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Millions could lose cheap phone service under FCC's overhaul of Lifeline
Federal Communications Commission Chairman Ajit Pai, appointed to the post by President Donald Trump, wants to remove a majority of wireless providers that participate in the Lifeline program in an attempt to eliminate "waste, fraud, and abuse." If such a move were made, the "chaos would be magnificent," said David Dorwart, the chairman of the National Lifeline Association (NaLA), a trade organization that represents Lifeline businesses.
Roughly 10.7 million Americans receive text, voice, and data under the program, and 70 percent would have to look for a new service provider under the proposal, according to NaLA, if an affordable option is even available. The program cost about $1.3 billion dollars in 2017, and the funding comes from the Universal Service Fund, which is collected from phone subscribers by service providers.
[...] The proposal, introduced by the commission in November of 2017, would limit the Lifeline program to providers that own their networks. This would effectively eliminate "resellers," or providers who instead lease space on a network. Such providers service more than 70 percent of Lifeline participants. The program has been criticized in the past for fraud. It has been the subject of several reports from the Government Accountability Office, which highlighted "significant risks" for abuse.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by NewNic on Tuesday September 04 2018, @07:42PM (5 children)
Republicans: competition is good.
Also Republicans: "This competition might threaten to cause a big company to lose some money? Better squash it now."
lib·er·tar·i·an·ism ˌlibərˈterēənizəm/ noun: Magical thinking that useful idiots mistake for serious political theory
(Score: 3, Informative) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday September 04 2018, @08:58PM (2 children)
Magnificent Chaos: the hidden agenda of MAGA.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday September 05 2018, @05:50PM (1 child)
They would rather burn it all down than share it equitably.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday September 05 2018, @07:56PM
Chaos creates opportunity, just shaking up the entrenched players means that new players can come to the table. It can be a good thing. Usually, it is not.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 5, Funny) by julian on Wednesday September 05 2018, @01:16AM
The moderate, pro-business, forward-thinking, non-bigoted, coalition is called the Democratic Party--flawed as it is. The Republican Party is little more than a pirate ship; the worst aspects of humanity banded together to take, leech, steal, and bully whatever they can from the productive members of the world.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 05 2018, @02:39AM
Competition is good... as long as only certain people have permission to do so.
Rogue entry is deemed illegal and will be fraught with legal quagmires that the existing players can pull you into.
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by SomeGuy on Tuesday September 04 2018, @07:51PM (3 children)
The real news is proper landlines might start to look cost effective again, and oh, no we can't have that now. Sell cell phones. Sell cell phones!
And somewhere, a giant dildo shoved way up someone's ass saved their life, so everyone should have one and the government should subsidize it.
Hmm... so if they eliminate this program, the Universal Service Fund charge will go down. Right?... Right??
(Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 04 2018, @07:54PM
No.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday September 04 2018, @11:00PM (1 child)
What does a landline cost? Here in Backwoods Arkansas, it's about twenty dollars per month. And, it connects me to the world. I can call all of the same old local numbers that I could call thirty years ago, for free. I don't have a long distance carrier anymore, but I could easily get one - AT&T or whoever. Those calls cost, though.
But, the landline most certainly connects to 911. Twenty dollars per month, I have 911 services available. Not to mention, that I've had uninterrupted incoming service on that telephone for more than thirty years. Cell phones have come, and cell phones have gone. Cell phone numbers have come and gone. Cell phone carriers have come and gone. But that copper wire has provided consistent service for all of my married life!
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 05 2018, @02:43AM
The last I was paying for landline in Southern California was $45/month. AT&T. And half of the time it didn't work. And they told me they could not fix it without
putting in a device that made it impossible to use a modem. So, I was kinda "forced" into a cellphone connection... that does not work well in my house ( too much
metal shielding ).
(Score: 0, Troll) by jlv on Tuesday September 04 2018, @07:56PM (32 children)
"Millions given subsidized (or free) service might have to pay their own way"
(Score: 4, Insightful) by c0lo on Tuesday September 04 2018, @08:04PM (26 children)
I won't wish you a severe bout of bordering-suicide-depression, but maybe just maybe you can imagine what are the chances you'd pay for the service in conditions like that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 04 2018, @08:14PM (4 children)
(Score: 5, Insightful) by c0lo on Tuesday September 04 2018, @08:26PM (2 children)
In the context of saved human lives, if it needs to come to cutting, I'd think that "build first a better support, cut the older later" would be self-evident.
As it stays now, chances are "We'll cut the knot, then it's not our problem anymore".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1, Troll) by arslan on Tuesday September 04 2018, @10:50PM (1 child)
If the govies can't run the program well the first time round what makes you think it will the second time round? Bureaucracy and rort in govie agencies doesn't just fix itself because you reset a program.
Is it a surprise that the chairman of the organization that is getting the benefit of the program is forecasting doom upon the program's demise?
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday September 04 2018, @11:01PM
Never overestimate your luck. But miracles can still happen. (grin)
However: the idea of "come with something better, dismantle the old after" is not sensible to which entity is managing/running the program, is it?
No.
But... can you exclude the situation in which the doom will actually happen?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 5, Interesting) by number11 on Tuesday September 04 2018, @09:59PM
Right now, it's costing the government not quite $10/month for the phones and service. (Service seems to vary between states and resellers, 500-1000 minutes, some-to-unlimited texts, no-to-some data. I know a number of people who have these phones, AFAIK only one of them got any data.)
So... require that the telcos offer such service including phone without a contract for $10/month? After all, the telcos are using the public's radio bands. Or let the telcos gouge as they wish?
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 04 2018, @09:35PM (6 children)
You're assuming there's some societal benefit to letting the poor and sick survive, that justifies subsidizing them?
(Score: 5, Insightful) by c0lo on Tuesday September 04 2018, @09:58PM (3 children)
I hope you never get in a condition in which the question you raise has you as a subject. You will be surprised how fast you'll find an answer that doesn't even take economy or social aspects into account.
Mind you, in a dog-eat-dog society, it's almost inevitable you will get to the stage of "sick" sooner or later.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday September 04 2018, @11:11PM (2 children)
How often does the average American find himself in an emergency situation - AND NO ONE AROUND HAS A PHONE THAT CAN BE USED TO SUMMON HELP?!?!?!
Even in the pre-cell-phone days, there was generally someone around who could run or drive to a nearby house to call the cops, or fire department, or whatever.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by c0lo on Tuesday September 04 2018, @11:40PM
Yeap, right. Let this cost be supported by good passers-by Samaritans. Surely there will always be one around.
Based on the reaction, I have a feeling you'd be tempted to call Reagan a commie [wikipedia.org]
Oh, wow! $10/mo tax burden to help some maybe send her/his application to a job via Internet.
Cut it quick, we must offer no chances, even to those that may take them. Let them struggle, it's their fault they are in this situation. </sarcasm>
Ah, yes, here's another idea. While at it, cut off the Rural health care [wikipedia.org] too; from his farmlet, Runaway1956 will never need telemedicine that he cannot pay. Since he doesn't need it, it necessary follows nobody needs it too. (grin)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 04 2018, @11:40PM
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 04 2018, @09:59PM
Yep. It's called, "not being a dick when you've got it, because someday you might be on the other end of the soup bowl." Believing it can't happen to you is the most delicious fantasy.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 04 2018, @10:37PM
Whenever I hear someone say something like this, I immediately think of this from Charles Dickens' A Christmas Carol:
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 04 2018, @11:44PM (13 children)
I know 8 people that have these phones.
Every last one has a 'real' phone too. They get them because they can. Not because the need them. They think I am 'crazy' for not getting one too. One dude I know had 4 lines. All but one paid for by you.
This program is so sadly abused :(
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday September 04 2018, @11:56PM (5 children)
Technically, you are wrong: I'm paying for the welfare of Aussies, not Yankees.
Replace it, by all means. But I reckon is only fair to put up the replacement before dismantling the older one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Wednesday September 05 2018, @01:50AM (3 children)
I believe they prefer the term "Septics".
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday September 05 2018, @02:33AM (2 children)
Meh, I'm not quite familiar with Pom's slang.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Wednesday September 05 2018, @02:54AM (1 child)
Oh. I've only ever heard it in Melbourne.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday September 05 2018, @03:17AM
That's news for me.
I had to google the term and found it's originated in rhyming slang [urbandictionary.com].
But... yeah, whaddya know... the proper Oz term is seppo [urbandictionary.com]. Kinda sounds like.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 05 2018, @02:35AM
Ah then you have no f-ng clue how this program is used and abused and what it is for. I think you will find you are *WILDLY* wrong on pretty much all aspects of the program then. There is the propaganda which you have spread all over this discussion. You have not seen first hand then how it is abused. Nice. Care to give me anymore propaganda?
(Score: 0, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 04 2018, @11:59PM
Is that you, Ivanka?
(Score: 4, Informative) by c0lo on Wednesday September 05 2018, @12:09AM (4 children)
Really [snopes.com]? If true, it's likely an outright fraud, 'cause I can't imagine $10/mo subsidy is enough to pay for 3 numbers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 05 2018, @02:31AM (3 children)
Yes it is fraud. Yes he does this sort of shit all the time. His family and friends do too. Every last one also has t-mobile or boost smartphone in addition to the 'free one'. You are being systematically ripped off. They sold this as a nice gesture to help people. I thought the same at one point. Now that I have seen the abuse first hand these programs do little more than make some people feel good without doing anything. That VZW is saying 'no no it is fine' does not surprise me one bit. They are *well* aware of the double sell going on here. You think he would get in trouble if I turned him in? HA! At best they would turn him off for a month and he would just have the thing on again somewhere else. No fines, no jail, no cops. Just a slight inconvenience for him (remember he still has the smart phone too that he bought). Plus the smart phone he bought for his girlfriend. Who also magically has 70 dollars a month to play for a smartphone plan too. Because and I quote "dat bama phone be nasty".
Another dude I know spent 3 months badgering me for my old VZ smartphone to use on AT&T (yeah I know, and I told him). He was convinced he could convert it to GSM from 3g CDMA. He was also going to convert his 'obamaphone' account into a smartphone. So I finally gave it to him to find out first hand. Could not convert it. But magically he kept the old flip phone with 700 minutes a month PLUS magically he had 80 bucks a month to get AT&T and a galaxy 7. Tell me is this someone who needs a free phone?
Those are but 3 of many many many examples out there. This program is rife with abuse. No one wants to actually do anything about it because of 'reasons'.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 05 2018, @03:39AM (1 child)
And you're downvoted by more fools who can't handle cognitive dissonance. But according to them, everyone else is ignorant and backwards.
Or they're just liars.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 05 2018, @07:55AM
Yes fraud happens, but usually it isnt on the level you think. These anecdotes are not worthy, come back with real data.
(Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Wednesday September 05 2018, @05:02PM
If he has two phones, is he going to make twice as many phone calls as with just one phone? Is he really going to cost more to the cellphone company?
(Score: 1) by i286NiNJA on Wednesday September 05 2018, @05:51PM
I had one too. When I was a college student.
How exactly are you able to read the technical stories posted here but unable to obtain a job that pays 125% of the federal poverty guidelines?
If any of this is true your "friend" is an idiot. This program is extremely unpopular with republicans and they'd love to use it as a way to ban a bunch of people from welfare.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday September 04 2018, @09:00PM (3 children)
Well, that's totally more fair because: no freebies, no handouts, if your Daddy didn't give you a giant pile 'o cash then you'd better get out there and bust your ass for everything, even basic life safety essentials.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Tuesday September 04 2018, @09:04PM
Too bad nobody told that to Trump.
When trying to solve a problem don't ask who suffers from the problem, ask who profits from the problem.
(Score: 2) by arslan on Tuesday September 04 2018, @10:56PM (1 child)
Riiight.. and life has to be lived at the extreme. Either we do handouts galore or we don't whatsoever right? Maybe cutting one social program doesn't really mean either extreme so maybe those taking sides can take a chill pill and stop twisting everything into pro-Trump or anti-Trump for a minute - is that too much to ask?
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday September 05 2018, @01:22AM
Reliable phone communication has taken a hit in the USA since "cord cutting" became the economically attractive thing to do. Sure, we've got cellular service wherever we go, well - 97% of the time. And that's what sucks for home service: landline voice quality and reliability has gone downhill to the point where it's no better than cell service.
Now, as for this one "social" program, the ability to call for fire, ambulance and police services when needed does measurably impact outcomes for both life and property, dramatically positively. How many millions of households are in some way depending on this social program? And, when you cut it, how many will end up with no reliable phone service to their home? Maybe they have cellular service some of the time, maybe the coverage is weak, and maybe they can't manage the finances surrounding cellular service to give themselves working voice service to the home 24-7-365.
Bottom line, a year after this program gets cut, there will be a list of sad stories with houses burning down, people dying, etc. that "could have been avoided if they only didn't lose their landline."
If we want to make the US more like the 3rd world, where the rich have everything they need/want and the poor don't even have the simple stuff, this is a great step in that direction.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 5, Funny) by DannyB on Tuesday September 04 2018, @09:27PM
Instead of complaining about being poor, why don't they just buy more money?
Let them eat twinkies.
When trying to solve a problem don't ask who suffers from the problem, ask who profits from the problem.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Tuesday September 04 2018, @08:20PM (5 children)
If Verizon is against the change, why is Pai pushing for it ?
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday September 04 2018, @08:33PM
A compulsion for pushing combined with not enough agenda to push - what can a man do in these circumstances?
After all, it's Verizon's fault: if they'd table an agenda to push, you wouldn't see this.
(grin)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Tuesday September 04 2018, @09:04PM (2 children)
Maybe Verizon is in favor of it, pretends to be against it, gets their sock puppet to push for it. Competitors think that if Verizon is in favor of this (but in reality are against it) then they need to be against it (thus helping Verizon).
A better question is why would any telecom company would want millions of poor people to have phone service, or a lifeline if the telecom is not allowed to harvest their vital organs in exchange.
When trying to solve a problem don't ask who suffers from the problem, ask who profits from the problem.
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Wednesday September 05 2018, @02:56AM
Bigger market.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 05 2018, @07:59AM
Tracking, data, service cost is way inflated.
(Score: 0, Troll) by realDonaldTrump on Tuesday September 04 2018, @09:24PM
I'll tell you, he's VERY DISLOYAL. Wouldn’t approve the Sinclair Broadcast merger with Tribune. Should have told me -- I wouldn't have hired!!!
(Score: 5, Informative) by Ellis D. Tripp on Tuesday September 04 2018, @09:40PM (1 child)
"Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up, you end up with a lot of scum on the top!"--Edward Abbey
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 04 2018, @10:24PM
would have been even more informative with some links:
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/phone-home/ [snopes.com]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Service_Fund#Low_income_(Lifeline) [wikipedia.org]
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Snotnose on Wednesday September 05 2018, @12:52AM
I hate Ajit as much as the rest of you, but don't really see this as A Bad Thing (tm). This sort of thing spurs competition which, dangit, Pai hates.
give me credit for posting this under my name, but IMHO he's promoting competition.
That said, I live in a major city. I have 2 choices for internet/TV: Cox (with whom I have internet service only) and U-verse (who I had for 9 years until they priced themselves out of reality).
/ FWIW, after 3 months Cox reliability is a solid C
// My only problem with U-verse was the price
/// Spent $300 on hardware, went from $145 uverse to $15 cox internet. I'm ok with that.
When the dust settled America realized it was saved by a porn star.
(Score: 1, Offtopic) by jmorris on Wednesday September 05 2018, @01:43AM (3 children)
This program is almost entirely fraud and abuse. Besides the very premise is defective. I pay less than $10/mo for super basic cell service so I know it can be done on the open market, even sold to an individual customer. Why can't people pay for their own damned cell phone? It isn't some basic "Right", the things have only been widespread for twenty years. No. This is just more creeping Socialism, trying to declare everything is a "right" and somebody else must provide every need for people. Free food, housing, health care, phone, Internet service, cable TV, etc. Where does it effing stop? Is XBox a "Right"? Basic or Gold? Free clothing, gotta be name brand of is Faded Glory good enough?
Enough. Premise rejected. You are only entitled to the only things everyone is assured of, Death and Taxes. Everything else you should have to earn. Any charity should be just that, not a Right, not an entitlement, charity given by the community willingly and thus only given to help people and not make lifelong dependents of them. Show me the part of the Constitution where any of this Welfare State crap is authorized to the Feral Government? Since it isn't there they should not be doing it. I'd also recommend that States also not do it, instead leaving charity where it belongs, local religious and civic organizations. As it used to be.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 05 2018, @03:42AM
But, but... EBIL TWUMP!
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 05 2018, @06:40AM
You can blame Reagan for it, he got this ball rolling [wikipedia.org], the effing commie.
(Score: 2) by shortscreen on Wednesday September 05 2018, @10:11AM
Indeed, Tracfone and Tello are available for under $10/month. And if I'm not mistaken, any old cell phone fished out of a dumpster can be used to call 911 for free. I don't see how the overhead cost to administer this program could be worth it, regardless of one's views on social programs.