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The Huffington Post is running a story that provides a bit of comic relief from today's mundane news. Creationist Ken Ham, who recently debated Bill Nye the Science Guy over the origins of the universe, is calling for an end to the search for extraterrestrial life because aliens probably don't exist—and if they do, they're going to Hell anyway. In this story, we learn that aliens, if they exist, are doomed to Hell where not even Jesus can save them. Spock would find this to be illogical.
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Extra-terrestrial Life is Damned, Search is Futile
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The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
It is contrary to reasoning to say that there is a vacuum or space in
which there is absolutely nothing.
-- Descartes
(Score: 5, Insightful) by PinkyGigglebrain on Tuesday July 22 2014, @07:33PM
My understanding is that the reason people are going to Hell in the first place is because of the whole "Fall from Grace" thing with the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge. And the only way out is to accept JC as your Savior because he paid for our sins and set up some deal so Humans can get back into Heaven again.
So unless an ET race also fell they would be automatically going to Heaven anyway. Though the article says the Adam's fall effected the WHOLE universe but that ET's where not part of the redemption plan.
If Ham is right God, being omnipotent and knowing that the Serpent would convince Eve to eat the fruit and then get Adam to also take a bite right from the "Let there be Light" line, has let an entire Universe (Multiverse?) full of beings that had nothing to do with Eve/Adam and their naive nature (having no knowledge of Good/Evil in the first place) go to Hell.
Well, so much for the kind, merciful and loving God that I keep hearing about.
Joseph Campbell once said something to the effect that the biggest obstacle to our truly understanding the Divine was our preconceptions of what the Divine is, because by defining it we put limits on that which is limitless and thus fail to fully define it.
Right of wrong, say what you will, but only speak if you have the courage to put your name on it.
"Beware those who would deny you Knowledge, For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."
(Score: 3, Interesting) by hubie on Tuesday July 22 2014, @07:58PM
I always liked Shaw's summary of heaven and hell from Act III [bartleby.com] of Man and Superman (start about line 149).
(Score: 2) by PinkyGigglebrain on Tuesday July 22 2014, @08:34PM
Thanks for the link. I'll have to read it later though, have to go take care of some stuff first.
"Beware those who would deny you Knowledge, For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."
(Score: 1) by turgid on Tuesday July 22 2014, @08:20PM
Joseph Campbell once said something to the effect that the biggest obstacle to our truly understanding the Divine was our preconceptions of what the Divine is, because by defining it we put limits on that which is limitless and thus fail to fully define it.
Our biggest obstacle to truly understanding the Divine is our continual insistence that it exists.
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 2) by PinkyGigglebrain on Tuesday July 22 2014, @09:00PM
kind of proves the point doesn't it. We define that it exists, and by doing so we fail to define that which can't be defined.
I've seen enough weird stuff in my life to know that Shakespeare was right when he had Hamlet say "There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamed of in your philosophy".
There may be nothing but I choose to believe that there is something, what it is I don't know, I don't think I will ever know, the human mind can't comprehend of it at this point in evolution. I do know that I will keep looking for answers to my questions and try to take what I learn and understand how it all fits together. Maybe there isn't a God now, but who can say if after another few 100 billion years of cosmic evolution the Universe itself will not become sentient in a way that today would be called "God".
read this; http://www.multivax.com/last_question.html [multivax.com]
Or, in a 100 trillion years the Universe will just be an endless, nearly empty expanse filled only with the occasional sub atomic particle with a temperature close enough to zero that it makes no difference, and everything that had happened up to that point was meaningless. You may be able to live with that belief but I can't.
I think what is important is that no mater what we believe we must all be free to believe in and follow our own paths, and my issue with people like Ham is that they want me to follow their path, even if I don't want to.
"Beware those who would deny you Knowledge, For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."
(Score: 1) by turgid on Tuesday July 22 2014, @09:29PM
I think what is important is that no mater what we believe we must all be free to believe in and follow our own paths, and my issue with people like Ham is that they want me to follow their path, even if I don't want to.
Amen.
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 3, Insightful) by strattitarius on Tuesday July 22 2014, @08:42PM
Ask yourself if you, as a christian, would approve of beating children until the behave correctly? Whips, chains, it's all good. What if the definition of behave correctly was completely up to the parents and could include getting nothing but 100% on school work, getting into Harvard, and being the All-State running back? Ask if the support the death penalty? Ask if they believe slavery is a good thing?
Hopefully the answers are no, and then ask why god cannot exhibit the same amount of compassion and love as a simple human being? Really? ETERNAL suffering if you live a good life but don't WORSHIP the son? Humans are not that conceited. Humans are not that vengeful. Humans are not that evil. Well, at least not those that refute religion.
I do not believe in a god. I believe that we have been lucky enough to be part of a conglomeration of atoms that has allowed amazing interactions and the ability to give meaning to life. The most amazing thing about having no god, is that we can take credit for all of that which humans have created. HUMANS have made meaning out of a void. We are god.
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(Score: 2) by dry on Thursday July 24 2014, @04:02AM
ETERNAL suffering if you live a good life but don't WORSHIP the son?
For some Christians it's even worse. You could live your whole life doing good and accepting Christ into your heart but if on your deathbed you have second thoughts, to hell you go. And the opposite, the worst person ever, responsible for so much suffering that it almost makes evil believable, but if they accept Christ on their deathbed, to heaven they go.
Me, I'd rather go to hell then associate with such an evil God. The Christian heaven seems pretty boring as well, no plants or nature of any kind, little well sex, just gold, jewels and the glory of God.
(Score: 2) by PinkyGigglebrain on Monday July 28 2014, @08:04AM
I'm not Christian. I was exposed to that faith when I was growing up but as you point out there are many reasons to turn from Christianity if you actually bother to think about what is written in the Bible. The hypocrisy and inconsistencies where more than enough for me to look for a path of my own. I think it is one of the reasons why there has been so much effort put into undermining education programs that teach objective critical thinking, like the sciences, because if everyone actually started to think for themselves it would cause real trouble for those who run the religions.
I have to laugh that first you say "I do not believe in god." but then your last line says "We are god.", showing you do believe in a God. I'm not trying to troll you or belittle what your saying but I have found that even "Atheists" have faith, not in some grey bearded dude in robes sitting in the clouds, but in Life and the Universe, and all its wonders.
We are the consciousness of the Universe seeking to understand itself. Does that make Humanity god? Does that make all life, everywhere, God?
"Beware those who would deny you Knowledge, For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday July 23 2014, @10:01PM
Right of wrong, say what you will, but only speak if you have the courage to put your name on it.
Says PinkyGigglebrain...
(Score: 2) by PinkyGigglebrain on Monday July 28 2014, @08:08AM
whoops. Large fingers and small keyboard keys do make for some interesting comments.
Good catch, I may have to start sending my comments to you for proof reading before posting them. :)
"Beware those who would deny you Knowledge, For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."
(Score: 2) by PinkyGigglebrain on Monday July 28 2014, @08:11AM
And I totally missed your jab until after I hit submit.
Touche
"Beware those who would deny you Knowledge, For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."