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For most of us, it’s hard to imagine life without the internet.
For better or worse, we’ve become hyper-dependent on the digital universe housed in our screens. We use it on a daily basis to communicate with friends, book flights, shop, skim the news, watch movies and television shows, and stay up-to-date on Kim Kardashian’s derrière.
As access to the internet has improved in the past two decades, the offline population has steeply declined: today, only 11% of Americans don’t use the internet, down from 48% in 2000.
[...] The stories here represent only a small sample of Americans who don’t use the internet, and the reasons why.
Data tells us that the majority of non-users are elderly, but this shouldn’t endorse the trope that old people are technologically challenged. There is certainly no dearth of octogenarian techies, like my grandfather, who was the first in line to buy a PalmPilot in 1997 and has been at least 3 steps ahead of me on the gadget front ever since.
In fact, 51% of of 65+ citizens have broadband internet at home, and 34% are active on social media. In case you need an uplifting anecdotal addition to this, two of the world’s oldest men — Walter Breuning (114), and Alexander Imich (111) — were reportedly frequent and adept internet users until they died.
And though some of the rationales the folks we interviewed seem a bit like stubborn rants, they do have merit: the internet has negatively effects on face-to-face communication, creativity, attention span, social anxiety, and depression — and in light of recent scandals like Cambridge Analytica, data and privacy concerns are certainly valid.
Source: https://thehustle.co/meet-the-11-of-americans-who-dont-use-the-internet/
(Score: 3, Interesting) by suburbanitemediocrity on Wednesday July 25 2018, @01:31AM (16 children)
Save $1k/year. Nothing new, no interest in gaming or streaming movies. I use it mostly to waste time anyway and could put it toward something more productive. I can get news or the few times I need something from my neighbor, not that I would call most of news, news.
And I dl'd kiwix and have wikipedia running locally on my home network which is by far my #1 use of the internet.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Wednesday July 25 2018, @01:41AM
Wew. Bye.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 25 2018, @01:44AM (3 children)
I hear you, and I have had similar thoughts about cutting this crap out of my life. I lived over 40 years without it, and I don't need it to have a good life now.
Most of the "news" is propaganda. Whether the source is the BBC or NPR or Fox, the slant is painfully obvious and an intelligent consumer of this "news" should find
the slant insulting ; whether the slant favors a liberal or conservative agenda is immaterial : it's ALL slanted bullshit.
The internet can be useful but the way most people use it, it is a huge time sink ( waste of time ). No one is going to lie in a hospital bed as death closes in and
say "Sure glad I used Facebook so much ...".
(Score: 4, Insightful) by takyon on Wednesday July 25 2018, @02:07AM (2 children)
That's a typical edgy exaggeration. Almost all news sources will have some biased or false information, but you should be able to spot it.
Where's the issue with these articles?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-44934992 [bbc.com]
https://www.npr.org/2018/07/24/631945121/sec-settles-fraud-charges-against-fyre-festival-founder [npr.org]
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/07/24/judge-orders-release-illegal-immigrant-detained-by-ice-during-pizza-delivery-at-military-base.html [foxnews.com]
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 3, Touché) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday July 25 2018, @05:54PM
1 degree of slant and your beer stays on the table.
Fox "News," on the other hand, puts that fucker in orbit.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 25 2018, @09:09PM
― Henry David Thoreau, Walden
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday July 25 2018, @01:46AM (7 children)
I use it mostly to waste time anyway and could put it toward something more productive.
Try some "maker" content before dropping the internet all together. E.g. "How to build a shed" or "How to build a cheap CNC mill" or the like.
I never manage to consume my "Internet quota" I'm paying for.
The only reason I'm paying more expensive plan is the bandwidth (used in the proper meaning of the term as opposed to the "total amount of traffic").
I consider this an investment in the protection of my time: when I need something from the internet, I don't wait on the whole damn'd thing to buffer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 4, Informative) by suburbanitemediocrity on Wednesday July 25 2018, @02:00AM (6 children)
Yes, instructional stuff is what I mostly use the internet for now and learned much for when I built my house. I've already built my own cnc mill (and lathe) and have a whole machine shop full of tools. Thank you Kieth Rucker and vintagemachinery.org. I learned plumbing, electrical work, carpentry, woodworking and cooking. After a while there is not that much to learn.
(Score: 2) by archfeld on Wednesday July 25 2018, @03:25AM (3 children)
If you are into survival can I suggest gunsmithing, making black powder, home forging, animal husbandry, and farming techniques. That way you can be self sufficient if you need to be. Otherwise you are quite the renascence man. The only gaps I see is dental and surgical needs, but those are really hard to self apply and require extensive hands on training.
For the NSA : Explosives, guns, assassination, conspiracy, primers, detonators, initiators, main charge, nuclear charge
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 25 2018, @03:37AM (1 child)
One of my friends is a livestock and equine veterinarian in a county seat. We were chatting one day about how I would probably be toast in a survival situation, as my skills are pretty much useless and I've become too much of a city slicker. Then I said it was probably the same for him, as he hasn't actively farmed in almost two decades. He laughed and said if everything hit the fan, he'd be just fine as every farmer with animals already has him on speed dial. He already takes some payments in barter, so all that it would mean is that he'd get busier (as more animals would be needed, take more in barter (as money would be less valuable), and less paperwork (bye bye IRS).
(Score: 2) by archfeld on Wednesday July 25 2018, @04:01AM
He will be living like a king. Of course he'll need an alternative method of contact :) My GF is a diabetic and we've both had to come to grips with the fact that she has a low survival rating without a steady supply of insulin. I am a computer nerd by profession, but I gunsmith on the side and can make my own black powder, and reloads so I have marginal skills at best.
For the NSA : Explosives, guns, assassination, conspiracy, primers, detonators, initiators, main charge, nuclear charge
(Score: 2) by suburbanitemediocrity on Wednesday July 25 2018, @09:14PM
Yeah, not really interested in that stuff. When the zombie hordes come, I'll be one of the first to have his brain sucked out.
OTOH, I know how to make it all work :) I just wanted to see what I could accomplish with almost no money and a lot of free time. An amazing amount really.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday July 25 2018, @04:01AM (1 child)
Learn the basics? No.
Learn about how to solve a particular narrow problem or improve on solutions (a la stackexchange style in IT, but for other domains)? I'm almost sure there is a big chance of improving what you know/practice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by suburbanitemediocrity on Wednesday July 25 2018, @09:17PM
Old enough where I don't have many itches left to scratch.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 25 2018, @01:52AM (2 children)
If you get rid of Internet You won't get rid of morons. In recent years the Net becomes worse and worse* and I was thinking about dumping it too. However, if you have this, at least you know what to expect from this, let's say it, using memetic sciences for propaganda in a scale which most XX century empires never dreamed of. You will at least be warned.
*And it's not about pornography, terrorism or other "bad" content, it's because people just like to be enslaved and really want someone with a whip above them - that's why they favored mass publishers with fixed and malicious licenses on their creations over a "federated" ecosystems.
(Score: 3, Funny) by suburbanitemediocrity on Wednesday July 25 2018, @02:04AM (1 child)
It's surprising how much you can pick up through casual contact
(Score: 2) by archfeld on Wednesday July 25 2018, @04:03AM
There are many means of protection for those casual contact pickups :)
For the NSA : Explosives, guns, assassination, conspiracy, primers, detonators, initiators, main charge, nuclear charge
(Score: 2, Funny) by Coward, Anonymous on Wednesday July 25 2018, @01:37AM (2 children)
the internet uses you!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 25 2018, @02:44AM (1 child)
We know, we know. We're just waiting on the official announcement and accompanying denials.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 25 2018, @03:01AM
Netcraft confirms. The internet is dying.
(Score: 4, Funny) by PartTimeZombie on Wednesday July 25 2018, @02:09AM (3 children)
I have a Brother-in-Law who has no Internet access.
In his case it's because of a combination of
1: No money
2: Too stupid to learn.
The really funny thing is that he's a huge pornography fan, and still buys it in various offline forms.
He is also a massive conspiracy theory nut and would no doubt have a ball discussing lizard people and the hollow earth with whatever fellow-travellers he could find online.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 25 2018, @02:47AM (1 child)
Obviously you mean between his, um, critiquing of online porn.
(Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Wednesday July 25 2018, @03:50AM
Well, yes of course. first things first and all that.
(Score: 2) by istartedi on Wednesday July 25 2018, @11:26PM
Well, that's what happens when you marry into a zombie family and start working for them.
Appended to the end of comments you post. Max: 120 chars.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 25 2018, @02:11AM (4 children)
The elites want us off the internet. Everybody off the internet! If people were on the internet, they might also take the opportunity to at least become somewhat educated, (oblig) though not many do. However, the few that do are then able to use their social networks to allow a conversation about, for example, whether or not to defy their union's shutdown order and continue a strike.
That's the real danger: more smart people will have access to, if not education, but at least the collected works of humanity going all the way back to the first empires. That runs more of a risk of a smart extrovert [writer is introvert and thus disqualified], in small ways, providing the working class with catalysts to transform them into a revolutionary class.
"Oh, and! Caution!" to paraphrase. "Questionable scientific 'studies' churned out in a 'bring in funding or perish environment' probably mix up causation completely, but we really want you to believe that using the internet causes anxiety and is not an effect of generalized anxiety."
It's a nice way to attempt to scapegoat the generalized anxiety that pervades the working class currently on to the abilities to organize with peers efficiently and peruse a vast, global library.
Note: they try many things to achieve one goal. If one fails, such as ending net neutrality and using ISP censorship as an end-run-around to the First Amendment, they will also be trying a propaganda angle (here), also twisting social network providers' arms to bury "fake news," and there are likely other angles out there as well.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Wednesday July 25 2018, @02:45AM (1 child)
Yup.
Omageerdd the news is all fake propaganda!!!11 I can't take it anymore!!!!
And if you think you are spending too much for bandwidth/cap you don't use because omagerd, all Hollywood/streaming video is boring/derivative, just wire $20 of Ethereum to the xfinity anon so he can teach you the secrets for how to steal free internetz.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 25 2018, @02:58AM
Naah, I get all my free internetz tips from AC here on Soylent.
I'm certain I have no reason to question his credibility....
(Score: 2) by fritsd on Wednesday July 25 2018, @10:57AM
Peruse it while it lasts:
https://www.gutenberg.org/catalog/ [gutenberg.org]
Help construct this vast, global library:
https://www.pgdp.net/c/ [pgdp.net]
(approx 100 years out of date)
(Score: 2) by VLM on Wednesday July 25 2018, @01:21PM
The most likely one is an innocuous looking flood strategy.
The old saying about weak minds talk about people, stronger ones about ideas or WTF (there's many variations on this theme through philosophical history).
All they need to do is flood the proles with meaningless people news (social media twitter FB?) and the proles will be too busy digesting what Justin Beiber tweeted today to bother thinking about workers of the world unite or whatever. Social media is the modern opiate of the masses...
And of course it extends upwards to relatively more trivial topics. Socialized medicine would affect roughly 100% of working age adults so lets get the proles all riled up about 5% of the population getting gay married or 0.5% of the population having or not having various trannie rights. Just as long as they don't think about 100% of the population being subject to a shitty medical industry or shitty post-1965 immigration policy or shitty federal reserve policy etc etc.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Wednesday July 25 2018, @02:25AM (9 children)
So for the people that resist the propaganda, I salute you!
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday July 25 2018, @02:45AM (1 child)
Not sure if I fixed that or not.
(Score: 2, Funny) by khallow on Wednesday July 25 2018, @03:59AM
I listened at the door. There are still people. The fix didn't work.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 25 2018, @02:46AM (5 children)
While trying to be semi amusing I think you seriously underestimate how much you need the internet these days to work. Even your dumb as a box of bricks jobs you have to fill out junk on the net. Want to get an apartment? Internet. Want to get a job? Internet. Do not want to spend 3 years waiting in line downtown to get your benefits? Internet. Pretty much all modern information is now internet connected. How do I know this? Because I know an illiterate fellow. He has trouble getting a job because he can not just drop by and say 'hey I will wash dishes' and they put him on the line. They say 'here is an internet link to fill out the application'. Then once he gets the job? All of his hours are posted online. Our world is a connected one. Most people have missed it.
(Score: 1, Troll) by Pino P on Wednesday July 25 2018, @03:19AM
Which of the above cannot be done on an Internet terminal at the nearest branch of your county library?
(Score: 2) by Arik on Wednesday July 25 2018, @03:53AM (2 children)
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 3, Informative) by VLM on Wednesday July 25 2018, @01:14PM
In addition to your suggested reasons, its also a weird mix of cost cutting via outsourcing HR tasks, combined with weird legal requirements for social engineering like racist affirmative action programs and stuff like that. Its cheaper and legally cleaner to have some other company front end your hiring process, make sure all applicants are filed with the EEOC or whatever, run the background credit and drug checks for you, etc. The end of completely local hiring for all but the smallest companies is one of the largest changes over the last 20 years.
(Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Thursday July 26 2018, @01:28AM
That's why I just added - but have yet to populate - Fast Food and Cafe sections to Soggy Jobs.
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 25 2018, @02:11PM
Pretty much none of which should be true, especially if you need to use proprietary software (which can include JavaScript) to do any of that. What an injustice.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 25 2018, @02:49AM
Says someone on the internet ...
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 25 2018, @02:38AM (2 children)
If it werent for the internet I would have never heard of these awesome terms.
(Score: 2) by realDonaldTrump on Wednesday July 25 2018, @03:58AM
The Failing and Corrupt @nytimes [twitter.com] got one thing right. I didn't say "bigly." But maybe I'll start. It's a magnificent word.
I'll be in Tampa next Tuesday, July 31. And I'd be honored if you'll come to my rally. There is nobody like Florida people! donaldjtrump.com/rallies/tampa-fl-2018 [donaldjtrump.com]
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 25 2018, @11:53AM
Even disregarding Trump's New York accent, the rules for the aspirated h are far more varied in both speech and spelling then you'd think. The best documented inconsistency with prescribed rules is how one is spelling "an hotel" while saying "an otel" while the guy next to you would spell "a hotel" while saying "an hotel": https://jakubmarian.com/list-of-words-with-a-silent-h-in-english/ [jakubmarian.com]
If I had to guess, there was a north / south divide in the US over the French and British accent and influences that had different regions end up with different rules while New York had all that mixed together with some other accents as port cities often do. But even just in Britain, the southern aristocracy would aspirate their Hs as much as the northerners right up until the BBC started spreading the "Queen's English". Oh, and I think we can all agree the Scots and Irish aren't speaking English at all.
(Score: 4, Funny) by archfeld on Wednesday July 25 2018, @03:29AM
I tried to friend some of those guys but they didn't respond to my requests...
For the NSA : Explosives, guns, assassination, conspiracy, primers, detonators, initiators, main charge, nuclear charge
(Score: 5, Interesting) by Hartree on Wednesday July 25 2018, @03:57AM (2 children)
I've been using networked computing since the late 70s (Plato and BBS) and on the internet since the mid 80s. I have to use it for work, and it's massively more effective for conducting business/commerce than envelope and stamps/brick and mortar stores alone.
That said, when I bought a second home out in the country (fixing it up to move there at some point), I made the rule, no net connectivity. I'll still have a simple Tracphone flip phone, but other than that, no cable, no hard line phone, etc.
I'll still have the net for work and I can go somewhere with connectivity if I really need it, but as time has gone on, I've come to view the net as a massive time sink that really doesn't give me nearly the pleasure that it used to. And yet, I freely admit that I'm a net addict. If I don't reign myself in, I'll keep going through endless links on Wikipedia, imdb, youtube, etc, etc. And yes, there's some wonderful stuff on the net, but as Theodore Sturgeon pointed out, 90% of everything is crud. And being available 24/7 is much more a pain in the butt than it is a help.
I have dead tree books, my workshop and face to face visits with friends that are in many ways more rewarding. (And yet, here I am posting on Soylent, while I'm bitching about it. Yay for hypocrisy. :) )
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 25 2018, @12:53PM (1 child)
you have money for a second home.
if I had that kind of money, I wouldn't need the internet at home either.
(Score: 2) by Hartree on Wednesday July 25 2018, @05:01PM
Yes, I do have a second home (Sorta. The house is not habitable at the moment.), but it's due to a lot of sweat equity and living in a low cost of living rural area. I make about 45K a year (that's a matter of public record since I'm a state employee) and I'm single, so yes, I'm a lot better off than many and I have no complaints. But that's hardly putting me into the wealthy category by US standards.
The current plan is to inexpensively fix up the original house (by doing most of the work myself over years) and sell it to get some more savings for retirement. The state I live in, Illinois, has the worst funded public pension in the nation and it either goes broke, or the benefits will be massively cut before I can retire (I may still be having to work when I'm 80.)
(Score: 2) by edIII on Wednesday July 25 2018, @05:40AM
I don't use the Internet, or I heavily use it. Depends on your point of view I guess. They seemed to group those "valid arguments" in with not using the Internet.
Most of what I do is characterized as "going dark", almost none of what I do contributes to the bottom line of most shareholders. I don't leak data as if I was gleefully pissing it away for any marketer to golden shower with. They can't have my pee :)
Likewise, I don't spend much time, if anything, at the typical sites, and Social media is a disease. This website is about the only place I go. Everything else is technical or academic in nature, or streaming video. Ohhh, and shitloads of porn. I'm sure we all agree that is like the background noise we don't count.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by mendax on Wednesday July 25 2018, @07:27AM (1 child)
Let's not forget the roughly 1% of the US population that is incarcerated [prisonpolicy.org]. That's about 10% of that 11% of the population without Internet right there. These people don't have Internet access, unless you want to count whatever unknown number of inmates who have smart phones that have been smuggled in by the guards.
It's really quite a simple choice: Life, Death, or Los Angeles.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by VLM on Wednesday July 25 2018, @01:00PM
And 14% of the USA population is defined as "elderly" by ... someone. I guess that means over 65 although that seems to be changing over time.
I have a MiL and a UiL (uncle in law) both without internet access and they never use the net. My mom only uses the internet at the library, for decades she's been VERY confused about my jobs, hobbies, clients, leisure activities. Its quite a generation gap.
My mom is just not into "internet culture" she's more a craft-woman with many crafty hobbies and something like SN but for scrapbooking or quilt making would really not appeal to her. On the business side she's just old person standard, doing her bills and paperwork like its 1990. She likes collecting DVDs and talks about case art the way vinyl record people talk about LP art, in that its very important to them and the general population is very WTF. But, apparently, the original x-files season dvd sets were the pinnacle of 90s art albeit very abstract and dark compared to the harry potter directors cut DVD case from the 00s or whatever mom as long as you're having fun.
My MiL has very bad vision, there are screen readers and she has a kindle with the font size turned up to about 3/4 of an inch, but for her the net and its culture isn't her thing.
My UiL is in a lite-nursing home and basically watches early boomer TV 16 hours per day. People who don't have education or intellectual hobbies when they're young are not going to magically get it when they're old and slow, so, hello day time TV...
There are weird side effects. They actually believe the propaganda on the news and simply mirror behavior/beliefs off extensive observation. So that is weird, both their beliefs are weird because they're outright propaganda AND their priorities are weird. For example my MiL was very interested in some very small boat that sank because the TV told her it was fascinating and she's supposed to be very interested and she was supposed to be very sad and anxious about it; she was offended by my suggestion she not watch fake news. The blue pilling of elderly is amazing, younger people will bend the knee knowing its all a fake ruse but elderly actually believe stuff like that, which is kinda weird. They're also into religion pretty hard core.
My wife has power of attorney over my semi senile UiL but that dudes life is a total blast from a gen-x youth, he gets like ten paper bills per month to pay with handwritten paper checks and stamps are expensive for all those envelopes. Its been ten, twenty years since I paid an electric bill with old fashioned paper check in an old fashioned envelope and postal mail, but for my UiL his bill paying process is like paying bills in 1990. Being old he goes to the doctor a lot and takes plenty of pills, and those side effects are probably what is messing him up, and every time he talks to a dr there's like five old fashioned paper mails received by my wife for billing and insurance in the process of collecting money.
I have another weird observation... boomers and older compulsively have a process and procedure for reconciling their checkbook paper register and monthly statement, roughly gen-x and younger don't use paper registers and don't reconcile. Once I got online bank access around or before the turn of the century I stopped that and kinda spot-reconcile every time i write an old fashioned legacy paper check (maybe, I donno, ten a year at most?), but older people can't break the habit. Another possibly related oddity is nothing is more boomer than paper checks at retail stores. I'm not sure I've ever paid with a paper check, or not since the late 80s or early 90s at least. Cash or CC, always. But boomers will write like 15 checks per month at the food store just to drop in and buy a loaf of bread, leading to paperwork chaos, WTF old people? Boomers also barely tolerate answering machines, refuse to call cell phones (because its so expensive, LOL) and rarely if ever use an ATM to get cash. They'll spend like $45 ordering custom printed paper checks with puppies and flowers on them, use them all up in like two months going to the grocery store every day, then lecture me on how I'm throwing my money away on ATM fees just like the TV news said when I visit to the no-fee ATM at my credit union drive-thru while driving them around for errands. And then they'll spend half a day trying to reconcile a stack of paper checks per month.
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 25 2018, @11:19AM
... of people who don't use the Internet.
They use Facebook, Snapchat, Twitter and/or Instagram instead.
(Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Thursday July 26 2018, @01:24AM
-s of my writing.
Some people just don't want computers to be part of their lives.
I ride public transit and so often chat with strangers. From time to time I'll come across someone who doesn't use computers, so I suggest they get free lessons at the library. Every Last One replies that they don't want anything to do with computers.
That includes a Sheriff's Deputy who has a computer on his desk at the County Jail - but has no computers in his home.
No one is going to continue using my code after I'm gone, but lots of people will still benefit from my writing. For that reason I emailed my extended family then requested they ensure that my writing stay online were I to perish or be incapacitated. My brother-in-law said he'd take care of it - he's into computers too.
But the Internet is fragile: it would be destroyed by even a very limited nuclear war, a comet strike or the eruption of a supervolcano.
However, paper can last for thousands of years.
For that reason I'm working on a print edition of Living with Schizoaffective Disorder [warplife.com] that I'll self publish through Lulu [lulu.com]. When I get the cash I'll also get a limited print one with acid-free archival paper, then donate them to University libraries.
Maybe hemp paper - that the Constitution and the Declaration Of Independence will last forever is in part due to their being printed on hemp.
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 1) by oldmac31310 on Thursday July 26 2018, @02:03PM (1 child)
I have to say, most of you people are borderline insane.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Thursday July 26 2018, @04:47PM
You want to elaborate on that before you turn off the internet?
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]