and say it, instead of what was written... Maybe even argue with the writer or director over it.
In contrast when I first saw The Phantom Menace it seemed like many of the actors were just reading Lucas's lines for the first or second time and Lucas says "OK, CUT! That's good enough, let's go make more dresses for Amidala!". And everyone goes like "huh?".
Those actors were OK in other movies so it's not their acting ability/inability...
(Score: 2) by MostCynical on Monday June 25 2018, @10:36AM (3 children)
Most of the stuff with Ewan and Liam was done in front of empty soundstages on blue/green screen. There was literally nothing for them to see, react to, or do, other thansay the lines (which George could then use cgi to change, anyway)
They knew the plot sucked, the plot holes were so big even Amidala's headware wouldn't plug it..
Say the lines, get paid.
Then, if you think about someone saying "midichlorian" with a straight face, maybe they *were* doing a good job of acting!
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 25 2018, @11:27AM
Lots of actors act in front of green screens. So it seems doubtful that that was such a relevant issue.
(Score: 2) by Mykl on Monday June 25 2018, @11:27PM (1 child)
Andy Serkis did much of his Gollum work on empty soundstages covered in little dots and absolutely killed it. Ewan and Liam don't get a pass for that.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 28 2018, @06:54AM
I'm not convinced it's Ewan and Liam's fault. As I mentioned earlier, we might be just seeing their first or second take then Lucas goes "OK, CUT! That's good enough, let's go make more dresses for Amidala!"... Instead of "Come on you can do better than that!", let them try a few different things and go for the best ones.
(Score: 2) by LoRdTAW on Sunday June 24 2018, @11:55PM (2 children)
That's how I look at it. I remember my father saying it was alright movie with good special effects. I liked all three as a kid but to be honest, I had more fun watching spaceballs.
Anything made since is a cash grab. eps 1-3 were hot garbage. I saw the force awakens and was completely underwhelmed. It was better than 1-3 but still the same lame story. It's just a fun special effects demo. Other than that, I don't care what happens to the franchise. And to be honest, should have been left alone.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Monday June 25 2018, @12:00AM (1 child)
BarfGaaark agrees! Spaceballs rules!;)
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 25 2018, @11:05PM
Too bad we'll never see "Spaceballs 2: The Search for More Money", or "Spaceballs 3: The Search for Spaceballs 2" as someone once put it.
(honestly, I would have loved it - Brooks was the master)
(Score: 2) by donkeyhotay on Monday June 25 2018, @03:18PM
You very succinctly mirrored my thoughts there. Someone recently asked me if I had seen Solo and I said no, and that I had not seen the last three movies. I think it comes down to people who just want to see a "show" opposed to people like myself who want to see an interesting story.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 24 2018, @11:01PM (12 children)
It's dead [dailytelegraph.com.au] and nobody cares about Disney Soy Wars. See also the Ghostbusters remake, Oceans 11 or any of the god awful, Social Justice pandering, shit-sandwiches Hollywood is now serving. There's some fan theory that the original Soylo directors were fired because they modelled the social justice droid as a parody of Lucasfilm head Kathleen Kennedy. That version may have been worth a watch.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 24 2018, @11:14PM
Wow. That was a scathingly accurate account of the Star Wars new movies.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 24 2018, @11:57PM (1 child)
I'm beginning to wonder if this is actually some kind of long con meant to turn the public against the idea of equality for women.
For many women in the working class, it seems to be successful. They dream of being housewives. (I can give citation if needed. Beware. It's depressing.)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 25 2018, @12:31AM
Wondered that myself but no, I don't think the people pushing it are that smart. It's all cringey superficiality and frequently the abusive males turn out to be the self-styled male feminists. [gq-magazine.co.uk] The flip side is the mgtow thing where men are not taking risks and outright refusing to provide resources for women. I think very few men would be interested in a woman who just wants to be a housewife. Ultimately it's probably just feminism finding it's level, running up against reality and setting realistic expectations.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 25 2018, @12:00AM
Wow! You really need to but some antiseptic on the Red Pillar, something like iodine, Mercuricrom, or Isoprolpyl alcholol, lest it rot and fall off.
(Score: 2) by LoRdTAW on Monday June 25 2018, @12:10AM (4 children)
Or jesus fucking christ that god damn mad max piece of shit. You actually had fucking sjw retards parroting articles written about how ms max* had a prosthetic arm, a handicap, and it didn't slow her down! "Oh bravo hollywood for showing a positive handy capable role!" Never mind that it was played by a non-handicap person who's arm is very much intact IRL. Fuck these people need to be abandoned in the middle of the ocean at night time.
*I still dont get why the woman wasnt mad maxine or some shit, why was max even needed? coulda saved that tom hardy money and just paid ms theron to be mad maxine. I couldnt understand why there were two characters, one the movie is named after who might as well not have been in the damn film. Then the stupid desert grannies. What the fuck were they eating and drinking? people and their blood I suppose. but youd' think if the water dried up they have fucked off. and before that the build up to the part where hes gonna take out that guy in the swamp area only to cut to him driving back in victory. All that build up and fuck you no cool fight scene for the last guy. just a jump cut. the writers had to really go in for a streach to justify a turn around and give us another hour long cgi fuck fest. terrible plot and goofy duality of the main characters. fuck that film. thunderdome made more sense and tina turner was a better villain.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 25 2018, @03:54AM
The movie had cool special effects and cinematography was mind blowing. There was no real story. I saw it being supremely high and it almost gave me a boner. 10/10 will watch again. PS: I hated the SJW crap in it and ignored the story completely. What's left is still 99.99% of the movie.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 25 2018, @09:46AM (2 children)
Please, while it may be overrated, for years or possibly even decades there will be young ones (or once young) who will scream "Witness Me!" before they attempt something potentially suicidally Stupid+Awesome (application of edible chrome spray optional but encouraged if there's a high chance of failure). See: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=witness+me%21 [youtube.com]
That's the legacy of that Mad Max movie, even if it doesn't actually "Ride Eternal, Shiny and Chrome. " ;).
The original Star Wars series has added much: "Use the Force", "I find your lack of faith disturbing", Imperial March theme, etc.
The Last Jedi and similar? Crap that add nothing maybe only remembered as negative examples. Not even so bad that it's good.
MEDIOCRE crap, MEDIOCRE!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Fbry0X7OmM [youtube.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 25 2018, @11:17AM (1 child)
They added this very useful one: http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/its-a-trap [knowyourmeme.com]
And there's also: “Fear is the path to the dark side…fear leads to anger…anger leads to hate…hate leads to suffering.”
(Score: 2) by kazzie on Monday June 25 2018, @07:33PM
Look again: GP said that "The Last Jedi" added nothing, not "Return of the Jedi".
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Spamalope on Monday June 25 2018, @01:54PM (1 child)
When you change the formula from a blended fantasy hero's journey (for the guys) and romance novel (for the ladies) to a SJW fantasy you should know exactly why it's not well received. Take away the special effects budget and the franchise name and who goes to see it? (tell a great story first, THEN add those things and you've got something)
Who thought having women as leaders, then writing the character to behave without demonstrating leadership? Whoever decided on that should be forced to write a report on the leadership styles of 10 successful female leaders and how their story failed to embody those things. And a second report about the differences between those styles and successful male leader styles. The fantasy story should be an idealized version of those things - and especially never violate them unless you're telling a downfall story. You may want to include some male leader cues to help sell the character for men, but you shouldn't need to unless you're putting the female leader into a traditionally male role (and you may find those things are really 'leading in that role' things anyway). You should know the damn difference so you're not just flailing about with the script though, dammit!
(Score: 2) by crafoo on Monday June 25 2018, @09:36PM
You must seriously and thoughtfully consider the people that write these scripts and their environment. Leadership for them is an abstract and nebulous concept. Leadership in their working environment means, whoever has the most money and social connections. Who frequently enforce a fuck-for-screentime unwritten hierarchy. People who consider lying about their past, current engagements and associations as normal and expected to "get the gig". People who are judged first on appearance and how they present themselves, then on their money and connections, and these are deemed their most vital qualities as a human. This is the environment these writers live in. Of course they do not know what leadership is.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 25 2018, @09:33PM
The changes reflect the audience. People do express their feelings more these days, for good or bad, and directors are going to cater to their audience for obvious reasons.
If you want the 70's audience back, invent a damn Delorean and switch it to "get off my lawn" mode. And, I thought Rose's feisty character was lots of fun. I hope she gets a chance to beat the crap out of Jar Jar in a case of mistaken identity, and then make amends to him at the hospital.
(Score: 2) by realDonaldTrump on Sunday June 24 2018, @11:20PM (7 children)
They had Donald Glover. And Playboy had an interesting article, they said if Donald played Han the movie wouldn't be such a flop. But, turned down by the Editors with NO EXPLANATION!!! playboy.com/read/donald-glover-han-solo-star-wars [playboy.com]
(Score: 3, Funny) by pipedwho on Sunday June 24 2018, @11:31PM (2 children)
Wow, turns out it's true that some people really do just read Playboy for the articles. I'm on the fence on whether or not I need to clear my browser history now.
(Score: 2, Troll) by realDonaldTrump on Monday June 25 2018, @12:48AM
Playboy is very special to me because I was great friends with Hugh (RIP!!!) and I starred in some of their productions. Playboy Video Centerfold 2000, a few others. I kept my clothes on, the girls took them off. And I try to keep up with the articles about me, so many are VERY NEGATIVE, hopefully they'll fix that. I noticed this article because it says "Donald."
(Score: 2) by isostatic on Monday June 25 2018, @08:28AM
You could lynx it if you only want the articles, (grab via curl for added protection), but there's still going to be traces in any DNS or https caches. Best to create a burner VM with bitcoin.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Ethanol-fueled on Sunday June 24 2018, @11:50PM (3 children)
How is Playboy these days? Back when I was a kid I remember improvising stepstools to get the the top shelf of my parents' closet (while they were gone) to look at nudies, but Playboy (and Penthouse) were the only magazines in which the articles were more entertaining than the models themselves. There was an article in Penthouse I remember fondly, one which described the various currencies and their uses in ToS, TNG, and DS9 and the gimmick of the article was to describe the use of currencies (Gold-pressed Latinum, for example) in post-money societies.
(Score: 1) by Ethanol-fueled on Sunday June 24 2018, @11:51PM
Lame self-reply, I know...but they called those currencies "Deep-Space Dough."
(Score: 3, Informative) by realDonaldTrump on Monday June 25 2018, @01:11AM
They used to have it PERFECTO. In the early 1950s. And they had stories, they had Science Fiction stories and so much more. Very funny jokes and cartoons. But they've changed it so much, they even took away the nudes for a little while!! If you can believe that. And they have so much NEGATIVE COVERAGE about me. They know my name brings the crowds. But they don't know that I'm very popular. Science Fiction movie came out last month, based on a story they ran in the 50s. They decided to put terrible (Fake) things about me into the review. Trying to cash in on my good name and on how great the USED TO be. Sad! playboy.com/read/fahrenheit-451-hbo-playboy-legacy [playboy.com]
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday June 26 2018, @10:33AM
From "The Aviator":
We don't concern ourselves with money here.
That's because you have it.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Monday June 25 2018, @01:47AM (6 children)
There is something of a common denominator running through the entertainment industry. Talent seems to come out of nowhere. Some unknown writes a helluva good story, which the deep pocket big shots seem to never see. Despite that blindness, some lesser moneyed people appreciate the art, and push to get it published, and distributed. Those deep pockets see some profit, so they take over, and run it into the ground. It's nothing new, that's the way "entertainment" works. Go back several years, and Tolkien was pretty much unknown. I stumbled over him when I had to read a short excerpt from the Hobbit in a school book exercise. I mean, really, how much more obscure can you get, than to be included in a school text?
Meanwhile, the dorky, nerdy fans of Tolkien were busy doing their thing, reading the books, and playing games based on and/or similar to Middle Earth. The books grew in popularity, the games grew in popularity, until some critical stage was reached, and the deep pockets realized there might be money to be made.
Today, who hasn't got tired of Hollyweird's attempts to capitalize on The Rings, Mordor, and Gandalf?
The industry has no real talent. Talent is out here, in the world.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Arik on Monday June 25 2018, @02:10AM (3 children)
So you get sequels, you get book adaptions, you get endless rehashes of things that sold well previously. When was the last time you saw anything at all original though?
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 25 2018, @09:27AM
Well original doesn't necessarily mean good or non-derivative. In every case it has to be better than the constant remakes, reboots and sequels that only cheapen the source material. That line from The Last Jedi, "destroy the past" sums it all up, there's no other option when hacks in the industry cannot compete with what went before.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 25 2018, @03:30PM
Sounds like the space industry.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 25 2018, @04:51PM
I hear it all the time (about computer games, books, movies, and everything), and it never ceases to annoy me. I have two counterpoints to make in response.
1) There is tons of new stuff all the time. For me, Hacksaw Ridge [wikipedia.org] was the latest new original thing I had seen (the 3rd most recent movie I've seen... I don't watch too many movies). It was a war movie about a pacifist, and that pacifist was pilloried and demonized throughout the story. There are TONS of new concepts all the time. You only ignore them because of the big-budget advertisements of the sequels and remakes. That's on you, though, not the industry as a whole.
2) People don't want new things. Case in point, look at the popularity of any police procedural TV series (CSI, Law and Order, etc), at Andy Warhol's art, and at video game sequels. When's the last time you bought something completely blind? There is something to be said for saying "I'm going to give you ____," and then executing to that. Moreover, people like watching the formula, and then seeing permutations to it. 99% of romance books are "girl meets boy, they argue, eventually they get together in the end." There's nothing wrong with that, as long as there is variety... which leads to #1 above.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 25 2018, @09:55AM
http://www.openculture.com/2016/09/frank-zappa-explains-the-decline-of-the-music-business-1987.html [openculture.com]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=KZazEM8cgt0 [youtube.com]
See also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wo2KB1dEDdk [youtube.com]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53hMYw8LX60 [youtube.com]
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday June 26 2018, @10:37AM
You just described the medical device industry, and probably many others too.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by chewbacon on Monday June 25 2018, @12:58PM (2 children)
I enjoyed it. Liked the young Lando. Best part about it? First Star Wars movie I got to see with my son and, afterwards, he had lots of questions which lead to a drive home with lots of discussion about the saga. We watched episode 4 the next day. And that’s what I’ve been hoping for with Star Wars becoming relevant again, becoming sort of an authority on the saga with new fans. “Yeah, that movie was cool, but here’s something also cool from back in the day...”
Even if they could make the films over again with the same glory as the originals from 30+ years ago, they’d strike old fans differently simply because they are living different lives now. It’ll never be the same, get over it and stop campaigning against the saga.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by coolgopher on Monday June 25 2018, @02:04PM
Smells like an astroturf from Chewbacca's cousin ;)
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday June 26 2018, @10:39AM
God help us if it's ever the same, with major competition in the theater being "Smokey and the Bandit" - three network channels on the rabbit ear TV at home, no internet - not even dial up BBSs yet. As kids we used to go outside because it was just too boring in the house.
🌻🌻 [google.com]