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Submitted via IRC for AndyTheAbsurd
Today, we're announcing that the next release after .NET Core 3.0 will be .NET 5. This will be the next big release in the .NET family.
There will be just one .NET going forward, and you will be able to use it to target Windows, Linux, macOS, iOS, Android, tvOS, watchOS and WebAssembly and more.
We will introduce new .NET APIs, runtime capabilities and language features as part of .NET 5.
[...] We intend to release .NET 5 in November 2020, with the first preview available in the first half of 2020. It will be supported with future updates to Visual Studio 2019, Visual Studio for Mac and Visual Studio Code
Source: https://devblogs.microsoft.com/dotnet/introducing-net-5/
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the Sky", stardate 5476.4.
(Score: 2) by ikanreed on Tuesday May 07 2019, @03:01AM (8 children)
My sincere defense of a pretty good product by an awful company(not that Oracle isn't also awful):
1. .NET has UI paradigms that are a hundred times better. MVVM is a really great way to design communication between GUI and a data model that backs it, compared to .
2. Early Java had some language decisions that were unwise: no delegates, no implicit boxing/unboxing, always doing reference types even when it's not appropriate
3. Visual Studio, even if hell for devops folks, is a really great tool and I like using it. It's not that it's features aren't available elsewhere, but the way Eclipse achieves basics like autocompletion through bloated plugins feels worse to me
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @03:38AM (3 children)
I maintain both C# and Java applications. I like C# as a language better. Java recently added some LINQ stuff, but like everything else in Java, it's klunky as hell. Java's rough equivalent of delegates is the venerable anonymous inner class. It's a ton more syntax but achieves roughly (but not quite) the same thing. Also sensible overloads of operator[] make for good readability in C#. First-class properties are better than JavaBeanGetSetMethods.
Otoh, what I like about Java is the FOSS ecosystem that C# seems to lack. So C# wins hands-down as a language, but Java is where the ecosystem is at.
Ditto about Visual Studio vs. Eclipse. I never liked Eclipse, so I use Netbeans. Intellisense is just way more responsive than Netbeans complation. Everything about Java is bloated.
Also, I absolutely hate the way Microsoft's Dot Net documentation is organized. Javadoc is easier to navigate imho.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by ikanreed on Tuesday May 07 2019, @03:46AM (1 child)
On the documentation point, when do you ever actually browse it anymore, it's always a google search for "ClassName"
(Score: 2) by bobthecimmerian on Tuesday May 07 2019, @10:52AM
I can't speak for Netbeans or IntelliJ, but in Eclipse if you mouseover a fragment of Java code the javadoc pops right up. It's really handy.
(Score: 3, Informative) by bobthecimmerian on Tuesday May 07 2019, @10:56AM
Java 8 has lambdas, which can usually replace the anonymous inner class in a way that saves a boatload of boilerplate syntax. But you're still left with a painfully verbose language. The best thing about the Java Virtual Machine is Groovy/Kotlin/Scala/Ceylon/Clojure/Eta/almost-anything-but-Java.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @05:46AM (1 child)
Oracle's sue-happy nature has scared away bigger supporters of Java.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Tuesday May 07 2019, @01:51PM
Yep, I can see Oracle bringing down Java. It won't fall overnight, but Oracle would be uniquely the one who could bring it down.
What doesn't kill me makes me weaker for next time.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Tuesday May 07 2019, @02:04PM
I do not disagree at all. .NET and C# have the hindsight to fix many warts in Java. That is a benefit of being a second system -- but from a different vendor without concerns about the second system effect. I admired C# when I first read the language spec soon after it was introduced.
Java was conceived in the early 1990s when resources were much more limited and PCs were thousands of 1990ish dollars. So I can forgive some of the design decisions. As a common lisp fan of the time, I was excited when I first heard rumors about Java on Usenet. Even before it had a name.
Any system / language has warts. And Java has plenty. Definitely its fair share. And maybe even a few extra. Developers in all kinds of systems tend to overlook the warts because it is possible to get all kinds of useful, gainful, productive economic work done.
On point 3, I'll respectfully disagree and take Eclipse / other java IDEs over Visual Studio any day. And they run on non-Windows. Even on my Pixelbook and other Chromebooks.
I will point out one thing I think Java (the language spec and JVM runtime spec) have done better than any other system. Religious devotion to backward compatibility. A newer compiler accepts ancient source code not using modern idioms, and runtime system can run way old compiled binary JVM bytecode. Over the two plus decades of Java's life this has now proven to be one of the best decisions the early adherence to compatibility the designers could have made. I know it must have been tempting to just up and change the language or runtime in non-backward compatible ways. See: Python. This compatibility has been one of the big assets for Java in the corporate and enterprise world.
Given Oracle's behavior, I could possibly see myself warming up to the C# / .NET world. Not today. But it is not inconceivable. Especially given other announcements today of Microsoft's new GPL'd Linux Kernel in WSL 2, and new Terminal in Windows. Then the question becomes: which is less evil: Microsoft or Oracle?
What doesn't kill me makes me weaker for next time.
(Score: 3, Informative) by DannyB on Tuesday May 07 2019, @02:09PM
One more thing: .NET has a LOT of work, that is largely invisible, to catch up to the JVM runtime.
Multiple platforms, but with the C1 / C2 JIT compilers. GC for terabytes of heap and hundreds of cores. Open J9. GraalVM.
The research on these and other things is because Sun wisely chose to GPL the JDK, enabling research.
These features I'm talking about are hidden deep below the superficial surface of .NET / JVM and the languages Java and C#. But these count in a BIG way. .NET / C# may not be a real choice for seriously big workloads. When will .NET run on mainframes? (not that I want to, but big banks seem to) Just sayin'
What doesn't kill me makes me weaker for next time.