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from the how-many-dead-children-will-it-take dept.
The Independent reports on the secret report that aids Israeli public relations:
"Israeli spokesmen have their work cut out explaining how they have killed more than 1,000 Palestinians in Gaza, most of them civilians, compared with just three civilians killed in Israel by Hamas rocket and mortar fire. But on television and radio and in newspapers, Israeli government spokesmen such as Mark Regev appear slicker and less aggressive than their predecessors, who were often visibly indifferent to how many Palestinians were killed."
The booklet is "...highly illuminating about the gap between what Israeli officials and politicians really believe, and what they say, the latter shaped in minute detail by polling to determine what Americans want to hear."
"The booklet is full of meaty advice about how they should shape their answers for different audiences. For example, the study says that "Americans agree that Israel 'has a right to defensible borders'. But it does you no good to define exactly what those borders should be. Avoid talking about borders in terms of pre- or post-1967, because it only serves to remind Americans of Israel's military history. Particularly on the left this does you harm. For instance, support for Israel's right to defensible borders drops from a heady 89 per cent to under 60 per cent when you talk about it in terms of 1967."
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday July 31 2014, @09:18PM
Yeah, every now and then I like to burn off some of my almost always max karma by getting a whole bunch of -1 Disagree mods. I absolutely never troll and if someone thinks something I said was flamebait then they need to take a good, hard look at why they're incapable of thinking someone disagreeing with them is anything but an attempt to piss people off.
We've got an unbelievably intolerant crowd here over some subjects.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Thursday July 31 2014, @10:44PM
I'm pretty sure that many of your statements would make all but the staunchest West Bank settlers take a step back if you said them IRL.
Unless you're taking a page from the recent "agree violently" post (where's that SN link? oh well, Poe's Law covers you anyway), you may want to consider that we wouldn't be still arguing 47 years after 1967 if your single-sided, AIPAC-approved posts were 100% correct.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday July 31 2014, @11:02PM
Bob, I'm here thinking you're some sort of liberal type and mostly talk to liberals, because that very much screams echo-chamber belief to me. Truth of the matter is, most people in the US support Israel. Now I could very well be wrong about you but I am not wrong about where the nation stands. Check a poll. Any poll. You need exposure to intellectual diversity, my friend. Only hearing the same thing over and over does zero good for your critical thinking skills.
Why do I think like I do? Because I want to see an end to a bloody, pointless war. Because I realize that the only way to end a war for good is for one side to crush the other into submission. That is simply the nature of war. Both sides have to want to stop fighting permanently or it will not happen. Israel is already there but the only thing that will convince the Palestinians to join them is being shown they're fighting an overwhelming force they cannot hope to win against and exactly what it will cost them to continue trying.
Yes, it will cost lives in the short term but over even a decade a decisive victory by Israel would end up saving lives.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by evilviper on Thursday July 31 2014, @11:23PM
Which is why Germany was so peaceful and docile after the end of The Great War...
Hydrogen cyanide is a delicious and necessary part of the human diet.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday July 31 2014, @11:31PM
Exactly. Not a crushing enough defeat. Note how civil they've been since the mid-40s. Ditto Japan.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by evilviper on Friday August 01 2014, @12:17AM
Pure circular logic. Completely historically inaccurate.
Hydrogen cyanide is a delicious and necessary part of the human diet.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 01 2014, @02:54AM
It is that kind of utter obliviousness that convinced me the guy is operating on cognitive dissonance. The lies he has to tell to rationalize his position are just so blatantly obvious that either he's trolling (which I am sure he isn't because everything he's said on soylent has been consistently and vigorously far right) or he's just totally disconnected from anything that could cause the slightest bit of self-doubt. Nobody gets that confident in their cruelty on their own, something traumatic happened to the guy and what we are seeing is his coping mechanism laid bare.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Thursday July 31 2014, @11:50PM
It's interesting that you would qualify my statements of "echo-chamber belief" after you posted about telling the Palestinians that they can pack and just move to neighboring countries since they lost. I merely pointed out that your posts go a bit further than most feel comfortable with, considering the long documented history of forced populations displacements, and that little paper people signed in Switzerland all those decades ago.
There is evidence that the unquestioning support of the US population for Israel is starting to change, as the internet allows people to reach a more diverse view than the media previously presented. The majority support in the US is not under threat, but the rest of the world is very different. one of top articles in quite a few European papers today? "Gaza: US resupplies Israel mortars and tanks" (as part of a long-term weapons stock sharing agreement). Why do you think that's news? Not because the US is eing applauded for helping crush evil terrorists...
Crushing the other into submission has already happened. Why do you think Hamas exists? The simplified version for the fairly recent creation of Hamas, is that the PLO angered some of its constituents by collaborating too much with Israel, in return for no peace progress and more settlements. So the very compliant and subdued Abbas lost control. Not just of the extremists, but the people fairly (per international observers) elected a Hamas that seemed less corrupt. We all instantly thanked them for voting, by making Gaza the biggest prison in the world.
I would recommend that you avoid the word "liberal". It's just too often used as a shortcut by the US right to dismiss anyone that they believe to be further left than they are, which considering recent US politics is at least 90% of the world.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday August 01 2014, @12:50AM
That bit of paper from Switzerland that the Palestinians ignore every single time they attack civilians has no part in this war. If one side is violating it at will, the other holding to it is the height of idiocy. We, for example, most assuredly did not sign it because it was The Right Thing To Do, we signed it in the hopes that our own soldiers would be treated with respect in return for treating those of others with respect. Quid pro quo. Personally, I think that bit of paper has caused more atrocities than it will ever prevent by prolonging wars with adversaries who pay it no heed whatsoever.
As for popular opinion, I expect Never Again will eventually become Here We Go Again, because as you said, people are bloody stupid. But this is not yet that time. As for what Europe thinks? What's a polite way of saying "fuck them and the horse they rode in on"? Europe has been at peace for far too long and have become cowards. They think the world will act civilized if they simply want it to badly enough.
That Hamas exists is obvious proof that they were not brought to submission. Witness the lack of submission in the people with every rocket and every bomb vest. The people are the ones whose will to fight must be crushed or this will absolutely never end.
I probably should avoid that word. It doesn't mean what the people claiming it embody. Historically, liberals have been about liberty in all aspects of life. Now they are for oppression of anything that does not meet their vision of how the world should be. I'll simply call them The Left then. The rest of the world I could care less about. The only opinion that matters is the one that I hold about actions taken in my name. When others have to bear the responsibility for my actions, then and only then can they have a say in my opinions.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by GreatAuntAnesthesia on Friday August 01 2014, @10:56AM
> Europe has been at peace for far too long and have become cowards.
Shit, sorry about that MB. I'll go shoot some Portuguese immediately, will that help satisfy your bloodlust?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 01 2014, @12:32AM
> the only thing that will convince the Palestinians to join them is being shown they're fighting an
> overwhelming force they cannot hope to win against and exactly what it will cost them to continue trying.
At least you are consistent. Referring to yourself as "daddy" and then spouting paternalisms like that which have no basis in reality. Humans as a group simply do not roll over. People will fight to the death and their children will too in order to avenge their parents. Your belief that pacification works is pure fantasy.