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Loneliness is a serious public-health problem:
Doctors and policymakers in the rich world are increasingly worried about loneliness. Campaigns to reduce it have been launched in Britain, Denmark and Australia. In Japan the government has surveyed hikikomori, or "people who shut themselves in their homes". Last year Vivek Murthy, a former surgeon-general of the United States, called loneliness an epidemic, likening its impact on health to obesity or smoking 15 cigarettes per day. In January Theresa May, the British prime minister, appointed a minister for loneliness.
That the problem exists is obvious; its nature and extent are not. Obesity can be measured on scales. But how to weigh an emotion? Researchers start by distinguishing several related conditions. Loneliness is not synonymous with social isolation (how often a person meets or speaks to friends and family) or with solitude (which implies a choice to be alone).
Instead researchers define loneliness as perceived social isolation, a feeling of not having the social contacts one would like. Of course, the objectively isolated are much more likely than the average person to feel lonely. But loneliness can also strike those with seemingly ample friends and family. Nor is loneliness always a bad thing. John Cacioppo, an American psychologist who died in March, called it a reflex honed by natural selection. Early humans would have been at a disadvantage if isolated from a group, he noted, so it makes sense for loneliness to stir a desire for company. Transient loneliness still serves that purpose today. The problem comes when it is prolonged.
[...] A study published in 2010 using this scale estimated that 35% of Americans over 45 were lonely. Of these 45% had felt this way for at least six years; a further 32% for one to five years. In 2013 Britain's Office for National Statistics (ONS), by dint of asking a simple question, classed 25% of people aged 52 or over as "sometimes lonely" with an extra 9% "often lonely".
Other evidence points to the extent of isolation. For 41% of Britons over 65, TV or a pet is their main source of company, according to Age UK, a charity. In Japan more than half a million people stay at home for at least six months at a time, making no contact with the outside world, according to a report by the government in 2016. Another government study reckons that 15% of Japanese regularly eat alone. A popular TV show is called "The Solitary Gourmet".
[...] The idea that loneliness is bad for your health is not new. One early job of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police in the Yukon region was to keep tabs on the well-being of gold prospectors who might go months without human contact. Evidence points to the benign power of a social life. Suicides fall during football World Cups, for example, maybe because of the transient feeling of community.
But only recently has medicine studied the links between relationships and health. In 2015 a meta-analysis led by Julianne Holt-Lunstad of Brigham Young University, in Utah, synthesised 70 papers, through which 3.4m participants were followed over an average of seven years. She found that those classed as lonely had a 26% higher risk of dying, and those living alone a 32% higher chance, after accounting for differences in age and health status.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by ikanreed on Monday September 10 2018, @02:19PM (22 children)
Who here seriously does not prefer being around their pet to most people?
(Score: 3, Touché) by Kilo110 on Monday September 10 2018, @02:46PM (17 children)
Put me in that camp. An animal is a poor substitute for real human contact and it's a sad state with people have become so disagreeable that it becomes socially acceptable.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by ikanreed on Monday September 10 2018, @03:31PM (16 children)
I mean, I can appreciate that, but it also makes it clear you're 100% not "one of the good ones" who I'd actually enjoy being around.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday September 10 2018, @04:13PM (9 children)
What is sad is that some people are so isolated that an animal is the best support they have.
Animals are not judgemental.
Every performance optimization is a grate wait lifted from my shoulders.
(Score: 3, Touché) by ikanreed on Monday September 10 2018, @04:49PM (7 children)
That's only one of the many many many positive qualities of my adorable puppy.
Always playful, affectionate, friendly, oh so fuzzy, enthusiastic about anything, takes practical jokes well, appreciative of everything I give them, does what I ask, and not ugly hairless weird biped with flat faces.
Not a great conversationalist, though
(Score: 2) by Aiwendil on Monday September 10 2018, @05:47PM
Well, not far off on that one [google.com] ;)
(Score: 3, Funny) by DannyB on Monday September 10 2018, @05:54PM (5 children)
Dogs lick to express their love and infection towards their owners.
Every performance optimization is a grate wait lifted from my shoulders.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 10 2018, @06:02PM (3 children)
...and their balls. Mostly their balls!
(Score: 3, Touché) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday September 10 2018, @08:10PM (2 children)
Do you blame them?
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 10 2018, @08:19PM
For affection or infection?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 10 2018, @11:46PM
On the contrary, I'm glad they're not licking mine.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 10 2018, @08:23PM
Dogs also lick their balls & buttholes. Might as well shove your face up a dog's ass.
(Score: 2) by Hyper on Tuesday September 11 2018, @10:34AM
Never been owned by a cat?
(Score: 2) by Kilo110 on Monday September 10 2018, @11:39PM (5 children)
I wasn't calling you disagreeable btw. It was a statement directed at society in general.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday September 11 2018, @12:16AM (4 children)
Nothing wrong with being disagreeable. It's a useful character trait if you don't let it get out of hand.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Funny) by Kilo110 on Tuesday September 11 2018, @01:15AM
I'd agree with that. But I didn't want him to think I was casually insulting him for no reason.
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Tuesday September 11 2018, @02:15PM (2 children)
When I took one of those Big 5 tests, I came out 98% disagreeable. So your statement is about the only thing I agree with. :D
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday September 11 2018, @04:34PM (1 child)
I probably would too. I default to trying to tear up any idea or plan I consider. It's a very good way to approach things if you write code or don't want to look like an idiot.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Tuesday September 11 2018, @06:31PM
Yeah, or as I say about my shopping habits -- I have buyer's remorse BEFORE the sale.
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 0, Troll) by suburbanitemediocrity on Monday September 10 2018, @05:01PM
Hitler did.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/how-do-life/201605/people-who-prefer-dogs-humans [psychologytoday.com]
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday September 10 2018, @05:38PM (2 children)
I don't have a pet. I outsourced that aspect of life. My neighbor has 18 cats, so I just pet one of them when I feel like it.
Oddly, she's not a Cat Lady. She's extremely social and socially active and has a live-in boy toy about my age. She just doesn't have it in her to not give a cat who needs one a home.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 11 2018, @12:31AM (1 child)
> ... She just doesn't have it in her to not give a cat who needs one a home.
That is the definition of a cat lady. I know a few that fit your description including husbands and an active social life.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday September 11 2018, @12:42AM
My understanding had always been it required living alone and having little to no social circle outside your cats.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Revek on Monday September 10 2018, @02:37PM (12 children)
I have never been at peace as much as when I am resting in my chosen solitude.
This page was generated by a Swarm of Roaming Elephants
(Score: 2) by Revek on Monday September 10 2018, @02:39PM
'alone'
This page was generated by a Swarm of Roaming Elephants
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday September 10 2018, @04:00PM (6 children)
Even if you're looking at cars pass on a busy street, a porch swing can be a very quiet place to think. It's not the sound. It's the lack of attention requests directed at you.
Look at me! Look what I did! Hey, can you help me with my Windows PC? I was told I need to power cycle and that sounds very complicated!
And devices: Buzzzzzz. Ding Dong! Ring, ring, ring. Beep. Ding. Tweedle-beep.
Every performance optimization is a grate wait lifted from my shoulders.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by suburbanitemediocrity on Monday September 10 2018, @05:18PM (2 children)
And people said I was crazy to move to the middle of nowhere with no money.
A decade later I'm more than financially secure (but not big) and have many friends. I realized a few weeks ago that my friends have keys to my house, but I don't.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by crafoo on Monday September 10 2018, @09:24PM (1 child)
Out of curiosity, how did you make friends? Hang out in the nearest town at the diner or something?
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 11 2018, @03:00AM
Feed store, more likely.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday September 10 2018, @05:34PM (2 children)
Agreed, as long as you leave your phone inside on the charger. A seasonally appropriate beverage adds to the effectiveness as well.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by DannyB on Monday September 10 2018, @06:38PM (1 child)
I find that I can take my phone out to the porch swing just fine.
Don't have any social media accounts.
Don't have your phone pester you from people who frequently generate alerts over trivial things.
Don't have your phone alert from news apps. There probably isn't really any actual news that needs your immediate attention. Now if there were a nuclear launch, I would want to know about it. But news apps can't seem to distinguish the importance of that from BREAKING NEWS !!! Such-and-so famous person is romantically interested in So-and-such other person.
The alert system on your phone is supposed to be to manage your attention about important things. Not take over your life. People you trust, and allow direct messages from, probably won't bother you with trivial things.
Every performance optimization is a grate wait lifted from my shoulders.
(Score: 4, Funny) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday September 10 2018, @08:16PM
My phone never alerts on anything except phone calls and text messages. Unfortunately I have a rather large family, a pretty decent social circle, and cmn32480 has my number for emergencies (or when he just read that I was going to have a nap).
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by richtopia on Monday September 10 2018, @04:30PM
Some of the most relaxing time spent on my travels is the metro in East Asia. Culturally conversations on the metro are typically quiet, and my inability to speak the language compounds the solitude. Surrounded by people, I get to watch the world go by and not worry about the details.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Monday September 10 2018, @06:06PM
Then you aren't lonely, as loneliness is a sense of social isolation when one does not want that or hasn't intentionally chosen it as TFA says. If you want to be socially isolated you may feel like you're alone but that's what you want.
This sig for rent.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Tuesday September 11 2018, @03:27AM
I'm like that at times: when people/socializing get me down or stresses (sometimes I just don't get people), I find I HAVE to go on my Linux box, all alone, to de-stress.
I'm rarely lonely, but do like the company of my wife and family.
I am rarely bored as well.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 11 2018, @08:29AM
The more I love humanity in general the less I love man in particular. -- Dostoevsky
(Score: 3, Insightful) by bradley13 on Monday September 10 2018, @02:46PM (48 children)
There are a couple of advice columns that I read semi-regularly. Therapy this, therapy that. Lots of "snowflake" problems, where a sound kick in the ass seems like the best therapy of all.
It strikes me that life must be pretty good, for people to have these kinds of problems. To have time to suffer these problems, one must already have covered all of the lower levels of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs: they're fed, watered and safe. Sure enough: in TFA they "surveyed nationally representative samples of people in three rich countries."
If someone is lonely, they could join a club. Volunteer for a charity. Go to church. Sign up for a course. If someone can't be bothered to do anything about it, well, there's this tiny violin that plays a particular song...
Everyone is somebody else's weirdo.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 10 2018, @02:55PM (1 child)
A look, another internet know-it-all who does not have the problem, but knows everything about it among everything else.
(Score: 1, Redundant) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday September 10 2018, @05:15PM
Nice ad hom. It totally lets you off the hook from refuting anything he said while still being able to disagree with him.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 10 2018, @03:00PM (15 children)
Fucking morons that don't believe in or understand depression have views like this.
(Score: 5, Informative) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday September 10 2018, @05:14PM (7 children)
A) We're not talking about depression.
B) If you don't know what you're talking about, it's best not to speak.
I've spent most of my life dealing with Depression, so allow me to educate you. For starters, yes, if you are too physically and mentally busy to navel gaze, you will have far less problems with Depression. Also, a well directed kick in the ass by someone you'll take a kick in the ass from can be precisely what will do you the most good.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 10 2018, @05:19PM (6 children)
Oh if only you would take your own advice.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday September 10 2018, @05:29PM (5 children)
I do. I've made it a point for quite some time to not say things I don't know to be true. I'm on rare occasion wrong but I almost never speak on something I haven't put considerable thought into. That should be obvious to anyone who actually reads what I say. I guess you need that advice as well.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 10 2018, @07:41PM (4 children)
Nah you shoot your mouth off all the time and have been proven wtong many times. I guess your ego is too tied up in that self-image to give it much critical thought.
My comment was originally more of a joke, but your ego / self delusion needs some deflating.
(Score: 4, Spam) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday September 10 2018, @08:16PM
Tits or GTFO.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Touché) by c0lo on Monday September 10 2018, @11:53PM (2 children)
What to push him back into depression, aren't you?
(grin)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 3, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday September 11 2018, @12:24AM (1 child)
I know precisely who and what I am, so I don't have to believe my self-image; it's fact. Once you've accepted yourself for who you are and accepted the world for what it is, depression's hard to come by short of a close friend or family member dying.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Tuesday September 11 2018, @03:39AM
I used to think I was weird, a social ass/dork/what have you.
When my son was diagnosed as autistic I took a look at myself and found I too am hugely on that spectrum.
At that point I found I was much happier with myself and calmer because I'm not 'weird' or 'dorky'...I'm just autistic and off centre a bit.
I examine myself often, examining flaws and strengths but this was a revelation. I am autistic. Much happier autistic person.
Knowing yourself is so very helpful.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 3, Funny) by Runaway1956 on Monday September 10 2018, @10:05PM (6 children)
There are some excellent cures for depression. Try hiking. Choose someplace known for it's population of grizzly bears. For best results, you might want to pack some raw meat into your backpack. Facing down a hungry grizzly who wants your meat will lift your spirits. Unless, of course, you end up on the menu, yourself. Either way, you won't be depressed.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 10 2018, @11:11PM (5 children)
So now you lot are sinking down to the "kill yourself" level of commentary? You're getting worse runaway, did you just get a bad diagnosis of butt cancer?
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday September 11 2018, @07:20AM (2 children)
You have obviously missed the point. Tell me, Grasshoppper, what is the sound of one hand clapping?
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 11 2018, @07:29PM (1 child)
Your face getting slapped right before you sleep on the couch for the 1000th time.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday September 12 2018, @03:47AM
Pro-tip: Never let your woman pick out your couch. She's not going to be the one sleeping on it.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 11 2018, @10:15AM (1 child)
He didn't say that. Often times, Runaway comes across as an asshole, but this time he's spot on. If you feel lonely, find people to be around with. Sometimes this requires a little bit of effort. I've been struck how some people would say "I feel homesick" because they are away from home. Well, why don't find new friends? Make a new home? To that, they would think (actually act) "oh no no no, I'll just get used to being along". So you get what you get, 1st world problems where people have too much time on their hands and are unaccustomed to actually doing anything about it.
1. find friends
2. do things (hopefully with friends, but I guess bears work too as distraction)
3. see above
If you are lonely, then find someone or something (a hobby) so you don't have to be lonely. And if you look online (like dating sites) you'll quickly realize how pathetic most people are at that task. No objective thought or follow though. We end up with "lonely" because mostly type-B/C personalities don't even know they are that. So helpless they don't even realize the easy cure for their loneliness. Pathetic.
(Score: 2) by Hyper on Wednesday September 12 2018, @03:23AM
Isn't this what bars are for?
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday September 10 2018, @04:10PM (14 children)
[Citation needed]
Some people are not lucky enough to have someone who cares for their well being.
If those don't work. Maybe see a doctor. There may be an actual physiological, measurable, chemical problem which is objectively detectable. It may be treatable to varying degrees.
Try living with someone who suffers a treatable mental health problem. It might be one of the best selfless things you can do. It can be frustrating at times. Sometimes you just have to let things go because it's the mental illness. Politely ask if they've taken their drugs. And yes -- somehow -- I don't know what they say in therapy -- but therapy DOES help.
They are not snowflakes and might be tougher than you are.
Finally, yes, there are some cases, but not all cases, and maybe not even most cases, where your suggestion is the correct therapy.
Every performance optimization is a grate wait lifted from my shoulders.
(Score: 2) by suburbanitemediocrity on Monday September 10 2018, @05:33PM (2 children)
It's very easy if you care about their well being also. Well, I guess that is the hard part if you're a sociopath.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by DannyB on Monday September 10 2018, @06:12PM (1 child)
sociopaths are probably toxic enough to have very few if any people who care for their well being.
Every performance optimization is a grate wait lifted from my shoulders.
(Score: 2) by suburbanitemediocrity on Monday September 10 2018, @06:42PM
Just saying it goes booth ways
(Score: 3, Interesting) by suburbanitemediocrity on Monday September 10 2018, @05:38PM (2 children)
I think the best therapy for most people would be to move to some small African village for a year. You'll be surrounded by people who care and you can get some satisfaction from the feeling of helping.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 10 2018, @07:04PM (1 child)
Engineers Without Borders?
(Score: 3, Interesting) by suburbanitemediocrity on Monday September 10 2018, @08:28PM
https://www.ewb-usa.org/ [ewb-usa.org]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineers_Without_Borders [wikipedia.org]
It's a very serious suggestion/belief. I didn't do it, but have lived in Africa and know people who have and other similar. I would say it's impossible to have any perspective on so many different problems without. Go join the peace corp anr any of the hundreds, probably thousands of ngo's or religious groups.
I read an interview by Danny Elfman once and he said
(Score: 3, Interesting) by bradley13 on Monday September 10 2018, @05:40PM (6 children)
Just to clarify: TFA is about people claiming to be lonely, not people with mental health conditions. Yes, someone who is depressed may, as a result, be lonely - but that's not what TFA is talking about. TFA is looking at loneliness as a primary cause: "...loneliness may lead to ill health", and laying the foundation for turning it into a medical condition.
This is a classic "snowflake" problem. If you aren't actually ill (depression, dementia, etc.), then get off your duff and do something. But no: TFA wants to call loneliness a "public health problem", so that snowflakes get to blame someone else for their problems. I swear, in 10 or 20 years, the single largest profession is going to be therapists of various flavors.
A sound kick in the ass is the better prescription.
Everyone is somebody else's weirdo.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by DannyB on Monday September 10 2018, @06:22PM (2 children)
I would tend to agree.
But loneliness may not be a primary cause. It may be a result. A symptom of something needing a different treatment.
If someone is lonely and depressed, which is the cause? Are you sure it is that way in all cases?
I think you are too focused on snowflakes who want to blame someone else for their problems. That is not the only problem. And its solution (which you propose) is not the solution for other problems.
Also, I wish there were a better term than snowflake for overly sensitive and entitled people. Snowflake is a loaded term partly because it has entered politics to describe someone that one disagrees with.
Every performance optimization is a grate wait lifted from my shoulders.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Aiwendil on Monday September 10 2018, @07:34PM (1 child)
Then make one up. I propose "SEP" (Sensitive, Entitled, People), plural "SEPs" and their influence "SEPsis" :)
A bit less tounge-in-cheek would be "self-entitiled"
(Score: 4, Funny) by acid andy on Monday September 10 2018, @08:41PM
If a cat has kittens, does a rat have rittens, a bat bittens and a mat mittens?
(Score: 3, Interesting) by dry on Tuesday September 11 2018, @05:58AM (2 children)
You don't know many old people whose spouse has died and just have enough money to pay the bills and a bit of food. I've known enough to see that it can be a pretty lonely life. These people don't usually complain even if entitled people do think they're snowflakes. Especially for the introverts, getting of your duff and doing something when you're full of aches isn't the best advice.
Lots of younger people who aren't good at socializing, don't have much money after paying the bills who are stuck living a life of quiet desperation as well.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 11 2018, @08:41AM (1 child)
When I didn't have any money and recovering from cancer, I used to go hiking every day. I met many many other people in the same boat (so to speak).
Reaching the top of the mountain and standing on the geologic marker was a daily ritual. Validation you were alive and made it through another day.
Every city I've ever lived in has popular hiking trails.
(Score: 2) by dry on Tuesday September 11 2018, @11:11PM
Yes hiking or just getting outside is wonderful for mental health, I've even heard that Doctors around here are prescribing sitting in the forest for a couple of hours for depression. I've also spent lots of time hiking though to be honest, I've never really met anyone doing it, probably due to my being an introvert.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Gaaark on Tuesday September 11 2018, @03:43AM
"There may be an actual physiological, measurable, chemical problem"
I find when I drink dairy (I'm lactose intolerant) I get very grouchy and depressed...I can actually 'feel' my mood changing and any negative thing will get me down and depressed.
I think what happens in the gut affects people more than they realise.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 10 2018, @05:43PM (13 children)
Sure, trade one mental illness for another.
Instead of being alone, you get to believe in an imaginary sky daddy. And the people you get to be around are the dumbest, most idiotic drooling retarded shit heads in the universe. On the upshot, you get to rape children.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by bradley13 on Monday September 10 2018, @05:54PM (3 children)
Geez. I'm not religious myself, but many people take a lot of satisfaction from their churches. A lot of them aren't particularly devout - frankly, a lot are probably agnostic. It's more about the community, the friends and the shared traditions.
If you think anyone who attends a church is an "idiotic drooling retarded shit head", you need to get out more often.
Everyone is somebody else's weirdo.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday September 10 2018, @06:31PM (2 children)
Yep.
I was surprised that the word dangerous wasn't included in the description.
Words like 'church' and 'religion', without any qualification, tend to include a vast subset of the global population with incredibly diverse beliefs. The word 'church' was probably meant to refer to some subset of religion that is some particular flavor commonly practiced in America. eg, a stereotype.
The description "idiotic drooling retarded shit head" could probably be applied to certain political groups or parties, to certain professions, and be equally as wrong as a generalization.
Every performance optimization is a grate wait lifted from my shoulders.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 10 2018, @08:15PM (1 child)
Actually, I seem to recall reading that when an English language Bible uses the word church the original Greek is typically ecclesia, which just means group. It doesn't actually have to have a religious meaning. For example, there is a story in the Book of Acts where the Apostle Paul finds himself turned on by a rioting mob during his preaching; I'm told that in the original Greek the "rioting mob" is called an ecclesia. Apparently, the original Greek text makes no distinction between a rioting mob and a religious gathering. So, by itself, church doesn't necessarily have any religious connotation. How it picked up the particularly religious meaning I can't really say.
(Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Tuesday September 11 2018, @10:02PM
Where is aristarchos when we need him?
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 10 2018, @06:14PM (3 children)
One of the most religious people I know is an atheist. She goes to atheist meet up groups once a week, has atheist parties, goes to atheist protests, reads atheist books, hangs out on cl/atheism and goes out proselytizing atheism on college campuses. Once she was asked to give a eulogy that turned into a sermon on atheism.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Tuesday September 11 2018, @03:49AM (2 children)
I find I walk the walk more than most 'religious' people I know: many of them talk the talk without actually putting it into practice.
But I haven't joined the 'Church of Atheism', lol.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 11 2018, @08:45AM
"Atheism is very stupid." - Carl Sagan
(Score: 2) by Hyper on Wednesday September 12 2018, @03:13AM
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-scotland-44811343/the-sunday-assembly-a-church-with-no-religion [bbc.com]
There are places like this where people do the church meetup social event thing minus the religion part
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday September 10 2018, @10:21PM (4 children)
It is NOT mandatory that you profess any belief, or any particular belief, to go to church. You can go just for the potluck dinners, the socialization, and the feeling that some of these people actually give a damn about you. If you think it's all crazy, that's cool - just do some window shopping for some flavor of crazy that is more palatable to you. You do realize that a lot of people besides Southern Baptists have churches, or synagogues, or mosques, or whatever they might call their temples.
https://www.paganalliancechurch.org/ [paganalliancechurch.org]
Looky, looky! Someplace to go! You can get out your best jeans, and your cleanest dirty shirt, and be part of a nice fall festival! What's more, there are certain to be members of the opposite sex - ATTRACTIVE members of the opposite sex - at any festival.
Have fun! And, don't do anything that I wouldn't do!
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday September 11 2018, @12:29AM (3 children)
Or you can start your own church, slowly turn it into a cult, proclaim yourself $deity's prophet, and never have to worry about getting a date.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 11 2018, @01:11AM (2 children)
> ...and never have to worry about getting a date.
and never have to worry about getting a date with a cultist wacko.
FTFY.
(Score: 3, Funny) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday September 11 2018, @02:08AM (1 child)
Didn't we just do a "crazy chicks are better in bed" story?
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Tuesday September 11 2018, @03:52AM
He's looking for the crazy chick wearing the spaghetti strainer.
In bed.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Tuesday September 11 2018, @02:19PM
Methinks a lot of them aren't so much lonely, as seeking attention. And I'd bet there's a pretty good correlation with absent fathers.
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 10 2018, @02:48PM (27 children)
> a minister for loneliness.
We are all alone, only introverts can deal with the reality.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by DannyB on Monday September 10 2018, @03:53PM (21 children)
The original purpose of penitentiaries was so that people could comtemplate, reflect, or pray.
Now we have the isolation, combined with loud noisy blinking animated lights all around us to give the illusion of excitement. And drugs of all kinds.
People should be happier than ever.
The problem is on the inside. It always was. In every age.
Every performance optimization is a grate wait lifted from my shoulders.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday September 10 2018, @05:19PM (20 children)
If you don't take them back to their earlier incarnations, maybe. Imprisonment started out as "you're a piece of shit and deserve to suffer for what you've done" though.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday September 10 2018, @06:11PM (16 children)
Yes, prisons and penitentiaries were for prisoners.
IMO, rehabilitation should be favored, when possible, over punishment. There are no doubt many cases where this is not possible. But then in cases where rehabilitation is not possible, why should such people ever be released? Especially if they are a danger to themselves or others.
I wonder how much crime is driven by mental illness of some form? (Possibly a physiological illness, not environmental.)
All that said, there are some people that I must admit having an instinctive knee jerk reaction of "you deserve to suffer" attitude towards.
Every performance optimization is a grate wait lifted from my shoulders.
(Score: 3, Informative) by suburbanitemediocrity on Monday September 10 2018, @06:19PM (7 children)
I bet it would be quite a bit. But you can't lock someone up for being mentally ill and you cannot force them to take medication against their will. Just read about fetal alcohol syndrome and the problems it causes and lack of ability to do anything about it.
https://www.fasworld.com/fasd-facts/ [fasworld.com]
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday September 10 2018, @06:33PM (3 children)
If it were possible to fix all the world's problems, we would have done it already.
Every performance optimization is a grate wait lifted from my shoulders.
(Score: 2) by suburbanitemediocrity on Monday September 10 2018, @06:49PM (1 child)
Some problems may be unfixable and we could be wasting huge amounts of resources trying to fix them.
Per the article I linked:
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday September 10 2018, @08:44PM
Kneejerk reaction: put all the lonely people together in a room.
:-)
Every performance optimization is a grate wait lifted from my shoulders.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 11 2018, @12:06AM
Bullshit. We have enough food to feed the current world's population, and yet many die of hunger.
I s'pose you want me to conflate the notion of possible with the one of willingness.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 10 2018, @08:37PM (1 child)
Yes, you can. In WA state, it's called "civil commitment". The pertinent state laws are full of loopholes. Ever seen the movie "House on Haunted Hill" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_on_Haunted_Hill_(1999_film))? WA state has two 'Vannacutt Institutes'; Eastern State & Western State hospitals.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 11 2018, @08:57AM
They have to be a danger to themselves or others. Mental illness is not sufficient.
https://mentalillnesspolicy.org/ivc/involuntary-commitment-concepts.html [mentalillnesspolicy.org]
(Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Tuesday September 11 2018, @10:06PM
No, we can't force anyone to take treatment except in extreme situations. But maybe, just maybe, we could make it available for those that want it?
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday September 10 2018, @08:20PM (2 children)
There are plenty of crimes without a significant recidivism rate, so no rehabilitation necessary but there do need to be consequences.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Tuesday September 11 2018, @03:56AM (1 child)
"There are plenty of crimes without a significant recidivism rate,"
Is suicide still a crime?
Very low recidivism rate for the successful. :)
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 3, Touché) by dry on Tuesday September 11 2018, @06:03AM
Unless you believe in reincarnation.
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Tuesday September 11 2018, @02:25PM (4 children)
http://criminal-justice.iresearchnet.com/crime/intelligence-and-crime/3/ [iresearchnet.com]
"The majority of studies have found IQ differences between offenders and nonoffenders (e.g., Ellis &Walsh, 2003). On average, the IQ for chronic juvenile offenders is 92, about half a standard deviation below the population mean. For chronic adult offenders, however, the average IQ is 85, 1 standard deviation below the population mean. A study of Texas inmates who entered the prison system in 2002 indicated that approximately 23% of the inmates scored below 80, almost 69% scored between 80 and 109, and only 9.6% scored above 110 (Ellis & Walsh, 2003)."
How do you "rehabilitate" the combination of low IQ (relevant as the inability to consider consequences) and poor impulse control??
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Tuesday September 11 2018, @04:36PM
If only we had Soma so the Deltas could stay focused on their work.
Every performance optimization is a grate wait lifted from my shoulders.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday September 11 2018, @04:37PM (2 children)
Publicly drop their pants and spank their bare ass with a ping-pong paddle for offenses that would normally carry less than a year of jail time. Hell, put it on YouTube too for that matter.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Tuesday September 11 2018, @06:29PM (1 child)
Probably work wonders with a certain age group.
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday September 11 2018, @07:39PM
There's many thousands of years worth of evidence indicating such, yes.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 10 2018, @08:19PM (2 children)
Well, we are talking about criminals here. They really should be getting feedback from the rest of the world along the lines of "you're a piece of shit and deserve to suffer for what you've done". Just my $0.02.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 12 2018, @03:16AM (1 child)
These days it seems more like a holiday inn with optimal rape thrown in for the unlucky
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday September 12 2018, @03:50AM
Good ole autocorrect, it does make me laugh.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 5, Funny) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday September 10 2018, @05:17PM (4 children)
Speak for yourself. I've got the voices in my head to keep me company.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 4, Funny) by Hartree on Tuesday September 11 2018, @01:07AM
I talk to myself all the time. I only start to worry if I lose the argument too often.
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Tuesday September 11 2018, @02:29PM (2 children)
Are you sure he's not one of the voices in your head? :D
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 3, Funny) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday September 11 2018, @04:38PM (1 child)
Honestly, I prefer to assume you all are.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Funny) by Reziac on Tuesday September 11 2018, @06:41PM
Now that you mention it... that's not a bad policy. Except now I'm not sure if it was suggested by you, or by a voice in my head. And would you please tell the voices in your head to shut up? They're driving me crazy!!
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.