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Microsoft Announces PowerShell 7
Microsoft has just announced PowerShell 7, a new major release that comes only a few days after the company originally introduced version 6.2
And while it naturally makes more sense for the company to roll out PowerShell 6.3 rather than a whole new version 7.0, the company explains in a blog post that it's all as part of the efforts to align the versions of all platforms.
Steve Lee, Principal Software Engineer Manager, PowerShell, explains that Microsoft noticed a growing usage pattern on Linux, but not on Windows.
"Windows usage has not been growing as significantly, surprising given that PowerShell was popularized on the Windows platform," Lee explains. [...] The next version of PowerShell will thus be available on Windows, Linux, and macOS, and the company explains it'll be available with LTS (Long Term Servicing) and non-LTS plans.
Also at ZDNet.
Previously: MS Releases Powershell SDC - to Manage Config for.... Linux
Powershell for Linux
Your wget (and curl) is Broken and Should DIE, GitHubbers Tell Microsoft
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 08 2019, @11:53PM (2 children)
Dooom! We are all Doomed! Some are even Domed!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 09 2019, @12:57PM (1 child)
Powershell powers hell.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Tuesday April 09 2019, @02:42PM
You could have simply said Powershell Powers Windows. Everyone still would have understood what you mint.
When trying to solve a problem don't ask who suffers from the problem, ask who profits from the problem.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by ilsa on Tuesday April 09 2019, @12:03AM (12 children)
*nix already provides shell scripting which does the vast majority of glue work you could need. For the fancier stuff, there's tons of other tools ranging from awk to python.
What benefit could Microsofts "It's a trap" PowerShell provide?
I suppose its of interest to those that feel Microsoft doesn't siphon enough telemetry data already.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 09 2019, @12:12AM
Mass fdisk of windows boxes with ease, why else?
(Score: 2, Interesting) by RandomFactor on Tuesday April 09 2019, @01:24AM (6 children)
A consistently implemented object oriented scripting language that works across all MS products and doesn't suck to work with. Now they're going to make it work across other platforms? Good stuff.
.
Microsoft is not to be trusted of course, but this is a scripting language. Going to be interesting to see how they leverage it in their quest for endless gatekeeping revenue.
В «Правде» нет известий, в «Известиях» нет правды
(Score: 4, Touché) by c0lo on Tuesday April 09 2019, @07:29AM
Yes, please, anytime.
No, thanks, not PowerShell, it fails the "does not suck" condition.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday April 09 2019, @10:23AM (2 children)
On the "does not suck" line (and still work across platforms), I stumbled a while ago on something that may "suck less": IronPython [ironpython.net]. I don't know by direct experience how well it does, but the guy that mentioned it has my respects as a softeng.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Tuesday April 09 2019, @12:26PM (1 child)
What is the advantage of IronPython over Python? Its web page [ironpython.net] seems to say it's compatible.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday April 09 2019, @12:44PM
Syntax of Python over .NET Framework or Core.
Which means a tad more sane syntax for an OO language in an interpreted script, with the power of accessing the OS of .NET.
In my books, makes a less sucking admin scripting language than PowerShell, a language that works on Win, OSX and Linux.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by gawdonblue on Tuesday April 09 2019, @10:26PM (1 child)
I'm calling bullshit on an "object oriented scripting language that works". OO is a paradigm that works, barely, in GUIs but sucks for nearly every other application. Unfortunately most people learn it these days as the only way to program, and I have had to deal with idiot contractors trying to implement "proper OO" in things as unsuitable as PL/SQL (hint why not to do this is in its name) and shell scripting.
Why do some people want to take something simple & reliable and fuck it over with stupid layers of abstraction and complex dependencies?
Fucking Poetterings everywhere.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 11 2019, @09:50PM
Devuan's tor daemon requires systemd now, at least on ceres/ascii. Figured this is as good a place to warn as any.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by canopic jug on Tuesday April 09 2019, @08:22AM
What benefit could Microsofts "It's a trap" PowerShell provide?
The benefits are to M$, not to system administrators or others. There have been ports of zsh and tcsh for around 20 years if not longer. So if it were just a matter of having a scripting language to help with system administration, the obvious choice would be to pull one of those off the shelf and roll it out in the Next Version. But since M$ wouldn't be able to futher its lock-in with either one, both will be ignored. The hard part for M$ is that it is well known that shell scripting is powerful, useful, and even essential to running large numbers of servers which is the market they are clutching at now. The reason that is the hard part, is that M$ has spend many years and lots of money disparraging the shell and now has to somehow turn that around without losing even more credibility among its fan base. The way to do that is to reinvent a square wheel^W^Wtheir own shell.
Imagine, if standard M$ resellers and Windows monkeys were familiar with zsh or tcsh, then they would not only be immune to the marketeering M$ has been carrying out against the shell, they would also make them less likely to not suggest or even fight an upgrade to FreeBSD or GNU/Linux, since key familiar tools would be there already.
Money is not free speech. Elections should not be auctions.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 09 2019, @02:18PM
Why not ? Don't you geeks always claim that Choice is Good(tm) ?
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Tuesday April 09 2019, @02:45PM
I cannot believe nobody has answered this one yet.
The biggest benefit, I can see, is that PowerShell on Linux will require other things conceived in the damnable fires of Redmond. Thus PowerShell on Linux will promote the spread of systemd.
Can nobody else see that?
When trying to solve a problem don't ask who suffers from the problem, ask who profits from the problem.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by DeVilla on Friday April 12 2019, @04:07PM
My guess, to allow Linux admins who already automate the hell out of their Linux/Unix systems can more reliably automate the remote administration of windows systems via WMI in a heterogeneous environment.
Just guessing though. Windows was always the odd one out in any server room I saw it in. If it were up to me, I would leave it that way as gentle encouragement to get it out of the server room.
(Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 09 2019, @12:20AM (1 child)
I'm sure Microsoft will be trying to force it down the throats of Powershell 7 users soon enough.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Tuesday April 09 2019, @06:31PM
"Running a script means you agree with Powershell starting a 20GB download of Powershell 10, followed by a full installation of Powershell telemetry. Don't worry, your script result will be preserved (uploaded to our servers) and displayed after the 17th reboot of your New Enhanced Powershell 10"
(Score: 5, Interesting) by NotSanguine on Tuesday April 09 2019, @12:31AM (9 children)
From TFS:
It's not surprising at all. Many folks, especially those in corporate IT are moving many of their servers to Linux. At the same time, many of those folks have libraries of Powershell scripts they use for management, monitoring and maintenence.
That they should want to use those tools on their Linux boxes, rather than re-implementing their tools in sh, perl, python or other, is perfectly reasonable.
Years ago, I went the other way myself. I had tools written in sh, perl, etc. and was incredibly happy when I could use those tools *unmodified* on Windows boxes via Cygwin [cygwin.com].
Surprising? Not even a little bit.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday April 09 2019, @01:29AM (8 children)
> Powershell on Linux
No. Not only no, but fuck no. Microsoft is a creeping cancer, a gelatinous mass whose only instinct is to consume and turn everything it touches into shit.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 3, Insightful) by NotSanguine on Tuesday April 09 2019, @01:42AM (6 children)
I wouldn't do so. But that's because my tools are all written in languages supported by Linux. Others, especially corporate IT groups that have been using Microsoft for 30 years, likely have tools written in Powershell, given that it's head and shoulders above anything else provided by Microsoft for scripting.
Should we discourage such people from moving at least some of their infrastructure to Linux by forcing them to re-implement all their tools in a new language?
Even if you despise Microsoft, it should be obvious that Powershell on Linux is a win for Linux, not Microsoft. If their corporate customers weren't *demanding* this, Microsoft would never allow their tools to run on Linux -- that jeopardizes their OS sales.
What's more, as folks who have only done Windows see how much better things are over on the other side, Microsoft will suffer more, not less.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday April 09 2019, @01:55AM (2 children)
That idea surely must have occurred to the skinwalkers at MS, and they took the gamble anyway. They're evil, not stupid...so unless their egos are getting in the way and they're truly blind, I can only assume they have good reason to believe things won't turn out that way.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 09 2019, @03:21AM
Having worked for Microsoft for several years back at the turn of the century, I can tell you that most MS people are not evil. Greedy, definitely. Shortsighted, most certainly. And there are those who are sociopathic, many of whom have risen through the ranks for just that reason.
In this case, customers really didn't give them much choice. Just as it's been in their cloud business. Do you really think they'd provide Linux as part of their PaaS offerings if they could helpit? Paying customers, especially the big ones, can get vendors like Microsoft to do all sorts of things that hurts their long-term, because they're focused on meeting their quarterly sales goals. This distorts decision making and often causes folks to act stupidly.
I suggest applying Hanlon's Razor [wikipedia.org] more liberally.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 10 2019, @07:02PM
they don't have a choice, obviously.
(Score: 2) by canopic jug on Tuesday April 09 2019, @08:36AM (2 children)
Should we discourage such people from moving at least some of their infrastructure to Linux by forcing them to re-implement all their tools in a new language?
Except it does not work that way. Remember Mono? The same argument was trotted out for that turd. In a matter of years it was shown that it pulled the other way, causing a small but definite move away from GNU/Linux to Windows development.
Powershell is not even half-baked. It's just there to keep them from running real tools and to burn through staff time and managment budgets. Letting people use it on GNULinux, FreeBSD, or whatever else will only leave a bad experience with the new systems, slow down the migration, and cause the managers to give up and move back to the perceived comfort of the familar.
Money is not free speech. Elections should not be auctions.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by NotSanguine on Tuesday April 09 2019, @10:06AM (1 child)
I hear what you're saying about Mono, and it's a valid point. Those who wanted to write code that could run under .Net on Windows and Mono on *nix likely would get frustrated with the issues around Mono and go (back) to Windows.
However, Powershell is not a language or a development framework. It's a tool that's less functional than bash and isn't suited to real software development. That's not surprising, as it was introduced and developed as a scripting tool to manage Windows systems, not as a programming language.
Powershell is actually pretty "mature" (in terms of age) on the Windows platform (it was first released in 2006). It was little used until Microsoft started adding libraries of cmdlets (functions that performed specific tasks) for managing Windows servers and Active Directory.
Usage did grow in the Windows space, as there were damn few decent scriptable automation tools for AD and Windows system management.
The functionality of Powershell hasn't progressed much further than that, and, given the vastly better tools for management and administration provided by *nix environments, the only folks who would be interested in using it on *nix are folks who come from the Windows space and have libraries of Powershell tools they wish to use across all their systems. Which, in a Windows-centric environment makes a lot of sense.
As such, it seems really unlikely that someone just coming to Linux or BSD would take the time to download, build and install Powershell to use over the tools already provided on the platform, unless they already had experience (and tools already written in Powershell) with Powershell.
And if anyone did any searching around for *nix scripting tools, Powershell probably would be relegated to the seventh or eighth page of search results, if not even deeper.
As such, I think your analogy to Mono is flawed. But it doesn't much matter what you or I think, and we'll see what happens (or doesn't) with Powershell on *nix. Perhaps you're right.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 11 2019, @11:24AM
PowerShell has a snap package.
sudo snap install powershell
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Tuesday April 09 2019, @02:47PM
You could simply call it The Microsoft Touch to use less harsh language.
It's sort of like The Midas Touch but for Microsoft.
When trying to solve a problem don't ask who suffers from the problem, ask who profits from the problem.
(Score: 2, Funny) by fustakrakich on Tuesday April 09 2019, @01:11AM (2 children)
They could have gone with 6.22, now with DriveSpace!
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 1) by RandomFactor on Tuesday April 09 2019, @01:27AM
What was that game that DR DOS 7.0 had? Netwars? Something like that.
В «Правде» нет известий, в «Известиях» нет правды
(Score: 2) by Dr Spin on Tuesday April 09 2019, @06:34AM
6.22, now with DriveSpace!
Drivespace and instant removal of USB sticks - at last, genuine proof that "data wants to be free"!
Warning: Opening your mouth may invalidate your brain!
(Score: 3, Interesting) by looorg on Tuesday April 09 2019, @01:38AM (16 children)
So nobody has anything positive to say about Powershell? Not even anonymous so not to ruin all your tux-cred with the neckbeards?
I have not tried it yet -- I have not even checked the syntax, but I will admit that it is mildly interesting. It comes with Windows that the corporate overlords supply computers for at work, I don't have to download anything else and if it can easily be used to cobble together some scripts to do boring mundane tasks in the windows environment it might be ok.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 09 2019, @03:18AM (6 children)
So nobody has anything positive to say about Powershell? Not even anonymous so not to ruin all your tux-cred with the chestbeards?
There, FTFY.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by evk on Tuesday April 09 2019, @08:36AM (5 children)
Powershell has this nice idea of shuffling around objects instead of undefined data streams. So if you pipe a directory listing to something, you don't get a bunch of text that you can parse. You get objects with properties. This isn't a bad idea. For some reason they managed to mess up lots of small details which makes it surprisingly compex to to do things you'd expected to be easy.
In bash I can usually write a one liner without referencing any documentation. For powershell I have a library of one liners for most things I wan't to do. Writing them from memory doesn't work for me.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by choose another one on Tuesday April 09 2019, @11:45AM (3 children)
This. The idea that you have to turn everything into text and then parse it back out is actually the bad idea, and the source of so many bugs and exploits, but it is so ingrained in unix that we just take the breakage as being inevitable.
I (very)vaguely recall years ago (probably before powershell) something similar was talked about for Guile (the GNU scripting lang) - I haven't kept up with Guile so don't know where it went or if that got implemented. There are GPL problems with it though (see last bit of https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#MereAggregation [gnu.org] ) - basically the whole pipeline becomes one program for GPL purposes, maybe (court will decide...).
That is pretty much Microsoft's MO.
Thing is, PowerShell's big advantage is also it's biggest drawback here - all the functions all the objects all the properties, they are the .Net ones. IF(F) you are a .Net/C# dev (or maybe VB) then PowerShell is just a bit of slightly twisted syntax to learn, then everything you usually do in C# you can do in a script, and that actually is awesome. On the other hand if you are NOT a .Net/C# dev then you have to learn not just powershell, but the entire .Net framework, for a one line script.
PowerShell is at least vaguely readable once you've written it. I used to be able to write Perl from memory, but I still had/have a library of one liners for Perl. Now, I dare not run them because I know not what they do...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 09 2019, @02:52PM (2 children)
I call BS on this.
I am definitely not a .net or MS gal - Yes, Debian stole my heart of geek. I do have to admin Windows boxes. I do have to patch and maintain and support MS products inc Exchange SharePoint and Skype. You don't need to know .net to use PowerShell. It is useful to know how .net works and what's in it. For most things use the functions available and look up what you need when you need it.
I've coded in perl bash py CSH Java (yes yes) DOS batch and frankly after using PowerShell for several years I miss it when using Ubuntu or redhat. No, the Linux version of powershell is not up to scratch. Nice try though.
If not PowerShell then ... What? C#? Ask Microsoft to install python by default on all Windows machines? Install perl everywhere? Do it all in .NET?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 10 2019, @07:06PM (1 child)
"I do have to admin Windows boxes. I do have to patch and maintain and support MS products inc Exchange SharePoint and Skype."
no. you don't "have to" do anything. have some self respect instead.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 11 2019, @11:32AM
Sure.I can starve.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 09 2019, @06:36PM
Great summation.
I'm not a Programmer with a capital P, but I do lots of shell scripting as part of system administration tasks; I've worn both linux and windows hats for the last 15 years and I've done extensive scripting on both OSes. Powershell is to me more of a programming language than a shell - it makes what I'm used to being a simple set of operations, turns them into a load of overly verbose commands, and then you have to either spend half your life piping into `get-member` or `select-object -property *` to see if the info you want was actually there or not, or if you maybe need to go and grab from some other object or convert that particular int into a datetime; bash and friends show you everything and provide you with really awesome tools for throwing away or converting stuff you don't want.
I'm working in a windows team currently but we've been bringing in a lot of linux kit. Lots of the people were agog at having someone who could do "linux scripting", thinking it was some sort of prodigal thing; after showing them a few basic utils and some loops in bash they all took to it remarkably easy, because it's so much more WYSIWYG in nature than futzing around in powershell. bash and other *sh's make the transition from "remember this command" to "put this list of commands in a file and run it" to "wrap those commands in some logic and variables" really simple and really natural in a way I've just never experienced with powershell. Ultimately I don't think I've got an object-oriented brain because despite writing powershell stuff for over ten years now it still doesn't come naturally to me whereas bash scripts just trip off the fingers.
Conversely, powershell allows you to do certain far more powerful things than you could realistically do in bash (writing REST interface stuff in JSON being a trendy example... but it was whilst porting a powershell script I wrote to linux that I discovered the python requests library which made the script even more bone-headedly simple than powershell) but the barrier to entry is much higher than I feel it is for bash. That said there's a whole bunch of windows utilities with very deep and very useful powershell interfaces that even python on windows can't hold a candle to, but those feel more of a necessary evil to me than a boon of powershell itself.
My two cents.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by NotSanguine on Tuesday April 09 2019, @03:28AM (4 children)
I've used powershell.
It's okay. It really doesn't work as well or provide as much power or flexibility as other scripting languages, but for managing Windows and AD, it provides a modicum of utility.
Please understand that powershell isn't like perl or python. It really has no utility outside sys admin and management functions.
A good way to think about it is that it's like an inferior sh/bash/csh/etc. with some libraries that make interfacing with proprietary Windows stuff easier.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 2) by rob_on_earth on Tuesday April 09 2019, @07:48AM (3 children)
This this this!
Powershell is not bash.
I hated Powershell for so long, because to do things the *nix way is painful(but never impossible). Once I found I had sometime to properly learn Powershell for managing specific Windows/Microsoft processes/systems with very specific goals it just works.
As with the Apple eco system, the moment you want to go off-road the wheels fall off.
As with the last big release of Powershell the biggest hurdle will be getting the majority of people to upgrade to make it relevant. I know of many systems that "just work" with old versions of Powershell and no on knows how they work or how to upgrade them.
With the WSL I try my best to avoid Powershell, but there a few things it does very well in its own domain.
(Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Tuesday April 09 2019, @12:06PM (2 children)
Not the World Surf League, I'm sure, which is what Google tells me for WSL.
(Score: 2) by rob_on_earth on Tuesday April 09 2019, @02:06PM (1 child)
it's the 10th result on the second page.
and, yes, I blame Microsoft
(Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Wednesday April 10 2019, @03:19PM
Windows Subsystem for Linux? Probably, yes.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 09 2019, @05:28AM
I used it once, but don't remember what for. Evidently, it was a forgettable experience.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 09 2019, @08:14AM
I use power shell every day. I am happy it exists on windows. Far better than VB or c# or perl. It is standard on all windows machines. It works. It does take some getting used to.
I am a Linux guy working in a windows centric shop. Without power shell this job would suck a lot more.
Appreciate it for what it is.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by TheFool on Tuesday April 09 2019, @01:14PM
As a general-purpose shell, I think I'd give it a pass. But it's well suited to performing Windows-related tasks. I use it quite a bit when I'm working on things there.
Need to write some tests for your .NET or COM+ application (yes, some of us still write these)? Just suck the interface into your script, and now you can poke at it to your heart's content. Want to poke at a driver and look at the WMI data coming out the side? Just a bit of script. Want to spin up a test VM, then execute all those commands on the guest? Sure, just a few more lines of script.
And there's also the sysadmin side of it, because MS likes to shuffle the GUI around a lot but the commands will stay the same. But I tend not to use it much for that.
So yeah, good if you're running pretty close to "Windows" and not doing generic things like manipulating files. Definitely worth learning in that case. And it's certainly better than cmd.exe, which is your other out-of-the-box option.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Tuesday April 09 2019, @02:49PM
I have to run Windows, at work. But I've never personally owned a box running Windows. And I am not responsible for maintaining Windows at work. The staff who do that seem to do a good job on a very large fleet.
So what positive thing can I say about Powershell?
This: I don't have to use it!
When trying to solve a problem don't ask who suffers from the problem, ask who profits from the problem.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Nerdfest on Tuesday April 09 2019, @04:20AM (1 child)
Anyone else wondering how they noticed those "usage patterns"?
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 09 2019, @03:03PM
You don't think
No
You don't believe
No
Never
It couldn't be
Could they
Would they
Actually
Really
Just scrape data
Right from our machine
Without us knowing
No
No no no
Microsoft would never do that
Microsoft is your friend
Windows is the happiest place on earth
You know this because Microsoft says so
Disagreeing with Microsoft is treason
Your clearance is now Blue
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 17 2019, @07:53AM
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